DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andrew Berry ....fools good GM

When Andrew Berry got hired he seemed to be a smart
Well spoken, highly articulate mind for the GM position
He did recognize that Baker Mayfield was not the
Answer at QB and we know the results of showing Mayfield
The door.

But under a microscope if you look at his drafting with
The Browns, it's not good...it's average.

How many players that he drafted has turned out to be
Top tier to elite?
Wilis is good.but he isn't elite.
Delphit is ok..average. but his playmaking skills are far and
Few between.
Togiai is a cupcake.
JOK...all hype. He can't take on blocks. He is out position
Schwartz is a bust. He can't even see the field on gadget plays

Newsome is good. He might be better than Ward this year.
Phillips is very average. He might be fast.but he won't
Fight through a block. His pass coverage skills are in question

And this year..Berry wanting to prove how smart he is,trades down
In the draft and has nothing to show for it other than a PK
Who chokes. Winfrey only makes noise when a microphone
Is in his face.

He has neglected the WR and DT rooms which is backfiring
On this team

Andrew Berry doesn't value DTs or WRs. Stefanski doesn't value defense.

The result? 2-3.

The center of our defense is so soft and it’s killing us. Think about the importance of being strong up the middle in every team sport. We are VERY strong up the middle on offense and not at all on defense. This is the result.

DT/LB/S stink.

Both delpit and Phillips are at the bottom in the nfl. Calling them average is way too many props

What’s worse than the drafting to me is he doesn’t admit mistakes. There’s FA help that would have helped but he stuck with worst in the nfl players instead of spending some cap for this year

Newsome is looking better than I would have thought.

Insert darn near any other GM

Newsome is our best guy in the secondary by far. He’s very good

I have been feeling this way for a while.

I will say that in some cases I am good with "Good".

Sometimes in a draft "elite" simply isn't available which was the case with the Wills pick, so to me that wasn't a bad pick.

In the end, I too am concerned we aren't drafting very good players when you take a close look. I don't see many of these mid round picks who look to offer any hope of developing in to good starters.

I agree on JOK. He is way hyped. He might be better suited to the safety position, though I am not sure of his speed. he might be just a step slow?

Well said Mac. We’ve put an emphasis on analytics and SPARQ scores for athleticism, but we are also devoid of strong tacklers and willful defenders it seems.

j/c:

This thread is funny and stupid all at the same time.

Dorsey was in there in that timeframe. We didn't go from Sashi to Berry.

The OP has ridiculously harped on Berry for a while. Nothing to see here, move on. The anti-intellectual and anti-anylitics crowd is growing in the fanbase. I guess we need the dumb jock types running a billion-dollar franchise.

Yuck

fools good GM???

You mean Fools Gold GM?????

Andrew Berry loves him some developmental draft picks.
Forget about drafting players who can step in today
And be difference makers.

I'm allowed to harp on Berry. The Browns have accomplished not so
Much under his reign.

I think some, including myself feel a sense of balance needs to be achieved. I'm certainly not anti analytics but I don't think SPARQ scores are the be all end all either. I watched Clay Matthews 3 drop like a rock in the draft while yelling "Didn't anybody watch the tape!" And why did he drop? Because his size didn't fit the mold. Sometimes it's because their 40 didn't time out well. There are a myriad of analytical reasons that great players fall in the draft which often times ignores how they actually play the game.

Sure, you do have a few that thinks analytics are junk but I certainly don't. I think the biggest question on the table is how you divide up what percentage of analytics you put into your decision and how much football game tape do you put into your decision. As we've seen with Schwartz, when you base your decisions too heavily in one direction it could come back to bite you.

Based on our draft history with Berry - we have a very clearly defined target player we identify and draft. Analytics and SPARQ is clearly a significant factor. Obviously scouting and football ability is also a part of it. It's a very valid question when looking at the current struggles on defense, with a team comprised by such a large % of Berry drafted players .... have we got it right or is one of the decision making components skewed to high ? I get that we've had other posts that got extended or repeated in the past - I didn't contribute much to those threads. Analyzing Berry at this stage of his draft history and team building - and expressing an opinion on how he's doing seems valid. Much like Stefanski - my *impression* is that he's done an okay job. I like some of the things he's done a lot - but there are certainly some glaring concerns. Over emphasizing SPARQ and keeping too many of your own picks instead of replacing them with better FA's is probably right at the top of the list, along with a glaring under valuing of certain positions.

I also think age is a huge factor. We are still the youngest team in the league and we value that stat

I'm not sure I agree. I think one would have to know who makes the calls as it pertains to who is signed to their contracts and who it is that's selected in the draft. You can only comprise a roster from the players your FO signs and drafts. From everything I know Stefanski sets the starting roster. I mean I don't really buy into the fact that Stefanski makes the calls on who gets drafted and who is signed. Sort of like the old analogy that the chef can only make a dish with the ingredients he's been provided.

