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Originally Posted by mac
sometimes numbers used to measure a players performance don't amount to much!
Yep.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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The eye test usually works!

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rofl smh...


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted by THROW LONG
Originally Posted by mac
sometimes numbers used to measure a players performance don't amount to much!
Yep.

No doubt that sometimes smart people fail in school.

The grades don't always tell the entire story, but they give one a good starting point based on all the other students, in this case players. I agree with Steve that sample size can give a distorted view, good or bad, but they give a good view of that game.

Players face different tests each week just like students face different tests each week.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
The eye test usually works!

Should that be in purple? For years, the eye test for multiple posters has been hysterically wrong. They blamed our OL. They blamed our scheme. They blame coaches. They blame the fans.

Please!

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Vers, they blame you sometimes too!!! LOL

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LOL.....I know.

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Some people disagree with your thoughts now, Ouch. Maybe you might want to reconsider?

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
I really disagree w/you about Stefanski. I like his scheme. I think he dials up a ton of short passes and pounds the rock w/Brissett. I think his use of the ZBS is very good. Dude was NFL coach of the year just two years ago.

I think our defense improved as the year progressed and it should be even better this upcoming year.


Just a few early quotes I've seen. Hate to say, "I told you so!"

Originally Posted by leadtheway
Its simple, this FO and Coaching staff aren't going to be the ones to get us where we want to go. Same issues since game 1, bad coaching on defense, bad situational playcalling on offense, and lack of talent in the front 7 and receiver. Berry gets too much love IMO, this is just as much his issue as anyones. You can't go into the year with tommy freaking Togai as your starting DT.. Our DT's and LBs are some of the worst if not the worst in the league. This was evidenced today by watching a team realize that if we attack them with the run game it's over. Don't think the other 31 teams don't see the same thing. We are toast. Berry has done nothing to address this, despite guys like Suh and Blake Martinez sitting there and could immediately help. Then on the offensive side you have cooper and then a bunch of guys that might be good enough for ST for most teams, so what is going to happen when they just double him and make other guys beat him. Berry sticks with losers too long and doesn't admit his mistakes. Majority of the talent on this team was brought in by Dorsey. Berry has done his best to break it down to almost unwatchable. Tons of great young coaches in the NFL, we need to stop settling for average, and Stefanski is barely that and Woods can't even see that from the rung he's on. Biggest thing outside of playcalling is these players aren't getting coached to be better, either that or we are drafting low ceiling guys. Not going for the FG in the 1st drive and then having a 1st and goal at the 1 with the best two backs in the NFL and come away with only 3 shows how bad Stefanski really is. He has no feel.

Originally Posted by Homewood Dog
I'm not going to rant and rave as I have done in the past. We could easily be 4-0 and the talk of the league. We're not. Today was another disappointing loss in a long list of them. Not as Bad as the Jets loss but not good. We were down too many good starters for this game and still nearly won. I can't understand why this team fails so badly in the 4th Qtr. game after game when our coaches know what the problem is. I mean they have to know right it happens all the time and they don't fix it? DW"s return is not going to fix this. It has to be done now. 2 losses by 4 points; the difference between being on top of the league undefeated and what we are. It makes me sick and be prepared my fellow Browns fans because now it's going to get harder.

Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
Meh, we are what we are. JB played more like a backup today. KS's play calling is still suspect. Woods is an awful DC. We had several guys out. We just are what we are.

Originally Posted by Rishuz
The Browns are an average football team with an average coaching staff. It is what it is.

Originally Posted by Floquinho
Another unnecessary loss mostly because of bad decision making from our coaches.

Originally Posted by redddog
This game highlights the tenuous grip kS has on this team.

If I were haslam, this is what would be in the works for tomorrow morning:

Woods will be met at the door. Escorted to his office and allowed to pack a box. Then walked to his car and watched until he was off the premises. This a$$hole has squandered an all-star roster and fielded a dis-organized mess after 3 years of “leading.”

I would then meet KS in his office. He would be asked why in the hell he has fallen on the hand grenade for this coach as he took this all-star roster and made them the laughingstock of the league. I would demand an adequate answer. And it better be good.

