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Winslow feels need to prove his worth
Browns tight end earns respect, but believes he can still play better
By Patrick McManamon

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Kellen Winslow leads the league in receptions by a tight end and ranks third among all receivers.

He has played every game for the Browns and has fought through constant pain in his knee.

He has talked big and backed it up.

One would think Winslow has answered pretty much any question that lingered about his ability to play coming off nearly two missed seasons.

But Winslow feels there is much left to prove.

``I'm not even close to healthy,'' he said Friday.

Pain in his surgically repaired left knee forces Winslow to miss practice time every week. How tough is it?

``Real tough; I'm hurting right now,'' he said, standing at the team's facility.

The problem: Lingering scar tissue that Winslow said affects his speed, his burst and his ability to cut. He said he probably will require arthroscopic surgery in the offseason.

This is not unusual; players often have problem joints ``cleaned out'' once the season ends. But it's one more potential hurdle for Winslow, who broke his leg as a rookie, hurt his knee in a motorcycle accident and then was set back by a staph infection.

Winslow tore his ACL when he was thrown from the motorcycle. He also damaged other parts of his knee -- like the retinaculars, which hold the patella tendon in place. The injury left him in the Cleveland Clinic for a week, where he said his knee swelled to the size of a basketball.

The odds of returning were not rosy.

``It's all about how bad you want it,'' Winslow said.

In what is essentially his first season, Winslow is earning the respect of his teammates, who see how he shows up on Sundays, and of his opponents.

``He is a monster,'' Atlanta Falcons cornerback DeAngelo Hall said.

Winslow has been in the news all season. He spoke up after the second game, saying the offense needed a jolt and that some of the play calling was holding back the team.

He made himself a target in San Diego when he said the week before the Chargers game that he would prove he's the best tight end in the league.

After the game, he confessed to ``just having fun with it.''

Winslow even went to Antonio Gates of the Chargers on the field to assure him he meant nothing personal.

``He was just saying that he didn't mean any harm.'' Gates said. ``It was more of a competitive thing for him. I just basically said that I'm happy that he's on the field and he can play.''

Winslow was booed every time he touched the ball and was the object of nasty chants as he left the field where his father became a hall of famer.

His response: He looked in the crowd and said, ``Wow.''

Some Falcons declined to talk about Winslow this week, but Hall said on a conference call that ``Kellen has the attitude and determination to be the best.''

Winslow, at times, has made mental errors, which might be attributed to his missed practice time. His passion, however, cannot be questioned.

``I was able to see him work out at the University of Miami when he was coming out,'' Falcons coach Jim Mora said. ``It was just one of the most impressive workouts I've ever witnessed from a college athlete. The intensity in which he approached everything he did really stood out. I haven't seen him in play in person yet, but watching him on film, you see those obvious physical traits.

``Maybe more importantly, the mindset, tenacity, toughness and passion that he brings to the game.''

``The ultimate goal is to get to the Super Bowl,'' Winslow said. ``Try to win your home games, win your division games and get to the playoffs. But at the same time in this business, you have to play well personally or your butt will be out of here.

``You got to be, not selfish,but you got to make sure you're doing your job first and foremost. And if you're doing your job first and foremost, you're going to help the team.''

Winslow sees his job as catching the ball and getting first downs. He said he wants catches, because they help the team. He'll pay attention to his numbers, but his body language during the game speaks of winning.

Commenting to the media after two games angered his coach and some of his teammates, but few from outside thought what Winslow said was wrong.

At other times, he has made remarks in the midst of interviews that show an understanding of the game.

He seemed stunned the Browns would throw a fullback option pass on third-and-inches in Carolina, and in San Diego, he shrugged off his 11 catches as part of the two-minute offense.

``That's not game-planned,'' he said. ``The game plan is plays we set up against their defense (where) they're going to try to get opportunities for me to get the ball. That wasn't the case last week, and I don't understand why.

``But that's the way it is. Obviously when the ball is in my hands, I make things happen.''

That statement summarizes Winslow: Confident to the point of brash; pointed, yet trying to walk that fine line.

Among tight ends, Winslow has 13 more catches than Tony Gonzalez, 17 more than Todd Heap, 17 more than Gates and 20 more than Jeremy Shockey.

But Gates summed up the situation for both Winslow and him by saying: ``I think at the end of the day, more people remember the guys that win than the guys who lose.''

