DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shaun Smith

Well since Eo and DND asked me to watch the Houston game and give a analsys of what I saw..
First it was difficult for several reasons..the Browns rotated different players in at NT so he wasn't in every single series.
This is not a play by play evaluation but a summary of what I saw.
First and foremost he gets DT'd almost every time he's in..I continually saw the C and OG hit and try to contain him.
Dude is a load even on passing downs he was being doubled..

On one play he totally blew off the center only to have a OG wrap him around the neck (no penalty) and still made a hit..
He gets good excelleration off the ball and has enough speed to move laterally down the LOS in pursuit even being blocked.
He got a sack which was nice.the Texans Oline was not able to consistantly move him off the ball...
He has enough power to disturpt the LOS but needs to work on technique and develop some moves which will free him up from one blocker quicker..
He is getting more DT's than any of our NT's ever had..

I said before I thought it was a mistake to move him to DE to cover Royes spot..I say again he should have been left to play NT and Kelly should be moved to DE..
The tandeum of R.Smith/S.Smith/O.Roye would have been more effective had they been able to work together.
Now is he the long answer??
I cannot say that yet..I need to see more..he has to play in that NT position for at least 5 more games to truely know if he is the answer.

I do see he is more comfortable at NT than DE...NT is his position..

He is just learning it and shouldn't be diverted by having to move to another position to learn it..
IMO leave him there...let him develop and gain the experience..
If he is not the long term answer he is definately the backup we want.
Now U guys know how I am about the trenches..
Phil still needs to get two more linemen who are powerful, disruptive and athletic to upgrade the line..
Put Smith at the nose..get another DE/NT , let Frasier/Kelly go...

Interesting take , thanks for taking the time

Shaun Smith is going to be key to this defensive line. He's got some experience, and he is showing that he can take advantage using the knowledge and strength he has to make some plays.

I'm glad we got him personally. I also like the fact that he stays in people's faces. As a defensive lineman, I think thats important.

Good job so far Shaun.

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Phil still needs to get two more linemen who are powerful, disruptive and athletic to upgrade the line..
Put Smith at the nose..get another DE/NT

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Smith is more than serviceable and appears to be growing quite nicely into our system,.....definately a keeper.

Although getting 2 starting DL's would be perfect,...I'll settle for 1 DL and 2 LB's.....Having that will take us to the next level.

Cal Phil should be able to get one in FA, then get a Dlineman in the draft..thats the way he approached the Oline..same thing can be done on defense.
BTW..from what I hear Phil will be looking to upgrade the inside LB spot..

.. " BTW..from what I hear Phil will be looking to upgrade the inside LB spot.... "


.. From your lips to Gods ears

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BTW..from what I hear Phil will be looking to upgrade the inside LB spot..

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ILB is where we need to add a couple of real studs.

I wanted play by play... j/k
thanks for the time but basically that is what I saw in general. BTW...were you saying this back in August when we moved Shaun Smith over to DE as Roye had knee surgery? Or after the season was in play.

Shaun was just learning the system and when we moved him to DE where he was the best option to start! He struggled with it. When Roye came back he never implanted himself as a longterm player. We decided that Smith was just starting to get the DE scheme down and didn't want to set him back by bringing him to NT again.

TW hurt his knee (played on it for about 3 weeks) and lost all lateral movement of that big body - he is gone, retired, coach??? on the IR.

Since then we have gone into a 4 man DL very often using Smith, Smith, Roye n Fraser as the DTs and Peek, Wimbley n McG as the DEs.

This was probably the most we used the 3-4 Defense since the Pats game.

Well..while I was watching the tape, I was focusing in the DT..and was finding out it wasn't always Smith..

I am going to replay midway third and fourth again..so I'm not done yet greedy man

were you saying this back in August when we moved Shaun Smith over to DE as Roye had knee surgery? Or after the season was in play.

I felt when I heard they were moving him to DE it was a mistake..
We brought him to play NT..Kelly had already played some DE so why move the kid over when they already knew he had to learn the NT spot and putting at DE stunts his reps at NT?
Now back at NT he looks the part.

I know what you're saying..but I just would have planted him there..and ah..moved Ted somewhere..like back in the rotation...
One thing I noticed in the plays he was in compared to Ted..TW xould be knocked down by one man ..I didn't see that with Smith..
The time I saw him get cut down, he was moving laterially and had dispatched the center only to have the ROG cut him down at the thigh..

"Kelly had already played some DE"

Thats simple...we needed a starter over there not a guy who can take a couple of reps. Kelley just doesn't have the athleticism or quickness that Smith does for the starting DE role. We would have had a big void there. The option wasn't Kelley it was Fraser. Kelley wouldn't not have been a good starter at all at the DE spot.

