This can't make Biden and Lord Fauci very happy...
TSA will no longer enforce travel mask mandate after a federal judge strikes it down Updated April 18, 2022 6:58 PM ET
The federal travel mask mandate will not be implemented as the Biden administration reviews a Florida federal judge's ruling against it.
"The agencies are reviewing the decision and assessing potential next steps. In the meantime, today's court decision means CDC's public transportation masking order is not in effect at this time," according to a Biden administration official.
"Therefore, TSA will not enforce its Security Directives and Emergency Amendment requiring mask use on public transportation and transportation hubs at this time."
U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle ruled that the federal mask mandate on planes, trains, buses and other modes of public transportation is "unlawful."
Mizelle wrote in a summary filed Monday that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had exceeded its authority and failed to follow proper rulemaking procedures.
In a 59-page ruling, Mizelle argues that the mandate violates the Administrative Procedure Act, as the agency failed to prove its decision regarding implementing the mandate.
The lawsuit was filed in July 2021 by two plaintiffs and the Health Freedom Defense Fund.
"The court concludes that the mask mandate exceeds the CDC's statutory authority and violates the procedures required for agency rulemaking under the APA," the judge wrote.
The White House called a federal judge's decision against the CDC mandate for public transportation "disappointing," but said the administration's response was still under review.
"This is obviously a disappointing decision," White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters Monday. "The CDC continues recommending wearing a mask in public transit."
"As you know, this just came out this afternoon so right now the Department of Homeland Security, who would be implementing, and the CDC are reviewing the decision," Psaki said. "And of course, the Department of Justice would make any determination about litigation."
Just last week, the agency extended the transportation mask mandate (which had been set to expire originally on April 18) through May 3 — allowing officials to take more time to study the BA.2 subvariant of COVID-19.
"We do have upward trends of infections. CDC is responding to the data, and it's implementing the measure it has the authority to do," said James Hodge, a public health law professor at Arizona State University in an interview with NPR.
Last month, governors from 21 states sued the Biden administration to end the federal public transportation mask mandate, arguing that the continued enforcement "harms the states" and interferes with some local laws.
The filing came days after airline CEOs called on President Biden to drop the mandate.
"President Biden's shortsighted, heavy-handed and unlawful travel policies are frustrating travelers and causing chaos on public transportation," Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody, who is leading the states' effort, said in a statement. "It's long past time to alleviate some of the pressure on travelers and those working in the travel industry by immediately ending Biden's unlawful public transportation mandates."
The mask-wearing requirement had been initially imposed in early 2021, shortly after President Joe Biden took office in an effort to slow the spread of COVID-19.
As a nurse it doesn’t make me happy. As someone that travels frequently it doesn’t make me happy. I have a business trip to Fort Lauderdale and another to Denver planned in the next month or so. I assure you I’ll be wearing a KN95. I haven’t been sick since 2019. It’s been great not dealing with colds or other such airborne nastiness… let alone COVID… which I’ve seen far too much over the past two plus years.
I guess if people want to pile into a winged Petri dish and sit next to some random stranger breathing on them it’s now their choice. I know what my choice will be.
As a nurse it doesn’t make me happy. As someone that travels frequently it doesn’t make me happy. I have a business trip to Fort Lauderdale and another to Denver planned in the next month or so. I assure you I’ll be wearing a KN95. I haven’t been sick since 2019. It’s been great not dealing with colds or other such airborne nastiness… let alone COVID… which I’ve seen far too much over the past two plus years.
I guess if people want to pile into a winged Petri dish and sit next to some random stranger breathing on them it’s now their choice. I know what my choice will be.
It's always been your choice. I doubt you have been wearing a mask your whole life.
You’re right. After being catching a nasty cold while vacationing in Thailand, having it ruin part of our vacation, my girlfriend and I decided to travel with masks. This is very common in Asia. Those that don’t feel well wear them when traveling as a courtesy for those around them. From now on we’ll be wearing masks. Why risk having a vacation, or travel in general, disrupted by illness? People are gross. I no longer want to breath their shared air.
Hopefully the airlines will MANDATE them. Maybe somebody could just superglue them to the faces of all the GOPer typhoid Mary(s). Did you ever think you would see so many grown ass adults snivel over something as simple as wearing a mask? Sickeningly pathetic.
I’ve traveled quite a bit this past year. You can spot them from across the airport gate waiting area. Mask around their chin. I’ve seen so many ‘manly men’ whining like little girls at airline employees. It’s a sad display of American selfishness and narcissism.
This can't make Biden and Lord Fauci very happy...
You might not be very happy if you become infected and sick with Covid and/or make others "sick"...sick enough to die from Covid.
I've seen enough to know that those deciding not to take the necessary precautions are taking a risk that they might regret, should they become infected and then infect their own family members and friends.
Hmmm, well, I guess there are a few things to examine... most notably; risk and necessary precautions.
Average Risk: less than .08% (that's not 8%, that's 8/100 of 1%)
That's also risk spread over the entire life of the pandemic, including millions and millions of deaths before the vaccines. That's also "average" risk, very healthy people would shoulder less risk, very sick people -- much higher risk.
With most people vaccinated, boosted, having already had the virus, or all possible combinations of the aforementioned; risk is much, much lower at this stage of the pandemic.
Finally, you're comparing risk of your worst case scenario when wearing a mask (of which well over 90% of these masks are, and have proven to be, ineffective) vs not wearing a mask.
It seems to me, given the above, necessary precautions should be (and have been, in most venues, for many months) a personal choice given personal risk factors.
Is it "worth the risk"... to me? I wouldn't be afraid to board a plane with or without the mask mandate... I would wear a mask just because it's not that hard and still seems like common sense to me.
Hopefully the airlines will MANDATE them. Maybe somebody could just superglue them to the faces of all the GOPer typhoid Mary(s). Did you ever think you would see so many grown ass adults snivel over something as simple as wearing a mask? Sickeningly pathetic.
Speak of the devil… another trash sack in a suite… Bill O’Reilly being a human douchesicle, while wearing his mask under his chin, angrily talking in the face of an airport employee. Threatening his job.
Kens and Karens. Looks like the right is embracing cancel culture, only they call it mAh RiGhTs. Crying about everything seems to be a rite for GOPers.
With most people vaccinated, boosted, having already had the virus, or all possible combinations of the aforementioned; risk is much, much lower at this stage of the pandemic.
Fate...we can only hope that the above scenario is accurate...that most people are vaccinated and boosted.
Do I trust folks who are perfect strangers to tell the truth about their vaccination status...HELL NO..!
The only people I trust to tell the truth about their vaccination status are my immediate family and a few friends who are not caught up in making some political statement by defying government recommendations.
Trying to come up with an accurate number (percentage) to measure the risk involved for those who decide to take a chance and not wear a mask..is simply a guess, imo. We are forced to rely on folks to be honest about their vaccination status.
You are correct, it becomes a personal choice to wear or not wear a mask and all of us will need to answer the question...is it worth the risk ?
IMO, we will see an increase in the number of hospitalizations due to increased Covid infections.
We don't have to "hope" as far as that statement goes -- it is FACT. I think you're glossing over the last part, however, "having already had the virus".
Natural immunity has always been better and longer enduring than vaccination. It took our CDC two years to admit it, but even they finally did. Before that, they ignored proof from all over the globe and swept it under the rug. So, the numbers don't lie... Upwards of 80% (probably closer to 90%) of people's bodies has seen either vaccination or the virus itself.
You touch on the real problem with something like airports and travel... TRUST.
You trust that each passenger doesn't have a fever. You trust that each is honest about symptoms. You trust that they haven't traveled abroad. You trust that they haven't been in large gatherings or been in close contact with someone with the virus.
At that point it doesn't much matter if you trust their vaccination status. They're part of the 80-90%.
Given all those variables, does a mask fix everything and eliminate all risk??
A proper mask CAN pretty much fix everything and eliminate almost all risk. If it weren’t the case I’d have had COVID multiple times over the past two years. I’ve been in front of active COVID almost every month, often times multiple times a week, since this pandemic started. I wear an N95 when I see my patients. If I hadn’t worn a mask, or wore just a cheap cloth mask, how do you think that would have gone for me? Proper masks work. Period. You’re correct in this, biggest issue is getting people to act responsibly to obtain, and wear correctly, proper masks. Even if they were KN95’s that can easily be found on Amazon or a ton of other online shops. When you’ve got idiots wearing any mask as a chin strap you’ll never win the battle. It’s not the masks that are the problem. It’s the people.
I don't disagree, but that's a different argument altogether. "N95" has never been part of the mask mandate anywhere, so a "proper" mask has no bearing on airport mask mandates.
Once again I agree… it’s on the people to do the right thing. It’s widely known that KN95s or N95s are the best option… yet some people still buy lesser masks. I never understood it. Still don’t get it. Just get the right masks and wear them. How hard is it?
from what I understand only a small fraction of the country is now in that 3-4 month window of being vaccinated (maybe 8-10%) since it wears off after about 4 months.
Maybe they need to examine their border policy is what they need to do. Don't tell me to wear a mask while letting in over a few million illegals who just walk in like they own the joint and expect border states to manage the problem.
Very true. And that's where this pandemic shifts to personal responsibility weighed against "fear". It's become increasingly evident that immunity and sense of safety through vaccination is a three month proposition. I don't think many Americans are willing to "jab" every three months. Most will watch the radar for the next strain and act accordingly, which really, is probably the best strategy.
I'm going to get the fourth jab next week, and happy to do it. COVID would almost definitely be a death sentence for me. So, I don't mind the personal decision a bit. I don't know that I will do it indefinitely, but I will do what I have to avoid covid if possible.
That common sense was lost on way too many... they and their families learned the hard way. Stupid. Sadly, I know more than my fair share of those they left behind. Stay diligent, my friend.
I've been vaccinated and boosted so at this point I could care less about masks and won't be wearing one.
If someone else wants to then they can. However, under no circumstances should anyone be mandated to wear one. I can't find any supportable grounds for that at this point.
I'm going to get the fourth jab next week, and happy to do it. COVID would almost definitely be a death sentence for me. So, I don't mind the personal decision a bit. I don't know that I will do it indefinitely, but I will do what I have to avoid covid if possible.
I have been meaning to do the same. I have some time today and nothing planned for tomorrow if I get some symptoms like I did after the 1st booster. I may run by CVS a little later this morning.
Then again, my wife is in Florida for her mothers 95th this week. Maybe it's best to wait until she gets back, just in case.
We don't have to "hope" as far as that statement goes -- it is FACT. I think you're glossing over the last part, however, "having already had the virus".
Natural immunity has always been better and longer enduring than vaccination. It took our CDC two years to admit it, but even they finally did. Before that, they ignored proof from all over the globe and swept it under the rug. So, the numbers don't lie... Upwards of 80%
If a person gets Covid and recovers with what they hope is 'natural immunity'...it doesn't mean they can not get Covid again. That goes for those who build their immunity via a shot sequence and boosted as well. The hope is an individual builds enough immunity to overcome another Covid episode with a much lower probability of getting seriously sick or dying.
Quote
So, the numbers don't lie... Upwards of 80% (probably closer to 90%) of people's bodies has seen either vaccination or the virus itself.
fate...I did a search to find evidence that backs up your claim above (80-90%) and was unable to locate information to back up your claim. Maybe you have a link to an article to back up the claim..?
Here's the problem with relying on 'natural immunity'...first you have to get yourself SICK with Covid and hope and pray that you get so sick that you land in the hospital or pray that you DO NOT DIE from Covid.
I know of two cases where individuals went the 'natural immunity' route and it turned out badly for both.
...one situation, relatives in Texas who refused to get shots took the risk that their immune systems were strong enough to overcome Covid. The entire family and some friends got sick with Covid, with some going to the hospital to get help to overcome their infection. They ran into the issue of limited availability of bed space and were treated on an outpatient basis and sent home to fight Covid. NO ONE DIED, thank God..but they were fortunate, because it is a fact that some who do take the risk lose the battle and pay with their lives.
...a second situation..a young couple where she did go through the Covid shot series soon after it became available but he said he did not have time to do so. He got sick with Covid...very sick...intensive care in the local hospital who transferred him to Columbus where they determined this 20 something young man needed a LUNG TRANSPLANT to have any chance of surviving his Covid infection.
Columbus located a donor, performed the transplant and he "survived" and continues to recover with the support of his young wife, who found the time to get her Covid shots.
True cases that I did not need to rely on to make my own decision about getting the Covid shot series and boosted.
You see, the problem with developing "natural immunity"...you first have to "risk your life" to develop that form of immunity.
When it comes to TRUST...I will continue to trust my own judgement and not rely on trusting the word of perfect strangers.
Bro, first, I'm not going to search for a link, and you don't really need one for evidence. But IIRC, it was a study by Johns Hopkins and stated that somewhere around 83 or 84% had remnants of the virus in their bodies. Is that hard to believe in any way? It's not for me... 70% have been vaccinated and millions have been sick. I wouldn't have a hard time believing 90%. If you don't believe it -- throw it out.
Second... I feel like I'm having this senseless argument again where someone responds as if I'm advocating getting sick with covid... "going the natural immunity route". There were over 20 million cases in the US well before a vaccination was available. Then we made it available by age group as more got sick. There were plenty "riding the fence" saying "I still don't know anyone with covid!"
It's not like everyone sat at the table with Morpheus and played "blue pill / red pill"... for many, life (and covid) just happened. For those that already had covid, many trusted their own body's defense system over stacking a vaccination on top. Do you see where I'm coming from?
Portland, Just so I am clear, you have been caring for covid patients for a couple of years. Doing an outstanding job I am sure. Despite being in the room with known covid + patients you have stayed healthy by wearing your N-95 mask. That is great!! You are wearing your N-95 on the plane for your trip and you are frightened by the fact that these apparently healthy people are not being forced to wear a mask, and it seems you think they should be forced to wear a mask. That seems a trifle odd to me. You have been kept safe in that hospital room with the known covid patients why won’t you be kept safe on the plane??
Also, just a point of clarification. Are you saying you are going to wear an N-95 mask the rest of your life so you don’t catch a cold. Wow!! That seems more than a trifle odd to me.
Look if you really want to be safe go with a hazmat suit. That will keep you safe. In lieu of that, strap on your N-95, quit complaining, get on the plane and have a great flight.
Mac , just google study of natural immunity after covid done in Israel. It was huge, maybe 1million patients. It showed natural immunity was way way stronger than vaccine immunity, maybe 27 times more effective, and it lasted much longer. Are you gonna get a booster every 3 months? When that study was done, I think they had patients with strong antibody presence 18 months after having the virus.
There are multiple other studies showing the same thing. I had the virus over a year ago and my antibody levels are still high. Btw, the young fellow you cited having a lung transplant had neither had the vaccine nor had the disease so he had no immunity , natural or otherwise.
Yes. Both me and my girlfriend (we live/own a home together) are nurses that are regularly dealing with COVID patients. We’ve both stayed healthy by being diligent in our usage of proper masks. Both at work and in public. We haven’t eaten in a restaurant (we do order take out fairly regularly), been in anyone’s home, nor allowed anyone in ours since COVID began. What you see as fear we see as our civic duty. If I get sick I can’t help my patients. If I get sick I can run the risk of getting my other clinical staff coworkers sick. Rendering our office unable to serve our community. If I get sick it’s likely that my GF gets sick, or vice versa, hurting both our offices in the ways described above. Frankly, if I get sick I run the risk of feeling like crap… who wants that? I’m over being sick. What this pandemic has offered me is two full years of health. No colds. No flu. Nothing. It’s been wonderful. As to everyone else… look, I’m not big on mandates. Personally I wish everyone else took their civic duty seriously and got proper masks and wore them diligently when in public. I saw a guy recently at the Orlando airport giving a gate worker a hard time about keeping his mask up. He was a muscle bound, chin strap mask douche. He raised his voice multiple times. At one point stating “I’m not afraid of the virus” or some similar tripe. I looked around at the gate waiting area. So many families traveling with their elderly loved ones. Yet all that douche could see was himself. He’s wasn’t afraid… but he couldn’t look around and see those that he could effect. … well here we are. As long as people like that walk amongst us, I guess mandates are needed. Airplanes are tightly packed Petri dishes. People are poor with their health hygiene. I’m done dealing with it. As I said, I was in SE Asia in 2017, both my GF and I ended up with a nasty cold with a mild fever after flying back to Thailand from Cambodia. It was the beach part of our vacation. We spent 2 of the 5 days there laying in bed feeling awful. Never again. Yes, I’ll be wearing a kn95 on planes from now on. No reason not to.
And I support fully your right to do so. Since that N-95 should keep you healthy no need to worry about other folks who may feel differently. Be healthy and thanks for your patent care. I spent 47 years in an inner city hospital and I know how hard health care work is.
Mac , just google study of natural immunity after covid done in Israel. It was huge, maybe 1million patients. It showed natural immunity was way way stronger than vaccine immunity, maybe 27 times more effective, and it lasted much longer. Are you gonna get a booster every 3 months? When that study was done, I think they had patients with strong antibody presence 18 months after having the virus.
There are multiple other studies showing the same thing. I had the virus over a year ago and my antibody levels are still high. Btw, the young fellow you cited having a lung transplant had neither had the vaccine nor had the disease so he had no immunity , natural or otherwise.
Those and other studies were simply swept under the rug by our CDC. For no good reason, imo. I think the audacity to ignore studies involving millions of people only strengthened the resolve by many here that Covid response was a political narrative as much as a health initiative.
There were patients who were sick with the original SARS virus in 2003 with a strong immunity to covid 18 years later.
Portland, Just so I am clear, you have been caring for covid patients for a couple of years. Doing an outstanding job I am sure. Despite being in the room with known covid + patients you have stayed healthy by wearing your N-95 mask. That is great!! You are wearing your N-95 on the plane for your trip and you are frightened by the fact that these apparently healthy people are not being forced to wear a mask, and it seems you think they should be forced to wear a mask. That seems a trifle odd to me. You have been kept safe in that hospital room with the known covid patients why won’t you be kept safe on the plane??
Also, just a point of clarification. Are you saying you are going to wear an N-95 mask the rest of your life so you don’t catch a cold. Wow!! That seems more than a trifle odd to me.
Look if you really want to be safe go with a hazmat suit. That will keep you safe. In lieu of that, strap on your N-95, quit complaining, get on the plane and have a great flight.
CUT THE BS. Portland is a healthcare professional, of course he is serious about wearing a mask. Do you have even the remotest clue of what it would take to do the crap he has been doing for two years? I seriously doubt your ass would have the mental and physical fortitude to do what he has done. You should be thanking him instead of shamelessly mocking him because of your ridiculous Qanon style beliefs. Vile.
