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#1959084 07/28/22 09:12 AM
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This is a strange scenario. Start with Lamar and his mother are the agents.

Then go to the Ravens who built their team around Lamar. He is their guy. He is the team leader. He won an MVP. He is unique as a player.

He is 41-17 as a starter. We have seen first hand what he can do. Because of what he can do as a runner and passer he scares defenses. He doesn't have a contract. DW, Murray, Allen have contracts.

He is another stat:

Lamar Jackson has a passer rating of 68.3 with 900 yards, 3 touchdowns and 5 interceptions in 4 games in the playoffs in his career. He is 1-3 in the post season with a 55.9 completion percentage.

The Ravens are in a spot and so is Lamar. He will get a giant contract at some point.

Lamar Jackson signed a 4 year, $9,471,648 contract with the Baltimore Ravens, including a $4,968,471 signing bonus, $7,575,059 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $2,367,912. In 2022, Jackson will earn a base salary of $23,016,000, while carrying a cap hit of $23,016,000 and a dead cap value of $23,016,000.

2023 he is UFA.

The Ravens almost have to pay him. They would have to remake their team and find a quarterback. Yet they may have doubts. Can Lamar win in the post season? In the playoffs Lamar's weakness has been exploited. Teams shut down the middle and force him to throw outside the numbers.

In the end IMO the Ravens pay him fair market value.

bonefish #1959086 07/28/22 09:25 AM
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I think Lamar gets unfairly criticized. I also think the Ravens desperately have wanted--and still want--to sign him to a lucrative contract. I think that Lamar will become the highest paid player in the league. It's how the market works.

bonefish #1959087 07/28/22 09:30 AM
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It will be interesting to see. I'm very much in the camp that feels Lamar is a freak athlete but not a QB that you can give a DW style contract to... Once he's nicked up or hurt, his arm talent isn't elite. As a dual threat QB he's electric ... I just see the dual part being gone within 2 or 3 years..


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bonefish #1959089 07/28/22 09:39 AM
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The one thing I really don't understand is the "would have to remake the team for another QB" narrative.

Their Oline is good (has a hole or 2 but most do), and their run game is pretty strong. Their D is top-notch, assuming everyone that was injured last year comes back at or near 100%. They have an elite TE, but their WRs probably could use an upgrade.

What about their offense would they have to remake for another type of QB? Better receiving options would probably shoot to the top of the list, but by spending a little money and maybe getting lucky with the talent coming out in the draft, this is far from impossible to do in 1 offseason.


Lamar's backup looked pretty good down the stretch last year.

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bonefish #1959091 07/28/22 09:41 AM
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so before anybody starts, i hope lamar gets destroyed and becomes a backup for the foreseeable future. i'm still a fan individually, but i still hate the ravens.

so, i agree with verse about the unfair criticisms. if the nfl had a redraft of 2018, Allen and Lamar are the top 2 QBs and top 5 picks. Baker, Darnold, and Rosen might not even make it out the 2nd or 3rd round. i get that everybody is talking about the stats in the playoffs, but that's still 4 playoff games, 2 division titles, and an MVP.

if baker did any of that, every fan on this board would be saying to pay him like watson or kyler murray.

yea, the passing game is struggling, but the OC decided to build an entire offense around lamar's ability to run, instead of it being a threat to run, and that's two different strategies. even with that, lamar's numbers passing is still better than a lot of his peers, and you can't just like at him from a pure QB standpoint. his entire game has to be looked at as a package. so far, what has been in that package? he gets his team to the playoffs, and he gets home playoff games due to division titles.

think about that. we're not talking about Lamar during the regular season struggling. we're talking about his postseason production. 4 playoff games in 3 years for a QB who is only 25 years old, not even in his prime. dude needs to get an agent and stop messing around.