This is the debate U and I had before..
Kelly doesn't have the power and base to play NT either..
I'd rather have the stronger player in the hole..
Seeing the NT continually get pushed back is old..
Actually the mistake goes beyond that..some of guys released were more talented than Ted..even Osh could have manned the DE ..he showed he has speed/quickness and actually rushes the passer..

Baba might have looked good at DE. ?

He could never play NT longterm..he just gets shoved back.
When he played DE he was effective...
My point is that keeping Ted was really a waste as he just got dominated at the LOS..too many times he was on his back and a lineman was looking down at him..
Too old to control his body..
Soooo..Rac could have moved had some the young guys (even Yvonne Parker played NT better than Kelly) to DE and kept Smith at NT..

That was my point .. how would Baba look at DE ? .. I am in complete agreement with you on the this one .. My stance was that keeping Ted & Baxter on the 53 was a big mistake from the beginning . Starting Smith and Smith with a rotation of young DE's on the other side , Roye when possible .

I'm really not good at play by play I just look at what I see in summary..

The times he was cut down Ice it was because he got by the first man only to have the second hit him low..not because one lineman was able to handle him one on one..
What was interesting was the initial push he gets off the ball...even on passing downs....it doesn't appear one man can consistantly block down on him..
His penetration allowed R.Smith to have a better game...

Well that was my point to Waterdawg..I know it wasn't that simple, but Ted would have had to vacate the starting lineup..
Parker/Osh would have rotated at DE instead of Smith..
Then either Kelly would spell Smith ..

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Seems pretty obvious that he doesn't offer much above what we have, else he'd be here.

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Obvious to us,,, yup,, I'd say so.. LOL

But to the BabaHuggers? Hmmm


Really, I don't think anyone really cares,, I just wanted to write the word Babahuggers!

I wish we would have drafted Brandon Mebane of Cal.. He's doing pretty well for the Seahawks..

" even Yvonne Parker played better NT than Kelley"

I knew the defense was struggling,but getting out played by a girl?

j/c

What about Purcell & Pittman?

As a casual observer, Roye, Smith, and Smith looked a lot better than any other 3 players we've had on the d-line since the inception of the 3-4. They certainly are much better than the Chipmunks a.k.a Alvin (McKinley), Simon (Fraser), and Theodore (Washington). But you are right: Phil needs to get us at least two more defensive linemen. The most obvious reason being that Robaire and Roye are not exactly spring chickens.

Haynesworth won't come cheap in free agency, but he'd look real nice shoring up the front 3!

Part of me hopes that we get a 1st and a 3rd rounder from a team with a high draft pick for Anderson, and we're able to land Dorsey from LSU in the 1st and maybe land someone like Red Bryant from TAMU in the second round.

Of course, another part of me feels so stupid for even thinking about shipping out the quarterback that lit a fire under our offense's collective butt.

But then again, why give an arm and a leg for the golden domer if you're just gonna have him ride the pine?

(Sorry to divert this into a DA vs. Quinn discussion, but at least we have two QBs worth fighing for! Weren't we choosing between Trent Dilfer and Charlie Frye a short while ago?)

Future quarterback controversy aside, I really feel like the additon of two quality D-linemen will make the rest of our D light years better. After all, that worked for the offense!

Thanks...

Since day one we were looking for this line to be Roye/Smith/Smith...Just as Savage and Crennel were...Then comes Roye and that damn knee again...HURT us...I wanna see this the rest of the year...And we'll know what we have going into the off season...

Whether anyone likes it or not...If I'm satisfied with Quinn's progress and I get the 1st Round offer for Anderson...I TAKE IT AND NEVER LOOK BACK...If we high tender him and get the additional 3rd rounder...SUPER...There's NO WAY we Franchise him...We ain't payin' him over 12M in 2008...Not gonna happen...

This would all be for the better of this team...We get back into the 1st round and use it or our 2nd rounder on an End...We're gonna be a better defense...Even if the pick is utilized in a rotation...That gets either Roye or Fraser out of here...And that's a GOOD thing...

Yeah we want Turner for that Young Featured Back...And I think we'll target him for Chud...But I also think we'll go with TWO Big Signings since we no longer need to go after the Big Buck Offensive Linemen...And we'll have ALOT of Cap Space available...Like many others with the insane cap allowances we're seeing now...

IF...And it's a HUGE IF Tennessee lets Haynesworth hit the market we should be all over em'...