For that reason, Winslow said when this season ends, he will be ranked behind players like Gonzalez and Gates ``just because we're in the Cleveland market.''

Meaning the team isn't winning, and the market is small.

Winslow answered quickly when asked if, given all he has been through, the first half of the 2006 season has been satisfying.

``No, not at all,'' he said.

Because?

``We're not winning.'


[img][image]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y105/thepitdog/topdawg.jpg[/img][/image]

I don't care what anyone else thinks, I like this kid. If every Brown had his intensity we'd be a lot better off, IMO.

finally some media attention for winslow that isnt trying to make him seem like a bigger idiot than he is. i really dont believe winslow is an idiot; i think he is just so competive that sometimes he seems like one. now if only we had some people as intense and as competive as winslow is on defense. then we would be winning some ball games.

Braylon Edwards, I'm looking at you.

This is prolly out of the blue...but i wonder if BE feels like K2 is stealing his spot light? He seemed to play at another level last year...he seemed lot more confident on the field for the short time he played....



Anyways...i've always said it...even last few weeks when people have been quick to lable him loud mouth...this kid is nothing but good for the browns right now....love it that he is a BROWN! we really needed someone like this! hope BE can also put up some good #s this week!

Winslow is a great athlete, but it is his intensity that sets him apart.

I hope he can stay relatively healthy. He could end up being one of the all-time greats.

hopefully BE is smart enough to understand, the spot light goes to the playmakers...and Win and everybody is under it...So if he wants it, earn it....WIN

I have a feeling Winslow is out of here at the first opportunity....I can even see him forcing a trade.

No way. We're a good team and he is the #1 star on it. If frye keeps the QB job, KWII is going to be his #1 option all the time and he won't turn that down. Plus everyone loves his intensity and talent.

Plus, I bet he feels obligated to kick some bootay because of his screwups in the past. He won't be leaving for awhile.

I don't see him forcing a trade as long as he feels we're making progress (more likely had Mo stayed).
I agree though, that I'll be shocked if he ever signs another contract here.
Maybe if he makes the pro-bowl as a Brown and gets the media attention he wants, maybe, but he clearly seems to crave the big-market spot-light.

We have to be winning when KW2 and Edwards' contracts are up...and sometimes I wonder if even that's enough. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Short term rentals, IMO.

We know it bugs him and we know it affects his speed, agility, ability to plant, etc.

He also says he's still at 90% and will likely need surgery in the offseason to clean up some more lingering scar tissue.

ACL's are a 16 month recovery period, he's just now hitting the 16 month timeline. We also know there's more than ACL damage in the knee, therefore one could argue that the process is somewhere around two years.

My thought is, after the knee scope presumably in January (if he makes the Pro Bowl I doubt he'll play, for medical reasons), how much more of an improvement in his knee can we expect? I know probably not 100%, but could we see somewhere around a 95% recovery?

That extra 5% could do wonders...any medical experts in here?

The Browns fan in me says, No way does he leave the Browns...

The Business man in me says,,, He'll go where the money leads him. Rarely today will you find a player who's loyal to anything but the BUCK...

Here's a thought. Hometown stars would in all probability be willing to take less money to play for thier home town team. So you could expect guys like Frye or Bentley to take less money to play here than anywhere else. (Bentley made a killing coming here however)

I could see him wanting to goto San Diego if Gates wasn't there. Other than that I think we will offer him enough that he will remain, unless someone just offers an absurd payday.

i strongly disagree KII isnt all about the money and has already added a year onto his contract to make up for the year he lost and payed back part of his bonus that just shows hes a quality character and is trying to become one of the strong voices of this team and make it HIS team and when his contract is up i dont see him throwing that away specially if we are winning

I just hope we can keep Winslow... Some other team can have Braylon for all I care...

BTW Phil... LOVE the sig! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't think you're comparing apples to apples. That was a situation where he cost the franchise millions and violated the wording of his contract. It wasn't a favor on his part to re-structure, it was a compromise that allowed the Browns to get something in return for his stupidity without alienating him entirely.

He's the best offensive player I've seen in a Cleveland Browns uniform in a very long time (from a play-making stand-point of course - he still has a lot to learn in general).