Mac , just google study of natural immunity after covid done in Israel. It was huge, maybe 1million patients. It showed natural immunity was way way stronger than vaccine immunity, maybe 27 times more effective, and it lasted much longer. Are you gonna get a booster every 3 months? When that study was done, I think they had patients with strong antibody presence 18 months after having the virus.
There are multiple other studies showing the same thing. I had the virus over a year ago and my antibody levels are still high. Btw, the young fellow you cited having a lung transplant had neither had the vaccine nor had the disease so he had no immunity , natural or otherwise.
Well if Doctor “I Googled it” says it's true, it must be true. SMDH. Do you hear what you sound like?
Mac , just google study of natural immunity after covid done in Israel. It was huge, maybe 1million patients. It showed natural immunity was way way stronger than vaccine immunity, maybe 27 times more effective, and it lasted much longer. Are you gonna get a booster every 3 months? When that study was done, I think they had patients with strong antibody presence 18 months after having the virus.
There are multiple other studies showing the same thing. I had the virus over a year ago and my antibody levels are still high. Btw, the young fellow you cited having a lung transplant had neither had the vaccine nor had the disease so he had no immunity , natural or otherwise.
Those and other studies were simply swept under the rug by our CDC. For no good reason, imo. I think the audacity to ignore studies involving millions of people only strengthened the resolve by many here that Covid response was a political narrative as much as a health initiative.
There were patients who were sick with the original SARS virus in 2003 with a strong immunity to covid 18 years later.
And this is how misinformation is spread kids! smh.
Mac , just google study of natural immunity after covid done in Israel. It was huge, maybe 1million patients. It showed natural immunity was way way stronger than vaccine immunity, maybe 27 times more effective, and it lasted much longer. Are you gonna get a booster every 3 months? When that study was done, I think they had patients with strong antibody presence 18 months after having the virus.
There are multiple other studies showing the same thing. I had the virus over a year ago and my antibody levels are still high. Btw, the young fellow you cited having a lung transplant had neither had the vaccine nor had the disease so he had no immunity , natural or otherwise.
Those and other studies were simply swept under the rug by our CDC. For no good reason, imo. I think the audacity to ignore studies involving millions of people only strengthened the resolve by many here that Covid response was a political narrative as much as a health initiative.
There were patients who were sick with the original SARS virus in 2003 with a strong immunity to covid 18 years later.
And this is how misinformation is spread kids! smh.
Oh, cry me a river, snowflake. Any morsel of information you don't like is misinformation. All of that is FACT, so buzz off.
Only you don't give actual information. No sources to back up what you are saying. That's the only way to know who did these studies, if they were limited and what the actual data behind the studies were.
So I don't think it's so much about actual information as it is you just spouting things out that nobody knows if it's information or not. I mean you're not still talking about all that crazy BS about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are you?
No. At least not officially. I did get sick in February of 2020. Very sick. As did my girlfriend. I had been in and out of a local nursing home multiple times in the weeks leading up to them having a massive outbreak. It was the first facility in the city to get hammered by it. They ended up getting shut down by the government. At the time no one knew what COVID was. There was no test. I just stayed home until I felt well enough to back to work. By that time we were all in PPE. I’ve been masked at work since.
Only you don't give actual information. No sources to back up what you are saying. That's the only way to know who did these studies, if they were limited and what the actual data behind the studies were.
So I don't think it's so much about actual information as it is you just spouting things out that nobody knows if it's information or not. I mean you're not still talking about all that crazy BS about hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are you?
Well, Pitt, I've never mentioned ANYTHING about either treatment. In fact, if you find any evidence of that b.s. you just blatantly LIED about, I'll quit this place forever.
Furthermore, I have no idea what hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin have to do with anything I posted... But that's par for the course, isn't it? Pit and his never-ending, goalpost moving, verbal vomit... in digital form.
Go make 500 more posts about 22 women, you're not qualified to speak with the adults here.
I look forward to the day when you can actually add something intelligent and meaningful to the conversation. Til then we just have to tolerate your ignorant drivel.
Those and other studies were simply swept under the rug by our CDC. For no good reason, imo. I think the audacity to ignore studies involving millions of people only strengthened the resolve by many here that Covid response was a political narrative as much as a health initiative.
So what studies ARE you talking about? You see, just throwing out vague, blanket statements such as those holds no meaning.
Quote
There were patients who were sick with the original SARS virus in 2003 with a strong immunity to covid 18 years later.
Do you mind giving a link to your source.? Like I said, just throwing out blanket statements with no sources is nothing more than an accusation at that point.
Quote
you're not qualified to speak with the adults here.
If that's true it certainly would not prevent me speaking with you. I'm sorry you have a problem doing the math on that one.
It says hospitalizations are down 2% over past 14 days. Was that the point you were trying to make?
I'm sorry you don't understand how the spread of a virus works. It's up in 20 states and as a virus spreads that increase in turn will spread to other states.That's how it's worked with every new strain. We've been through this so many times before I thought you would have understood that by now.
Those studies were brought up on this board by many. So asking if that's still what you are referring to is a legitimate question. And you still refuse to explain what you were referring to. I understand.
Cold you really need to take seriously the advice of Abraham Lincoln. Better to remain quiet and thought the fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt.
Quick side note… COVID is hammering my friend group right now. I have a buddy (vaccinated) that leads a band. They played Saturday night to a full house. He’s now tested positive. As have many of my friends that attended. Unfortunately one of those infected is my artistic partner and his wife (also vaccinated). He and I work together on the weekends. I worked with him last Saturday, before the show. I won’t be working with him this weekend, which sucks because we have a major project due to be on a truck heading for the east coast in 3 weeks. Not working this weekend is going to put us up against it to get it done on time.
Everyone that I’m aware of is ‘okay’ right now… if having a fever, body aches, fatigue, and congestion is ‘okay’.
I travel with my art buddy mid next month. I guess I won’t have to worry about being around him as he’ll have a fair amount of immunity built in.
Bro, first, I'm not going to search for a link, and you don't really need one for evidence. But IIRC, it was a study by Johns Hopkins and stated that somewhere around 83 or 84% had remnants of the virus in their bodies. Is that hard to believe in any way? It's not for me... 70% have been vaccinated and millions have been sick. I wouldn't have a hard time believing 90%. If you don't believe it -- throw it out.
Fate...I did that search and found this...
Fact Check: A Study Does NOT Find Vaccinated Patients Are 27 Times More Likely To Develop COVID Symptoms Than Unvaccinated
Does a study find vaccinated patients are 27 times more likely to develop COVID symptoms than unvaccinated? No, that's not true: The study, based on medical records of the Maccabi Health Service HMO in Israel, found that vaccinated patients are 27 times more likely to develop COVID symptoms than people who were infected with and recovered from COVID-19. Though "unvaccinated," they were people who had already recovered from a bout with SARS-CoV-2 and had some degree of natural immunity. That was the point of the study: comparing infection-induced immunity to vaccination-induced immunity.
The claim appeared as a video (archived here) where it was published on Instagram on September 13, 2021. It opened:
Study finds vaccinated patients 27 times more likely to develop COVID symptoms than unvaccinated
Social media users saw this:
(Source: Instagram screenshot taken on Wed Sept 15 18:20:29 2021 UTC)
The false claim was made by the OAN network in an article headline and in a video aired by the channel. They updated the headline on their website to say, "Study Finds Vaccinated Patients 27 Times More Likely To Develop COVID Symptoms Than People Who Recovered From COVID," but the article and video still are repeating the false claim.
At the 6:17 mark, the Instagram video repeats the false claim in the opening audio of the segment and in the chyron of the video. The video opens:
A new study involving tens-of-thousands of patients reveals fully vaccinated people are 27 times more likely to end up with COVID, COVID symptoms than those who have never had a vaccine. One America's Pearson Sharp has more.
The study does not say that vaccinated people are 27 times more likely to end up with COVID symptoms than those "who have never had a vaccine." It compares vaccinated people to people who previously were infected with COVID-19, meaning they had some degree of natural immunity, but who were not vaccinated. It does not compare them to people who were unvaccinated.
Science.org published an article explaining what the study said:
The new analysis relies on the database of Maccabi Healthcare Services, which enrolls about 2.5 million Israelis. The study, led by Tal Patalon and Sivan Gazit at KSM, the system's research and innovation arm, found in two analyses that never-infected people who were vaccinated in January and February were, in June, July, and the first half of August, six to 13 times more likely to get infected than unvaccinated people who were previously infected with the coronavirus. In one analysis, comparing more than 32,000 people in the health system, the risk of developing symptomatic COVID-19 was 27 times higher among the vaccinated, and the risk of hospitalization eight times higher.
Health care professionals continue to recommend people get the COVID-19 vaccine to ensure the greatest protection from the disease. The article continued:
No one in the study who got a new SARS-CoV-2 infection died--which prevented a comparison of death rates but is a clear sign that vaccines still offer a formidable shield against serious disease, even if not as good as natural immunity. Moreover, natural immunity is far from perfect. Although reinfections with SARS-CoV-2 are rare, and often asymptomatic or mild, they can be severe.
Lead Stories previously debunked the claim that the study proved vaccines are less effective than natural immunity here.
While the study does indicate people who survived infection with SARS-CoV-2 resisted the delta variant better than those who had been vaccinated, it also notes that people who have been infected and vaccinated fare best of all against reinfection or breakthrough infections and that risking infection without the vaccine means taking a higher risk of death from COVID-19 or lingering symptoms known as "Long Covid."
Fate...you can click the link above to access additional information and links.
Understand this...I don't give a rats ass about all the studies you can find, whether they are true or flat out FALSE...
...THE FACT REMAINS, anyone taking the route to develop their "natural immunity" by getting the Covid virus needs to realize they might get seriously sick or EVEN DIE if they get Covid. To develop the natural immunity you speak of the individual must also accept the risks that come with it, plus the risk that you can infect others, such as family members, friends or anyone who has not developed ANY Covid immunity.
Again, as far as the "FACT REMAINS" paragraph. I agreed, and said as much. I would never advocate people go shopping for covid. If you would read, you would know that.
The facts I stated are simple: 20 million (minimum, some estimates are as high as 90 million) people already had covid before there was ever a vaccine. Many of them saw no reason to then get vaccinated... especially if they were healthy and had minimal symptoms. Is this concept really that hard to grasp??
Mac, for an intelligent guy you are drawing a really dumb conclusion from all this. Nobody is saying walk thru a covid ward and breathe deeply. We are acknowledging a fact, many millions have had the virus, are protected by natural antibodies and do not need to be vaccinated. Why some of you cannot accept that reality I do not understand.
Mac , just google study of natural immunity after covid done in Israel. It was huge, maybe 1million patients. It showed natural immunity was way way stronger than vaccine immunity, maybe 27 times more effective, and it lasted much longer. Are you gonna get a booster every 3 months? When that study was done, I think they had patients with strong antibody presence 18 months after having the virus.
There are multiple other studies showing the same thing. I had the virus over a year ago and my antibody levels are still high. Btw, the young fellow you cited having a lung transplant had neither had the vaccine nor had the disease so he had no immunity , natural or otherwise.
The fact remains, the only way to develop natural immunity is to gamble with your life and possibly the lives of anyone else you might infect with your Covid while you are attempting to gain your own 'natural immunity', while you are contagious with Covid.
We are not done with Covid as variants continue to develop once or twice a year. In the future I see Covid being treated in the same way we protect individuals from the flue. I expect boosters on a yearly basis while better vaccines are being developed. As I said in an earlier post...I TRUST MY OWN JUDGEMENT...and will not rely on some study based on faulty assumptions or politically biased information and I sure as hell will not rely on word of mouth opinions that come from a message board.
So, the numbers don't lie... Upwards of 80% (probably closer to 90%) of people's bodies has seen either vaccination or the virus itself.
fate...I did a search to find evidence that backs up your claim above (80-90%) and was unable to locate information to back up your claim. Maybe you have a link to an article to back up the claim..?
I pointed out in early summer when everyone was panicking over the vaccination levels, Based on known seroprevalence surveys and the vaccination rates, we could imply at that time that we were above 80% based on simple logic and arithmetic. Turns out that in July we were actually at 88.8%. Keep in mind that this was above the "herd immunity" objective of 85% and was also before we started calling it a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and trying to put vaccine mandates in place. It also predated Delta and Omicron. Looks like we are 95% as of December. After Omicron, probably closer to 97%. CDC Seroprevalence Survey Data
Again, as far as the "FACT REMAINS" paragraph. I agreed, and said as much. I would never advocate people go shopping for covid. If you would read, you would know that.
The facts I stated are simple: 20 million (minimum, some estimates are as high as 90 million) people already had covid before there was ever a vaccine. Many of them saw no reason to then get vaccinated... especially if they were healthy and had minimal symptoms. Is this concept really that hard to grasp??
fate...the point I'm making, regardless of studies or claims you might be making, to gain the advantages you claim that come from "natural immunity" come WITH RISK. The worst risks being "your death, severe sickness" and risking the lives and health of others...UNNECESSARILY, imo.
You seem to come with the same conclusion that I do...taking the risk that goes long with developing "natural immunity" IS NOT WORTH IT..!
You could help everyone if you would simply include a link to the information and numbers you claim.
If you can't include a link to the information you are referring to, I'm not going not going to do the work for you. It's not too much to ask for, imo.
Please read the following sloooowly... If you've already had covid, you've already experienced the risks. Nowhere, no how, never, have I said people should go out and get covid to bypass the vaccine.
I've supplied link after link after link for two years. They're either refuted by strawman arguments or I'm accused of not caring if people die. It's juvenile.
In your previous post you repeated that you would trust your own judgment and not rely on faulty studies or biased information, now you want links...
So I'll ask and respond, although I'm a little confused by what you want links for? My opinion?? Please tell me what you want links for and I'll gladly provide them.
But mac, I think you are missing his point which is that it no longer matters. Getting ahead of the virus with a vaccine made sense because the first exposure to the virus is the most risky, and a year and a half ago, 80% of the population had no exposure. But the reality has changed.
Almost everyone has either contracted the virus or had the vaccine. There is almost nobody left that has not. So how much value is there in pushing increasingly obsolete vaccines? My extremely healthy spouse caught COVID 60 days after her obselete booster. Meanwhile, treatments such as Pavloxid are effectively unavailable, even though they are being advertised on TV. If administered in the first 5 days, Pavloxid lowers hospitalization by nearly 90%, but hospital systems are hording it and not giving it out unless people are hospitalized. I confirmed this in my own bout with COVID. Even with certain risk factors, I talked to two separate physicians to try to get treatment and could get nothing useful.
Investing our time and energy into treatments will yield better result at this point than a never ending focus on pushing obsolete vaccines. If we can get updated vaccines, that would be great, but they will also have limited spans of usefulness. Treatments like Pavloxid which actually attack the ability of the RNA to replicate should be better at retaining their effectiveness over time.
And as far as the strength of natural immunity, this has never been in contention. Exposure to the real virus that is currently in circulation will almost always result in more useful or more lasting antibodies than exposure to a simulated virus or dead virus from previous years. There are studies that verify this with COVID, but it was never really in doubt. This is sort of built into the immune system. The downside is that you have to get sick in order to get the antibodies.
So I'll ask and respond, although I'm a little confused by what you want links for? My opinion?? Please tell me what you want links for and I'll gladly provide them.
I noticed mac didn't give any links to his two "cases" where 1 young man needed a lung transplant, and apparently, got one immediately, and the other "case" he cited.
Mac , just google study of natural immunity after covid done in Israel. It was huge, maybe 1million patients. It showed natural immunity was way way stronger than vaccine immunity, maybe 27 times more effective, and it lasted much longer. Are you gonna get a booster every 3 months? When that study was done, I think they had patients with strong antibody presence 18 months after having the virus.
There are multiple other studies showing the same thing. I had the virus over a year ago and my antibody levels are still high. Btw, the young fellow you cited having a lung transplant had neither had the vaccine nor had the disease so he had no immunity , natural or otherwise.
Those and other studies were simply swept under the rug by our CDC. For no good reason, imo. I think the audacity to ignore studies involving millions of people only strengthened the resolve by many here that Covid response was a political narrative as much as a health initiative.
There were patients who were sick with the original SARS virus in 2003 with a strong immunity to covid 18 years later.
And this is how misinformation is spread kids! smh.
Oh, cry me a river, snowflake. Any morsel of information you don't like is misinformation. All of that is FACT, so buzz off.
Tell me how your fake news spreading ass really feels why don't ya? lmao, and you called me snowflake? Oh, the irony.
I look forward to the day when you can actually add something intelligent and meaningful to the conversation. Til then we just have to tolerate your ignorant drivel.
Well that day was today, yesterday, and the every damn day before that. Try again when you understand the meaning of the words you are trying to use, everybody can see just how 'smart' you are. Don't you have a Q meeting?
Quick side note… COVID is hammering my friend group right now. I have a buddy (vaccinated) that leads a band. They played Saturday night to a full house. He’s now tested positive. As have many of my friends that attended. Unfortunately one of those infected is my artistic partner and his wife (also vaccinated). He and I work together on the weekends. I worked with him last Saturday, before the show. I won’t be working with him this weekend, which sucks because we have a major project due to be on a truck heading for the east coast in 3 weeks. Not working this weekend is going to put us up against it to get it done on time.
Everyone that I’m aware of is ‘okay’ right now… if having a fever, body aches, fatigue, and congestion is ‘okay’.
I travel with my art buddy mid next month. I guess I won’t have to worry about being around him as he’ll have a fair amount of immunity built in.
Be safe out there folks.
Hope they all recover quickly Port, that sucks. Any idea what variant or if it's a new one?
He's like 2 others on here - they just blather on about stuff that msnbc feeds them, or rachel maddow feeds them. They consider THOSE sources legit, but not any sources that disagree with them.
Anti trump? Bam, there all over it. Meanwhile, our president tries to shake hands with no one, and doesn't even get it. Our vice president giggles her way through every thing.
Do some research on "clueless" Do some research on "begging for approval". Do some research on senility. Biden and Harris will show up.
Why the hell would I try to rationalize facts to science denying right wingers? Do you think I like mental masturbation? I've had 5 years of the trolls in this forum prove one damn thing, no matter what you do, they still don't believe facts. What are you supposed to do with that? I know what you don't do, listen to that rubbish.
So that is a long winded way of saying you cannot show any factual inaccuracy so I will just rant on about nothing. You are good at that if nothing else.