It would seem to me that if your HC made the call on who gets drafted and signed the team is paying a lot of people to do nothing. It's the FO and scouting department that makes the calls on draft day, not the HC IMO. If not, why would you have a GM and a scouring department? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you and am taking you to mean Stefanski in some places where you mean Berry?

My best guess, and that's really all that it is, is that Stefanski tells Berry what type of players he needs at what positions. From that point forward it's up to Berry and company to address those issues.

I certainly won't say I'm 100% sold on Stefanski as some seem to be but not nearly as hard on him as others. What some see as head scratching calls I see as not being so bad. All you need to do is watch some teams that have become so predictable you know what they're going to do before the ball is even snapped. We see plays all the time in the NFL where good HC's call plays the other team isn't expecting with great success and they look like geniuses in the process. I don't see running unpredictable plays on occasion to keep your opponents on their toes as such a bad thing.

The biggest issue I see as a possibility is what's going on with the D. Stefanski certainly did "unteach" Ward how to play CB. Nor did he coach Troy Hill and John Johnson 3 to play worse. When listening to the comments from Myles as of late it seems that there is no sense of accountability among the defense and there may be something more serious behind the scene there. Worrying more about the fans booing your bad play and your opponents disrespecting you than what you should be concerned about, playing well, bothers me more than anything else at this point. This may end up being Stefanski's biggest challenge to date. Listening to what someone like Myles has to say in the heat of the moment speaks louder to me than almost anything.

From the bit you quoted - not sure if it is clear enough .... but it should read:

""Much like Stefanski - my *impression* is that he's (BERRY) done an okay job.""

When you look at some of the players he drafts (DT's are a case in point right now) - we have either really whiffed monumentally, or we are (to your point) hindering them with the coaching, or most likely a little of both.

Agree that a heat of the moment comment by player(s) may be very revealing on pulling back what the core issues/frustrations are.

Ah, I see now. Thanks.

I wonder where we’d be if Jimmy would have kept John Dorsey and Freddie. Dorsey didn’t want Freddie fired and wanted to give him another year. - Had we kept those two, I can’t see us much worse than we are now. 2-3 on the brink of another lost season. Everybody was so excited about Stefanski after his first season. -Look at the circumstances around that season though.. Playing in empty Covid stadiums, against teams that didn’t have legitimate off season preparation. A playoff victory in an empty stadium in a game that Stefanski didn’t call plays. - Stefanski’s coach of the year honor is starting to look like a fluke.

As for Andrew Berry, he has not nearly been as good as John Dorsey was… a draft that produced Chubb, Ward, D’Ernest. Plus the acquisitions of Teller, Hunt, and Jarvis. - Think that’s impressive, look at his Chiefs drafts.
Ummm yeah, getting rid of Dorsey and replacing him with Berry is shaping up to be the biggest blunder in the history of the organization. Bigger than trading Paul Warfield, bigger than picking Winslow over Roethlisburger.

Dorsey whiffed on Baker and Freddie. Those are big misses. But he definitely did some great stuff too.

Then again the Jets loss earlier thie season was also an immediately fireable offense.

Who the hell knows anymore. Why should we even care? The Browns don't care. If they did, they'd put a winning product on the field. I'm betting big on the Patriots this weekend. I'm going to get some enjoyment out of this team one way or another.

Dorsey’s best two decisions were acquiring Teller and drafting Chubb. They are the heart beat of our offense.

However, we also didn’t nearly maximize our draft capital

Obviously the defense is really deficient in personnel, motivation, and scheme. I agree that we need a much more stout defense to win meaningful games (can you imagine us trying to stop Allen or Mahomes haha).

I think today’s NFL is all about offense AS LONG as you have an average defense. You don’t have to be some juggernaut but you can’t be a damn sieve like we are either.

It’s All About Perspective: On Joe Woods, Andrew Berry, and the Browns

Dave Kolonich takes a look at where things have gone wrong for Andrew Berry.

By DaveKolonich Oct 12, 2022, 2:00pm EDT
link


We’ve reached a point in the Browns’ season where perspective takes on great significance.

Statistically, the Browns’ offense has been exceptional, ranking 4th in Football Outsiders’ Offensive DVOA (16.5%), 4th in total yards (1982), and 1st in rushing yards (962). A meltdown for the ages against the Jets, red zone futility versus Atlanta, and a missed Cade York FG on Sunday are all that separate the 2-3 Browns from standing 5-0.

For those with more patience, the return of Deshaun Watson to Berea at least reminds Browns’ fans of the organization’s long game. It’s not a stretch to suggest Watson would be an upgrade over Jacoby Brissett, particularly during late game moments in which Brissett has floundered. However, the organization is likely looking towards a future in which Watson plays his prime years in Cleveland.

