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I think BMs rookie season quite a anomaly. He went in
No pressure on his shoulders. Huh? We hadn't won a game in well over a year. He didn't get ONE snap in practice with the 1st team. There were coolers of free beer all over town waiting to open up after a W. No pressure? But he a decent supporting cast. 8 different players caught TD
Passes that year from Baker. Who threw the passes? What was his performance in the red zone? But he also didn't face any great defenses in those 14 games
But when you say winning, that's a broad term. Wait...what...winning is the most narrow term there is in professional sports. In 2021 (guessing you mean 2020) Baker played light out. But Stefanski's offense
There was no film on it. The offense was always ahead
Of opposing defenses
And again that year, Baker had a very productive supporting
Cast. Landry and Beckham played at high levels Hunt played
Out of his mind. OBJ played (7) games before tearing his ACL. His stats: Beckham finished the 2020 season with 23 catches for 319 yards and three receiving touchdowns plus three rushes for 72 yards and a rushing touchdown in seven games played. Baker went on his tear AFTER OBJ was out. He had Landry & Higgins as a WR cast with Capt Fall Down at TE. For the Browns most-meaningful WIN STR, Ski was in his basement at home. Baker was bad in 2021 AFTER the injury...he's looked bad in CAR in 2022...but what he did HERE before the shoulder injury was very good. When Baker stepped in as QB , the Browns were 1 31. The bar Could not have been set any lower. It's not like Baker took The reigns of a franchise that was a playoff team the year Before. Winning 7 games that year was like NE or Pittsburgh Winning 11. If a team goes 9-8...but misses the playoffs, is that "winning"? Baker won 1 playoff game in his Browns career. Hardly a great accomplishment
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This can't be - I read for fact that the player no longer on the team was THE reason the locker room was divided.
I know - we should get OBJ back, that'd fix everything right ! Baker could be the reason the locker room fractured. His departure wouldn't necessarily fix that. Chemistry and trust take a lot longer to build than destroy. The issues they're talking about aren't chemistry and trust, they're talking about some of the guys not taking their job seriously and not putting in the work necessary to be a professional. There's nothing to build except competency. There is the question of why guys aren't taking their job seriously though. If there is a fracture in the locker room, no matter where it started, it can cause people to not want to be there. Our view of what is actually happening is so skewed that it really is just guess work. Yes, but absolutely no. There is zero chance there is a fracture in the locker room that is keeping guys, perhaps all of our DBs based on performance?, from treating their jobs like a job and being professional and is all because of a guy that ISN'T HERE. Yes, dissent among the ranks can cause all sorts of problems, but nobody is dumb enough to be creating issues like this over a guy that is elsewhere. They all know the business side of things and that is where it ends. There is a higher likelihood of me winning the lottery tonight, and I'm not buying any tickets. Super short and simple: Our Problems This Year Have Nothing To Do With Baker Mayfield.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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The bar was low - Baker performed admirably and set then Rookie records. I think you grossly undermine what Baker did - the team under Tyrod for the first 2 full games that year was insipid. Baker stepped in and it was very different. Baker wore out his welcome here - he player badly under Freddie and when he was injured - but your attempt to not acknowledge the difference from 1-31 team and the 0-2 Tyrod team in 2018 is baffling.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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You can bet your azz that when the Browns lose the excuses will fly - oh wait, they already are flying. Anyway, when Watson takes the field, every loss will be someone else's fault. Stefanski better put his big boy pants on because when Watson comes back all responsibility will fall back to where it should have been in the first place - to Stefanski.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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All Pro
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20 wins in 2 years verses 2 with the deshaun era.
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You can bet your azz that when the Browns lose the excuses will fly - oh wait, they already are flying. Anyway, when Watson takes the field, every loss will be someone else's fault. Stefanski better put his big boy pants on because when Watson comes back all responsibility will fall back to where it should have been in the first place - to Stefanski. Baker is a bad QB. He will be out of the NFL next year. No amount of whining and crying is going to change that. You would think with how awful he played this year that would have settled it once and for all but his fan club runs deep. Baker excelled his rookie season because there were low expectations. He usually played well when expectations were low and played poorly when expectations were high.