It is somewhat ironic for you to call someone a science denier as you deny the scientific studies. Really humerous. You bring to mind another famous expression. “I’ve already made up my mind, don’t confuse me with the facts”.
Why the hell would I try to rationalize facts to science denying right wingers? Do you think I like mental masturbation? I've had 5 years of the trolls in this forum prove one damn thing, no matter what you do, they still don't believe facts. What are you supposed to do with that? I know what you don't do, listen to that rubbish.
Quick side note… COVID is hammering my friend group right now. I have a buddy (vaccinated) that leads a band. They played Saturday night to a full house. He’s now tested positive. As have many of my friends that attended. Unfortunately one of those infected is my artistic partner and his wife (also vaccinated). He and I work together on the weekends. I worked with him last Saturday, before the show. I won’t be working with him this weekend, which sucks because we have a major project due to be on a truck heading for the east coast in 3 weeks. Not working this weekend is going to put us up against it to get it done on time.
Everyone that I’m aware of is ‘okay’ right now… if having a fever, body aches, fatigue, and congestion is ‘okay’.
I travel with my art buddy mid next month. I guess I won’t have to worry about being around him as he’ll have a fair amount of immunity built in.
Be safe out there folks.
Hope they all recover quickly Port, that sucks. Any idea what variant or if it's a new one?
No idea of the variant. The tests don’t show. They just show positive for COVID. Most of my friends are fairing well. A few sicker than others but all in all they’re getting through it. I was asked to go to the show… I didn’t for this kind of reason. Now I’m glad I didn’t… even though I heard the band crushed it.
Why the hell would I try to rationalize facts to science denying right wingers? Do you think I like mental masturbation? I've had 5 years of the trolls in this forum prove one damn thing, no matter what you do, they still don't believe facts. What are you supposed to do with that? I know what you don't do, listen to that rubbish.
THAT'S what I thought, little buddy.
You must be mistaking me for one of your half men. What did 40 call them? Sissy half men or some crap? Even though I know you aren't stupid, I would never accuse you of being smart either, especially when you post this crap. Wake up.
Look at the sources, anything that denies mainstream science, comes from GOPer news, or rolls around in your little head without fact checker confirmation is based in right wing lies. The right wing lives inside some kind of dystopian victimhood state, so almost anything put out is tainted with BS. Ivermectin? BS. Bleach? BS. UV lights up the butt? BS. Mask hurt people somehow? BS.
But I'm sure you can't see how insane your entire party looks and sounds. It's hard to see from the deep underbelly inside. And if they hadn't got into your head so hard, we could have been great friends because believe it or not, we have a lot in common other than politics. But your team keeps us at each other's throats with all their dirty dealing. So, no. I'm not going to jump through hoops to prove you wrong, although it can be done, it's an exercise in futility, so I'm not giving you the satisfaction. You believe a bunch of BS lies, and I can't help you. Again, wake up.
You can choose to compare it to January, or March/April and come up with whatever answer you wish.
Yes, cases are ticking up, but down about 90-95 percent from the January peak.
Is your glass half empty, or half full.
That's quite true about where cases are now compared to the peak. But that's generally not what comparing the numbers from month to month tells you. With each new variant or sub variant the numbers increase slowly. They tend to rise over time with each new variant as the new variant takes over and begins to spread. That's how we arrived at those peak numbers.
So the point you're making is quite valid about how it could be much worse and we are well below the peak numbers of any variant we have seen, this is an indicator that hospitalizations are on the rise with the new sub variant we are now seeing. None of us have any way of knowing if this variant will be strong enough to rise to the level of some of the previous variants. Now that we have at home testing it's impossible to keep up with the spread by positive cases.
So no, it's really not about a glass being half empty or half full. It's simply an indicator that hospitalizations are again on the rise. Some may see that as a cause to once again be more cautious. Some may not. But every peak we've seen started with rising hospitalizations. It's the current trend.
So I'll ask and respond, although I'm a little confused by what you want links for? My opinion?? Please tell me what you want links for and I'll gladly provide them.
I noticed mac didn't give any links to his two "cases" where 1 young man needed a lung transplant, and apparently, got one immediately, and the other "case" he cited.
archie...just for you and your boys...
LOCAL NEWS 28-year-old shares battle against COVID-19 in ICU, wishes he prioritized vaccine
by: Eric Halperin Posted: Dec 3, 2021 / 06:45 AM EST Updated: Dec 3, 2021 / 06:51 AM EST
COLUMBUS, Ohio (WCMH) – For Kodie Edler, doing laundry, dishes, and other chores are steppingstones towards bigger goals. The everyday tasks might not seem like much but to him they mean a lot.
Over the summer he spent more than two months in the intensive care unit (ICU) at the Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center (OSUWMC) after getting COVID-19. “We’re celebrating the little wins. Seven or eight weeks ago I couldn’t even do a sit to stand,” said Edler.
The 28-year-old was with his wife on the way back from a family trip when he came down with a fever. Turns out he had COVID-19 and was hospitalized within days. Days later he was on ventilator. Then he was moved from his local hospital near his home in Findlay to the ICU at the OSUWMC.
“My first thing I thought when I saw him is like oh my gosh is this the start of something new with delta and it was,” said Dr. Veena Satyapriya, Medical Director of the ECMO Program at the OSUWMC.
Dr. Satyapriya was one of Edler’s doctors. She says when delta started to surge over the summer she started seeing more young patients with no underlying conditions getting COVID-19 and becoming severely ill. That was the case with Edler.
She mentioned Edler’s situation at a city press conference in August urging vaccinations. ECMO is a device that takes blood out of a person, oxygenates it, then puts it back in. It’s extremely invasive and comes with risks but a step taken when other options do not work, according to Dr. Satyapriya.
Edler would spend about two months on ECMO in a medically induced coma. Eventually he got a double lung transplant and left the hospital after almost 90 days. Back when he got COVID-19, he was not vaccinated.
“I don’t have a better way to put it, I don’t have a more eloquent way to put it, it’s just don’t be like me,” he said. He says he was not against getting the vaccine, he just had not prioritized getting the shot, putting work and other tasks first.
It’s a decision he wishes he’d handled differently. While he knows most cases do not get as bad as his, he does not want any other people to experience what he has.
Murder charges against Jason Meade filed in death of Casey Goodson Jr.
“One of the ways that I can describe it is you have a lock on every window and every door of your house. In my opinion without the vaccine, you’re leaving the back door without a lock all the time. Why not add that lock in.”
Edler got out of the hospital on October 8th. He’s since been back to the ICU floor he was on to do a ‘victory lap.’ He saw many of the medical professionals who cared for him. Some of them he remembered, some he did not due to being in the medically induced coma.
They all remembered him and were so happy to see him. He also gave encouragement to another patient who was in a similar situation to the one he dealt with, recovering from a double lung transplant after COVID-19 led to his lungs being severely damaged.
now you want links...So I'll ask and respond, although I'm a little confused by what you want links for? My opinion?? Please tell me what you want links for and I'll gladly provide them.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
I noticed mac didn't give any links to his two "cases" where 1 young man needed a lung transplant, and apparently, got one immediately, and the other "case" he cited.
archie...also, you posted this...
Quote
1 young man needed a lung transplant, and apparently, got one immediately, and the other "case" he cited.
arch...tell me, where did say or even imply that the young man who got the lung transplant got a transplant "IMMEDIATELY"..?
You simply made that up for your lame reason because I never said such a thing or even implied that he quickly got a lung transplant...did I?
Update on my recently infected friend group. Most have recovered, a couple are dealing with lasting symptoms, one has tested negative again already just 5 days post a positive test, everyone else is still testing positive 9 days post exposure, one friend has lost her sense of taste and smell… Sucks for her. I think locally our infection rates are about at the peak. I’m expecting to start seeing a downward trend over the coming two weeks. It’s burned through most of the local nursing facilities by now. I’m hoping for a bit of a reprieve as the weather warms up and people start spending their social time outdoors.
Now I'm going to add another COVID situation that I heard about just yesterday.
A friend and his brother dropped in yesterday to ask permission to fish in our pond. It had been close to 2 years since they had last been here before the Covid pandemic hit the USA. Late last year, before Christmas, we learned that our friend's father had died. We sent our condolences to him and his mother but due to the Covid threat, we would not be attending the funeral.
Yesterday, my wife and I again passed on our condolences and our friend related the entire situation concerning how his father died. He contracted Covid and got sick..very sick, spending time (weeks) in a Michigan hospital before passing.
...At nearly the same time, his wife also got sick with Covid spending 9 days in intensive care in a hospital here in Ohio, before surviving Covid and continues to slowly recover.
...While visiting his Dad in Michigan and his mother here in Ohio, the son (our friend) contracted Covid and spent time in the same hospital his mother was in. Our friend said it was as sick as he has ever been and the entire family ordeal was an unbelievable shock to them. They never thought their decision to forgo COVID shots would turnout so horribly bad for them.
My only reason for relating these "true accounts" concerning Covid is to help others make their own decisions concerning how to approach the pandemic issue.
BTW arch, I have no link to this very personal accounting of our friends Covid experience...you just have to trust me.
I've had covid twice. Once, before it was covid. I got the vax as soon as I was eligible. I got the booster. I also got covid again. I was not deathly sick either time. In fact, the last time, I only tested because I had a stuffy nose in the morning, for a few days. Pretty common, at least for me, in the winter.
So I don't know what point you're trying to make. I am for, and have had, the vaccinations. I've had covid, twice. I'm for being smart and safe. So?
now you want links...So I'll ask and respond, although I'm a little confused by what you want links for? My opinion?? Please tell me what you want links for and I'll gladly provide them.
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
I noticed mac didn't give any links to his two "cases" where 1 young man needed a lung transplant, and apparently, got one immediately, and the other "case" he cited.
archie...also, you posted this...
Quote
1 young man needed a lung transplant, and apparently, got one immediately, and the other "case" he cited.
arch...tell me, where did say or even imply that the young man who got the lung transplant got a transplant "IMMEDIATELY"..?
You simply made that up for your lame reason because I never said such a thing or even implied that he quickly got a lung transplant...did I?
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Actually, you DID imply it. Thanks for playing. Guy got covid. Was in intensive care, got sent to Columbus, got a lung transplant.
With no links to any articles, it's tough to tell what you meant, MACIE.
I have a clue how long people on organ transplant lists wait, okay, MACIE?
archie...so now you are claiming that you know how The Ohio State Wexner Medical Center determines who gets a lung transplant and when it happens. You have to be one of the smartest Doctors on this message board.
Please Arch...tell the members of this message board how The OSU Wexner Center establishes it's priorities to determine who gets a lung transplant and how quickly a transplant can happen for the patient.
BTW, while you consider this some kind of game ("playing")...I'm not playing..!
I’m seeing this now. I have friends on their second infection. A few dealt with it around Christmas and are doing battle with it again. …. I’ll keep my KN95 supply loaded and in use for the foreseeable future. I honestly don’t care if I’m the only one with one on when I’m out in public anymore. More and more it’s the case. Home Depot, the grocery store, etc… it’s like people WANT to catch it. Good luck out there.
I should have been as disciplined as you. My wife and I are currently both infected for the second time. This one is much worse. It hit me like a sledgehammer this past Friday the 13th and I tested positive on Saturday. It hit her 4 days before mine. This time around the strip turned bright red the instant the swab touched it for both of us. Last time it was a faint line after 15m. The symptoms are very similar to the immunization reaction (chills, headache, fever, aches, fatigue etc) along with a lot of chest and nasal congestion and coughing. It hasn't gotten worse, but it really hasn't been better either. I can really tell when the Motrin starts wearing off. Neither of us has lost our sense of taste or smell. The wife has been doing better the last 2 days, so hopefully I'm right behind her. I haven't been to the doc, but I'm treating it with Motrin 800mg every 8+hrs, Claritin D, Symbicort and Albuterol inhalers and a zinc supplement....and tons of fluid.
Although we've been good with keeping things clean and using hand sanitizer, we haven't been masking up as religously as we did earlier. I'm pretty sure the wife picked it up at one of the hockey games we went to on the 6th and 7th (no masks) and then I caught it from her. We're both vaccinated with one booster.
I admit i don't wear my mask much anymore. I wore it everytime i went out for over two years. I have had both shots and two boosters and I reached the point where I said my chances of dying from the cancer, a stroke, a heart attack. Or my aneurysm rupturing way outweight me dying from covid. . However I still wear it around high risk folks, but i do feel guilty that I dont wear it inpublic like I use too. I
At this point it’s every man for themselves. People are going to do as they choose. I’m not admonishing anyone for their choices anymore. The data on proper masking is out there… so is COVID. People now can decide how they live, or die. I’m heading to Florida next week to deliver an art piece to a local municipality. My expectation for the public’s mask use there is… well… my guess is I’ll get more than my share of looks when I’m wearing a mask. Don’t care. I don’t want to bring anything back to Portland with me except a check and a suntan.
Man j, I'm sorry to hear that. I certainly wish both you and your wife well and hope you get to feeling better soon. My wife and I have our second booster scheduled for Friday.
At this point it’s every man for themselves. People are going to do as they choose. I’m not admonishing anyone for their choices anymore. The data on proper masking is out there… so is COVID. People now can decide how they live, or die. I’m heading to Florida next week to deliver an art piece to a local municipality. My expectation for the public’s mask use there is… well… my guess is I’ll get more than my share of looks when I’m wearing a mask. Don’t care. I don’t want to bring anything back to Portland with me except a check and a suntan.
just got back from there. I'd say about 10% of those traveling in the airports (any of them) wore a mask. No one cares if you do or don't wear a mask.
Justin Bieber Diagnosed with a Known Side Effect of the covid Bioweapon Injection by Jeff Dornik June 10, 2022 in Entertainment and Sports, Everything, Healthcare, News and Opinions, Science and Tech
Everyone is talking about the rare disorder that Justin Bieber has been diagnosed with. Ramsay Hunt syndrome paralyzed half of the pop singer’s face, forcing him to cancel his tour.
Unfortunately for Bieber, this is also a known side effect of the covid-19 bioweapon injection. According to PubMed, there are documented cases of this extremely rare disorder shortly after getting jabbed.
While Bieber has been quiet about his vaccination status, his world tour does require proof of being jabbed with the Poison Death Shot in order to enter, so it is assumed that he has been injected.
According to TMZ:
Justin Bieber has been battling a serious virus, one that has left the right side of his face paralyzed … and he’ll need to take some time off to work on getting better.
The singer posted a video Friday explaining to fans why he’s had to postpone several shows over the last week, explaining he’s been diagnosed with Ramsay Hunt Syndrome. Bieber says it’s affected a nerve in his ear, causing the paralysis.
As visible in the video, Justin is unable to blink with one of his eyes, and can only smile with one side of his mouth.
Instead of getting jabbed, one of the best things you can do to protect yourself from covid is to build up your immune system. My doctor recommended I take a daily regimen of supplements, including vitamin D and C, as well as Zinc and Quercetin. Fortunately, Dr Zelenko has come out with a supplement that combines all of these into one. Order them today at zstacklife.com/freedom using discount code FREEDOM.
SpamBrown is shilling supplements now. Hey Jim Bakker is selling some nonsense too. He’s a godly man. How can he possibly steer you wrong?
I have to go back to Florida on Sunday. We had issues with the art not being delivered on time. Hence my last trip was a bust. The airports were filled with non mask wearing folks. Oh well. Let them get sick. The stats show that the east coast of Florida as the hottest of COVID hotspots in the country right now. I’ll be masked again.
Gee all my shot did was load me up with gamma radiation so that I now turn green and grow super strong when I get angry.
You must have gotten the moderna vaccine. I went with Pfizer. It contains the radioactive venom of a spider. Regretting that decision a little. Kind of wishing I would have gone with the Novavax vaccine and gotten linked to the speed force.
Jabs - the Secret Weapon Against Trump 2024 Tom Renz 3 hr ago
I am going to premise this article with the fact that this is based on my analysis. Obviously, I cannot prove what will happen in the next two years, but I think this cannot be overstated. Also, before I get a million comments on 4-d chess and other such nonsense let me state my position: I believe Donald Trump was one of the best presidents in our nation’s history. He was attacked more and from more directions than ANY other president I could list - including from his own party. The unfortunate reality is that regardless of how talented the Donald is, he is still human, and he was quite clearly misled. Now it is the job of those that believe in freedom to ensure he knows that we continue to support him but that we NEED him to take a stand to save our children’s lives and our troops.
COVID was a lie from the beginning.The death numbers were inflated, the PCR tests never worked, and the disease was known, very early on, to be roughly as dangerous as a bad flu season (probably less so if treatment was not denied). You can read the fact pattern in the file below, which is a case I filed in early September 2020, if you want a healthy dose of well-cited truth.
Let me reiterate - I filed this at the beginning of September of 2020 and then amended the complaint but the original contained the same fact pattern. Also, you should know that after talking ex parte to the defense, the judge called this unintelligible so let me know if you need interpretation. This entire farce should have ended right there but it did not.
We have continued the fight without cessation since this filing and have had some success and ran into some walls. Ultimately, what I did not realize when I filed this case, was that this was part of a war on America and had two major purposes. The first purpose was to damage our nation by transferring wealth from small and midsize business to billion-dollar corporations. This was important because it is very difficult to control a decentralized business structure but easy when you only have a few big businesses that you can “include as stakeholders” (look at the WEF if you do not understand this).
The other purpose of the COVID nonsense was to facilitate the jabs. The purpose of the jabs is very misunderstood. People focus on many of the things that the global elite view as ancillary benefits of these poisons but have largely missed the main goal. Killing people off (depopulation), money, editing your genome, these are things that may or may not be important now or in the future (depending on what you believe) but the evidence points to another foundational reason for the jabs. You see, at this point, gene therapy is still and experiment, the global elite have not yet built a big enough data set for these jabs to accomplish much more than killing people with terrible side effects. These jabs are a global experiment to gather data on gene therapy and to act as a legal end-run around the law to legalize human gene therapy. These things could not happen without a super-scary “global pandemic” because no one was interested in being experimented on and becoming a human GMO.
All that said, probably the most important secondary goal of these jabs was an insurance policy against the Donald getting a second term. Trump is the single biggest potential threat to globalist control so protecting against another “Trump setback” is essential to these monsters. In October of 2020 an FDA meeting leaked with extensive discussion of serious side effects that were expected from these jabs (this is before they were available). I sincerely doubt the Donald was ever given this information and do not know if he has seen it to this day.