I'm totally speculating 'cause I don't know the guy at all - but he seems like a big-market guy to me. He's made several comments about Cleveland being a small market team. Guess it would have more to do with the size of the spot-light than the zeroes in the contract. Kids a gamer - he wants to compete in that national spotlight. Who can blame him?

well, if you're going to toss that stuff out there, at least be factual about it.

He paid back money because he was contractually obligated to, not because it was the right and honorable thing (not saying that part never occurred to him, just stating that someone doesn't just give back a few million of their own accord).


I love Winslow, the way he plays and his fire and would like nothing more than to see him spend his entire career on Lake Erie, but what you cited shows nothing as far as "he's not all about the money". If anything, him still having the Postons for agents, his initial holdout and negotiating to get his money back speak to the contrary.... but that's all argument for making something out of nothing.

I feel that if we just make him a fair offer when the time comes, he'll stay here on the North Coast.

Not to rail on you as I wish what you say to be true but your Orange and Brown glasses will shatter with Sadness when it turns out to be only a dream... Click your heals Dorothy... Danglet hit the nail on the head!

[color:"white"]Seems way too premature to talk about his free agency period. I don't have the info right in front of me, but isn't that like 4 years out?

Winslow is the primary player because he's the best player on the offensive side of the ball and it isn't close. Droughns is a servicable back but he's no game-breaker. Edwards is a deep threat but he has iffy hands. JJ is a possession receiver, and a fragile one at that, nothing more. Tucker is our best linemen and he's merely decent.

Winslow is about to become our first pro-bowler in several years as he works his way towards 100 catches (especially with Gonzalez going down for a few weeks). He's proving his worth. Now if he'll just shut his damned mouth and stop making dumb plays like the personal foul on Sunday.[/color]

Agreed 100% The kid may be great someday but does he really want to be remebered as a T.O. type guy who was a huge talent but a bigger Ahole?

Week 10 of k2's breakout year and the sterotypes and negative speculation already begins.......

first of all I see no way a trade is ever done by him. He can demand to be traded but can't force cleveland to give him away. Savage isn't dumb....he would demand a hefty price for our soldier.

Secondly, the season isn't over yet. He hasn't played a full season in 3 years and...yes I know he is having a good year......but until he is a perrenial pro bowler and in the last year of his contract there is no need to worry, speculate, or care what he wants or may want.

Anywho....Let him run this contract out, if he's a stud at the end of this deal (which is a BIG if) franchise tag him...he's already paid like a top 3 tight end so whats the difference.

Lastly...who knows how long he's got with that shredded leg. I thikn he left about 5 years of his career on that curb he crashed his bike into.....well just have to wait and see like 5 years from now what he wants....

If he would use the energy from his yap into BLOCKING..he is a ALL PRO..

I agree Focker...was just stating it the way I see it.

If we aren't winning games in the next few years, I can easily see Winslow becoming more of a malcontent than a team player - not as bad as a Moss or a TO - but he could go that direction. That in of itself can be grounds for forcing a trade....talking your way out of town.

Kellen is my favorite Brown - Cleveland is my favorite city. Kellen is big market guy - likes the sunshine, etc (I recall a quote from camp that Kellen said - he had no idea it got this hot in Cleveland - that it was just like Miami).

I guess my point is it would not surprise me.

[color:"white"]Yeah, he's a very mediocre blocker for a TE. In fact, we have 2 very mediocre blockers at TE.[/color]

You guys remember the sunday night show down at ketchup field back in 02...or was it 03...hmm i think it was 02....tim couch lit up pukesburgh and we beat the hell out of them? 33-somethin

Wouldn't it be great to have a win like that again....cept it's home this time!

that was '03 I think... and I believe it was the last time we beat Pittsburgh. That was an awesome day... the air felt friggin electric heading into that night getting ready for the game.

Here's a sad stat for everyone for this week:

Since the return we are absolutely WINLESS against Pittsburgh without Tim Couch as the starting quarterback <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />
Freaking 03? wow that is depressing....talk about getting owned...are u sure we haven't beaten them since 03? <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Kellen has the potential to be a beast. Well, he is, but damn, if it weren't for the injuries and 2 missed seasons. I can only imagine.

With a year under his belt and- hopefully- a better knee, K2 will redefine the TE position.

Butch Davis, you did something right before you left. I see what you saw. It's just a shame it took 2 years for everyone to get that glimpse.

Might as well bump this down since no one's replied to it...it was why I made it it's own thread originally but it got merged.