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This isn't about Baker; this is about the Browns looking like an amateur team on the field. This is about the "no excuse" stance taken in 2021 and the "it's not his fault" stance in 2022. It's pointing out that the same issues pointed out last year are still happening this year without the supposed creator who is long gone. Those are facts that unlike last year cannot be disputed this year because now multiple players are pointing it out. So, who is responsible for this? That's the discussion and has nothing to do with Baker except maybe he was right.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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It doesn't really matter if Baker is out of the NFL next year or not - he's not a Brown. He's played worse than ever at the Panthers. However - it also doesn't matter why or when he played well as a Brown - he jointed a franchise stuck in a losing rut of 1-31 games. We looked bad wit Tyrod - Baker stepped in a lit it up. He also helped take us to the playoffs. I'll always feel good about those things and about what he brought to the Browns. As everyone has said - Baker fanboy or not - Watson is a huge improvement based on how he played 2 years ago. His talent is better than Baker's - and he is on the team. So that's really what matters - let's hope he's as good as he ever was - and I'll leave the off the field issues and sitting out at Houston to the side, character and maturity are different conversations as far as I am concerned.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Baker is what he is. He has shown consistent inconsistency. The idea about him being a winner no matter where he was ran smack dab into the Peter Principle.
Brissett was/is/always will be a back-up. That is what he is here for.
Of more concern is the continued dumpster fire. If this doesn’t get straightened out then I can see bad things on the horizon including Watson getting paid for not being here down the road.
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Just a reminder what the thread is really about. Look back to the original post. That was steve who made those comments. Calling me a liar for an opinion about how the two QBs would perform THIS SEASON. I started posting the JB/Baker comparisons after the very first game because of the trash that steve and the other Baker fans were spewing all off-season.
To recap, Jacoby is 10th overall in both QBR and in the PFF rankings. Baker Mayfield is dead last in both categories. During the first four games, Jacoby had fewer sacks, a better completion percentage, the same number of TDs, and fewer interceptions. Insults and trying to change the topic does not change the facts and what this thread was about.
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You still don't get it. Everybody but you have moved on from Mayfield. The Mayfield posts are in response to your constant rants and hatred for a person who's not even here anymore. The vast majority of us are focused on the fact our Browns are stinking up the joint and are sitting 2-4 after having the 3rd easiest schedule in the NFL. Who gives a crap how Mayfield is doing on a much inferior team except you. His performance cannot be compared to Brissett's because the metrics are so different, but you keep telling yourself you're right. At least you have one person in your corner.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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You are literally intolerable. Your ego knows no end. You are pit, but in football. Your hatred, and bias, and calling other's out for exactly the same thing you do yourself is just pathetic. You have fun. Don't forget to remind us of how wealthy you are, don't forget to tell us ...............eh, you're not worth it.
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3 wins no losses against Burrows.
50 against Pittsburgh
Stefanski 1st to last
Procession rests.
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Legend
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Legend
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3 wins no losses against Burrows.
50 against Pittsburgh
Stefanski 1st to last
Procession rests. Baker is a bad QB. He will be out of the NFL next year. No amount of whining and crying is going to change that. You would think with how awful he played this year that would have settled it once and for all but his fan club runs deep. Baker excelled his rookie season because there were low expectations. He usually played well when expectations were low and played poorly when expectations were high.
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I don't know if he will be out of the league, but I doubt he will earn a starting job again. All the BS rhetoric on here from his fan base won't change the fact that he stinks.
