DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Covid ~ Part 10

Can you name any time a president started promoting an unauthorized medication in a time of crisis in America? I didn't think so. I think you're having a problem comprehending the difference in a president saying something stupid and something dangerous and deadly. That's a you problem. "A lot of people are saying" isn't the kind of BS you say during a deadly pandemic. But you go ahead and keep defending it.

George Washington
John Adams
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
James Monroe
John Quincy Adams
Andrew Jackson
Martin Van Buren
William Henry Harrison
John Tyler
James K. Polk
Zachary Taylor
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
James Buchanan
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Johnson
Ulysses S. Grant
Rutherford B. Hayes
James A. Garfield
Chester A. Arthur
Benjamin Harrison
Grover Cleveland
William McKinley
Theodore Roosevelt

No vaccine regulations, anybody could make and sell a a vaccine. All presidents promoted smallpox inoculation.

And smallpox was wiped out. So what medications did those presidents recommend again during a deadly pandemic? Obviously you didn't understand the question.

It. was. a. joke.

H1N1 - Obama 2009

What unapproved medication did Obama recommend for that?

careful. facts are getting in the way of emotions

Trump didn't start talking about HQ until it was already very far along in the process of approval by the FDA for emergency use.

Trump first mentioned it on March 21 and on March 28th the FDA approved it.

The FDA was not being pressured, they knew it was going to be approved on Match 20th ad it just was a paperwork thing by the 21st.

FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems

Does not affect FDA-approved uses for malaria, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis

https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...ine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or

The Dangers of Using Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin for Preventing or Treating COVID-19

https://scdhec.gov/covid19/dangers-...ermectin-preventing-or-treating-covid-19

Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine for COVID-19: Drug Safety Communication - FDA Cautions Against Use Outside of the Hospital Setting or a Clinical Trial Due to Risk of Heart Rhythm Problems

https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-...y-communication-fda-cautions-against-use

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Revokes Emergency Use Authorization for Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine June 15, 20

And that sure didn't last long. He either suggested it before it was approved or he didn't. And once the FDA looked into it a little further, they changed course right away. Let's not pretend the FDA's hand wasn't pressured into approving it in the first place.

again... the FDA still made the decision to approve it. Trump mentioned it once it was a week from approval. This was no different than any of the other shots that Pfizer J&J etc were initially approved for emergency use and he mentioned prior to their approval.

HQ didn't last long because people were doing dumb things like self-medicating as if it were tide pods and people were using it outside of the hospital.

Well, the smallpox vaccine was originally just taking pus from the inflicted or dead and jabbing that into a cut on your arm. And that disgusting idea was high tech for the times, so there's that. Imagine a president telling Fate what he had to do to get rid of his gonorrhea... He probably wouldn't be as on board with that as he is sticking a UV light up his arse, drinking bleach, or taking a malaria medicine that has never been proven to treat covid.

You missin' SuperBrown, bro?

Is he gone?

We are both thinking people, I'd rather spar with you here and there because we can still get along elsewhere. It's much more fun to debate when both sides are willing to admit when they are wrong. Arguing with the brain dead is just exhausting.

So trump was promoting a medication for Covid that had not yet been approved. Thanks for that confirmation. And no, look again. It was repealed from being approved because of damaging side effects. People abuse all sorts of medications and they are still not recalled from approval by the FDA because people abuse them. That's ridiculous.

Fact. It was approved by the FDA for emergency use.
Fact. Trump made comments 1 week before it was approved for emergency use.
Fact. The FDA messed up and recalled the approval for emergency use.
Fact. the FDA has and does recall medications because people abuse them.

FDA requests removal of Opana ER for risks related to abuse
www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-requests-removal-opana-er-risks-related-abuse

FWIW, I think you're probably right here. Anecdotally, I was hearing about people trying to stock up in hydroxychloroquine to use outside hospital or Dr. Risk/benefit probably tipped back the other direction due to benefits not being as good as once assumed and risks going up because people were smarter than the doctors.

You once again have helped prove trump was endorsing the medication before it was ever approved. It has been absolutely been shown that it was recalled from approval because of negative side effects and not misuse. Now explain why Opioids are still on the market if abuse is such a huge issue? And without a big pharma conspiracy theory please.

How am I the one moving the goal posts? You're the one who keeps proving my point. Trump was pimping this medication before it was approved. It was recalled from approval because of negative side effects like I said instead of the abuse as you claimed.

Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine for COVID-19: Drug Safety Communication - FDA Cautions Against Use Outside of the Hospital Setting or a Clinical Trial Due to Risk of Heart Rhythm Problems

https://www.fda.gov/safety/medical-...y-communication-fda-cautions-against-use

Opioids are the most abused medications on the market and have been for decades now yet they are still prescribed every day.

Trying to accuse me of moving the goal posts while you're the one moving the goal posts won't work on anyone but the foolish.

This is what moving the goalpost really looks like.

I'll tell you what... some of this COVID stuff you simply can't make up.

