DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2022 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 28 Chargers 30 Post Game

I am not and have not been a KS fan
I also did not claim that he was the problem.

I posted winning percentages in Pittsburgh to support my assertion that after the 1st couple years of Noll's regime that it was easy for them not to fire their HC

I think SKI is way better than a guy you fire mid-season. We know when things are clicking he can be good. My problem with his play calling is this, our strengths and weaknesses are glaring, stop overthinking this crap and just string together plays that are high probability or that we've proven we can execute well. These past two weeks SKI seems to be trying to force the plays he wants to see instead of what's working. Camp is over, we are what we are, use our strengths.

I like KS and I think he's a pretty good OC for 54 minutes. I have absolutely zero confidence that he's going to generate any offense at all during crunch time though. If I have time, I might go dig up some metrics on our QB/offense in those end of game situations.. they have to be well below average when compared to other QBs around the league..

What is to prove?

I said, IF meaning that I don't know and do not claim to know.
As for the rest of that statement, it is blatantly obvious as well.
A HC coaches the team, offense, defense, and special teams
The coordinators are more limited and the position coaches even more limited than that.
IF there is a problem somewhere the HC need to step in and address it with the coordinator and if necessary the position coaches
IF he shirks those responsibilities then he is not acting as the HC but rather as a coordinator.
I would consider that a problem, IF that was indeed the case.

Again IF meaning I do not know nor do I claim that to be the case.
Not making chit up
Using standard English

I was not a fan of KS. However, I became one because he is a good coach. I am allowed to express my opinion on that, especially when I use facts to support them.

And I am fine with that.

You have a big problem when people twist your words - which you should
I would expect the courtesy of you not twisting my words/meaning.
You even highlighted my IF, then accuse me of making chit up.

jc -

When did toe taps not become sufficient enough to be in bounds and now your heal has to also be in? I saw that twice this weekend.

I apologize if I misinterpreted your meaning. I must have misread it. Sorry.

I understand why we are all upset.
We should be 5-0 today except we aren't bc it seems like we are purposefully going out and looking for ways to lose games.
However we should look at the standings and note that we are 1 game out of 1st with 12 left to play.
This season is in it's infancy and we are right in the thick of things.
We are just disappointed because we should be running away with the division at this point.

Apology accepted

Bump.

If your heal comes down out of bounds then you're out.... if you toe touches then comes up and you go out then you're in... but your heal can't touch out of bounds... always been the rule...

You can still toe tap if facing the sideline. If you back into the sideline your heel cannot touch out of bounds. It has been that way for as long as I can remember

Thank you both. Maybe I'm just having a brain fart.

so Stefanski= Noll.... got it, nevermind Noll had that percentage after about 300 more games and 4 superbowls..but sure...that makes sense

We're just not used to seeing as many of these plays as in the past. Usually the "toe tap" occurred as the player was facing the sideline. We've just had an extreme amount of back shoulder plays and players are getting good at "backwards-toe-tapping", for back of a better term.

When the receiver is falling forward its the tips of the feet or toes that make contact that is considered having control

The rule is the same as going out of bounce heel has to hit first if the heel hits out of bounce then ofc it's not a catch

If he catches that and drags both toes going out of bounce before the heel touches out of bounce its a TD

Simply his heel hit out of bounce as he caught the ball

A new signature?
The voice of reason to the voice of reason.

That wasn't my real point, lead. I think that it's wise to be stable. Firing coaches all the time has not worked. No one can argue that, right.

Stefanski turned this team around. He was responsible for Baker's best year. People blamed him for Baker for falling off last year along w/the injury. Well, Baker sucks more than ever. Ww were 4-49-1 before he got here. We have a winning record w/him. Give him time. Let's see what he can do w/Watson next year. It will be the first time he has an elite qb.

j/c...

Seems bad.

Staley made the right call. I knocked him for it. Stefanski would have done the same. Teams either are all in on analytics or they're not on 4th down calls.

A couple of comments

KS is not good at positioning the team for a fourth quarter win. He has Shottenheimer playoff syndrome and goes too conservative.

Chubb should be the closer. Too many times I have seen Hunt in the role, but Chubb changes the defense.