Based on reports that I cannot validate but believe have some validity, information like this was actively kept from the President while at the same time his “trusted advisors” were feeding him lies about death counts (which we debunked above) and cases (also debunked). These people kept telling Trump that we HAD to stay locked down and so Trump pushed for what he thought was a solution - the jab. People kept acting as though there were obstacles and made Trump feel like he had to fight to get this done all the while he was actually being played. When the jabs became available, he naturally wanted to take credit for his “accomplishment” but this was all part of the trillion dollar manipulation (again, this is based on reports, not proof but if you do not think the other side is that devious take a look at the Trump/Russia collusion debacle).
Regardless of the accuracy of the previous paragraph, Trump did tout the success of operation warp speed endlessly. We are now seeing two things happen. First, a steady leak of reports indicating “newly found” dangers from the death jabs, and second, a push to legalize and normalize gene therapy jabs beyond just COVID. There are many billions of dollars being invested globally in gene therapy jabs and the FDA is feeling pretty confident in their authority to authorize the new generation of these jabs due to the COVID jab experiment. These gene therapies will be called vaccines to ensure no lawsuits can succeed due to the immunity vaccines are given.
With regards to the second part of this of the plan is the anti-Trump agenda. Prior to 2024 (assuming Trump is looking like a favorite again), I think it is highly likely that we will see more and more reports talking about how the first generation of COVID jabs did have some problems but these problems were entirely because Donald Trump made the good people at the FDA ignore protocols during the pandemic so he could selfishly take credit for getting our nation open again during an election year. The fake science they will produce will show that there were deaths and side effect in the early iterations of the jabs, but they are now safe and the deaths that occurred were solely because of Trump’s actions. It will not matter that this is all garbage - the entire mainstream, especially including Fox, will push the narrative and Trump will be stuck with it.
There is a way out for the real President. It is already very late, but if Trump were to come out and admit to the world that he was lied to, he could get ahead of this. The MAGA nation is very forgiving because they recognize that Trump has truly done more than anyone to “make America great again” but he really needs to do this sooner rather than later.
Ultimately, I will continue to fight this in every way possible but what happens is in God’s hands. I pray for Trump and for our nation and sincerely hope he sees this.
The dude can't help himself. He's so far down the rabbit hole; all that matters is that NOTHING is allowed to shatter his belief. That's what Trumpism and Qanon do to people. All you have to do is look at what it did to this board to see it.
Covid hit my house this week for the first time. I've taken care of my wife all week. My Pfizer was better than her Moderna; we've had three shots each. My mother-in-law, who lives with us, had both, and she got by without getting it too.
Meh, everybody should be able to work, but I think the world will survive if Beiber can work for five minutes. He's been radicalized and can't see it at all. He's not alone by a long shot.
Tony Horton also got Ramsay Hunt a few years back. From what I heard, it's mostly due to a derivative of Chicken Pox/Shingles, but hell if I'm an expert on it. All I know is that I was warned by a certain poster that I would get Bells Palsy from the vaccine and, well... still able to smile on both sides of my face.
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau tests positive for Covid-19 The positive test comes just days after Trudeau met with President Joe Biden.
June 13, 2022, 12:57 PM EDT / Updated June 13, 2022, 2:35 PM EDT By Dareh Gregorian
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Monday that he has tested positive for Covid-19, announcing the result just days after he met with President Joe Biden.
U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra, who attended the same summit as Trudeau and Biden, has also tested positive for the virus, his office said.
Trudeau announced his positive test on social media.
"I feel okay, but that’s because I got my shots. So, if you haven’t, get vaccinated — and if you can, get boosted," Trudeau said in a tweet.
Trudeau met with Biden in a bilateral meeting in Los Angeles at the Summit of the Americas on Thursday.
The White House said the pair discussed the Russian assault on Ukraine "and joint efforts to make our supply chains and economies more resilient to external shocks."
The pair and other leaders attending the summit also took a “family photo” together on Friday.
A White House spokesperson said the 79-year-old Biden, who is at a higher risk from the virus because of his age, was not considered a “close contact” of the prime minister’s.
There are two lessons to learn here, boys and girls:
And this happened to Justin Bieber's wife a few month's back:
Hailey Bieber reveals her 'body is taking a little longer to heal' months after blood clot on brain left her in hospital: 'It's been a little hard for me'
Pure Evil: FDA Approves Dangerous Covid Jabs on Babies as Young as 6-Months Old By J.D. Rucker • Jun. 17, 2022
Let’s call this exactly what it is: Pure evil. Following the recommendations of a Big-Pharma-controlled panel of “doctors” who unanimously voted to approve jabbing young children with the unsafe and completely ineffective Covid-19 “vaccines,” the FDA has approved the shots for any American over 6-months old.
Lest we forget the risk Covid poses to children is infinitesimal. It is far-less deadly to unjabbed children than Influenza. Moreover, evidence continues to mount that the jabs do not provide anywhere near the protection that government, Big Pharma, and their media puppets claim. This makes absolutely zero sense from a medical perspective, but makes perfect sense from the perspective of globalist elites like Bill Gates and Barack Obama who want to see every man, woman, and child on earth injected.
According to Independent Sentinel:
The Food and Drug Administration authorized COVID-19 vaccines for children as young as 6 months old on Friday. It enables shots for 20 million babies, toddlers, and preschoolers.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention must still sign off before kids under age 5 can start getting vaccinated. That could happen within days.
“Those trusted with the care of children can have confidence in the safety and effectiveness of these COVID-19 vaccines. And can be assured that the agency was thorough in its evaluation of the data,” FDA Commissioner Dr. Robert Califf said in a statement announcing the move.
***Support The Liberty Daily and Mike Lindell -- use code TLD at MyPillow.com and get up to 66% off!*** The FDA’s decision comes after unanimous votes of support out of a daylong meeting Wednesday. The meeting included the regulator’s outside advisers, and the Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee. The bureaucrats weighed submissions from Moderna as well as Pfizer and its partner BioNTech.
There are no long-term studies obviously.
If you love the news, check out The Liberty Daily's homepage. As we covered yesterday, 49 of 50 states have already pre-ordered the baby jabs. Only Florida and Governor Ron DeSantis have rightly held off. Now, we’re just waiting on the CDC’s recommendations. According to End Times Headlines:
There’s one step left: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends how to use vaccines and its vaccine advisers are set to discuss the shots Friday and vote on Saturday. A final signoff would come from CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky.
Techno Fog predicted this is exactly what would happen:
Pfizer and Moderna are back at it, pleading with the FDA for an expansion of their Emergency Use Authorizations (EUA) for their COVID-19 vaccines. Moderna is requesting an EUA for (1) kids aged 6 through 17; and (2) kids aged 6 months through 5. Pfizer is asking for an EUA to include the administration of its vaccine for kids aged 6 months through 4 years. (Dr. Anthony Fauci has been promoting these vaccines for children since last year.)
Prediction: the FDA will approve these EUAs for COVID-19 vaccines these kids don’t need. (Update: On June 15, 2022, FDA advisors recommended the Moderna vaccine be approved for kids aged 6 months – 5 years, and the Pfizer vaccine for kids aged 6 months through 4 years.)
For reference, this is the same FDA that granted an EUA to the Pfizer vaccine for kids aged 5-11 while admitting it didn’t know the long-term risks – or short-term risks – of that vaccine. In fact, one of the FDA voting members justified his vote by stating: “We’re never gonna learn about how safe the vaccine is until we start giving it.”
This is clearly a move to not only spread the injections to the youngest among us, but to keep uninformed or misguided parents clamoring for ways to protect themselves. Never have we seen this sort of mass selfishness, but such is the state of society today. Considering Covid poses virtually zero risk of death to children, parents getting their kids jabbed must be doing so in order to keep themselves from contracting the disease. It’s despicable.
As I’ve said many times, we’re not fighting against science. We’re fighting FOR science against a series of agendas. Whether it’s Big Pharma’s greed, politicians’ power, or the globalist elites’ push for The Great Reset, the powers arrayed against us are strong. Stay frosty and keep fighting the good fight by spreading the truth.
America is now the only country in the world that authorizes COVID shots for infants Not what the corporate press told you. Jordan Schachtel 4 hr ago
It appears that the United States just became the only country in the world to “vaccinate” babies and toddlers with COVID injections.
Despite what you are reading in the press, the U.S. seems to be, as of Friday, the only country in the world to partake in experimental COVID therapeutics for infants.
On Friday, the FDA authorized mRNA COVID shots (both Pfizer and Moderna) under emergency use authorization for children under 5 years old, all the way down to 6 months of age. As you’ll see in a moment, this is unprecedented anywhere in the world.
The approval made its way through the halls of the federal bureaucracy, regardless of any studies showing a positive benefit for injecting young children with mRNA shots, which, even in adults, do not effectively prevent coronavirus infection.
Making matters worse, our deceitful corporate press is actively engaged in a cover up operation to make it seem like the new policy is not particularly unique, when in fact, it is exclusively unique.
Many corporate press reports, in hailing the announcement, churned out stenography today that made a quick mention of the fact that “a dozen countries, including China, already vaccinate kids under 5.”
But when you break down the data further, a true scandal arises.
As of a couple weeks ago there were only 7 countries where kids under 5 were given COVID injections, though the WHO now claims that number is 12.
The seven countries on record are:
-Argentina
-Bahrain
-Chile
-China
-Cuba
-UAE
-Venezuela
(the territory of Hong Kong, which uses the Chinese-made shots, is sometimes listed as the eighth country on record)
(Check out my sponsor, Swan Bitcoin, which gives Dossier readers $10 in free Bitcoin just for signing up)
But that’s only the beginning of the madness.
Venezuela and Cuba are the only countries that allow for COVID shots between the ages of two and three. The rest of the countries only go as young as three.
Moreover, none of the nations are using mRNA. 5 out of 7 are using Chinese manufactured inactivated vaccines. Cuba and Venezuela are using the Cuban homebrew shot.
And NONE of these countries are allowing for COVID shots between the ages of 6 months to two years, which means that the United States has become the only country in the world to allow for experimental COVID injections shots for babies and 2 year old toddlers.
I had it before. It was about the same then, just cold symptoms.
Last Friday my power was out all day due to a storm the night before. So instead of sitting around a hot house doing nothing I went to the bar all afternoon. That's probably where I got it.
The current strains in this country are fairly benign. It tends to stay in the upper respiratory system. Nose and throat. They also are seeing less long haul COVID. They feel it’s partly because of the way it’s infecting people.
Unfortunately they’re tracking two new strains in Europe right now that are a little more concerning. Alpha and Delta were so dangerous because they infected lower in your respiratory system, deep in your lungs. These new strains are showing this same trend. Kinda sucks to be reading the research. But it is what it is.
I’ve been traveling a lot the past few weeks for art/business. I saw so few masks being worn in the airports and public. Pompano Beach, Florida is one of the hottest hot spots in the country. Almost no masks in the Fort Lauderdale airport. Almost no mask use in public. I’ve been in Denver the past couple of days. I’m actually sitting in the airport now waiting to catch a flight home. Almost no mask wearing. My KN95 is on. I had it on in the few public places I visited while here…. I was one of only a small percentage.
Well, I finally caught Covid. Did a home test kit a few hours ago, it was positive.
I had been having terrible migraine-type headaches the last 10 days or so. I thought it was from nicotine gum, which I chew daily. (I don't smoke nor am I trying to quit smoking, I chew if for energy.)
Then I put two and two together. My head started killing me, my lungs are somewhat congested, I have no energy and no appetite. My throat feels REALLY raw, I hate it. I feel like I have the flu. You know what all that is - Covid!
This is pretty rough, but hopefully I'll get through this. Took off work all week so I can rest/get better.
Sorry to hear you finely caught up to COVID..or that it caught up to you. It’s not been fun for most of my friends that have had it. Still have a couple without a sense of taste. Though one of my friends posted on FB today that his coffee tasted like something for the first time in weeks. Unfortunately that something it tasted like was cooked peas. Yummy cup o Joe that sounds like.
I hope you get feeling better soon. Zinc, vitamin C, water, and rest. Get some sun too. It’s the best form of vitamin D3 you can take.
I always hated the argument to not be worried about getting COVID because ‘it’s just like the flu’. The flu feels awful. Who wants to feel like that?!? Especially potentially 3-5 times per year… unlike the seasonal flu.
Covid is still around and will be, maybe forever. At least the vaccines work to a large degree and I'd say most everybody has probably had it since this thing began, so the hear immunity deal we have read about is probably starting to kick in.
It may not be immunity as in you won't get it, but more to the degree it won't kill as many people. The common cold probably killed a good number of people back whenever the first cold started to be passed around. The same with the flu.
Native tribes were hit pretty hard when Europeans first started to settle in this land and brought various ailments the natives had never dealt with.
yea i agree. thankfully the majority got vaccinated so we should be ok. thankfully covid didn't mess screw with what i was actually in the hospital for, so i dodged a bullet there.
I hope you will start feeling better soon 3rd. Prayers out!
Get a hold of Zinc and Vitamin D! Ivermectin if possible!
Thanks, Super! Yes, I been taking vitamin D daily since the pandemic started. Also about 4 or 5 tablespoons of colloidal silver every day.
Now that I tested positive I'm also taking (twice a day): Ivermectin, Quercetin, Artemisinin & zinc sulfate. My throat doesn't hurt as much today, which is good. Chest is still congested, but a bit better. What is odd is my vision is off, especially if it nighttime.
I lasted a long time without catching it, I guess it was my time.
That's interesting how it's the opposite of the north, but completely understandable. I'm in Tampa this week and so far it has vacillated between being hot as hell to torrential downpour, to hot and humid as hell, which I suppose isn't out of the norm. Been noticing a lot of sargassum on the shoreline still, too.
That's interesting how it's the opposite of the north, but completely understandable. I'm in Tampa this week and so far it has vacillated between being hot as hell to torrential downpour, to hot and humid as hell, which I suppose isn't out of the norm. Been noticing a lot of sargassum on the shoreline still, too.
Yeah, last week was HOT with little rain, then Saturday it really started up, and had 2 days of solid rain from 4pm until late into the night. Supposed to be like this most of the week too. But it is Florida, you could be at a traffic light in a torrential downpour and look over and see a bone dry sidewalk.
That's interesting how it's the opposite of the north, but completely understandable. I'm in Tampa this week and so far it has vacillated between being hot as hell to torrential downpour, to hot and humid as hell, which I suppose isn't out of the norm. Been noticing a lot of sargassum on the shoreline still, too.
I had to bounce down to the Ft Lauderdale area twice over a three week window. My first trip the beaches were covered in sargassum. The ocean was full of it. Really unswimmable. My next trip back, totally clear. Beaches and water were clear. Unfortunately my first trip was the one where I had a bunch of opportunity for beach time. Whereas my second trip I literally spent less than 24 hours in Florida. Total business trip.
While there I really took note over the general COVID attitudes. It was so lax. I was one of the few masked people. The other thing I was reminded of is the differences in cultures based on climate. I correlated the fewer masks to the ability for restaurants to have their doors open for air circulation, everyone outdoor dining, etc. Where as I flew in from Oregon where it was still in the low 60’s and raining everyday. We were still ‘hiding from’ our climate. Now it appears Floridians are the ones in hiding while our temperatures rise and the dry season is upon us.
I hope you will start feeling better soon 3rd. Prayers out!
Get a hold of Zinc and Vitamin D! Ivermectin if possible!
Thanks, Super! Yes, I been taking vitamin D daily since the pandemic started. Also about 4 or 5 tablespoons of colloidal silver every day.
Now that I tested positive I'm also taking (twice a day): Ivermectin, Quercetin, Artemisinin & zinc sulfate. My throat doesn't hurt as much today, which is good. Chest is still congested, but a bit better. What is odd is my vision is off, especially if it nighttime.
I lasted a long time without catching it, I guess it was my time.
Time for another nap.
That is the perfect treatment for Covid! You did good 3rd! Get well!
I hope you will start feeling better soon 3rd. Prayers out!
Get a hold of Zinc and Vitamin D! Ivermectin if possible!
Thanks, Super! Yes, I been taking vitamin D daily since the pandemic started. Also about 4 or 5 tablespoons of colloidal silver every day.
Now that I tested positive I'm also taking (twice a day): Ivermectin, Quercetin, Artemisinin & zinc sulfate. My throat doesn't hurt as much today, which is good. Chest is still congested, but a bit better. What is odd is my vision is off, especially if it nighttime.
I lasted a long time without catching it, I guess it was my time.
Time for another nap.
That is the perfect treatment for Covid! You did good 3rd! Get well!
Thanks buddy! I would have really like to have tried MMS (aka sodium chlorite) to help me get rid of this, but I would need someone to show me how to mix and use it properly. Now that I'm getting older, some stuff is hard for me to figure out.... So for now I'll use what I know.
I just went outside to move my car to a better parking space. My vision is like 15 to 20% off now, it's like I'm in a movie. Kinda cool in a way but just plain odd.
Thanks, Eve! Same back at you! How are you feeling?
I'm pretty much over it. Every once in a while I have shortness of breath so I haven't been doing the yardwork I planned.
The CDC changed their quarantine to 5 days from start of symptoms, then you can go out in public for 5 days with a mask. So I wasn't stuck in the house for too long.
There's been a bit of a resurgence around here, 5 people are work in the last couple weeks, but no sever symptoms, just flu like.
Florida is the US’s COVID Petri dish. It has the highest rates of infection in the country.
This tends to be our flu/cold season as it's hot outdoors, so more and more are gathered indoors for longer periods.
No doubt.
I was in Florida last week to check up on the 95 year old mother-in-law. While my wife was doing things with her I pretty much stayed in the hotel room most of the day. I hit some golf balls early in the morning to beat the heat, grabbed a sandwich or something at Publics, then watched TV all day.
I have never like sitting around at the beach, and don't like to play an actual round of golf when it is 95 outside so sitting in a cool hotel room isn't all that bad, even if a lot of the TV shows were.
yea, over a botched tooth extraction at the VA. caught COVID but thankfully didn't have any symptoms. hope you're feeling better!!
Thanks! That's good to hear you have no symptoms.
I feel a little better every day. Besides the stuff I am taking for Covid I think the best thing to do is just rest.... Lord knows I can't do much more. No energy.
President Biden tests positive for COVID. He's experiencing mild symptoms. He's has had two boosters, so he should be pretty well "armed". Hopefully he recovers quickly without any complications.
Biden tests positive for Covid, experiencing mild symptoms The president, who is vaccinated and twice boosted, is being treated with the antiviral Paxlovid, the White House said.