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Baker is a bad QB. He will be out of the NFL next year. And to think we could have had Josh Allen..... [
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Baker wore out his welcome here - he player badly under Freddie and when he was injured - Or, or, ... or... The organization, turned its back on its own again... sad but ?(true?) just maybe. I was contemplating the after Watson era, pretty sure it'll come sooner than many would think.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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I think BMs rookie season quite a anomaly. He went in
No pressure on his shoulders. Huh? We hadn't won a game in well over a year. He didn't get ONE snap in practice with the 1st team. There were coolers of free beer all over town waiting to open up after a W. No pressure? But he a decent supporting cast. 8 different players caught TD
Passes that year from Baker. Who threw the passes? What was his performance in the red zone? But he also didn't face any great defenses in those 14 games
But when you say winning, that's a broad term. Wait...what...winning is the most narrow term there is in professional sports. In 2021 (guessing you mean 2020) Baker played light out. But Stefanski's offense
There was no film on it. The offense was always ahead
Of opposing defenses
And again that year, Baker had a very productive supporting
Cast. Landry and Beckham played at high levels Hunt played
Out of his mind. OBJ played (7) games before tearing his ACL. His stats: Beckham finished the 2020 season with 23 catches for 319 yards and three receiving touchdowns plus three rushes for 72 yards and a rushing touchdown in seven games played. Baker went on his tear AFTER OBJ was out. He had Landry & Higgins as a WR cast with Capt Fall Down at TE. For the Browns most-meaningful WIN STR, Ski was in his basement at home. Baker was bad in 2021 AFTER the injury...he's looked bad in CAR in 2022...but what he did HERE before the shoulder injury was very good. When Baker stepped in as QB , the Browns were 1 31. The bar Could not have been set any lower. It's not like Baker took The reigns of a franchise that was a playoff team the year Before. Winning 7 games that year was like NE or Pittsburgh Winning 11. If a team goes 9-8...but misses the playoffs, is that "winning"? Baker won 1 playoff game in his Browns career. Hardly a great accomplishment Name me a team that drafted #1 overall and that player (QB) took over the reins of a franchise that was a playoff team the year before. There are 3 reasons top QB draft picks fail. 1) They are coming to a loser that has a poor line and hasn't addressed it. 2) According to Sean Payton, "Teams take QB's out of their skill set by making them change to an offensive scheme not geared to their skills. 3. QB not given the time to grow to the NFL level. It used to be a draft pick QB sat for a year or two to enhance their skill set and adjust to the speed. Today, you have to learn on the run which is seriously hampered if the line is bad or the QB has to change skill sets. Anyway, #1 pick QB's always go to the worst teams the prior year and the bar is set extremely high because winning is the exact reason why they were drafted in the first place. That supporting cast you mentioned was 1-31 the two prior years so I wouldn't give them anywhere near a very productive supporting cast coming into the Browns. Oh geez, maybe it was the QB that raised their level of play then.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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I think BMs rookie season quite a anomaly. He went in
No pressure on his shoulders. Huh? We hadn't won a game in well over a year. He didn't get ONE snap in practice with the 1st team. There were coolers of free beer all over town waiting to open up after a W. No pressure? But he a decent supporting cast. 8 different players caught TD
Passes that year from Baker. Who threw the passes? What was his performance in the red zone? But he also didn't face any great defenses in those 14 games
But when you say winning, that's a broad term. Wait...what...winning is the most narrow term there is in professional sports. In 2021 (guessing you mean 2020) Baker played light out. But Stefanski's offense
There was no film on it. The offense was always ahead
Of opposing defenses
And again that year, Baker had a very productive supporting
Cast. Landry and Beckham played at high levels Hunt played
Out of his mind. OBJ played (7) games before tearing his ACL. His stats: Beckham finished the 2020 season with 23 catches for 319 yards and three receiving touchdowns plus three rushes for 72 yards and a rushing touchdown in seven games played. Baker went on his tear AFTER OBJ was out. He had Landry & Higgins as a WR cast with Capt Fall Down at TE. For the Browns most-meaningful WIN STR, Ski was in his basement at home. Baker was bad in 2021 AFTER the injury...he's looked bad in CAR in 2022...but what he did HERE before the shoulder injury was very good. When Baker stepped in as QB , the Browns were 1 31. The bar Could not have been set any lower. It's not like Baker took The reigns of a franchise that was a playoff team the year Before. Winning 7 games that year was like NE or Pittsburgh Winning 11. If a team goes 9-8...but misses the playoffs, is that "winning"? Baker won 1 playoff game in his Browns career. Hardly a great accomplishment Name me a team that drafted #1 overall and that player (QB) took over the reins of a franchise that was a playoff team the year before. There are 3 reasons top QB draft picks fail. 1) They are coming to a loser that has a poor line and hasn't addressed it. 2) According to Sean Payton, "Teams take QB's out of their skill set by making them change to an offensive scheme not geared to their skills. 3. QB not given the time to grow to the NFL level. It used to be a draft pick QB sat for a year or two to enhance their skill set and adjust to the speed. Today, you have to learn on the run which is seriously hampered if the line is bad or the QB has to change skill sets. Anyway, #1 pick QB's always go to the worst teams the prior year and the bar is set extremely high because winning is the exact reason why they were drafted in the first place. That supporting cast you mentioned was 1-31 the two prior years so I wouldn't give them anywhere near a very productive supporting cast coming into the Browns. Oh geez, maybe it was the QB that raised their level of play then. Hhow about that QB choosen #1 overall fails because he Has a poor work ethic or , was surrounded by immense talent In college which made him look better than what he was. Baker was very overrated coming out of OU. Had wide open passing windows to throw into And had a great cast of talent around him. Let's face, his work ethic was not the best when he reached the pros
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I'll totally agree with that but considering the Browns drafted Manziel, I don't believe they focus on work method very much in Cleveland. Hey, isn't that exactly what Bitonio and Cooper were just bitching about? Seems like it's an accepted practice in Cleveland.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Better with Brissett. Now people will need a different scapegoat.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Both back-ups. Who cares?