We lost the game again and some of you says that our HC had a great game. Reflect a few seconds of what “had a great game” actually means.

That our kicker don’t have enough confidence in himself isn’t a coincidence.
When JB throws a totally brainless pass when the game was literally in his hands is also not a coincidence.
And why do our defense look like headless chickens whenever they’re facing a little bit of pressure?

The losing mentality in this organization and among some supporters sits so deep that excuses has becoming a habit. Stefanski is again frustrated. Mary Kay ask meaningless questions and the charades continues. Players shakes their heads. Supporters shake their heads.

On You Tube Quincy had his channel where he mocks critical viewers with saying that they don’t know football. Sounds familiar.

Just finished watching the post game pressers and they could record those and just use the same one week after week. It's the same thing...We need to do better. It's everyone's fault. Well i disagree. The play calling still sucks week after week. We have 2 of the best running backs in the NFL and Chubb is the best and he is on the sidelines in situations when we need him in there. I don't know what it is about Stef that he can't see that Chubb needs to be on the field....PERIOD.

I think York just might be a one hit wonder. There is no excuse for him to be missing field goals that are within range. That's his damn job and he gets paid good money just to kick a ball. Do your job man !!!!!!

Joe Woods sucks as a D coordinator and needs to hit the bricks. Our D played soft in 3rd and long situations and our D line couldn't hold back granny in a walker.

This team has issues along with the coaching staff and things need to change or we will be lucky if we are even a .500 team at seasons end. I fully expect the Bungles and Ratbirds to beat us when we play them.

I am done venting. I am 71 years old and been a browns fan since I was a kid and I just don't see things getting better from year to year. These players make some serious money and I expect more from them than what we are getting. And they wonder why they get booed off the field. They have one of the best fan bases in the NFL and we expect better. It just gets old,the same crap year after year.

Hang in there Harley. I’m not 71 but I’ll be there soon with this team. We all feel how you do.

One thing I do like is it seems the team is doing what I have wanted for a long time. For years I have been moaning about fullbacks and TE's who are kept for blocking. I have been saying that if you want blocking, just play some O-lineman as the FB or blocking TE.

Now to keep things somewhat honest, we need to toss a pass or hand the ball off every once in a while to those guys. Again, just to keep a hint of that possibility alive. I am sure that Froholt could handle a dive play or Dunn could catch some lob pass.

Good point Peen. I like our usage of extra OL especially in high leverage situations. That’s why the 4th and 1 was so puzzling with the pulling guards and weird play to Hunt … so, so dumb

j/c...

This defense should be absolutely embarrassed of themselves.

Love the fire and intensity here from Garrett.

That lack of effort by Garrett is shameful.

Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Look where my hand was
Time isn't holding up
Time is an asterisk
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...
Yeah, the twister comes
Here comes the twister
Same as it ever was...

Jimmy not having much fun.

It is nice to see that interest in wins and loses our owner has. Some owners only care about the profit their teams make.

Who gives a crap about efficiency? You are LOSING games because of crappy play, crappy play calling, crappy everything. That's about all you are efficient at at this point. This roster should NOT be 2-3 with the cupcake schedule. Just ridiculous. But hey, continue to work on things that need to be fixed coach. More of the same nonsense that addresses NOTHING from week to week. Stick to your processes. Don't worry about the results. UNTIL YOU LOSE YOUR JOB. Then maybe, just maybe, you will figure out what the NFL is about: WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES. Start winning coach or you will be gone. We are all tired of these CONTINUED excuses EVERY week. If you have to put your players in a position to win games, THEN DO IT NOW! If you have to give the players a better scheme, DO IT NOW! If you the players have to get better at blocking, tackling, running, throwing, etc., PRACTICE THESE THINGS NOW! The fans are RESULTS oriented. We don't give a crap about your processes or analytics. WIN OR ELSE! DO IT NOW!

Overrated. Soft. No fire whatsoever (unless he gets booed). Not a leader. I have no problem trading him.

We don't need no stinking quitters Myles.

This is how he labels you if you disagree with him. If anyone is surprised by that at this point in time I would be shocked.

I'm a sucker for mathematics... A few questions, points, etc...