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oobernoober #1959093 07/28/22 09:46 AM
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Not many QBs can excel running RPOs. Also, their OL was ranked 21st overall by PFF last year. However, they did lose Staley, their LT to injury. I think they were 20th the previous year. Their WRs are really bad, but you did mention that. I don't know.......I believe that no player does more for his team than Lamar. He has some deficiencies, but he is a great player.

bonefish #1959094 07/28/22 09:47 AM
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I have mixed feelings about Lamar.

He is really different. I saw a lot of Vick while living in Atl. Lamar is different. Vick never worked at becoming great. He had great skills but off field was a distraction for him.

Lamar is dedicated. He has improved a ton since coming into the league. I never thought he would be as good as he is.

Still I have doubts. At some point it is my belief that you have to win from the pocket. I don't know if Lamar can do that?

Obviously, there is the injury factor. The more you run past the LOS. The more risk. As a quarterback it is hard to be dependent upon running the ball.

He is a great player and I respect him. However, as an organization when you get to this point where it is time to go all in financially. You will be committing a very high % of your cap to one guy. Can he win a Super Bowl? I don't know if he can against the power players in the AFC?


bonefish #1959100 07/28/22 10:29 AM
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Lamar is a damned decent QB and an electric athlete. I hate the Ravens so much that I can't even say he's fun to watch; I hate him by association.

He acts like a spoiled brat when things don't go his way on the field. I'm not sure he has it all together upstairs. One of my favorite plays last year was watching him hobble off the field after a player we drafted specifically to stop him, took him down. He never returned and the Raven's playoff hopes were dashed. Muahahaha!

I admire the way the org has handled him. Everybody said he would have to change to play in the NFL, Ravens said "nope". I watched early on... 16, 18 rushes per game... "this dude isn't going to hold up, they're just going to chew him up and spit him out and hope to get a SB win out of his rookie deal".

For that to happen he would have to play like an actual QB in the playoffs, he looks lost. In four games: 3TD, 5INT, 19 sacks. When it comes time for playoff football, just call him Willy Nilly.

I hope the Ravens pay him and momma 400M.


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The Ravens are a good, stable organization and they brought him along the right way. They made the system easy and simple for him at first and allowed him to grow. They have had a good defense and great overall system to set him up.

What will be interesting to see is when they make him the highest paid player in the league (I agree with Vers), will they be able to keep all the pieces in place to have that great defense and to keep playing with a lead and less pressure on the offense to perform? To their credit, they're great at drafting.

Like you mention, he's performed poorly overall in the playoffs. There is a lot of pressure to perform in those games, and outside of the revenge game against the Titans, he's looked pretty awful at that time. He has also gone up against good teams in the playoffs that have good defense that put more of the onus on him to carry the team, and he has not been able to step up.

Like other people have said, he definitely has improved, but he also hasn't dealt with substantial adversity. When the team gears a huge chunk of its cap around him, at that point he'll have to be okay with carrying the team more. I guess we'll see if he can rise to that occasion. I agree with you in terms of the "upstairs." I think he's a good guy and I'm sure his teammates like him, but he doesn't seem to have that Manning or Brady unwavering command and maturity (and I know they're the 99th percentile in that regard).

I guess time will tell, like always.


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They'll definitely be paying him more in guaranteed money than they would of had too not long ago. Just like Zona had to.


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....dude needs to get an agent and stop messing around.

I don't know about that. I'd love to see some of these mega contracts go totally to the players. Even if he settles for a little less than an agent would get him, he'll still be way ahead of the game. Especially if mom can handle the endorsement deals. Maybe just hire a financial attorney to consult with to make sure protections are in place and he's not being taken advantage of. I'd love to see this become a trend.


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All I can say about Lamar is

The Browns "D" gonna be coming after you !!!

Want to see the Browns win both games and I could care less what Lamar gets paid !!


Just want to see him on his butt all game long !!!

dawglover05 #1959117 07/28/22 11:31 AM
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We know the Bengals are going to go all in with Burrow.