I would then demand that the play calling be handed to Alex. Non-negotiable. If this is a problem, then we’ll wish you luck in your next endeavors.

The goodwill that KS earned in his “coach of the year” season is officially gone. He is, and should be, on the hot seat. There should NOT be any discussion of injuries and challenges they have faced this year. That is BS and a cop out. We have a roster most teams would kill for.

They have managed to build a championship roster. Berry did that and he should be safe - for now. I hate the Watson trade and if it doesn’t directly lead to a Super Bowl, I’ll question this front office. Even still, Watson is a dirt-bag and it will absolutely taint any success we have for me. I digress. Obviously, there are holes. Every team has them. And We do. But this team has the talent to win and it doesn’t. This is the coaching staff. Woods has had this team for 3 YEARS! And they look LOST! This defense is indefensible.

You want to let this crap go down on your team, haslam? Fine. But we deserve better. And if this Head Coach won’t course correct, then you have to. How many $hit sandwiches are we supposed to be forced to eat? How long before this torchured fan-base finally has enough? How many rebuilds, coaching changes, roster rebuilds and embarrassments do we have to endure?

I wish we as fans could quit this team for a while - truly hit this ownership in the wallet for once. But it won’t happen. They know we are too committed to this team. They know it’s a culture. And that’s why they know they will never be held accountable.

I know this is was week 4, but I am as disheartened as I’ve been in years.

Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Our defense should be embarrassed

Our playcalling was really questionable IMO

They took away our screen game and it destroyed us … props to them

Wasted opportunity for a w, but I knew we were up against it.

That sucks

Originally Posted by Xanthros
14 straight successful running plays to essentially close out the game. Inexcusable and unacceptable. Someone needs to be held accountable and it starts with Stefanski. The are no excuses why this team isn’t 4-0. Brissett has proven he can’t close out. Hence the backup designation. No real blame there.

Originally Posted by SunDawg
Stephanski is a poor play caller ... but he will get yet another pass this year because of the Watson fiasco
Joe Woods defense is too soft
This team is poorly coached and situationally ill-prepared
This team will be too far gone to make the playoffs even if Watson goes 6-0 when he comes back
Haslam is going to have a tough decision at years end regarding this coaching staff. If it were me I would tell Stephanski, give up play calling or there's the door.


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Why does he have to reconsider? He's entitled to his own opinion.

Have you reconsidered your opinion on Baker? He was really bad when he played for the Browns. He's been worse than that, if it's believable, with the Panthers.

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Quote
Hate to say, "I told you so!"

The effort put forth gathering all those quotes indicates otherwise.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Why does he have to reconsider? He's entitled to his own opinion.

Have you reconsidered your opinion on Baker? He was really bad when he played for the Browns. He's been worse than that, if it's believable, with the Panthers.

You guys just can't leave Baker out of any post. News Flash, Baker is no longer a Browns player. That boat has sailed - or has it for you? However, Stefanski is still here and the suspect play calling in 2021 has continued without fail in 2022. I'm not the only one that has noticed and questioning what the hell the Browns are doing. If hanging it all on Baker smooths your feelings, so be it - still doesn't change the fact that Stefanski sucked at play calling in 2021 and he's continued in 2022. Add in the continued regression of the defense and you have a below average HC - and I'm not alone in my opinion.


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Strange egg.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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It's never going to sail for me. It's too much fun to keep bringing it up.

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Maybe Bakers shortcomings as a QB limited the plays
That Stefanski could dial up as a playcaller.
Let's face it, Mayfield really struggles when he has
To improvise when the play breaks down
Mayfield needs a running game behind him to even look
Average. He is so limited as a QB, he really hamstrings
The playbook and the playcaller.
Baker should be renamed Brady Anderson Jr.
He is really struggling big time in Carolina..
He can't see over the linemen without rolling out.
None of the WRs want him as the starting QB.
His TD to INT is bad. He can barely throw for 190 yds
In a single game. He isn't showing leadership.