July 21, 2022, 10:27 AM EDT By Shannon Pettypiece WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden tested positive for Covid on Thursday and is experiencing "mild symptoms," the White House said in a statement.
Biden, 79, is being treated with the antiviral Paxlovid and is fully vaccinated and twice boosted, the statement said.
"Consistent with CDC guidelines, he will isolate at the White House and will continue to carry out all of his duties fully during that time," the statement said. "He has been in contact with members of the White House staff by phone this morning, and will participate in his planned meetings at the White House this morning via phone and Zoom from the residence."
The positive test comes days after Biden returned from a trip overseas where he was in close contact with a number of leaders in Israel and the Middle East. Ahead of the trip, White House officials said Biden would be minimizing contact as a Covid precaution, but during public engagements, Biden was seen shaking hands and embracing officials and was seen without a mask during indoor meetings.
During a wave of infections in Washington earlier in the year, the White House warned that it was a possibility Biden would get Covid at some point but said that he had a level of protection from his vaccinations and access to antiviral treatments shown to greatly reduce the risk of hospitalization and death.
This new wave seems pretty wild, but I think everyone seems fatigued from the whole experience. WP AFB just went to HPCON Charlie, which means we all have to mask up on base if we have to go into the office.
Wife & I got boosted yesterday. Slightly sore arm; no symptoms.
If I shop at a large venue with good circulation, I sometimes go without a mask. If it's a small place, I cover my face. No exceptions.
My mask wearing isn't a political statement at all. It's a by-product of being raised by parents who taught me (by example) how to exercise common sense.
Hopefully an effective booster that targets omicron will be available by then. Multiple companies have been working on them since last November.
First reports were they would be available by last March, but the trials fell flat on their faces and they proved ineffective. Now reports are "out by fall" with no news of any trials or possible efficacy.
My hope is that with each new variant, the lethality drops as transmissibility rises. Maybe in a couple years, my immunocompromised azz can decide about CoVid shots they way I do about flu shots.
Hopefully an effective booster that targets omicron will be available by then. Multiple companies have been working on them since last November.
First reports were they would be available by last March, but the trials fell flat on their faces and they proved ineffective. Now reports are "out by fall" with no news of any trials or possible efficacy.
The efficacy trials were released in June, and are relatively positive -- though not a home-run (the efficacy of the omicron boosters is better than the original shots - but is less than the efficacy of the original vaccine against the original versions of Covid, for example):
Hopefully an effective booster that targets omicron will be available by then. Multiple companies have been working on them since last November.
First reports were they would be available by last March, but the trials fell flat on their faces and they proved ineffective. Now reports are "out by fall" with no news of any trials or possible efficacy.
my hope as well.. I'm not getting the booster right now as I'm hoping that they will get one that targets the more recent variants this fall...
My hope is that with each new variant, the lethality drops as transmissibility rises. Maybe in a couple years, my immunocompromised azz can decide about CoVid shots they way I do about flu shots.
Agreed... we've seen that trend so far and I hope it continues...
Hopefully an effective booster that targets omicron will be available by then. Multiple companies have been working on them since last November.
First reports were they would be available by last March, but the trials fell flat on their faces and they proved ineffective. Now reports are "out by fall" with no news of any trials or possible efficacy.
my hope as well.. I'm not getting the booster right now as I'm hoping that they will get one that targets the more recent variants this fall...
As a note, the CDC has said that getting a 2nd booster right now won't prevent you from getting the updated booster in the fall (you have to scroll down a bit in this article, but you can find others):
Thanks - still prefer to wait at this point... I've gotten the vaccine and have been exposed to covid frequently due to work or just in my personal life... so far haven't gotten it... I plan on getting the booster in the fall... but don't want it right now... glad though that for those who get the booster now that they can get the updated one in the fall as well if they choose.
Wife & I got boosted yesterday. Slightly sore arm; no symptoms.
If I shop at a large venue with good circulation, I sometimes go without a mask. If it's a small place, I cover my face. No exceptions.
My mask wearing isn't a political statement at all. It's a by-product of being raised by parents who taught me (by example) how to exercise common sense.
My wife and mother-in-law got theirs, and I had mine scheduled but my wife got it and I was exposed. So I still need it and will do it this weekend hopefully.
Thanks for bringing your expertise and facts to the board on this subject.
I should note that I am not a doctor --- i just read a lot.
Also, should add for the vaccine efficacy trials above. They were tested on BA.1, and not BA.4/5 -- though it seems quite likely that a vaccine that is better against BA.1 will also be better against BA.4/5.
My hope is that with each new variant, the lethality drops as transmissibility rises. Maybe in a couple years, my immunocompromised azz can decide about CoVid shots they way I do about flu shots.
I feel pretty sure it will get to that point. I hope so because I think people are getting tired of this whole deal.
I saw you just got a booster. Is that your 3rd? I got my 2nd maybe last Nov. I will look to get the 3rd maybe in the next several weeks. The 2nd had me fevered for a day. After that, I doubt I will just go get one every time someone says so. I will probably be pretty selective at that point.
J+J for the first. Moderna for the 2nd. This is now my 2nd boost after the first two.
That is where I am at. I am waiting for this newer shot that is said to be better for the new b variant. I think it is a b variant...lol...it's some variant. I think they say it should be available this fall.
J/C. Wright-Patt moved back into HPCON Charlie. We need to be all masked up when we go back in, which means most of us aren't going back in. I was in the office yesterday and forgot how much of a PITA it is to have that thing on all day. It's been long enough now where I stopped getting used to it.
Hopefully an effective booster that targets omicron will be available by then. Multiple companies have been working on them since last November.
First reports were they would be available by last March, but the trials fell flat on their faces and they proved ineffective. Now reports are "out by fall" with no news of any trials or possible efficacy.
The efficacy trials were released in June, and are relatively positive -- though not a home-run (the efficacy of the omicron boosters is better than the original shots - but is less than the efficacy of the original vaccine against the original versions of Covid, for example):
I had read both of these and the only thing I was seeing is a blanket statement that amounts to "these are better than the original".
I also read something on the Moderna link... buried in the longest sentence in the world... that amounts to saying phase three clinical trials should be scrapped in favor of "in real world data studies or in larger, more diverse populations following commercialization".
But one google search later revealed the rest of the story.
THE FDA HAS DECIDED CLINICAL TRIALS ARE NO LONGER NECESSARY.
This “Future Framework” now allows reformulation to be pushed through where COVID is concerned, regardless of new molecular entity. Formal regulatory review and trials are now out the window.
From the June 28 meeting: "The manufacturers (Moderna, Pfizer, and Novavax) were asked what their production timelines are… and they said out loud, ‘So long as we don’t have to provide any clinical data, we’ll have them ready by fall.’ No one had a problem with that …"
So, if we follow the timeline...
Moderna and Pfizer work on "omicron specific" booster starting last fall. After 5 months, clinical trials show the "reformulations" are ineffective. The narrative changes to "now working on boosters effective for all strains"... which seemed strange considering they couldn't create one to battle omicron effectively.
Months later, the story reemerges that there will be "omicron specific boosters by fall". Both Pfizer and Moderna release statements that say, basically, "yep, these ones are better". The FDA says, "well then, we don't see any reason for clinical trials".
In other words, if the bar is too high, you can always lower the bar... or in this case, throw the bar away altogether.
1.) In early November 2021, both Moderna and Pfizer began working on Omicron-specific formulations of their vaccines. They had previously also developed delta-specific formulations, but those never made it to real-world tests both because omicron quickly replaced delta, and because the original vaccines were still pretty effective against delta (especially with a booster dose).
2.) At least one of these (Moderna, i believe), announced in late January/early-February that their first tests of the omicron specific booster hadn't worked. This formulation is different than the .214 formulation they are now using. Also, note that these are tested in situ -- meaning that people are given the vaccine, then the have their blood drawn, and then the effectiveness of the antibodies against tissue infected with the omicron virus is tested in the lab. It is a good way to test vaccines - and is much faster than the "give 10,000 people the vaccine and 10,000 people fake vaccines and see how many people get sick over time" approach.
3.) In June, both Moderna and Pfizer (over the course of a few weeks), released information showing that their updated omicron-specific vaccines do improve the immune response (again in situ, using a few different techniques) -- against omicron, compared to the original vaccines. However, this information is already a bit delayed -- because these vaccines were tested on BA.1 (the first omicron variant that came through in January 2022) -- and not on BA.4/BA.5 -- which are the versions currently spreading in the US. There was also a BA.2 wave in November, and a BA.2.12 wave that is currently moving through Africa and India.
4.) Moderna and Pfizer have both developed BA.4/BA.5 versions of the vaccine at present -- but they don't have any data on how these work compared to either the BA.1 version or the original version -- they are unlikely to have that information in time to start mass-producing vaccines by the fall (the physical process of making a tub of vaccine takes about 60 days).
**This is what the article you quoted was talking about, from that article:
"NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. Food and Drug Administration will not require companies to submit clinical trial data on COVID-19 vaccines modified to protect against the BA.4 and BA.5 versions of Omicron in order to authorize those shots, a top FDA official said on Thursday."
5.) This leaves us with four options: (1) use the original vaccine, which has been tested on billions of people at present, but is not optimal at preventing omicron infections, (2) use the BA.1 version, which is proven to be better than the original vaccine in laboratory experiments, but has not been tested on large populations, (3) use a "bi-valent" vaccine, which is a fancy way of saying "give people half a dose of the new vaccine, and half a dose of the original vaccine as a backup in case the new one works less well.", (4) use the new BA.4/BA.5 formulations (possibly with a bivalent backup), which are based on the same science that made the successful BA.1 vaccine, but haven't been tested at all.
It seems to be that we are leaning towards option 3 -- though I've heard some more articles recommending a push towards option 4 in Europe.
It is worth noting that this is how influenza vaccines are produced every year. They do not do the large "10,000" person tests on the influenza vaccine every year. They use a well-established technique to change its formulation based on the new versions of influenza that appear to be spreading (it changes every year -- and around May/June scientists need to make a best-guess as to what the actual influenza strain is going to look like by the winter). This approach is much more successful than using the last years influenza as a template -- but the effectiveness does fluctuate from year to year.
We're likely to see something similar with Covid over the next few years -- variants will change rapidly, and we will become decently good at updating the vaccine to address those variances (with notable hits and misses).
I would imagine that they would have to prove equivalence to a certain threshold in order to be able to leverage the real world safety data that they already have on hand.
I would imagine that they would have to prove equivalence to a certain threshold in order to be able to leverage the real world safety data that they already have on hand.
The press releases spend quite a bit of (in my opinion) unnecessary time showing that the omicron specific booster is just as good at shielding you against the original variants of Covid as the original formulations of the vaccines -- presumably because the agencies demand this information.
It's a bit silly in my opinion, because the original variants of the virus aren't spreading anymore -- it's much more likely that we get a "whatever comes after omicron" variant than we see a re-newed spread of the original virus (or even of alpha/delta).
That's hilarious trying to make it political. I had it twice. Hardly any symptoms once, really sick once. I'm fully vaccinated. Truth is, nobody knows who's going to get hit hard.
It seems everyone we know across the entire country has covid. In fact, I don't know a time in the last couple of years when we have known this many who have all had it at once.
I am really shocked that they haven't locked down the country.
White House posts pic of Biden, 79, back in his mask in isolation after he tested positive for COVID AGAIN after falling foul of 'rebound' case common in elderly patients who have taken Paxlovid
There's a post paxlovid relapse syndrome that's been seen in a small percentage of patients. Tends ro be very mildly symptomatic but isolation is recommended
About as much as Republicans blamed him for it. Are you saying gas prices falling isn't positive news for Biden? Because as much as you would like to make more out of it than that, that's what I said. It's actually positive news for all of us isn't it?
Slow decline? I guess if you consider a month slow.
Do you credit Biden for the slow decrease in prices?
Of course!
Gas prices rise? NOT Biden's fault.
Gas prices fall? Joe Biden did that!
Gas prices $2 higher than when he took office? DANCE IN THE STREETS!
I stay out of these talks because no POTUS has very much control over market forces regardless of party. They can nibble at the edges, but little else. Like QB, they either get all the praise or all the blame. Sometimes, they get both during a term in office.
"You're not going to get covid if you have these vaccinations" - Joe Biden
He also answered the next question about disinformation with this:
"There was a report out saying that for that — something like 45 percent of the overwhelming disinformation on Facebook comes from 12 individuals." - Joe Biden
yeah, I don't know about all of that. Joe had the shot, the booster, the next booster...............and he got it. Covid. Then he got it again. And yet, he knuckled down dissing Trump for going to the hospital (uh, joe, no vaccine when trump got it?)
I don't blame Biden for him being dumb as hell, I blame his handlers. They should be embarrassed. I don't think he knows he's a place holder that will be spit out soon.
But, he sure does the 'biden rush" thing. He "jogs" to everything. He looks like a fool doing it.
Someone ought to just tell him "Joe, go hide" And being 'positive" not once, but twice is working for him. He can hide....
LOL..I have mentioned the "jogging" bit a few times in the past.
I agree, it looks goofy.
I know the intent is to make him look spritely, but everybody knows his age, and everybody knows he isn't like Jack LaLanne, so just be yourself. Geesh.
And for the record, nobody has been like Jack LaLanne. That guy was a "freak" if there ever was one.
I'll give him the credit for the gas prices rising to the highest they have ever been to reducing it by 10% and I really hope they can reduce it by another 30%.
I will also give President Biden credit for being one of the 12 people he said was spreading disinformation.
I'll give him the credit for the gas prices rising to the highest they have ever been to reducing it by 10% and I really hope they can reduce it by another 30%.
I will also give President Biden credit for being one of the 12 people he said was spreading disinformation.
Joe Biden owns the gas price! Plain and simple. he chose to shutdown the pipelines and thus even after price came back down some they are still well over $2.00 more than when he took office.
Yet when the price was $2 a gallon the pipeline wasn't producing any oil. So it appears the pipeline really has nothing to do with it. Also, that was Canadian oil, not American oil and was being refined for export. He didn't "shut down" anything. To shut it down suggests it was operational and producing oil at the time. You can't shut down something that isn't producing.
If there was actually something to show causation over correlation (beyond conjecture that is), I would be glad to review it, but so far I haven't seen it. What confuses me is that there is a lot of areas where Biden can be dinged, but the price of gas seems to be the biggest sticking point.
I believe part of the problem with the gas prices is caused by a lack of refineries. Now which side caused that problem? No clue I never dug into that mess.
From what I've seen we certainly have enough refineries to meet our needs. Now that does not include when we have some type of natural disaster that closes a major refineries are refineries. But I don't think we have less refineries than we had when gas was $2 a gallon. Oil companies setting record profits while fuel prices were at their highest has something to do with it. The fact that oil prices have gone down by a much higher percentage than the cost of fuel certainly has something to do with it also.
Yet when the price was $2 a gallon the pipeline wasn't producing any oil. So it appears the pipeline really has nothing to do with it. Also, that was Canadian oil, not American oil and was being refined for export. He didn't "shut down" anything. To shut it down suggests it was operational and producing oil at the time. You can't shut down something that isn't producing.
That isn't totally correct.
The threat of us being able to do that gave us leverage to at least influence where oils prices went. Once Canadian oil was off the table and the shale oils in the northern plains were shut down when OPEC lowered the price once production there started, making it a non-profit situation, the price went up.
The President came in to office pretty gung-ho against domestic production. While I don't blame him for all the price increases, the actions, or inactions of his administration sure didn't do anything to hold oil prices in check.
So you are faulting what future production was going to be for current prices without any of that production having ever happened in the first place? Okay.
So what do you make of this?
Special Report: Trump told Saudi: Cut oil supply or lose U.S. military support - sources
Inflation is the real economy killer. Gas is included in that.
When the gov't. throws money around willy nilly, prices go up.
More on gas, though: There always is a rise in gas prices during the summer, as the refineries have to make some special blends - I think that's a proper term for it - .
If there was actually something to show causation over correlation (beyond conjecture that is), I would be glad to review it, but so far I haven't seen it. What confuses me is that there is a lot of areas where Biden can be dinged, but the price of gas seems to be the biggest sticking point.
Biden gets dinged on gas prices because democrats dinged Bush and Trump on gas prices. Now that the situation is reversed, suddenly the president gets a free pass. Why the double standard?
Additionally, democrats think more government is the solution to all of our problems. If that's true, expecting Biden to fix inflation seems to be a reasonable expectation. If they can't, then they should fess up and admit the government isn't the solution to everything.
Back to COVID, I was just in line at Tractor Supply, right behind some huge, dirty behemoth with a strong body odor, coughing up a lung and not covering his mouth. I loudly asked the cashier if she had a mask she could give him, and he did apologize. I hope no damage was done.....I backed out and walked around the store for a few minutes before going back to the register. There were only 3 cars in the parking lot when I got there, and I just had to run in and grab some wasp and hornet spray. I didn't think it was risky enough for a mask.
Well, I can see the coughing and not covering his mouth thing. That would bother me as well.
Some people, myself included, DO sweat. Doing manual labor tends to lead to that. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I sweat like a pig most days. I get kinda dirty, depending on the day. Usually it's work products that get on me. I don't apologize to ANYONE for me being sweaty, and possibly dirty. Not everyone can work from home, or work in a/c all day.
If there was actually something to show causation over correlation (beyond conjecture that is), I would be glad to review it, but so far I haven't seen it. What confuses me is that there is a lot of areas where Biden can be dinged, but the price of gas seems to be the biggest sticking point.
Biden gets dinged on gas prices because democrats dinged Bush and Trump on gas prices. Now that the situation is reversed, suddenly the president gets a free pass. Why the double standard?
Additionally, democrats think more government is the solution to all of our problems. If that's true, expecting Biden to fix inflation seems to be a reasonable expectation. If they can't, then they should fess up and admit the government isn't the solution to everything.
So two wrongs make a right? I never noticed anyone blaming Trump for gas prices. I do remember people blaming Bush and that wasn’t right. In either event, finding the lowest common denominator ain’t getting us anywhere lately. The double standard you mentioned cuts both ways. It goes back to my theory that it’s the “who” and not the “what” that matters more to people for whatever odd reason.
I, like you, often times push back in areas where Democrats want more Government, but that is a tired argument nowadays. I find a lot of flaws in areas where the Republicans also want more government. At times, the Republicans leverage government power punitively. To me, it appears both sides pick and choose where they want the Government to be big and where they want it to be small based on what benefits those politicians at that point in time.
Inflation is the real economy killer. Gas is included in that.
When the gov't. throws money around willy nilly, prices go up.