Chargers will do so with Herbert. The Broncos and Chiefs are all in. The Browns are as well. So are the Raiders. It sounds like the Pats will be with Mac Jones.

Bills, Chiefs, Bengals, Browns, Chargers, Patriots, Broncos, Raiders. And most likely the Ravens. Nine of sixteen teams in the AFC have their guy.

Mostly young quarterbacks with plenty of football left. If you do not have your guy it will be really hard to win a Super Bowl.

The AFC is stock full of talent.

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Like other people have said, he definitely has improved, but he also hasn't dealt with substantial adversity. When the team gears a huge chunk of its cap around him, at that point he'll have to be okay with carrying the team more.

I get the part about the cap, but I don't think another player has been asked to do more for his team than Lamar already has. It's mind-boggling how much they rely on him.

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The book is out on LJ.

Watch the last 4 games he played last year before his ankle injury and his playoff games. Good defensive teams confuse and bewilder him - have to have the horses on D, though. Crowd the line and force him to make quick decisions - he shrinks.

High ankle sprain or any lower leg type injury which limits his mobility and he can't play, why, because his mobility is all he has.

"I hope the Ravens pay him and momma 400M." Could not agree more with that - literally hamstringing that organization for years to come...

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Originally Posted by bonefish
We know the Bengals are going to go all in with Burrow.

.

I heard a "quote" form Mike Brown the other day already stating the seed for Burrow to sign for a contract less than his talent would fairly earn. He said he would hope Burrow takes the attitude of Mahomes and signs for less so the team can be better. Sounds like he is prepping Joe B for a lowball come extension time. Burrow could be the type of kid to oblige, but no one wants to be played during a negotiation. The Bengals, until recently, have shied away form spending big on FAs and historically, IIRC , had a lot of cap space that went unspent.

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If the Bengals lose Burrow, this whole city (I live in the Cincy market) would riot and immediately revert back to fairweather status.


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I thought the book was out on Jackson after the Chargers playoff game when they really had his number and he was powerless, but he's shown the ability to grow and overcome from that. I don't think the book is written on him yet. I do think he has some concerns, which I mentioned, but I do think he's also continuing to improve.


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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
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Like other people have said, he definitely has improved, but he also hasn't dealt with substantial adversity. When the team gears a huge chunk of its cap around him, at that point he'll have to be okay with carrying the team more.

I get the part about the cap, but I don't think another player has been asked to do more for his team than Lamar already has. It's mind-boggling how much they rely on him.

Hey bro, I definitely think that's the case for the offense. I think Morninwheg (sp?) originally simplified the offense for him with that cross-pattern they did with the RB/slot in motion on almost every play, but they have put more on his shoulders ever since, for sure. Especially with Roman.

Where I'm wondering is whether he can take the next level if his defense takes a step back in the event they have to let some of their talent go and the draft picks are too green or just plain don't work out (which usually isn't the case for the Ravens). I do think the defense has taken a lot of weight off his shoulders.

I think this is going back a year or two, but I remember the Ravens were something like 0-9 or 0-10 under Jackson when being down by any amount at the half. So when the defense has struggled, I feel like he has in turn struggled to take the reins, but perhaps that's just a struggle with the offense as a whole.


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I think that Lamar's style has a polarizing effect on people. I was listening to Ryan Clark and Dominique Foxworth [two former players] and they have Lamar in the top 5. Others, as we see on this thread, think he isn't very good. I think he is a better passer than some give him credit for. I do understand that he has some limitations. He is much better over the middle than outside the hashes.

I am probably more forgiving of his limitations than some others because I think the bottom line is that he wins and he carries that team. I do agree w/Swish that he is the second best qb of that 2018 class and it isn't close. Evaluating college as to how they will transition to the NFL has become extremely difficult.

Btw----I'm not arguing w/you at all. I understand your points. Just having a conversation. I miss talking football. Too much junk going on in this forum. Appreciate the discussion.