Going on a cruise after Thanksgiving. Just booked two weeks ago and they've already changed protocol three times lol.

Bottom line, being unvaccinated (who gives a crap if I've had COVID twice), I'll have to be tested before boarding. Anybody who is vaccinated just shows their card and jumps on the ship -- regardless of the fact that they may have had the jab nearly three years prior.

Here's the best part: All I need to do is take a picture of the negative test while holding it... or a pic of it on a piece of paper with my name written on it. Seems legit. If I were one of the paranoid travelers, I would be more concerned about that protocol (never mind the fact that everyone should probably test) than the fact that there will be unvaccinated onboard. But hey, whatever, as long as they look like they're "toeing the line" with narrative, all is well.


So I send for my remaining free tests from the gubment... I get a bag with different tests from different manufacturers. Must be sweeping out the back of the trailer or picking them out of the bargain bin at Dollar Tree. We'll probably run out again right before Christmas.

Be careful Fate. My wife's cousin and his gf both recently picked up a nasty case of COVID from a cruise.

I will. I'm hopeful that things remain rather tame through the TG holiday.

If anyone with a brain was in charge they would test everybody before they boarded the ship... 4000 passengers and crew, with only about 25% being tested means there will be more than a handful carrying the virus in an early stage when we leave the port... or maybe even already have it and know it... and just don't care. Seems like we've become allergic to common sense.

Most cruise lines are refunding all monies if you test positive within 10 days of the cruise. I'm sure they're pretty excited about not having to test 75% and offer refunds; which equates to them knowing damn well people will be boarding with the virus. Only three of us will have to test, but it still seems like a crapshoot that all ten board the ship.

Cruises, and air travel are the most likely places to get COVID. I found out the hard way… airplane. My ex wife came back from a cruise with COVID.

Let’s just say that air travel and cruises are risky. Too many people in tight quarters.

FWIW, we went on a cruise in June with my in-laws. No incidents.

The President was “promoting” a medication that received an EUA a few days later. My guess is that the President received some advance notice of the coming approval. No idea why that bothers anyone. Just as I have no idea why anyone is bothered by dr oz encouraging the FDA to initiate clinical trials on hydroxy. That is how we learn what works and what does not.

I’m sure your concerns with dr oz and the President are that people who heard him “promoting” hydroxy” might use it instead of asking their doctor for one of the therapeutics that had been proven safe and effective against the China virus. Oh, wait, there were no therapeutics at that time that were proven safe and effective. None. So as we do any time we encounter new disease causing organisms we start throwing things at it until we find something that works. According to British journal Lancet there had been some early small trials that showed some promise and since we had decades of experience with hydroxy being safe there was no reason not to try it. I guess my point is that anyone who gets bent out of shape about the President and hydroxy are just looking for an excuse to get bent out of shape. And any old thing will do.

On another topic, while I am never surprised by anything springing forth from the Peoples Republic of California I did take a long look at this new law out there awaiting the governor’s signature. I have not read it but from what I have heard it empowers the state to pull the medical license of any physician who communicates anything to his/her patient about Covid that does not comport with the current orthodoxy. Wow!!! Think about it folks! If that law had been in effect 1-2 years ago a doc could have lost her license for telling a patient that the vaccine would not keep him from getting Covid, that the vaccine would not prevent him from spreading Covid, that natural immunity was not as effective or long lasting as vaccine “immunity”. She would have lost her license for telling patients things that were perfectly accurate but that did not comply with current orthodoxy. Hmm! I wonder how many pieces of current orthodoxy will be proven wrong down the road and how many docs will have lost their license for disputing them.

On the bright side, I look for the enactment of this law to result in a migration of great docs to my home state, the Free State of Florida. Should improve our health care. Thanks Cali!

I'm sure nobody seems to care it was found that none of that BS worked and was pulled from being used for Covid either. Sure, Trump knew it would be approved before the FDA even knew they were going to approve it. Yeah, like that happened. Let me tell you, trump opened his mouth and doctors were flooded with calls. Since the drug was approved for Malaria the FDA didn't think it would do any harm to approve it for emergency use. What the FDA didn't say is if it would actually help with Covid. Which it didn't. But you see, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum. Covid weakened the lungs and in conjunction the heart so much that the side effects, including heart arrhythmia, (an irregular heartbeat) far outweighed handing this stuff out like candy so they pulled it very quickly.

You know, you would think that after these medications have been debunked as having any benefit for Covid for so long now, People would just admit it was nothing more than quackery. But no, still this BS continues.

You are a walking, talking advertisement for “ visceral and uncontrolled anger”. If I have ever encountered a person on a message board for whom “going postal” seemed like a real possibility, it would be you.

lmao It is what it is. For people who hated being PC so much they sure don't seem to like it when people address them in a non PC way. I warned them to be careful what they wished for. They didn't listen so now they are getting what they asked for.