More on gas, though: There always is a rise in gas prices during the summer, as the refineries have to make some special blends - I think that's a proper term for it - .
That’s interesting. I honestly didn’t know that. Is that an octane thing?
Bottom line, to help reduce pollution/smog, etc.....the summer 'blends' cost more to produce. Hence, an automatic uptick in gas prices in the summer, regardless of who is president.
And, since states, and even cities, vary, refineries are stuck with trying to match the blend with the state, etc.
From what I've seen we certainly have enough refineries to meet our needs. Now that does not include when we have some type of natural disaster that closes a major refineries are refineries. But I don't think we have less refineries than we had when gas was $2 a gallon. Oil companies setting record profits while fuel prices were at their highest has something to do with it. The fact that oil prices have gone down by a much higher percentage than the cost of fuel certainly has something to do with it also.
OK I made myself curious lol. But since this is a covid thread I will research and answer in another thread later
Well, I can see the coughing and not covering his mouth thing. That would bother me as well.
Some people, myself included, DO sweat. Doing manual labor tends to lead to that. Nothing wrong with that at all.
I sweat like a pig most days. I get kinda dirty, depending on the day. Usually it's work products that get on me. I don't apologize to ANYONE for me being sweaty, and possibly dirty. Not everyone can work from home, or work in a/c all day.
Just saying.
I said nothing about sweat. There's a difference between BO from working hard and smelling like straight ass.
This variant is incredibly highly transmissible. People are easily getting it at outdoor gatherings… summer concerts, festivals, family BBQs, amusement parks, public pools… Most people are just having sore throats and sinus congestion, but the fatigue and ‘foggy brain’ post sickness is still very prevalent.
I had it a month or so ago, and it was the weirdest sickness I've had. "Foggy brain" is a good a description as any, I guess. It was just really weird.
I have it now (tested positive on Tuesday, again yesterday) but most symptoms are gone. First time I've tested positive since this all began. Nothing too extreme, felt like I had strep.
Sore throat. Congested. Regular, deep coughing. Full body aching (at the beginning).
I probably had a fever, but I didn't check. But you kinda know if you have a fever....it's a feeling we've all had and can pinpoint immediately.
My wife's cousin and his girlfriend both picked it up on an extended Pacific Northwest/Alaska cruise. I found it interesting that both have lost their sense of taste. I thought that particular symptom was only present in the earlier strains, but a couple other people responding to his fb post have also lost it. He lives in California.
The only good news is people mostly are not dying....Daughter and son-in-law, Vegas HS reunion- lots got covid- they stayed 5 extra days in Vegas/ then flew home....followed CDC....they had shots....five guys at retirement community golf course- whole 4some got covid- not dying, but ugly sick. Another problem- less than 50% population has had booster...some only one shot....this could get UGLY again.
Semi correct. Yes get your booster (2nd booster - but in September.
The current vaccine and prior covid infection are poorly protective against current predominate circulating strain. There is an updated vaccine that will available in September (perhaps early October) that should be protective.
As for the numbers shown, 67% of deaths are vaccinated suggests that the majority of people now dying from covid are vaccinated implying that you are more likely to die from covid if you are vaccinated. But 67% of the population is vaccinated and/or boosted so essentially, no difference. However if you do a deeper dive into the numbers presented vaccinated and boosted are less likely to die from covid. Unvaccinated is essentially exactly the percentage. And vaccinated but not boosted are more likely to die.
This can be explained as follows: 1st - vaccinated and boosted is not broken down to vaccinated and boosted once vs vaccinated and doubly boosted. I would bet if you looked at those numbers the doubly boosted would have even fewer deaths and the vaccinated and boosted would be equivalent ot the vaccinated not boosted.
2nd - Almost everyone vaccinated shortly after the vaccine came out and not boosted will not still have protective levels of antibodies. Depending on when someone got boosted, they may or may not have good levels. However, many of them are going to presume that they still have protective antibodies at adequate levels so will act as if they are protected and actually increasing their risk of getting covid.
Semi correct. Yes get your booster (2nd booster - but in September.
The current vaccine and prior covid infection are poorly protective against current predominate circulating strain. There is an updated vaccine that will available in September (perhaps early October) that should be protective.
As for the numbers shown, 67% of deaths are vaccinated suggests that the majority of people now dying from covid are vaccinated implying that you are more likely to die from covid if you are vaccinated. But 67% of the population is vaccinated and/or boosted so essentially, no difference. However if you do a deeper dive into the numbers presented vaccinated and boosted are less likely to die from covid. Unvaccinated is essentially exactly the percentage. And vaccinated but not boosted are more likely to die.
This can be explained as follows: 1st - vaccinated and boosted is not broken down to vaccinated and boosted once vs vaccinated and doubly boosted. I would bet if you looked at those numbers the doubly boosted would have even fewer deaths and the vaccinated and boosted would be equivalent ot the vaccinated not boosted.
2nd - Almost everyone vaccinated shortly after the vaccine came out and not boosted will not still have protective levels of antibodies. Depending on when someone got boosted, they may or may not have good levels. However, many of them are going to presume that they still have protective antibodies at adequate levels so will act as if they are protected and actually increasing their risk of getting covid.
Even more importantly - old people are more likely to be both vaccinated and boosted and are more likely to die of Covid (regardless of vaccination status). If you don't break down the answer for people of different ages, you will get the wrong answer.
To make up illustrative numbers:
Pretend that 50% of the population is "old" and 50% is "young", and that 90% of the old population is vaccinated and 10% of the young percentage is vaccinated. If old people had a 1% chance of dying of Covid if they are unvaccinated and a 0.1% chance of dying of covid if they are vaccinated -- and young people have a 0.1% chance of dying of Covid if they are unvaccinated and 0.01% chance of dying of Covid if they are vaccinated, then if everybody got Covid, the number of unvaccinated deaths and vaccinated deaths would be essentially equal - even though the vaccine decreases the chance that you die by 90% in both age groups.
It's broken? Last I checked it was all science. If you questioned anything you were ignoring science. Six feet? Science. Change six feet to three feet so kids can go back to school? They came right out and said "science prevails" lmfao.
Now the CDC is a voluntary scapegoat for everything that went wrong ahead of the midterms??
Of course it seems it wasn't the guidelines that were the problem. It was the lack of speed they were announced and the execution itself in the response. But you do you.
Of course it seems it wasn't the guidelines that were the problem. It was the lack of speed they were announced and the execution itself in the response. But you do you.
Oh, and a brand new virus that no one knew anything about as well. Remember "2 weeks to curb the rise"? No vaccine, etc. No help from anyone - ANYWHERE, no answers, etc. It takes science a bit of time. And then they change their mind. Remember all of that?
Oh I remember. You know, it used to be considered an attribute to admit your mistakes and move forward by trying to fix them. Now? Not so much obviously.
It's broken? Last I checked it was all science. If you questioned anything you were ignoring science. Six feet? Science. Change six feet to three feet so kids can go back to school? They came right out and said "science prevails" lmfao.
Now the CDC is a voluntary scapegoat for everything that went wrong ahead of the midterms??
Don't need a weathervane, bro.
I'm not sure it's broken so much as beat down after Trump's meddling and the misinformation campaign against them to detract from Trump's abysmal failure of handling the pandemic in the earlier stages. GOPers made science political with disinformation, period. So several of our most important institutions need makeovers and PR campaigns due to relentless political attacks from the fascist right who seem deadset on destroying democracy in America. You can thank the idiots who buy the BS on your side of the aisle.
It's broken? Last I checked it was all science. If you questioned anything you were ignoring science. Six feet? Science. Change six feet to three feet so kids can go back to school? They came right out and said "science prevails" lmfao.
Now the CDC is a voluntary scapegoat for everything that went wrong ahead of the midterms??
Don't need a weathervane, bro.
I'm not sure it's broken so much as beat down after Trump's meddling and the misinformation campaign against them to detract from Trump's abysmal failure of handling the pandemic in the earlier stages. GOPers made science political with disinformation, period. So several of our most important institutions need makeovers and PR campaigns due to relentless political attacks from the fascist right who seem deadset on destroying democracy in America. You can thank the idiots who buy the BS on your side of the aisle.
Ahhh... they were so "beat down" by Trump that they continued to screw the pooch for another two years. Got it.
I guess I should have known that this was Trump's fault.
Hindsight tells us mistakes were made. Science didn't know any better then. NOT politics. Science.
In addition to countless mistakes made, a lot of repeated apologies are necessary too. Especially the displays made from people on this board.
Nah, that will never happen.
Isn't it crazy that when "science", as if professed from a crystal ball, turns out to be wrong... and much of the "disinformation" turns out to be right... it's still the fault of those who dared to ask any questions?
I work at Amazon and they had plexiglass barriers everywhere, since right after Covid hit hard. This week they took down all the ones that were in the lunchrooms. I hope this is a good sign even though I don't think Covid is going to go away anytime soon... Besides now we have something new to worry about - Monkeypox. (Ugh!!!)
Jester could you direct me to your source for the natural immunity from previous infection is not effective against this new strain. I have not read anything like that. It took the cdc 3 years to acknowledge that natural immunity was as effective, or more, and as long lasting, or longer, than the vaccine. I will be interested if that new info is from the cdc.
Oh I remember. You know, it used to be considered an attribute to admit your mistakes and move forward by trying to fix them. Now? Not so much obviously.
It's broken? Last I checked it was all science. If you questioned anything you were ignoring science. Six feet? Science. Change six feet to three feet so kids can go back to school? They came right out and said "science prevails" lmfao.
Now the CDC is a voluntary scapegoat for everything that went wrong ahead of the midterms??
Don't need a weathervane, bro.
I'm not sure it's broken so much as beat down after Trump's meddling and the misinformation campaign against them to detract from Trump's abysmal failure of handling the pandemic in the earlier stages. GOPers made science political with disinformation, period. So several of our most important institutions need makeovers and PR campaigns due to relentless political attacks from the fascist right who seem deadset on destroying democracy in America. You can thank the idiots who buy the BS on your side of the aisle.
Ahhh... they were so "beat down" by Trump that they continued to screw the pooch for another two years. Got it.
I guess I should have known that this was Trump's fault.
Yes, if your head had a better view than the inside of your butt, you should have known. Laugh at that, I did.
How would YOU handle a brand new virus, that no one knows anything about?
I would recognize that I had no idea how to handle it and would call in every scientist in the field for their advice. But you have to have a sense of humility and not be a flipping idiot to do that. This is exactly why Trump failed so miserably. That and his ridiculous mental issue with ever admitting he was wrong or made a mistake. I damn sure wouldn't ask an expert if we should shove UV lights up our asses or ingest disinfectant. smfh.
My parents both had covid recently and felt exactly what was described above: not very serious symptoms but just felt off. It lingered a few days but they feel fine now.
Isn't it crazy that when "science", as if professed from a crystal ball, turns out to be wrong... and much of the "disinformation" turns out to be right...
I haven't been paying attention - but read the last few posts.... this caught my eye. What disinformation was right? The disinformation I remember hearing from the last government still seems like disinformation: That it was going to disappear with the warm weather, that bleach or UV might be a solution, that Bill Gates was going to put microchips in you with the vaccine (that one was Trump supporter, not Trump himself), Ivermectin, Hydroxychloroquine ..... I mean I know the WHO and the CDC didn't get it all right - hell maybe they didn't get much right? But what was the disinformation that proved to be correct ? And by comparison a country like Sweden went in the opposite direction to the rest of the world with their response - and after a catastrophic rise in Covid cases and deaths they reversed their direction .... Countries like South Korea and New Zealand who were strictest seem to have been regarded as the most successful.
Hindsight tells us mistakes were made. Science didn't know any better then. NOT politics. Science.
So you are shocked that an entire new disease nobody had ever heard of took time to figure out and that it was a learn as you go process? I'm shocked you are shocked.
Oh I remember. You know, it used to be considered an attribute to admit your mistakes and move forward by trying to fix them. Now? Not so much obviously.
Like Watsons apology, it is too little too late.
You must have missed the press conference right after the public statements yesterday. His apology was because the women were "triggered" and he still claims he did nothing wrong. In case you missed it, that isn't an apology for anything he did wrong.
Hindsight tells us mistakes were made. Science didn't know any better then. NOT politics. Science.
So you are shocked that an entire new disease nobody had ever heard of took time to figure out and that it was a learn as you go process? I'm shocked you are shocked.
Read your post ^^^ again. Go slowly. Try to understand.
Of course President trump failed miserably! That goes without saying. I know that because candidate biden pointed to the number of Covid deaths and said the President had failed miserably because of all these deaths. Seems like north of 400,000. So losing all those lives clearly demonstrates failure. But, but…….. wait a minute. We have had more Covid deaths since trump left office than we had while he was in office. So I guess if trump was a failure biden must be a mega failure!
The most interesting part of that is that trump encountered a virus never seen before. We had no treatment regimens, we had novaccines . We were flying blind. And we were flying without instruments. Biden on the other hand, benefited from all that had been learned in the previous year. Treatments, a vaccine ready to go , everything that we did not have one year earlier. And yet more deaths. Hmmm.
Trump deserves a lot of credit but people like you, dominated by a visceral hatred and an uncontrolled anger will never see it. Blinded by the light.
Blinded by light for being right? I think Trump's body count was closer to a million. And yes, there are still deaths. But most of the deaths under Trump were avoidable because he could have supported the science and chose not to for purely political reasons and greed. We never had to have the great "masks" debates, the "alternative meds" debates, or the "lockdown (can't work can't eat) starvation" idiocy. Masks were a no-brainer until Trump took a dump on the notion of making them mandatory. His idiotic inability to be wrong or look stupid (he's good at stupid) caused people to die drinking bleach ffs. And Trump initiated the lockdowns THEN goes to war with his own policy and science staff to end them because he was criticized for handouts and bitched at "financial losses" by the elite who faced little fear of being exposed in their ivory towers. They convinced working-class right-wingers that the richest country in the world was too poor to keep people safe with supplemental income while we figured this out! And yes, I know some industries like agriculture and grocery stores were vital and had to keep producing, but everybody could have lived without things like carpet cleaning. No offense to arch, but had he had the basics covered and not feared losing everything or being able to provide for his family, he would never have had to risk exposure and or death to survive. I mean Canada gave every adult $2K a month for well over a year and they aren't doing any worse than us economy-wise right now. How is that possible? Because we were all being lied to so the rich could stuff their pockets. But I get how a trump simp would think this was all 'visceral hatred and uncontrolled anger'...
What? Trump said you didn't need to wear a mask. Trump made up crazy BS about alternative forms of medicine. Asking stupid ass questions about injecting disinfectants in front of the entire nation. What trump took so much grief for, at least from many, was his refusal to go along with many of the sensible guidelines the CDC set forth and promoting quack medication with no basis of evidence they even worked. If you wish to somehow equate those two in your mind go ahead.
I'll just quote you again. You said "So you are shocked that an entire new disease nobody had ever heard of took time to figure out and that it was a learn as you go process?" No, I'm not shocked by that.
It seems you literally cannot understand, or are unable to reason.
Read this, from Keith: "The most interesting part of that is that trump encountered a virus never seen before. We had no treatment regimens, we had novaccines . We were flying blind. And we were flying without instruments. Biden on the other hand, benefited from all that had been learned in the previous year. Treatments, a vaccine ready to go , everything that we did not have one year earlier. And yet more deaths. Hmmm."
Add to those FACTS that it wasn't just the U.S. It was basically the WORLD. But, you hate trump, so you attempt to make a big deal out of it, completely missing the facts of what you stated - an attempt to belittle trump.
You are wasting your time Arch.. some people think what they want to think and read what they want to read.
And those people are morons and sheep who regurgitated the most recent politicized headlines at the time and felt warm and fuzzy inside telling people they were bad human beings for asking questions. In the last two years, I've seen the worst of humanity and it was not the anti-vaccine side. Most of that virtual signaling vitriol was displayed by the routinely identified clowns on this board.
We know 2 people we know in the last 2-3 weeks who had randomly passed out and were rushed to the hospital. 1 was a friend of the family who was in their early 60s and the other was a family member who just turned 70. Don't know all of the details of the friend except they randomly passed out at home. Our family member had to be life flighted because she hit her head on the counter & had a seizure/passed out - she had another seizure while in the hospital. Both good health. Both received shots and boosters. Both seem fine days later - so strange/scary.
You are hilarious and so are the little blind mice that seem to try and deny what trump was doing. He had people using medicines that had NO actual benefit based on no actual scientific evidence. He was actually telling them that wearing a mask wasn't needed. That's not trying to help, backing the science or trying to end a pandemic. It was simply stupid and counterproductive.
All of that was some off the wall BS that only served to harm people. I know many of you don't want to admit that.
Well, I finally got hit last weekend. Bad headache, muscle aches, and the worst sore throat I’ve ever had. Ever time I swallowed it was incredibly intense pain. I was able to get some Paxlovid which I think really helped the symptoms lessen more quickly. Think I likely got it at the Roger Waters concert 2 Wednesday’s ago. I also gave it to my wife.
Yes, anti-maskers ARE morons and sheep. And I know you were calling libs clowns, morons, and sheep but it damn sure reads like the right-wingers, anti-maskers, and anti-trump-going-to-jail clowns are coming out in force to prove once again they are complete idiots. And this same usual board clown doesn't give a damn if your covid infested science denying kids are forced to wear masks. Cry me a river. Pffft. Grown-ass adults telling kids fairytales about masks being bad for them is what caused this problem. Have any of you even considered that we don't have a clue what the long-term effects of covid are on kids? It's leaving a lot of adults with brain fog and other long-term health complications, but to keep little Johnny from crying, you would expose other's children, the least vaccinated/protected age group, vulnerable to highly contagious and potentially lethal disease. And we're the clowns? smh
Y'all are suffering from right-wing propaganda brain rot.
You are wasting your time Arch.. some people think what they want to think and read what they want to read.
And those people are morons and sheep who regurgitated the most recent politicized headlines at the time and felt warm and fuzzy inside telling people they were bad human beings for asking questions. In the last two years, I've seen the worst of humanity and it was not the anti-vaccine side. Most of that virtual signaling vitriol was displayed by the routinely identified clowns on this board.
Well, you would have seen even worse if you watched with the eyes of the left. America going to hell in a handbasket under Trump and his cult of fools; being destroyed by science-denying, non-covid-mandate-complying, golden-idol-worshipping, low brown idiotic fools led by a con-man-and-chief who is the biggest idiot of them all.