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Brissett had a pretty good game yesterday. It was far better than his performance against New England. He was 22 of 27. That is a 81.5 completion percentage rate. He threw for 258 yards. No TDs and no picks. He did have one fumble, but not sure he can take too much heat for that one. He was sacked 5 times, which is too much. I think he held the ball too long on some of those, but the OL was giving up quick pressure at times in both the run and pass game. JB also eluded a few other sacks and turned disasters into positive plays or at least avoided drive-killing negative plays.
Signing Jacoby has turned out to be a wise move by Berry. He will be a valuable back-up to Watson and is actually performing well above expectations as a starter. I never thought he would play this well. I don't think anyone else other than Quincy Carrier thought that, either.
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And your response is exactly why people say stats are for losers.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Meanwhile... Panthers' P.J. Walker to start vs. Falcons over Baker Mayfield, Sam DarnoldBy Zac Wassink | Last updated 10/24/22 Carolina Panthers interim coach Steve Wilks feels no need to sit third-choice quarterback P.J. Walker for this coming Sunday's game at the 3-4 Atlanta Falcons after Walker guided the Panthers to a win over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that improved Carolina to 2-5 on the season. ESPN's David Newton notes that Wilks told reporters Monday that Walker will get the nod for the Week 8 game in Atlanta even if both QB1 Baker Mayfield and 2021 Week 1 starter Sam Darnold are cleared to play coming off ankle injuries. "As of right now, I see no reason not to [start him]," Wilks said of Walker. "The energy was there.'' Walker completed 16-of-22 passes for 177 yards with two touchdowns and no interceptions in the 21-3 victory over Tampa Bay. As for Wilks, he replaced fired head coach Matt Rhule on Oct. 10 and later refused to commit to starting Mayfield when the 27-year-old recovered from an ankle injury that reportedly includes a ligament tear he suffered in Week 5 on Oct. 9. Carolina traded with the Cleveland Browns for Mayfield in July, but ESPN stats show he's currently 34th among eligible quarterbacks with a 71.9 passer rating and dead last with a 15.3 total QBR on the season. Wilks has no long-term ties to Mayfield and, thus, understandably isn't in any hurry to put the first pick of the 2018 NFL Draft back in the lineup. Darnold hasn't played since he went down with a high-ankle sprain during the preseason in August. It's unclear if either Mayfield or Darnold will dress versus the Falcons. https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/arti...r_mayfield_sam_darnold/s1_13132_38034271
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When the Panthers signed Mayfield , it was full tank mode.
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Seems like we went into tank mode when we traded him. The Panthers have as many wins as us with a much less talented team.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 10/24/22 11:10 PM.
Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Some people would rather not discuss that part. Can't say I blame them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Seems like we went into tank mode when we traded him. The Panthers have as many wins as us with a much less talented team. The Browns haven't gone into tank mode, and trading the worst QB in the league wouldn't indicate that. What the Browns have are leadership and competency voids at all levels of the organization. The fact that the solution to having an awful head coach and an awful staff is to trade Kareem Hunt is about all the evidence you need to see how incompetent and dysfunctional this organization is. It's comedic at this point.
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The fact that the solution to having an awful head coach and an awful staff is to trade Kareem Hunt is about all the evidence you need to see how incompetent and dysfunctional this organization is. Please explain how making a prudent move with a player that is worth much more to another team (and is of limited worth to our own) is evidence of incompetence? Please explain how this organization thinks this is a solution for all that is wrong? If we kept him, used him at the same rate we have been, finished marching through a lost season, and then got a measly 3rd round comp (really a high 4th) in return; you'd be using the same superlatives to point out how inept they are next year.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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Agreed and KH contract is up after the season. He probably won't sign with us again.