I don't consider any of the BS people post worthy of visceral and uncontrolled anger. Just a dose of brutal honesty. And the funniest part of it is, many of the very people they vote for and support say things much worse than I do. So it has nothing to do with what I'm saying, it's about who's saying it. I'm just not some far left liberal that's going to kiss your ass. Sorry if that bothers you. I was raied by a former Army Master sergeant. Not some bean sprout eating tree hugger.

Did you get some impression I was talking to you??

Yes I did. My mistake. I did find it confusing because I couldn't imagine what you saw in my post that would illicit such a response. Once again, my mistake.

No problem. While I disagree with almost everything you say, you seem way calmer and more reasonable than a couple of folks on here.

Pit, I think it is safe to say we have almost no common ground on this subject, but here is one final thought. From whom did these two quotes originate.

“…….an entire new disease nobody had ever heard of took time to figure out and that it was a learn as you go process.”

“….Trump encountered a virus never seen before. We had no treatment regimens. We had no vaccines. We were flying blind and flying without instruments.”

Now, Pit, those say very much the same thing. Different words but same thought. And they are both right on the money! Very accurate! And they come from you and me who totally agree on this point. But for some reason you do not apply your own thinking to President Trump. Those quotes describe the boat he was in perfectly.

Stupidity never cured anything.



Now if you wish to discuss some off shoot, crackpot idea in private with health experts, fine. But to just throw out this kind of garbage on national TV, Houston, we have a problem. What you seem to be proposing is that trump, who has no medical background, knows nothing about viral infections, go on TV and say a bunch of nutty BS seems to be some acceptable response. Yeah..... no.

j/c:

NYC fires another 850 teachers and teaching aides after they failed to get the COVID vaccine by September 5 deadline - bringing total to 1,950 terminated by department of education since vaccine mandate took effect

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...g-aides-failed-COVID-vaccine-Sept-5.html

What happened to "my body, my choice"?

Thought the pandemic was over according to our prez.... should end all these mandates right?

The SCOTUS has determined that's not really a thing.

Covid-19 pandemic is over in the US - Joe Biden


President Joe Biden has declared the pandemic over in the US, even as the number of Americans who have died from Covid continues to rise.

"We're still doing a lot of work on it. But the pandemic is over," said Mr Biden in a television interview.

Statistics show that over 400 Americans on average are dying from the virus each day.

The head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said last week that the end of the pandemic was "in sight".

In an interview with CBS programme 60 Minutes aired on Sunday, Mr Biden said the situation was rapidly improving, even though a lot of work was being done to control the virus.

The interview - aired over the weekend - was partly filmed on the floor of the Detroit Auto Show, where the president gestured towards the crowds.

"If you notice, no-one's wearing masks," he said. "Everybody seems to be in pretty good shape... I think it's changing."

But administration officials told US media on Monday that the comments did not signal a change in policy and there were no plans to lift the ongoing Covid-19 public health emergency.

In August, US officials extended the public health emergency, which has been in place since January 2020, through to 13 October.

To date, more than one million Americans have died with Covid.

Data from Johns Hopkins University shows that the seven-day average of deaths currently stands at over 400, with more than 3,000 dead in the past week alone.

In January 2021, by comparison, more than 23,000 people were reported dead with the virus over a single week-long span. About 65% of the total US population is considered fully vaccinated.

Certain federal vaccine mandates remain in place in the US - including on healthcare workers, military personnel and some non-US citizens entering the country by plane.

Top Republicans criticised the president's remarks, with former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo tweeting: "Biden now says 'the pandemic is over' as he's kicking tens of thousands of healthy soldiers out of the military with his COVID vaccine mandate."

Public health officials have expressed cautious optimism in recent weeks that the world is edging towards a pandemic recovery, but continue to urge people to be careful.

On Monday, Dr Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, acknowledged the situation had improved.

But in comments made at a Washington DC think tank, he said the daily death rate remained "unacceptably high".

"We are not where we need to be if we're going to be able to 'live with the virus'," Dr Fauci said.

He also cautioned that new Covid-19 variants could still emerge, especially in the coming winter months.

The US recently authorised new vaccines that match the version of the Omicron variant currently dominant in the country, with federal health officials asking Americans to keep their jabs up-to-date.

Last week, WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said that the world has "never been in a better position to end the pandemic".

"We are not there yet," he said. "But the end is in sight."

Covid-19 also continues to have a significant impact on the US economy, with the National Bureau of Economic Research reporting last week that Covid-related disease had slashed the US workforce by about 500,000 people.

Mr Biden said he believes that the pandemic has had a "profound" impact on the psyche of Americans.

"That has changed everything... people's attitudes about themselves, their families, about the state of the nation, about the state of their communities," he said.

"It's been a very difficult time. Very difficult."

More than 6.5 million people have died since the beginning of the pandemic around the world. The US has had the highest death toll, followed by India and Brazil.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62959089

Not to mention that accidental pregnancies are not highly contagious nor do they kill people (not some cells) who have BEEN BORN AND LIVED REAL LIFE.