We backtest all of these scenarios to come up with these numbers. Over what period of time, I have no idea. Here's what I do know... Sample size for each scenario is incredibly slanted. A mere five years ago, going for it there would be among the strangest of anomalies.

So, we have a very large sample size for punting and a very small one for going for it. Which leads to the next point... It's often something out of the ordinary, which catches a team by surprise, which leads to a higher success rate. Now that it's an ordinary occurrence, should we expect these percentages to hold true?? Probably not, they'll move a bit one way or another.

Bottom line -- the teams playing right now, that are embracing analytics as some god-like algorithm, will live and die by the fact they are the laboratory rats in providing the real percentages for the future (now that the game is changing so dramatically).

In this case -- up 2, 4th and 1, 54 yards from opponents endzone, 4th qtr @ 1:13, TOs: offense 1 / defense 0
I see the data that says 88% win rate. Honestly, my very first thought is "that's because it's only happened eight times"... 7 of 8 equals 87.5%. Of those eight times, most or nearly all are from a time when nobody in the world would expect it. How many first downs because the stunned defense jumped offsides? Three? That will never happen now.

Who knows... My real point is this: we're using analytics and real percentages to predict the future... they do not predict the future because the present is creating it. There are no forward thinking algorithms.

Really fascinating stuff.

j/c

I just wanted to touch on a point here. Sometimes a strong suit isn't what you think it is. Let's take the running game. There is no doubt that the Browns have the best RB tandem in the NFL. That makes it very much a strong suit of the offense. But when the D gives up more rushing yards to your opponents, even a terrible rushing team, it isn't a strong suit of your team. Losing the rushing battle in totality and YPC is inexcusable with having Hunt and Chubb in your backfield.

Secondly, the reason for that is obvious. There is terrible talent on the interior of the DL. Almost every poster on the board said as much before the season and nothing was actually done to correct it. There have been huge investments in the secondary over time in the draft and attention as well as money invested in keeping them. Ward has been especially concerning. So a few questions must be asked. Did Woods tell Berry they were fine on the interior of the DL? Is that why Barry didn't address upgrades there? Or was it that the analytics tell Berry it's not a priority to invest in? Did Berry cause Ward to forget how to play CB?

Now before I go further I think people need to consider something. You can't expect that when your DE's are being sent in to "try" and get pressure on the opposing QB that they can also hold the responsibility for outside contain. They can't be in two places at the same time. You can't be working your way inside while being on the outside. It's called physics. Very basic physics.

I understand why people wish to put the blame all on Berry's shoulders. And believe me I'm not saying he doesn't deserve some of it. I'm just not sure all of the issues on D lay squarely at his feet.

Thirdly. What is up with Myles? The D played like crap one week and he had an issue with the fans booing their performance. Then this week he feels "disrespected" by a team going for it on fourth down that is running the ball down their throats the entire game?

ATTENTION Myles; Respect is earned not given. Spend more time working on earning respect than expecting it while doing a crappy job. You obviously don't have a clue how any of this works.

Before this game, if someone would have told me that We would hold Herbert to 220 or so yards, with 1 TD ... I would take that all day any day. Herbert scares me, I think he is a top QB in the league.

I hate to say this after a loss, but there were a lot of positives. I honestly did not think we could hand with the Chargers, but we did. They tried to hand us the game. The W was there for us.

The positives? Other than the pick, Jacoby had a really nice game. Three picks, all 4th quarter heart-breaking ones. The run game, again, was fantastic. Cooper was involved. DPJ with some nice catches. Njoku with another big game. I checked the stats, 6 catches on 6 targets. Some were tough catches. I like a TE who can catch in traffic. And, like I said, we held Herbert in check, compared to his usual game.

I never coached, and I am not a play-caller. But I wonder at a few of the calls. The 4th down in our territory, why not Brissett on a sneak? I think it is a higher percentage play.

And on the last drive, getting another 5-10 yards should have been the goal. We run to the outside, and then throw for the end zone. I get not being predictable.

Of most concern, to me, is the lack of a run defense. Against ATL the talk was that were out 3 starting DL. They were all back, and still got gashed. Even worse, the Charger's were pitiful running the ball, until yesterday. We are soft up the middle. Clowney seemed disruptive, but the middle is weak.

At the end of the day, it's a loss.