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Seems like we went into tank mode when we traded him. The Panthers have as many wins as us with a much less talented team. Though some on this forum have been posting like maniacs claiming the vast improvement at QB with JB over Mayfield, when you actually compare their comparable Browns raw number work, it's a much different story. Mayfield is gone but please quit fooling yourself that Brissett is performing better than when Mayfield was here - he is not (at least through 7-weeks). QB___________Comp_Att__yards___PCT___TD___INT___QB Rate___Sacks__W___L___T__W/L PCT Brissett_______146__233__1584___62.7%__6____5______90.85____14____2___5___0___0.286 Mayfield 2021__116__173__1474___67.1%__6____3_____104.73____18____4___3___0___0.571 (played 4 of 6 games injured, missed week 7) Mayfield 2020__125__198__1392___63.1%_15____7_____108.64____11____5___2___0___0.714
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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The fact that the solution to having an awful head coach and an awful staff is to trade Kareem Hunt is about all the evidence you need to see how incompetent and dysfunctional this organization is. Please explain how making a prudent move with a player that is worth much more to another team (and is of limited worth to our own) is evidence of incompetence? Please explain how this organization thinks this is a solution for all that is wrong? If we kept him, used him at the same rate we have been, finished marching through a lost season, and then got a measly 3rd round comp (really a high 4th) in return; you'd be using the same superlatives to point out how inept they are next year. I like D'Ernest Johnson every bit as much as KH....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,626 Likes: 590 |
Seems like we went into tank mode when we traded him. The Panthers have as many wins as us with a much less talented team. Though some on this forum have been posting like maniacs claiming the vast improvement at QB with JB over Mayfield, when you actually compare their comparable Browns raw number work, it's a much different story. Mayfield is gone but please quit fooling yourself that Brissett is performing better than when Mayfield was here - he is not (at least through 7-weeks). QB___________Comp_Att__yards___PCT___TD___INT___QB Rate___Sacks__W___L___T__W/L PCT Brissett_______146__233__1584___62.7%__6____5______90.85____14____2___5___0___0.286 Mayfield 2021__116__173__1474___67.1%__6____3_____104.73____18____4___3___0___0.571 (played 4 of 6 games injured, missed week 7) Mayfield 2020__125__198__1392___63.1%_15____7_____108.64____11____5___2___0___0.714 OMG !!!! An actual meaningful football comparison !! How refreshing.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979 Likes: 83 |
I like D'Ernest Johnson every bit as much as KH.... We can all like him az much az we want. But it won't make a cr--s bit of difference about the FACT that he isn't as good of a player at playing football and it Ain't Even Close. and Letz not pretend that it doesn't matter. Becauze when the going getz tough, a team needz real playerz. They don't have much. And media uplifted hopefulz, like rookie from UC, He ain't Kareem Hunt either. The organization iz a (...) and deserves exactly what they'll get. If they don't want to take winning seriously or even their brand seriously anymore, then I don't see any reason to buy their bC anymore. Jacoby Brisset ??? are you KIDDING ME, I can't ## believe it.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941 Likes: 69
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,941 Likes: 69 |
I like D'Ernest Johnson every bit as much as KH.... We can all like him az much az we want. But it won't make a cr--s bit of difference about the FACT that he isn't as good of a player at playing football and it Ain't Even Close. and Letz not pretend that it doesn't matter. Becauze when the going getz tough, a team needz real playerz. They don't have much. And media uplifted hopefulz, like rookie from UC, He ain't Kareem Hunt either. The organization iz a (...) and deserves exactly what they'll get. If they don't want to take winning seriously or even their brand seriously anymore, then I don't see any reason to buy their bC anymore. Jacoby Brisset ??? are you KIDDING ME, I can't ## believe it. Reading your post is like watching a pixelated TV screen. DJ can pound the ball better than KH thus able to spell NC throughout the game. That is not KH's game....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
This is the only qb thread I see, so here is this news on about how Matt Ryan has handled things. I doubt he will be having a podcast to throw shade on others.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,777 Likes: 1343
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 67,777 Likes: 1343 |
So you place some relevance on Ryan not having a podcast? I bet that after a terrible defensive performance by his team he isn't saying the biggest disappointment of the game is that the fans booed them either. But of course with you it's never actually been about the message. It's more focused on the messenger.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Better w/Brissett or Baker
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