Of course, the realist would counter that the Browns’ season may spiral out of control by the time Watson makes his on-field return. Also, Watson is facing the herculean task of learning a new offense, new receivers and shaking off two years of inactivity - all at an impossibly accelerated pace with likely unrealistic expectations.

The pessimist argument is an easy one. The Browns have faced the 3rd easiest schedule in the league and have lost games to Joe Flacco and Marcus Mariota. The defensive coverage breakdowns of 2021 have reappeared and the last two weeks have exposed the run defense as one of the league’s worst. The defensive liabilities have clearly affected Kevin Stefanski’s play calling, as his offensive unit simply cannot afford to make mistakes.

This last point is significant, as the Browns’ defensive woes extend further than Joe Woods or a schematic change. The Browns’ defense has been specifically built both for this moment and the immediate future. Boasting the league’s youngest roster, the defense features 6-7 Andrew Berry-drafted contributors, along with 3-4 of his free agent additions. In other words, this is Berry’s personally curated defense.

One of the costs of the Watson deal (and there are many) is losing valuable draft picks. The Browns won’t have a first round draft pick until 2025. These losses transform future 3rd and 4th round picks into premium selections. Berry has to find value with these picks, yet his three-year draft history suggests a mixed bag of results.

Specifically, Berry’s third and fourth rounds have produced the following players:

2020 - Jordan Elliott, Jacob Phillips, and Harrison Bryant
2021 - Anthony Schwartz, James Hudson and Tommy Togiai
2022 - Martin Emerson, Alex Wright, David Bell, and Perrion Winfrey

The Browns’ current defensive struggles - particularly over the past two weeks - have directly featured Elliott, Togiai and Phillips. Elliott and Togiai are the league’s worst graded defensive linemen according to Pro Football Focus, while Phillips is routinely out of position and taken out of plays. Winfrey’s few positive plays have been overshadowed by opposing linemen dominating him.

I’ll spare readers a Schwartz discussion, while admitting Bryant is a capable second tight end and Hudson could prove to be a future NFL starter. Berry’s 2021 draft appears more promising, as Emerson has played well - although he will face more challenges if Denzel Ward misses time. Both Wright and Bell appear to be solid long-term prospects.

We’re realizing the limitations of Berry’s draft philosophy, which focuses on drafting and developing young players. Certainly, one can point to coaching and schematics as a reason for the current defensive breakdowns. However, a future change in coordinators or schemes could ultimately produce similar results.

Currently, Woods is under fire for his unit’s performance. However, the finger pointing can easily shift to Berry, especially if the season unravels over the next month or so.

Dave Kolonich has written for Fox Sports Ohio, The Orange and Brown Report and created Cleveland Reboot.

Freddie was such an idiot lol. I try to keep it in perspective that Stefanski is a much better coach than others we’ve had, so I try not to overreact with stuff.

Freddie was SBs type of guy, a chucklehead that doesn't know he's a chucklehead.

Berry believes winning up the middle, but also believes in finding players in the draft and value players. He traded for Cooper so I don't think he undervalues the position. Finding DT is the next in the list, but after trading for a QB who really want going to play this year, we weren't expected to be a top contender. DT comes next year and we're redirected to win it all.

Dorsey was awful, Sashi was better, and Berry is yet to be determined but I've been disappointed.

I get the connection. I have lived in Chattanooga 45 years. It's not all that much further from Gadsden than it is to you in Birmingham, so I do get it, but no, there isn't anything to wonder about.

j/c...

Good read.

Most of their effort in building the offense??
????

WHERE THE ** WAs I WHEN THEY DID THIs
I'VE ONLY BEEN FOLLOWING CLOsELY FOR THE LAsT 27+ YEARs
AND they ain't never ever ever ever EVER put offense first
without doing about I3 thirteen different things for the defense first.

The Offense always has to wait, and so much it's maddening. and beyond so it is years of drawn out madness waiting on the Browns to put the offense and scoring points first. --Compounded with more years of the same.
In fact the last time one could even argue they put offense first was about the 2nd-4th year after the return.
halfway through I999-- --- halfway through 2002 if I remember right.

(From Wiki disambiguation.

Fool's Gold, or pyrite, is a mineral with a superficial resemblance to gold.)

The, neverending 2nd course meal advertisement returned this week. But there is always a catch.
I found out the catch to the "restaurant with neverending 2nd course meal advertisement" a few years back,

It is that course #2 never arrives. If your dinner party has to wait 45 minutes before the offer to order the 2nd course and an hour and 5 minutes before it arrives then most Americans will get fed up with
some deal of getting neverending extra courses for one agreed price.