I think the best thing about Winslow right now is that Pittsburgh has no experience playing against him. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Ammo...but he said that 90% is better than any other TE in the league <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Are there medical experts that are also Browns fans, period? <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

That 5% is probably pain-related. He might be in less pain or pain-free, which would allow him to open his game up a bit more. Like sharper cuts without hesitating and a little more strength. If your knee is really bothering you, I'm sure the strength is still there, but you may think twice when 2 guys pile on and you want to fight for that extra yard. That's the 5% I'm betting he's talking about.

This post isn't directed at you, just a general response.......

I think the better question is why does everyone forget that BE tore his ACL a year ago? He busted his ass all off-season to get back well before doctors even thought possible and people are starting to question whether he has an attitude problem (i.e. someone stealing his spotlight). It was a miracle to have him in the lineup for the first 4-6 games of the season and in all honesty, how much did you really expect to get out of him this year? Personally, all I wanted him to do was stay healthy, make a few plays here and there and be 100% healthy for 2007-08. I mean, he isn't even a year removed from a 16 month injury at a speed position and everyone is already moaning and groaning.I think people are expecting too much out of him. He's on pace for 60 catches and nearly 900 yards, that would be a great stepping stone for the 2007-08 season......

I know he's dropped some passes he shouldn't have but that's part of the process. If you watch him it's obvious he has yet to get over the mental hurdle of being injured (which is expected). He protects his knee whenever possible, covers up if he's going to get hit and has yet to really sell out for a bad pass (all things he did at Michigan prior to the injury). Eventually he'll put it behind him and start to show everyone why he was considered the best player in the 05 draft.

It just takes time. KW2 even talked about how hard it is to start to trust your body again after a devastating injury. TE is not WR either. Kellen can get away with being a step slow right now (and still be effective), Braylon cannot. If a WR isn't 100% it's going to be hard for him to be effective, especially when he's just a second year player 18 games in to his career. As they say patience is a virtue.

Also keep in mind that playing with (what is essentuially) a first year QB (16 games), a first year WR (18 games) and an OL that can block anyone is usually not a recipe for success. Timing is also everything for a WR and QB. For every pass BE has dropped this season, Frye has missed him downfield or thrown the ball be hind him three to four times. Eventually they'll start to click, just give it some time.

Think of all the people that started to give up on Pool and Jones last season (just as an example)........these guys need time to develop, especially on offense. Jones is probably the best example because he suffered the same injury. A season ago Sean looked absolutely lost, a year later he's playing like a potential pro-bowl saftey.

Nas... You actually wrote a good post and if I wasn't objective enough to see the agenda you had going, I would believe it... <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />



Was miraculous to have him back... What did I EXPECT of him? Just to catch the passes he SHOULD catch and improve his route running...




K2 would be a BAD example as his body takes more of a beating than BE's...



Frye has missed him but all the same, BE does little to strike confidence from your QB when you continuously run poor routes and cost your QB/team turnovers during crucial times of the game...

I also see the kid playing with guts physically but he seems to have his head up his ass when his number is called... Big time players step up during big time situations... He is one of the many on this team that gets paid to do just that, but fails when given the chance to...

BTW, Javon Walker seemed to come back fine the year after his injury... Come to think of it, Steve Smith had a career year following his broken leg...

Sorry Nas, I am not buying the B.S. that Braylon is the #1 player in the 05 draft... He has a LONG way to go to become that...

Walker tore his knee up in week 1.

Smith BROKE a bone...had no ligament damage.

Edwards tore his ACL in december and didn't have the operation till January I believe.

Don't compare those 3...its apples and oranges.




Bad example? If anything BE does just as much planting and cutting as K2. Not to mention K2 was merely saying it takes time to trust your body after a devastating injury....It wouldn't matter if it was the punter or a LB saying that. The beating a player takes has little to do with what was said.... the point he was making is its takes a while to trust your body again.

Give Edwards TIME. The witch hunts around here are ridicolous. Edwards will be a 1200 yd 8 TD guy year after year once he is finally mentally healthy and everyone will be on his bandwagon just like all the haters on here love K2 now....

So being rational is having an agenda now adays? <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

I took the same approach with Sean Jones (as I said). There were many people on this board saying Jones was a bust last year and that he probably wouldn't be a starter in the NFL......a year later (and nearly 2 years after his ACL surgury) everyone is calling him one of the best young safties in the league. I'm not going to name names (and I do remember specific, long time posters) but the majorty of armchair QB's on this board were all in the same boat.