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j/c

Besides the fact that Baker wasn’t getting it done last season, i still recognized that he helped to make us viable again. But he also always had little quotes and actions off the field that were unbecoming. We’re seeing it again in Carolina (and his play is FAR worse there)


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
Maybe Bakers shortcomings as a QB limited the plays
That Stefanski could dial up as a playcaller.
Let's face it, Mayfield really struggles when he has
To improvise when the play breaks down
Mayfield needs a running game behind him to even look
Average. He is so limited as a QB, he really hamstrings
The playbook and the playcaller.
Baker should be renamed Brady Anderson Jr.
He is really struggling big time in Carolina..
He can't see over the linemen without rolling out.
None of the WRs want him as the starting QB.
His TD to INT is bad. He can barely throw for 190 yds
In a single game. He isn't showing leadership.

Is this a poem?
laugh


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JMHO, Man, who cares about Baker Mayfield? He's not our QB. He wil not be our QB.

I appreciate the way he helped this team turn from an utter joke into a playoff team. However, his time here has passed. I have no idea why so many people would want to continue to talk about him as if he still mattered to this team.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I understand you really liked Baker. I also know that you did not bash other posters for having an alternative opinion. Thus, I understand your point. However, I will counter that Baker is a football topic. A handful of posters ganging up on another poster and hurling multiple daily personal insults has nothing to do w/football? Just curious why you don't ask them to stop spamming these forums w/personal attacks?

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I am asking you all to drop it.

It takes 2 people to keep an argument, especially a stupid one, going. Stupid arguments also die in silence.

There was a time when I read every single thread on the boards. (In PF, GD, and EE, anyway) Not anymore, The arguments have become stupid and petty.

Man, it's like 3rd grade sometimes.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Actually, I have all those guys on ignore. Yet, they won't stop. Just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by YTownBrownsFan
I am asking you all to drop it.

It takes 2 people to keep an argument, especially a stupid one, going. Stupid arguments also die in silence.

There was a time when I read every single thread on the boards. (In PF, GD, and EE, anyway) Not anymore, The arguments have become stupid and petty.

Man, it's like 3rd grade sometimes.
Baker will always be linked to history of Browns failures
At QB. So in a sense he will still be a topic.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Actually, I have all those guys on ignore. Yet, they won't stop. Just sayin'.
Do you ever accept any accountability for anything?

"They won't stop"... so the problem is that other posters have the gall to respond to your Baker posts. Do you realize how that sounds??


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Originally Posted by FATE
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Actually, I have all those guys on ignore. Yet, they won't stop. Just sayin'.
Do you ever accept any accountability for anything?

"They won't stop"... so the problem is that other posters have the gall to respond to your Baker posts. Do you realize how that sounds??

As with almost any post on this forum, there's a group that will immediately attack certain individuals because of their past support of individual players. Interesting enough, the initial post of over 1000 words talking specifically about the coaching woes of the Browns has been immediately turned on its head by the anti-Baker group. Keep in mind that of the 1000 plus words, the word Baker was not mentioned even a single time. It's ok though, I recognize the narcissism traits of many individuals in today's society.

Outside of that, the point of the original post is that there's a growing concern (rightfully so I might add) that Stefanski is not the coach as advertised and that he and his staff is ruining what is on paper one of the most talented teams in the NFL. Stefanski's suspect play calling didn't just start in 2022. In fact, he has a history of suspect play calling. The defense hasn't just struggled in 2022, we had the exact same issues in early 2021. Special teams have not been a problem just starting in 2022. The common denominator in all of this is the HC. Stefanski selects his staff. Stefanski approves the game plan. Stefanski is supposed to be the decision maker. Stefanski is the one responsible to have the staff in place to train yet the players aren't getting coached to be better.

In any case, we are through the easiest part of our schedule with 25% of the games done for a 2-2 record. The next 8-games will be brutal if some changes don't happen pretty quick. Before the players start complaining to the press, maybe it's time for another players meeting since it's obvious the coaches' meetings aren't working.


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edited

Last edited by steve0255; 10/03/22 12:32 PM. Reason: spelling

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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
Maybe Bakers shortcomings as a QB limited the plays
That Stefanski could dial up as a playcaller.