Versatile Dog #1959224 07/28/22 03:42 PM
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Same here. I can honestly say I'm shocked that Allen turned out as well as he did.

I forgot about him throwing to the sidelines and his struggles there. I'll be curious to see if he improves on that this year, because he has shown the ability to improve on a lot of things, including his mechanics over the past several seasons.

I have to ask, what do you think of his coverage reading? I don't have a good opinion on it either way.


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I really haven't studied him like that. I have noticed that he does better against base and nickel and worse against dime coverages. I think he does better against Cover 2 and struggles more against man. Beyond that, I am not real sure. His offensive concept is really simple and that can hurt him at times. His WRs have been poor. But, I don't think Lamar is going to beat you by making quick reads and identifying weaknesses in coverages. That's not his strength.

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Originally Posted by FORTBROWNFAN
Originally Posted by bonefish
We know the Bengals are going to go all in with Burrow.

.

I heard a "quote" form Mike Brown the other day already stating the seed for Burrow to sign for a contract less than his talent would fairly earn. He said he would hope Burrow takes the attitude of Mahomes and signs for less so the team can be better. Sounds like he is prepping Joe B for a lowball come extension time. Burrow could be the type of kid to oblige, but no one wants to be played during a negotiation. The Bengals, until recently, have shied away form spending big on FAs and historically, IIRC , had a lot of cap space that went unspent.

That's how Brown rolls. I like Burrow the person, and I hope they don't take advantage of him.


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Yeah I really didn't know what to think since so many of his plays likely involve at least his threat to run, which can break the coverage down, vs him dissecting the coverage assignments to break it down in his mind. You definitely don't see him making those pre-snap audibles, at least very much.


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Report: Ravens' Lamar Jackson seeking fully guaranteed contract worth more than Deshaun Watson's $230M deal
By Mike Santa Barbara | Last updated 8/12/22

With Week 1 of the NFL season just a month away, Baltimore Ravens star quarterback Lamar Jackson still doesn't have a contract agreement with the team beyond the 2022 season.

Jackson was always going to get paid a hefty amount, but a shift in the quarterback market may have changed his asking price.

According to Outkick's Jason Cole, Jackson wants a contract that pays him the most guaranteed money among quarterbacks in the NFL.

"Jackson is asking for a contract that is both fully guaranteed and worth more than the $230 million that Cleveland gave to quarterback Deshaun Watson on a five-year deal this offseason," Cole wrote.

In July, Jackson said "I think so" when asked if both sides could agree to a long-term deal before the start of the season. He added there would be a "cutoff" point for negotiations.

Last April, the Ravens exercised the fifth-year option on Jackson's rookie contract, which will pay the former MVP $23 million this season. The 25-year-old can become an unrestricted free agent next offseason.

In 12 regular-season games last season, Jackson led the Raven to a 7-5 record, but Baltimore failed to reach the postseason. Jackson completed 64.4 percent of his passes in 2021, throwing for 2,882 yards, 16 touchdowns and 13 interceptions. He also posted 767 yards off 133 rushing attempts, averaging 5.8 yards per carry, with two scores.

Jackson, in a contract year, could be in store for a big 2022. He noticeably bulked up ahead of the training camp, with Ravens offensive coordinator Greg Roman saying it's "the best I've ever seen him throw."


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Give him the money!!!!!

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Everyone will blame us for what LJ is asking for, especially Steve Biscotti or whatever the Ravens owners name is, but truth be told it was just a matter of time before someone got the kind of contract we gave DW. Why? Because with each passing season, month, week, whatever the QB position is becoming more and more expensive because of its importance. Just look at the astronomical salaries that are increasing with no end in sight. I'll bet out of 32 teams only 15-20 are really happy with their QB situation. Baker is not a bad QB, in fact I think he's pretty good and I liked him, but our ownership and management felt he wasn't good enough and needed to upgrade for a shot at the SB. How they did it has been debated endlessly but we all should be able to understand why. JMO

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Actually, I'm glad the Ravens are going to have to overpay for Lamar and other teams are going to continue to have to overpay for their qbs. We got our guy. Maybe not for this year, but we have a top-tier qb.