Haynesworth with Smith and Smith along with a HIGH draft replacement in the rotation for Roye and/or Fraser will make this defense MUCH better in both running AND pass defense...If we can land Haynesworth or Kelly from Oakland I would not even consider Suggs...I'd turn my attention to the INSIDE LB spot...And there's one scheduled for FA and we just so happen will be seeing him this week in Zona...

Karlos Dansby of Auburn---6' 4" and 250lbs...25 years old...

U field a DL of Haynesworth or Kelly with Smith and Smith and a top 2 round lineman for the rotation...Along with Peek/Jax/Dansby/Wimbley and get Davis off the field...And this D will be ready to take us to the Division Title...

SHAUN SMITH IS THE KEY....

Haynesworth or Kelly DE
Dansby ILB
Top 2 round DL
Turner RB

Right there is your off season wish list...We won't NEED to throw up 30 a game to even stay CLOSE...

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Haynesworth won't come cheap in free agency, but he'd look real nice shoring up the front 3!

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I will be surprised if we go after him, He has been involved in some of pacmans incidents...along with the head stomping incedent, we've been know to stay away from questionable charactors.

HBT..McBane was on my list too..but giving up those third/fourth rounds hurt in terms of getting early Dline help..

LineJudge...I miss spelled Jo'Vonne 's name

WSU Willie ...Purcell & Pittman are projects..thats the best way to put it..don't know much about them..they need devloping..

DnD : Haynesworth with Smith and Smith along with a HIGH draft replacement in the rotation for Roye and/or Fraser will make this defense MUCH better in both running AND pass defense...If we can land Haynesworth or Kelly from Oakland I would not even consider Suggs...I'd turn my attention to the INSIDE LB spot...And there's one scheduled for FA and we just so happen will be seeing him this week in Zona...

Agreed..it depends on what happens..but regardless whether Smith pans out we still need one monster lineman...
And it's time to get a SILB who's a beast...
I won't talk draft picks right now cause we don't know how all of theis QB thing is gonna play out..



RansomWhitney : Haynesworth won't come cheap in free agency, but he'd look real nice shoring up the front 3!


Well for the time being , I think it's safe to say Phil is going to use most of his resources to get some top -tier front 7 help in FA...

Purcell and Pittman are definitely projects, and I doubt they ever make the field, b/c they never had the body size to play 3-4 football. Not really sure what Savage was thinking when he drafted them. We already have an undersized Simon Frasier, who in my opinion isn't getting any better.

Hopefully this year we will draft guys who already weigh 295 lbs. and up.

I've been eyeing Dre Moore of Maryland, Keilen Dykes of West Virginia, and Kevin Brown of UCLA. I really do think that Shaun Smith can become our first option at NT, and now we only need to bring in DE's that can play with as much heart as Shaun does. Robaire is doing a heck of a job too by the way.

I see Smith had another good solid game against the Cards ...

Nice post DID, I agree. Yes, SS is the best option at NT, and I suspect that if RAC could play him where he would like to, that is where SS would be playing, but due to injury, aging, and other factors SS has been moved to the defensive end position. It's not ideal, it is what it is.

AH will be targeted by the Browns, no questions there to me. My bet is that the Tenn will make a big push to get him resigned, but I am also certain that his agent has evaluated the market and understands that AH will likely be given some pretty good offers by multiple teams. The question remains though, is AH a problem player. That could make the Browns as well as others shy away from him???

And yes we will go after a ILB, perhaps as you pointed out or perhaps LB, but we will try to add a ILB it's just a matter of who. And I to can see the Browns bring in a couple of guys thru the draft for depth and to begin the learning process. Something left out tho is where are the guys we drafted late last year on D Line, in terms of their developement. I liked the kid Percels in pre season perhaps he is a viable player for the D line or depth continued developement next year as well??

JMHO

I don't think the guys we drafted last year for the defensive line will ever really get a shot.. whether they have the talent or not..

For Gods sake man I would hate like hell to think that if they have the talent and, we wouldn't ever use them. That said why do you think that??

You must be one of those guys that think PS and RAC are idiots based on this statement. If not sorry.. But wow saying they won't get a chance even if they have the talent thats a bit much, don't you think???

no... most late round picks don't really get a shot...

we have a 3rd round pick that hasn't really got a shot...

Heard of Travis Wilson?

I don't wish to turn this into a WR thread, but exactly where, on this team, would you play Travis Wilson right now?

I find it hard to believe he would do less than Carter. Must be REAL slow learning....

O.k..lemmie put it this way...
Can either catch a cold?

Only way to answer if Wison can play is what he's doing in practice...
If he isn't doing anything he won't see any time..