Emails show Mehmet Oz pushed Jared Kushner and the White House to use an anti-malaria drug as a Covid treatment, which the WHO later strongly recommended against
Recently released emails from 2020 show how Dr. Mehmet Oz, now the Republican Senate nominee in Pennsylvania, promoted an anti-malaria drug as a COVID-19 treatment directly to the Trump White House in the early stages of the pandemic.
The emails were unveiled on Wednesday in a report from the Select House Committee on the Coronavirus Crisis. They contain messages from Oz to senior White House advisers, including Jared Kushner, former President Donald Trump's son-in-law, and Deborah Birx, who was the administration's coronavirus response coordinator at the time.
Oz had emailed Birx and Kushner separately in March 2020 — a time when the US was still finding its footing in its fight against the virus — urging them to push hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19 before clinical trials were complete.
In his message to Birx, Oz asked for the US to start patient trials for the drug as early as possible and requested that US doctors be allowed to start administering it as a Covid treatment if trials weren't possible.
"We cannot hide behind study protocols if we are not allowed to proceed," he wrote.
"I want to push brave Americans to join trials on my show tomorrow, but cannot without a game plan for accessing drugs," he added. Oz wrote that he would "personally recruit patients and pay for a trial," but was having trouble finding the anti-malaria pills.
He cited the testimony of French microbiologist Dr. Didier Raoult, who said the drug was effective in clearing 24 patients of COVID in a test that wasn't randomized or peer-reviewed.
The same drug was also championed by Trump at around the same time as a treatment for the coronavirus, even though there was no clinical evidence that replicated the results reported by Raoult.
Hydroxychloroquine had been one of many drugs that researchers were racing to test amid the pandemic, but multiple studies later found it doesn't work as a COVID-19 treatment. In March 2021, the World Health Organization also strongly recommended against using of the drug to prevent Covid infections.
Clinical trials a 'plodding process': Oz
On the same day that Oz emailed Birx, he also emailed Kushner promoting a faster rollout of hydroxychloroquine to combat the pandemic.
He noted that the Trump administration and Dr. Anthony Fauci, the White House's chief medical adviser, wanted to conduct randomized trials for the drug before declaring it a COVID-19 treatment.
However, Oz wrote that while these clinical trials were ongoing, the White House "could immediately authorize physicians" to use a drug mixture involving hydroxychloroquine and another drug, azithromycin, to treat Covid patients.
"In addition, you should outline that 130 million hydroxychloroquine pills are coming into the market which can treat 5-10 million people and offer an accurate time-table for additional supply to slow down the coronavirus," Oz wrote to Kushner.
When Kushner responded saying that clinical trials for the drug were starting that week, Oz replied that such studies would be "a plodding process which will take a month before we have results."
He encouraged Kushner to make trials for hydroxychloroquine a "national priority and insist on immediate enrollment."
"It has been almost a week since we learned of the French data and over a month since the Chinese data and we still have no patients in trials," he wrote. "Doctors and nurses are already struggling to find pills for off-label use, but at least we have a potential pandemic solution at our fingertips."
Kushner replied: "What do u recommend to speed it up?"
A week after Oz emailed the two advisers, he sent Birx another message saying that early studies on hydroxychloroquine showed that the drug "was safe and results are better than expected."
The email thread shows that Birx forwarded the email to Stephen Hahn, who was the commissioner of the Food and Drug Administration at the time. "We should talk," her email read.
The messages from Oz are part of a larger report from the House Committee that accused senior officials in the Trump administration of pressuring the FDA to authorize unproven treatments for emergency use against COVID-19.
Hydroxychloroquine had been one of the main drugs that Trump advisers pushed to get reinstated for emergency authorization, per the report.
In June, Birx testified before the committee investigating the coronavirus crisis that people were communicating with the Trump dangerous ideas about hydroxychloroquine "on a daily basis."
Oz did not immediately respond to Insider's request for comment.
House panel details Trump pressure on FDA for discredited COVID treatment, vaccines
Top Trump administration officials pressured the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to reauthorize the discredited COVID-19 treatment hydroxychloroquine, and to speed up the release of the first COVID-19 vaccines, according to a new report Democrats on the House select coronavirus subcommittee released Wednesday.
Emails, text messages and testimony obtained by the committee show the Trump White House “exerted extreme and inappropriate pressure” on the FDA to reauthorize hydroxychloroquine even after it was shown to be ineffective and potentially dangerous.
The report found administration officials like trade adviser Peter Navarro enlisted outside allies like Fox News host Laura Ingraham and daytime TV talk show host Mehmet Oz — now the GOP nominee for Senate in Pennsylvania — to amplify pressure on the FDA to authorize hydroxychloroquine, a drug normally used to treat malaria and lupus, as a COVID-19 treatment.
Hydroxychloroquine has been heavily promoted as a treatment for the virus by Trump allies despite almost no evidence.
Navarro and Steven Hatfill, an adjunct assistant professor at George Washington University brought on by Navarro as an adviser to the coronavirus response, led coordinated attacks on FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn, infectious disease expert Anthony Fauci and other health officials who refused to support hydroxychloroquine.
“Newly released evidence shows that Dr. Hatfill and Mr. Navarro used their direct access to top public health officials in an attempt to strongarm them into supporting hydroxychloroquine,” the report stated.
The FDA issued an emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine in late March 2020, but then revoked it less than three months later.
The report also details how the Trump administration influenced the FDA to deliver misleadingly positive news about convalescent plasma as a coronavirus treatment on the eve of the 2020 Republican National Convention (RNC) and White House attempts to block the FDA from collecting additional safety data on the first coronavirus vaccine in an attempt to ensure that it could be authorized before the 2020 presidential election.
Trump later attacked Hahn, without evidence, for deliberately slowing down the authorizations of the vaccine and convalescent plasma because of politics.
“The Select Subcommittee’s findings that Trump White House officials deliberately and repeatedly sought to bend FDA’s scientific work on coronavirus treatments and vaccines to the White House’s political will are yet another example of how the prior Administration prioritized politics over public health,” Rep. James Clyburn (D-S.C.), the panel’s chair, said in a statement.
The efforts by members of the Trump administration, including the former president, to meddle with public health agencies has been well documented. However, the report offers new levels of detail on the pressures put on the FDA in 2020.
Clyburn noted the Trump administration’s attacks on public health officials helped contribute to a politicization of science, and reduced the public’s trust in the government.
“These assaults on our nation’s public health institutions undermined the nation’s coronavirus response—and are precisely why we must never again settle for leaders who prioritize politics over keeping Americans safe,” Clyburn said.
In testimony before committee staff, Hahn said he felt pressure because of Navarro’s “persistence” in insisting that hydroxychloroquine worked and should be reauthorized, despite strong evidence to the contrary.
“We took a different stance at the FDA,” Hahn said. “So that disagreement, which of course ultimately became somewhat public, was a source of pressure.”
In an emailed statement, Navarro said the select subcommittee was “wrongly” perpetuating that hydroxychloroquine “was somehow dangerous.”
Navarro also cited excerpts from his memoir that chronicled his clashes with what he described as the “never-Trump FDA.”
The subcommittee report also details how the FDA wanted to advise vaccine manufacturers that the FDA wanted 60 days worth of follow-up patient safety data before applications for emergency use authorization were filed. That request would mean authorization wouldn’t occur until after the November 2020 election.
Trump had repeatedly said the shots would be authorized before Election Day, despite experts and agency scientists signaling it was unlikely.
Hahn told the committee the agency faced “pushback about the issue” from multiple officials, including Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows. Meadows said the White House wouldn’t sign off on the guidance, because of the 60-day requirement.
The agency eventually circumvented the White House by quietly publishing the 60-day data request as part of a larger set of background documents for industry. Meadows later that day told Hahn the White House had cleared the release of the guidance.
Trump later attacked the FDA on Twitter.
“New FDA Rules make it more difficult for them to speed up vaccines for approval before Election Day. Just another political hit job!” Trump wrote, tagging Hahn.
This is a prime example of what anecdotal evidence looks like.
This is a prime example of knowing what was gonna happen.
I never claimed causation, heck I don't even claim a correlation, but I knew you'd get on it. rofl:
Sometimes it is just too easy.
FrankZ - I have no beef with you. But I think you need to look at what you posted and figure out if you are being as smart and clever as you clearly think you are. It's a message board and none of this actually means a damn in the real world - but in response to a discussion about Covid and fake news .... you posted a comment that anyone with a a little reasoning and putting the comment into context with the discussion would interpret as at least mild support for Hydroxychloroquine being helpful with preventing Covid ... you did not write the words "I did not get covid because of ..." but anyone following the conversation would draw a natural and reasonable understanding that was implied.
So your follow up post bragging about a gotcha moment either means you don't understand how conversations work - or - you were deliberately trying to troll and play "gotcha".... and neither is a good look. It's not a 'gotcha' in any way shape or form.
To use an example from a different part of this board - It's a bit like talking about an injured player - telling everyone for months that the injury had little / no impact on the players performance - telling everyone that the replacement player isn't much different in terms of ability, will make better decisions, is more mobile and will turn the ball over less even if he might not have quite as much arm talent .... and then when another poster says that the implication is the replacement must be better than the other guy, calling him a liar. That wasn't you - but it's the same sort of thing. The real world implication is that if someone believes two QB's are about the same, but one makes better decisions, turns the ball over less and is more mobile ... then one is better than the other. And crying "liar" when another poster says that is just wrong. That's sort of what you are doing here.
you posted a comment that anyone with a a little reasoning and putting the comment into context with the discussion would interpret as at least mild support for Hydroxychloroquine being helpful with preventing Covid ... you did not write the words "I did not get covid because of ..." but anyone following the conversation would draw a natural and reasonable understanding that was implied.
A: It was snark (I think you know that). He likes to poke Pit. He knew Pit would respond. It's entertainment to some of us... although, I must admit, after awhile it becomes boring and way too predictable.
B: So what? People say they take vitamins and haven't had COVID. I know some that still insist taking Zinc has prevented infection...
Remember when people said getting vaccinated prevented COVID? By people I mean Joe Biden and Anthony Fauci... "if you get vaccinated you will not get COVID". Remember when if anyone even questioned the validity of such a broad statement they were accused of spreading misinformation and denying science? Had accounts shut down, got fired from their jobs?
And now there's Pit with a statement like "this is what crazy looks like"... Because someone was advocating quickly starting trials to explore the possibility of approving a drug for treatment that was found to be successful in other parts of the world. At a time when it seemed the world may be coming to an end. No vaccines. People dropping like flies. Countries like Greece refusing to treat people over 80 years of age.
That's where we were when "this is what crazy looks like" took place. Hydroxychloroquine wasn't something someone pulled out of the sky. The world was in a helpless state and reaching for anything. China was conducting clinical trials. France reported success. In 2002 hydroxychloroquine was deemed to effectively inhibit the infection and transmission of SARS-CoV.
But oh, the horror of someone advocating the use of a drug who's side affects are headache, nausea and loss of appetite. But we all know why... because Trump said it may work.
If it were Obama there would be fire trucks driving down the streets throwing out pills like candy at a parade... and we'd all be hailing him as a savior. Cracks me up.
To use an example from a different part of this board - It's a bit like talking about an injured player - telling everyone for months that the injury had little / no impact on the players performance - telling everyone that the replacement player isn't much different in terms of ability, will make better decisions, is more mobile and will turn the ball over less even if he might not have quite as much arm talent .... and then when another poster says that the implication is the replacement must be better than the other guy, calling him a liar. That wasn't you - but it's the same sort of thing. The real world implication is that if someone believes two QB's are about the same, but one makes better decisions, turns the ball over less and is more mobile ... then one is better than the other. And crying "liar" when another poster says that is just wrong. That's sort of what you are doing here.
Yes, when people have an unwavering agenda it is too easy, defending Baker no matter what, Watson being scum no matter what, orange man bad no matter what.
Maybe.... I don't know. The glee and the overzealous way in which he's doubled down on how smart he is and how easily he manipulates us all seems to be genuine.
When the whole pandemic started HQC was floated as a possible deterrent or something that might make SARSCov2 more bearable. This wasn't done by Trump, it was by scientists who understand how the drug works as an antiviral and that had studied it against other virii. I remember being elated and worried about this as I take 2 of them every day. Not for malaria, but I do take them. I was worried as anything mentioned that might help with SARSCov2 became unobtainium in the blink of an eye. And even though was a massive stock pile of the drug it was worrisome if I can't get the medication I need.
I have a couple of friends that are doctors (GP) and they had people calling their office looking to see if they could get a script. The state sent a bulletin to doctors warning them about prescribing it unless it was for an FDA approved reason. People were in a panic and looking for anything they could get their hands on to stay away from the dreaded coof. Then Donald Trump mentions it might be useful and suddenly science says otherwise. The liberal machine went into action and told us that science says no. There really hadb't been any good studies but suddenly it wasn't possible that HQC could, even remotely, help with SARSCov2. There are so many people that would rather see the country burn to damn ground that let mean orange man even get a whiff of a win. The hatred is, and was, a larger driving force than people being protected.
Saying Trump said it is, at best, disingenuous, but that really won't stop you. You pound the agenda, beat the drum and show at a turn you don't really think about things, you read a headline and it becomes guiding principle. Trump was not the start of the HQC discussion in this country, but because he mentioned it that became the end of the discussion.
Of course now you will read every 5th word and come back with one of your stupid lines. Yes I can speak English. Yes I understand the current situation with Trump, and I understand the absolute onslaught of vitriol and propaganda that was thrown in his direction from the moment he garnered the Republican nomination. I understand the ig headed stubbornness of people that could not, for a second, overcome their hate of the man to let him lead this country in the capacity he was elected for. But again, you will and insult people instead of thinking for yourself.
Why on Earth should anyone actually post anything more than a dismissive quip at you when you don't really care to debate points, you are here to insult, fight and virtue signal. You are here to troll people that you have deemed beneath you because they simply do not agree with your OPINION on things.
And no, you do not say things outright. You dance around the issue. You have very selective memory on that it seems, but that isn't surprising since you have selectie reading skills as well.
Maybe.... I don't know. The glee and the overzealous way in which he's doubled down on how smart he is and how easily he manipulates us all seems to be genuine.
to be fair I hae been entertaining a 9 year old the last couple of days and discussion of anything with pit is pretty much the same mindset.
Maybe.... I don't know. The glee and the overzealous way in which he's doubled down on how smart he is and how easily he manipulates us all seems to be genuine.
to be fair I hae been entertaining a 9 year old the last couple of days and discussion of anything with pit is pretty much the same mindset.
When the whole pandemic started HQC was floated as a possible deterrent or something that might make SARSCov2 more bearable. This wasn't done by Trump,
Trump was asked about a video he shared on Twitter that went viral across social media platforms that claimed hydroxychloroquine is “a cure for Covid.”
Hydroxychloroquine, the anti-malarial drug Donald Trump is taking to prevent Covid-19, has been linked to increased deaths in patients treated with it in hospitals around the world, a study has shown.
A major study of the way hydroxychloroquine and its older version, chloroquine, have been used on six continents – without clinical trials – reveals a sobering picture. Scientists said the results meant the drug should no longer be given to Covid-19 patients except in proper research settings.
Hey - I'm not a Dr and I'm not saying these news reports are 100% true - I certainly doubt they are 100% false.... But yes, Trump helped lead the charge and 100% supported the idea that HQC was a viable treatment.
Actually it had not been approved nor pier reviewed. "Floated around" seems to be your go to here. Face it, when actually tested it doesn't work, it didn't work and it won't work. You go on with your gibberish. Trump stated on national TV about a medication that was not approved nor was properly tested. Then and only then were doctors flooded with calls. That's not something a president should do. So you go on with your BS to rationalize that. That's pretty much all you have at this point.
Actually it had not been approved nor pier reviewed. "Floated around" seems to be your go to here. Face it, when actually tested it doesn't work, it didn't work and it won't work. You go on with your gibberish. Trump stated on national TV about a medication that was not approved nor was properly tested. Then and only then were doctors flooded with calls. That's not something a president should do. So you go on with your BS to rationalize that. That's pretty much all you have at this point.
And I did not state that it had, or had not been, peer reviewed. I just watched a bunch of people exploding because Trump suggested that it could be useful.
Originally Posted by PitDAWG
So you go on with your BS to rationalize that. That's pretty much all you have at this point.
And there it is. This is the point precisely. You refuse to ever have a debate, you have mud slinging sessions. When people respond you play the victim while slinging more. At least you don't follow me around the forum like you do with Vers. I suppose that is, in itself, a blessing.
Moderna is suing rival company Pfizer and German drugmaker BioNTech for allegedly copying its technology behind the development of the first COVID-19 vaccines. In a lawsuit filed in the US and Germany yesterday, Moderna accuses Pfizer/BioNTech of infringing patents it filed between 2010 and 2016, saying the companies copied elements of its mRNA technology (see 101) without permission, including a chemical modification that avoids triggering an undesirable immune response.
Moderna says it is neither seeking to remove the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine off the market nor stop sales of it, but it is seeking unspecified monetary damages for sales beginning after March 8, 2022. In March, Moderna said it would not enforce its patents against manufacturers in 92 developing nations to address global vaccine inequity but signaled it would enforce it in wealthy nations as vaccine supply was no longer a barrier to access.
The Food and Drug Administration first granted emergency authorization to the Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine in December 2020, followed by the Moderna vaccine a week later.
"No fair! You were saving lives using our technology!!"
The only people whining here are you and Eve trying to excuse trump getting people to hound their doctors for unapproved medications that didn't fight covid. Excusing the actions of idiot trump isn't something rational people do or find worthy of discussion. I've tried having discussions with you. You just turn nasty and attack. You just hate it when I turned the tables on you. Deal with it. Or don't. I really don't give a damn.
And eve is the nastiest, most attacking poster on this board. It doesn't surprise me the two of you would agree with each other.
The only people whining here are you and Eve trying to excuse trump getting people to hound their doctors for unapproved medications that didn't fight covid. Excusing the actions of idiot trump isn't something rational people do or find worthy of discussion. I've tried having discussions with you. You just turn nasty and attack. You just hate it when I turned the tables on you. Deal with it. Or don't. I really don't give a damn.
And eve is the nastiest, most attacking poster on this board. It doesn't surprise me the two of you would agree with each other.
Except I am not whining, you just hear it like that because you have this idea you are so right in everything you think there is no way anything else is possible. The sad part is you are the most toxic person this place has, by far. BUt hey, you think you are wonderful so it *must* be true.
You never have discussions with people, you have discussion at people. And when people don't buy you ipse dixit you resort to insults, mocking and all manner of deflection. You do you, enjoy your misery.