You mean like the limited QB he has now does? Yet people keep blaming Stefanski.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
j/c

Besides the fact that Baker wasn’t getting it done last season, i still recognized that he helped to make us viable again. But he also always had little quotes and actions off the field that were unbecoming. We’re seeing it again in Carolina (and his play is FAR worse there)

I really don't disagree with you at all. It does however surprise me that people try to expound on baker's actions while ignoring watson's as it pertains to the football side. Watson signed a long term contract extension with the Texans only to demand a trade a couple of months later. He then sat out an entire season until the Texans bowed to his demands. The entire time using his no trade clause option to tie their hands in making such a trade.

One is no longer here and the other is signed with the Browns on a 230 million dollar guaranteed contract. Yet people keep posting about the one who is no longer here and his " little quotes and actions off the field that were unbecoming. ", while ignoring the egregious way watson acted and treated the texans. I find that amazing.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Actually, I have all those guys on ignore. Yet, they won't stop. Just sayin'.

That's right. You've shut out those who disagree with you while taking cheap shots at them. There's nothing manly or to be proud about there.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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j/c...


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DPOY .... notallthere


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j/c...

Ready your barf bags....

Jordan Elliott has an overall PFF grade of 29.5 on the season. Ranked 126th out of 127 DTs.

Tommy Togiai has and overall PFF grade of 28.5 on the season. Ranked 127th out of 127 DTs.

Jacob Phillips has an overall PFF grade of 28.8 on the season. Raked 80th out of 81 LBs. The Anthony Walker loss was a huge blow to the defense. He was the 5th highest rated LB.

Jacob Phillips had a grade of 27.3 against the Falcons.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...

Ready your barf bags....

Jordan Elliott has an overall PFF grade of 29.5 on the season. Ranked 126th out of 127 DTs.

Tommy Togiai has and overall PFF grade of 28.5 on the season. Ranked 127th out of 127 DTs.

Jacob Phillips has an overall PFF grade of 28.8 on the season. Raked 80th out of 81 LBs. The Anthony Walker loss was a huge blow to the defense. He was the 5th highest rated LB.

Jacob Phillips had a grade of 27.3 against the Falcons.

Three of the Browns defensive players ranking nearly the worst in the NFL...what are the chances of that happening..?




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Suppose it has anything to do with the coaching these guys are getting...?




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What is the chance a DC can put up a good defense with those players?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Could it be that these guys were always bad and our front office is so damn poor at judging talent..?

Jordan Elliot- First-team All-SEC (2019)

Tommy Togiai- Second-team All-Big Ten (2020)

Jacob Phillips- led LSU in tackles as a junior


Last edited by mac; 10/03/22 03:03 PM.



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I think almost everyone knew we were weak even at the starting positions along the interior of the DL before the season started. As far as depth is concerned it was even worse. I also don't think anyone was fooled by the lack of talent at LB'er depth either. I have no idea what happened. Maybe they wrote the season off before it began with watson being benched for 11 games. I have no idea if that's true or but from the standpoint of a guess it's as good as any.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I don't believe PFF grades have anything to do w/coaching. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

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Considering the highest rated Browns were here before Berry started drafting that pretty much says it all.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
j/c...

Ready your barf bags....

Jordan Elliott has an overall PFF grade of 29.5 on the season. Ranked 126th out of 127 DTs.

Tommy Togiai has and overall PFF grade of 28.5 on the season. Ranked 127th out of 127 DTs.

Jacob Phillips has an overall PFF grade of 28.8 on the season. Raked 80th out of 81 LBs. The Anthony Walker loss was a huge blow to the defense. He was the 5th highest rated LB.

Jacob Phillips had a grade of 27.3 against the Falcons.

This is what Ive been trying to say.. Berry is horrible at drafting and evaluating.. All the best players were Dorsey, and even worse, Berry won't admit a mistake. Guys like phillips and schwartz have no business on this roster. You can't tell me a blake martinez or a Suh woudln't immediately help the middle of our defense. The only thing I will say is it may be as Pit mentioned and they consider this a throwaway season and look to retool this offseason and start with Watson game one. I don't think that type of plan is fair to the fans but it would explain why we didn't address DT/LB and wr this year. Also explains why Woods is still here. Either way, Berry deserves just as much blame, if not more than any coach.


Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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