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
Everyone will blame us for what LJ is asking for, especially Steve Biscotti or whatever the Ravens owners name is, but truth be told it was just a matter of time before someone got the kind of contract we gave DW. Why? Because with each passing season, month, week, whatever the QB position is becoming more and more expensive because of its importance. Just look at the astronomical salaries that are increasing with no end in sight. I'll bet out of 32 teams only 15-20 are really happy with their QB situation. Baker is not a bad QB, in fact I think he's pretty good and I liked him, but our ownership and management felt he wasn't good enough and needed to upgrade for a shot at the SB. How they did it has been debated endlessly but we all should be able to understand why. JMO

I agree.

I am waiting for the day when teams wise up and just go with running QB's. You have a endless supply to choose from on a yearly basis. A team could have 3 on the roster so you wouldn't miss much if one got nicked.

Sure, they still throw, but it would be much cheaper to see teams go to this and have the QB more or less a throw away position much like runningback has become a throw away position. Ride them for as long as they last then move on to the next. The advantage is the running QB can always slide to end a play, thus eliminating a lot of hits.

Yes, I know people won't agree. Hey, Johnny Stanton was a QB in college. Hmmmm

Last edited by Ballpeen; 08/14/22 07:03 AM.

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I just realized you turned it back to the Browns situation.
If the Browns have their top tier uarterback, can he play today? probably not.

It's too much money for Lamar, and it's too much money for Deshaun, and too much money for any one NFL player there ever was, to give them 230 million guaranteed, for the potential to play in the future.
The NFL is not that important.

The Ravens should probably hold fast and let Lamar walk, he'd probably end up in... where?


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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It's been heavily debated in Cleveland. Outside of Cleveland there's not much debate about it. A new precedent was set and Halslam set it. The other 31 owners must now deal with the ramifications of it.


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Ball the league won't like QB's that run most of the time and throw just a little. They don't want to go back to Offenses of the 60's and 70's. Remember that? the big catch phrase back then was you had to establish the run so you could pass later. Most teams did exactly that. O's like that are bad for ratings, bad for business. Plus, the league needs big recognizable stars at the QB position.

Last edited by Homewood Dog; 08/14/22 11:58 AM.
PitDAWG #1962727 08/14/22 12:02 PM
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We'll just have to call Jimmy Haslam a maverick and trendsetter!!!!!!! He's trying to bring a winner here whether people like how he's doing it or not.

Homewood Dog #1962732 08/14/22 12:14 PM
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Yeah, that's it. He's a trendsetter.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
PitDAWG #1962740 08/14/22 12:28 PM
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LOL!!!!!

Homewood Dog #1962746 08/14/22 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
LOL!!!!!

I said you guys wouldn't agree.

I am just saying if teams want to cap the big salaries for QB's and quit spending a lot of time trying to find the limited few who can play the position as it is played today, that is the answer.

As for stars, the league will always have those.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Ballpeen #1962808 08/14/22 04:56 PM
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The best thing the league could do to help all the lesser players is to put a cap on what percentage of a team's annual payroll any single player can represent.

By default, this will force more money to roll down to more players.


Beyond that... I hope Lamar bleeds the Ravens dry.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

1 member likes this: Clemdawg
PrplPplEater #1962851 08/14/22 07:41 PM
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Agree!

After your post I was curious to see what percentage of our salary cap goes to QB... for next year, it's 23% of our cap is going to QBs.. that's a ton... hoping we can draft well to get some talent for cheap for a few years..


<><

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jaybird #1964576 08/23/22 08:35 AM
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We have smart Ivy Leaguers taking care of the cap......GO Browns!!!


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