And there you have it. You and your whining cronies have spoken. You have tried to make excuses why it's okay for a president to go on TV and tell the American people "I have heard" or "I hear a lot of people saying", giving them false hope about an unconfirmed medication that was proven not to help Covid at all, is something that should be accepted or okay. While the strain of Covid at the time had Americans dying in masses people were flooding their doctors with calls and requests for medication that didn't work. You have tried to make excuses for that as if that's okay. Well it's not.
And then you have people seemingly applauding that. No wonder this country is so screwed up right now. I've tried having discussions with you before. You just end up attacking when you get cornered. Not my problem. There is no room for discussing the indefensible. That's a you problem.
And there you have it. You and your whining cronies have spoken. You have tried to make excuses why it's okay for a president to go on TV and tell the American people "I have heard" or "I hear a lot of people saying", giving them false hope about an unconfirmed medication that was proven not to help Covid at all, is something that should be accepted or okay. While the strain of Covid at the time had Americans dying in masses people were flooding their doctors with calls and requests for medication that didn't work. You have tried to make excuses for that as if that's okay. Well it's not.
And then you have people seemingly applauding that. No wonder this country is so screwed up right now. I've tried having discussions with you before. You just end up attacking when you get cornered. Not my problem. There is no room for discussing the indefensible. That's a you problem.
every politician reacts and says things. BUt TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMP is bad orange man and he has to be perfect.
Can you name any time a president started promoting an unauthorized medication in a time of crisis in America? I didn't think so. I think you're having a problem comprehending the difference in a president saying something stupid and something dangerous and deadly. That's a you problem. "A lot of people are saying" isn't the kind of BS you say during a deadly pandemic. But you go ahead and keep defending it.
George Washington John Adams Thomas Jefferson James Madison James Monroe John Quincy Adams Andrew Jackson Martin Van Buren William Henry Harrison John Tyler James K. Polk Zachary Taylor Millard Fillmore Franklin Pierce James Buchanan Abraham Lincoln Andrew Johnson Ulysses S. Grant Rutherford B. Hayes James A. Garfield Chester A. Arthur Benjamin Harrison Grover Cleveland William McKinley Theodore Roosevelt
No vaccine regulations, anybody could make and sell a a vaccine. All presidents promoted smallpox inoculation.
And smallpox was wiped out. So what medications did those presidents recommend again during a deadly pandemic? Obviously you didn't understand the question.
And smallpox was wiped out. So what medications did those presidents recommend again during a deadly pandemic? Obviously you didn't understand the question.
FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems
Does not affect FDA-approved uses for malaria, lupus, and rheumatoid arthritis
Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine for COVID-19: Drug Safety Communication - FDA Cautions Against Use Outside of the Hospital Setting or a Clinical Trial Due to Risk of Heart Rhythm Problems
Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Revokes Emergency Use Authorization for Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine June 15, 20
And that sure didn't last long. He either suggested it before it was approved or he didn't. And once the FDA looked into it a little further, they changed course right away. Let's not pretend the FDA's hand wasn't pressured into approving it in the first place.
And that sure didn't last long. He either suggested it before it was approved or he didn't. And once the FDA looked into it a little further, they changed course right away. Let's not pretend the FDA's hand wasn't pressured into approving it in the first place.
again... the FDA still made the decision to approve it. Trump mentioned it once it was a week from approval. This was no different than any of the other shots that Pfizer J&J etc were initially approved for emergency use and he mentioned prior to their approval.
HQ didn't last long because people were doing dumb things like self-medicating as if it were tide pods and people were using it outside of the hospital.
And smallpox was wiped out. So what medications did those presidents recommend again during a deadly pandemic? Obviously you didn't understand the question.
Well, the smallpox vaccine was originally just taking pus from the inflicted or dead and jabbing that into a cut on your arm. And that disgusting idea was high tech for the times, so there's that. Imagine a president telling Fate what he had to do to get rid of his gonorrhea... He probably wouldn't be as on board with that as he is sticking a UV light up his arse, drinking bleach, or taking a malaria medicine that has never been proven to treat covid.
We are both thinking people, I'd rather spar with you here and there because we can still get along elsewhere. It's much more fun to debate when both sides are willing to admit when they are wrong. Arguing with the brain dead is just exhausting.
So trump was promoting a medication for Covid that had not yet been approved. Thanks for that confirmation. And no, look again. It was repealed from being approved because of damaging side effects. People abuse all sorts of medications and they are still not recalled from approval by the FDA because people abuse them. That's ridiculous.
So trump was promoting a medication for Covid that had not yet been approved. Thanks for that confirmation. And no, look again. It was repealed from being approved because of damaging side effects. People abuse all sorts of medications and they are still not recalled from approval by the FDA because people abuse them. That's ridiculous.
Fact. It was approved by the FDA for emergency use. Fact. Trump made comments 1 week before it was approved for emergency use. Fact. The FDA messed up and recalled the approval for emergency use. Fact. the FDA has and does recall medications because people abuse them.
And that sure didn't last long. He either suggested it before it was approved or he didn't. And once the FDA looked into it a little further, they changed course right away. Let's not pretend the FDA's hand wasn't pressured into approving it in the first place.
again... the FDA still made the decision to approve it. Trump mentioned it once it was a week from approval. This was no different than any of the other shots that Pfizer J&J etc were initially approved for emergency use and he mentioned prior to their approval.
HQ didn't last long because people were doing dumb things like self-medicating as if it were tide pods and people were using it outside of the hospital.
FWIW, I think you're probably right here. Anecdotally, I was hearing about people trying to stock up in hydroxychloroquine to use outside hospital or Dr. Risk/benefit probably tipped back the other direction due to benefits not being as good as once assumed and risks going up because people were smarter than the doctors.
You once again have helped prove trump was endorsing the medication before it was ever approved. It has been absolutely been shown that it was recalled from approval because of negative side effects and not misuse. Now explain why Opioids are still on the market if abuse is such a huge issue? And without a big pharma conspiracy theory please.
So trump was promoting a medication for Covid that had not yet been approved. Thanks for that confirmation. And no, look again. It was repealed from being approved because of damaging side effects. People abuse all sorts of medications and they are still not recalled from approval by the FDA because people abuse them. That's ridiculous.
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
Fact. It was approved by the FDA for emergency use. Fact. Trump made comments 1 week before it was approved for emergency use. Fact. The FDA messed up and recalled the approval for emergency use. Fact. the FDA has and does recall medications because people abuse them.
You once again have helped prove trump was endorsing the medication before it was ever approved. It has been absolutely been shown that it was recalled from approval because of negative side effects and not misuse. Now explain why Opioids are still on the market if abuse is such a huge issue? And without a big pharma conspiracy theory please.
How am I the one moving the goal posts? You're the one who keeps proving my point. Trump was pimping this medication before it was approved. It was recalled from approval because of negative side effects like I said instead of the abuse as you claimed.
Hydroxychloroquine or Chloroquine for COVID-19: Drug Safety Communication - FDA Cautions Against Use Outside of the Hospital Setting or a Clinical Trial Due to Risk of Heart Rhythm Problems
I'll tell you what... some of this COVID stuff you simply can't make up.
Going on a cruise after Thanksgiving. Just booked two weeks ago and they've already changed protocol three times lol.
Bottom line, being unvaccinated (who gives a crap if I've had COVID twice), I'll have to be tested before boarding. Anybody who is vaccinated just shows their card and jumps on the ship -- regardless of the fact that they may have had the jab nearly three years prior.
Here's the best part: All I need to do is take a picture of the negative test while holding it... or a pic of it on a piece of paper with my name written on it. Seems legit. If I were one of the paranoid travelers, I would be more concerned about that protocol (never mind the fact that everyone should probably test) than the fact that there will be unvaccinated onboard. But hey, whatever, as long as they look like they're "toeing the line" with narrative, all is well.
So I send for my remaining free tests from the gubment... I get a bag with different tests from different manufacturers. Must be sweeping out the back of the trailer or picking them out of the bargain bin at Dollar Tree. We'll probably run out again right before Christmas.
I will. I'm hopeful that things remain rather tame through the TG holiday.
If anyone with a brain was in charge they would test everybody before they boarded the ship... 4000 passengers and crew, with only about 25% being tested means there will be more than a handful carrying the virus in an early stage when we leave the port... or maybe even already have it and know it... and just don't care. Seems like we've become allergic to common sense.
Most cruise lines are refunding all monies if you test positive within 10 days of the cruise. I'm sure they're pretty excited about not having to test 75% and offer refunds; which equates to them knowing damn well people will be boarding with the virus. Only three of us will have to test, but it still seems like a crapshoot that all ten board the ship.
The President was “promoting” a medication that received an EUA a few days later. My guess is that the President received some advance notice of the coming approval. No idea why that bothers anyone. Just as I have no idea why anyone is bothered by dr oz encouraging the FDA to initiate clinical trials on hydroxy. That is how we learn what works and what does not.
I’m sure your concerns with dr oz and the President are that people who heard him “promoting” hydroxy” might use it instead of asking their doctor for one of the therapeutics that had been proven safe and effective against the China virus. Oh, wait, there were no therapeutics at that time that were proven safe and effective. None. So as we do any time we encounter new disease causing organisms we start throwing things at it until we find something that works. According to British journal Lancet there had been some early small trials that showed some promise and since we had decades of experience with hydroxy being safe there was no reason not to try it. I guess my point is that anyone who gets bent out of shape about the President and hydroxy are just looking for an excuse to get bent out of shape. And any old thing will do.
On another topic, while I am never surprised by anything springing forth from the Peoples Republic of California I did take a long look at this new law out there awaiting the governor’s signature. I have not read it but from what I have heard it empowers the state to pull the medical license of any physician who communicates anything to his/her patient about Covid that does not comport with the current orthodoxy. Wow!!! Think about it folks! If that law had been in effect 1-2 years ago a doc could have lost her license for telling a patient that the vaccine would not keep him from getting Covid, that the vaccine would not prevent him from spreading Covid, that natural immunity was not as effective or long lasting as vaccine “immunity”. She would have lost her license for telling patients things that were perfectly accurate but that did not comply with current orthodoxy. Hmm! I wonder how many pieces of current orthodoxy will be proven wrong down the road and how many docs will have lost their license for disputing them.
On the bright side, I look for the enactment of this law to result in a migration of great docs to my home state, the Free State of Florida. Should improve our health care. Thanks Cali!
I'm sure nobody seems to care it was found that none of that BS worked and was pulled from being used for Covid either. Sure, Trump knew it would be approved before the FDA even knew they were going to approve it. Yeah, like that happened. Let me tell you, trump opened his mouth and doctors were flooded with calls. Since the drug was approved for Malaria the FDA didn't think it would do any harm to approve it for emergency use. What the FDA didn't say is if it would actually help with Covid. Which it didn't. But you see, a funny thing happened on the way to the forum. Covid weakened the lungs and in conjunction the heart so much that the side effects, including heart arrhythmia, (an irregular heartbeat) far outweighed handing this stuff out like candy so they pulled it very quickly.
You know, you would think that after these medications have been debunked as having any benefit for Covid for so long now, People would just admit it was nothing more than quackery. But no, still this BS continues.
You are a walking, talking advertisement for “ visceral and uncontrolled anger”. If I have ever encountered a person on a message board for whom “going postal” seemed like a real possibility, it would be you.
lmao It is what it is. For people who hated being PC so much they sure don't seem to like it when people address them in a non PC way. I warned them to be careful what they wished for. They didn't listen so now they are getting what they asked for.
I don't consider any of the BS people post worthy of visceral and uncontrolled anger. Just a dose of brutal honesty. And the funniest part of it is, many of the very people they vote for and support say things much worse than I do. So it has nothing to do with what I'm saying, it's about who's saying it. I'm just not some far left liberal that's going to kiss your ass. Sorry if that bothers you. I was raied by a former Army Master sergeant. Not some bean sprout eating tree hugger.
Yes I did. My mistake. I did find it confusing because I couldn't imagine what you saw in my post that would illicit such a response. Once again, my mistake.
Pit, I think it is safe to say we have almost no common ground on this subject, but here is one final thought. From whom did these two quotes originate.
“…….an entire new disease nobody had ever heard of took time to figure out and that it was a learn as you go process.”
“….Trump encountered a virus never seen before. We had no treatment regimens. We had no vaccines. We were flying blind and flying without instruments.”
Now, Pit, those say very much the same thing. Different words but same thought. And they are both right on the money! Very accurate! And they come from you and me who totally agree on this point. But for some reason you do not apply your own thinking to President Trump. Those quotes describe the boat he was in perfectly.
Now if you wish to discuss some off shoot, crackpot idea in private with health experts, fine. But to just throw out this kind of garbage on national TV, Houston, we have a problem. What you seem to be proposing is that trump, who has no medical background, knows nothing about viral infections, go on TV and say a bunch of nutty BS seems to be some acceptable response. Yeah..... no.
NYC fires another 850 teachers and teaching aides after they failed to get the COVID vaccine by September 5 deadline - bringing total to 1,950 terminated by department of education since vaccine mandate took effect
NYC fires another 850 teachers and teaching aides after they failed to get the COVID vaccine by September 5 deadline - bringing total to 1,950 terminated by department of education since vaccine mandate took effect
NYC fires another 850 teachers and teaching aides after they failed to get the COVID vaccine by September 5 deadline - bringing total to 1,950 terminated by department of education since vaccine mandate took effect
NYC fires another 850 teachers and teaching aides after they failed to get the COVID vaccine by September 5 deadline - bringing total to 1,950 terminated by department of education since vaccine mandate took effect
President Joe Biden has declared the pandemic over in the US, even as the number of Americans who have died from Covid continues to rise.
"We're still doing a lot of work on it. But the pandemic is over," said Mr Biden in a television interview.
Statistics show that over 400 Americans on average are dying from the virus each day.
The head of the World Health Organization (WHO) said last week that the end of the pandemic was "in sight".
In an interview with CBS programme 60 Minutes aired on Sunday, Mr Biden said the situation was rapidly improving, even though a lot of work was being done to control the virus.
The interview - aired over the weekend - was partly filmed on the floor of the Detroit Auto Show, where the president gestured towards the crowds.
"If you notice, no-one's wearing masks," he said. "Everybody seems to be in pretty good shape... I think it's changing."
But administration officials told US media on Monday that the comments did not signal a change in policy and there were no plans to lift the ongoing Covid-19 public health emergency.
In August, US officials extended the public health emergency, which has been in place since January 2020, through to 13 October.
To date, more than one million Americans have died with Covid.
Data from Johns Hopkins University shows that the seven-day average of deaths currently stands at over 400, with more than 3,000 dead in the past week alone.
In January 2021, by comparison, more than 23,000 people were reported dead with the virus over a single week-long span. About 65% of the total US population is considered fully vaccinated.
Certain federal vaccine mandates remain in place in the US - including on healthcare workers, military personnel and some non-US citizens entering the country by plane.
Top Republicans criticised the president's remarks, with former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo tweeting: "Biden now says 'the pandemic is over' as he's kicking tens of thousands of healthy soldiers out of the military with his COVID vaccine mandate."
Public health officials have expressed cautious optimism in recent weeks that the world is edging towards a pandemic recovery, but continue to urge people to be careful.
On Monday, Dr Anthony Fauci, head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, acknowledged the situation had improved.
But in comments made at a Washington DC think tank, he said the daily death rate remained "unacceptably high".
"We are not where we need to be if we're going to be able to 'live with the virus'," Dr Fauci said.
He also cautioned that new Covid-19 variants could still emerge, especially in the coming winter months.
The US recently authorised new vaccines that match the version of the Omicron variant currently dominant in the country, with federal health officials asking Americans to keep their jabs up-to-date.
Last week, WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said that the world has "never been in a better position to end the pandemic".
"We are not there yet," he said. "But the end is in sight."
Covid-19 also continues to have a significant impact on the US economy, with the National Bureau of Economic Research reporting last week that Covid-related disease had slashed the US workforce by about 500,000 people.
Mr Biden said he believes that the pandemic has had a "profound" impact on the psyche of Americans.
"That has changed everything... people's attitudes about themselves, their families, about the state of the nation, about the state of their communities," he said.
"It's been a very difficult time. Very difficult."
More than 6.5 million people have died since the beginning of the pandemic around the world. The US has had the highest death toll, followed by India and Brazil.
NYC fires another 850 teachers and teaching aides after they failed to get the COVID vaccine by September 5 deadline - bringing total to 1,950 terminated by department of education since vaccine mandate took effect
I bet Typhoid Mary asked that same question. And why did all those innocent rats have to die to end the black plague? The "wHaT AbOuT mAh RiGhTs" club should have jumped in then too. Conflating women's autonomy rights over their own body regarding reproduction with wearing a mask, or getting a vaccine to help the world end a lethal pandemic is nothing more than KAREN being a victim, highly politicized. If I had to judge that case for Karen, my judgment would include the acronym STFU directed at Karen. And then there would be copious amounts of feigned outrage and clutching of the pearls from the drama section of the party of ridiculousness before I ordered the beheadings. But after all of that madness and hoopla, the world would be a better place... addition by subtraction.
Of course, I'm kidding about the club bit. It's actually a cult.
![[Linked Image from media3.giphy.com]](https://media3.giphy.com/media/11Wkoq2MaUbLXi/giphy.gif)
![[Linked Image from c.tenor.com]](https://c.tenor.com/2kmDRTqIIDAAAAAM/kitty-so-cute-head-pat.gif)
![[Linked Image from c.tenor.com]](https://c.tenor.com/Y0fH-3sQDQsAAAAC/jake-tapper-jake-tapper-crickets.gif)
![[Linked Image from assets.ltkcontent.com]](https://assets.ltkcontent.com/images/92837/straw-man-fallacy_3518d7c89e.jpg)
![[Linked Image from thumbnails.cbc.ca]](https://thumbnails.cbc.ca/maven_legacy/thumbnails/413/703/Summit-Americas-june-9_copy.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.dailymail.co.uk]](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06/13/16/59018969-0-image-a-17_1655135711540.jpg)
![[Linked Image from pbs.twimg.com]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUzm3u6UcAA8def.jpg)
![[Linked Image from substackcdn.com]](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F68404f48-149b-4b57-afb8-4004c26e7a3a_980x454.png)
![[Linked Image from media4.giphy.com]](https://media4.giphy.com/media/0jSXEQ6CW6l5pK7Lh9/giphy.gif)
He probably wouldn't be as on board with that as he is sticking a UV light up his arse, drinking bleach, or taking a malaria medicine that has never been proven to treat covid.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/OCCQkQ1.jpg)