The same goes for Brodney Pool. All last season I listened to everyone on this board say "why did we draft Brodney Pool over so and so. Pool looks like a wasted pick. Maybe Savage doesn't know what he's doing, yada, yada, yada." Now these same people are talking about how Pool and Jones could end up as the best safety tandem in the NFL.

My point is, you or I don't know how good Braylon will ever be but atleast give the guy some time to prove himself.

As for comparing him to other VETERAN players that were injured, you're hardly in the same ballpark. Maybe if you were comparing second year WR's who tore their ACL in their rookie year, it might be relevant. It's like comparing Peyton Manning coming off an injury to Charlie Frye coming off an injury. Even so, I'll humor you a little, hehe. Those two guys you mentioned (Steve Smith and Javon Walker) didn't come in to the NFL guns blazing....here's their first two years in the NFL:

Javon Walker:

2002: 23 Catches, 319 Yards and 1 TD
2003: 41 Catches, 716 yards and 9 TD's

Steve Smith:

2001: 10 Catches, 154 Yards and 0 TD's
2002: 54 Catches, 872 Yards and 3 TD's

Oh and neither one of those players played year two coming of an ACL injury.

There's plenty of other players and examples as well but I think you get my point.

Just give BE some time......I'm sure it would be easier to be patient if he didn't go to Michigan huh? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Exactly, just the fact that he went to m*chigan shows he has bad taste <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Winslow on pace for record season
Jeff Walcoff, Staff Writer
11.15.2006
Kellen Winslow continues to post an outstanding year statistically in what, for all intents and purposes, is his rookie season.

In fact, he's on pace to break a long-standing team record.

With 56 catches for 561 yards through 9 games, Winslow is on pace to shatter Ozzie Newsome's team-record of 89 receptions in a season (1983 and '84). If Winslow continues at this pace, he'll finish the season with 100 catches for just under 1,000 yards.

A 1,000-yard receiving season would be just the third in team history by a tight end. Winslow needs 1,002 yards on the season to tie the team mark for receiving yards by a tight end, held by Newsome (1981).

As far as his ranking in the league, Winslow is third in the NFL in receptions behind only the Texans' Andre Johnson and Donald Driver of the Packers.

Winslow has two more receptions than the Colts' Marvin Harrison, five more than the Bengals' Chad Johnson, seven more than the Cowboys' Terrell Owens and 12 more than the Chiefs' Tony Gonzalez, who is the next-best tight end in the league in terms of catches.

He's also 10th in the AFC in receiving yardage ahead of fellow tight ends like Antonio Gates of the Chargers and Todd Heap of the Ravens.

Winslow is tied for eighth in the AFC in third-down receiving with 14 catches for 152 yards and a touchdown.

STILL SPECIAL--The Browns special teams units continue to shine.

Dennis Northcutt still is the NFL's top punt returner. He averages 14.8 yards per return with 267 yards on 18 attempts.

Joshua Cribbs, meanwhile, ranks fourth in kick returns, averaging 26.8 yards per attempt.

Kicker Phil Dawson has managed 60 points this season (good for sixth in the AFC), including 15 field goals. At this pace, Dawson will finish the season with 107 points, good for what would be a career high as well as his fourth 100-point season in five years.

He also is third in the NFL in kickoffs for touchbacks with 11. The team is third in the NFL in average starting spot for drives after kickoffs (30.4) and is this in the NFL in opponent's average (23.3).

Punter Dave Zastudil is fifth in the AFC in punting average at 44.8 yards. He's fourth in net average at 38.9.

Northcutt owns an AFC season-high with 104 punt return yards in the team's game at San Diego on Nov. 5, while Dawson holds the NFL mark for most field goals in a game by a kicker with 6 in the same game.

QUICK HIT STATS: With a pick Sunday against the Falcons, safety Sean Jones ranks tied for second in the NFL with 5 interceptions...Kamerion Wimbley is third in the NFL in sacks by a rookie. He has 5.5, which trails the Bears' Mark Anderson (7.5) and the Broncos' Elvis Dumervil (6.0)...The Browns are tied for last in the league in turnover ratio at minus-8. But interestingly enough, with whom do they share the distinction? The Oakland Raiders and, yes, the defending Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=6100