I know I will get asked why am I still talking about this subject. I will post a short exchange I had w/another poster that was typical of multiple conversations this off-season.


I said this as part of a post where I was talking about my expectations for Jacoby and the Browns.


There was some back and forth where I was called a liar. I responded that opinions are not lies. That led to this:


At that point in time, I decided to keep track of both qbs for as long as both were playing this year. I was going to post the results no matter who was doing better and I will continue to do so, even Baker somehow starts having a better year than Jacoby. I'll stop if/when either gets benched.

With that out of the way, here are some stats for comparison sake:


QBR: JB is 6th overall at 65.8. BM is 32nd out of 32 at 16.5.

Rating: JB is 19th at 85.4. BM is 32nd at 71.9

TDs: JB w/5. BM w/4.

Interceptions: JB w/3. BM w/4, including a pick 6 yesterday.

Sacks: JB at 5. BM at 15.

Completion %: JB at 64.0. BM at 54.9


I don't think my preseason opinions were out of line and they certainly were not lies, especially I clearly stated that it was an opinion and later explained time to throw, crumbling in the pocket, and abandoning clean pockets. I chose not to name the poster, but understand there were many similar conversations before the year began.

Yes, Vers. JB has played better than Baker did LAST YEAR. Most of us have openly admitted it now. Can we drop it?

However, in the playoff year and his first year, JB isn't even close and I don't give a damn what the stats say. JB literally had zero evidence on film of having the ability he has displayed. You can't argue that, and shouldn't dwell on it just because we were skeptical. You had to be skeptical unless you drank the kool-aide.

No, no he can't. He went from inserting into every thread to starting a thread dedicated to the topic. Haven't you figured this out yet?

Oh, I see it. I just can't believe it. lol. jk Vers, you have every right to get it all out of your system.

Given the system we run here,, we'd be better with Baker. but that was a nice try to get another dig at Baker...

we will never truly know the answer to this question. However, yes. we are better because we saved future cap money and we got a 5th possibly a 4th when most GM's wouldn't have gotten anything for him.

We need to rename this section of the Board "Therapy - talk about what haunts your dreams (and every waking hour)".

On the one hand unbelievable. . . on the other hand, like so many of his posts, an agenda with an axe to grind wrapped up in "football talk" and really everyone can post what they want, right?

JB is better than injured Baker was last year. But that sample size is small and is going down hill.

Baker this year is worse than he was last year and at any time he was as a Brown. He's on a crappy team with a HC who most fans wanted fired before the season started.... and that's not an excuse, because all by himself BM has been godawful this year.

As pointed out above, JB is not better than Rookie BM. He's not better than the guy who completed 21 straight passes vs Cincinnati and PFF graded as 5th (or 4th best) QB in the entire NFL for the final 1/2 of the 2021 season.

But none of that matters. Baker is not on the team. None of it matters because JB isn't our future. Watson by any metric or eye test you use WAS and SHOULD BE a better QB than Baker was even when Baker was at his best. That's what counts and matters to me .... too bad he was found guilty by the NFL of being a serial sexual offender who took no accountability and showed no remorse. As brilliant as he may be, it still doesn't sit well.

Here comes the excuses 😆

No, I'm not going to drop it. I'm pretty sure the posts from the guys I have on ignore were not about the topic and instead taking cheap shots at me. Talking about quarterbacks is football talk. Harassing other posters for having a different opinion is not football talk. And the more they attack, the more I will dig my heels in.

Also, my stats are comparing Baker and Jacoby's stats from this year. I thought Baker was going to be unleashed because he was away from the terrible Stefanski and the horrible supporting cast?

Will Baker be a starting qb next year?

You have to love Vers and his comparisons of Brissett to a 2021 injured Mayfield. A Brissett that is now playing behind a healthy line when injured Mayfield was missing both starting tackles and the #1 backup. Not to mention not having Chubb and Hunt for extended periods of time. I'll bet right now that if Chubb goes down along with both starting tackles Vers will use that injury excuse for poor offensive play every week. Heck, he already did it for last week's loss claiming the loss of our DE's cost the Browns. Now he wants to compare Brissett playing behind what is claimed the best offensive line in the NFL compared to Mayfield playing behind the worst. Even with Mayfield gone, the guy is still giving Vers nightmares as much as he has to talk about him.

Meanwhile, our Browns blew another freaking game with the worst interior line and LB's in football but let's change the discussion to focus on the QB of Carolina. You gotta love how Vers will spin the conversation away from real Cleveland Browns football.

Heard an interesting fact yesterday about blocked or tipped passes coming from another QB. Mayfield currently leads the league in blocked or tipped passes. Do you know who is second? Actually, going into yesterday, it was 6'5" Josh Allen with 6'3" Matthew Stafford being third. The point being made was that size is not the most common variable since most of the time tipped passes are caused by the offensive lineman not staying engaged with the pass rusher. When not engaged, it allows the rusher to elevate and raise their arms. Even if the lineman has secured the pocket by beating the rusher, if they disengage, they allow them a second defensive rush variable, the blocked or tipped pass. Just an FYI.

I now see we should have kept Baker. We could have used him as a MLB. At least he would make some Tackles!!!!!!

You go ahead and do you, Vers. I'm just watching for the laughs. You have a small following that agrees with you. Everyone else has moved on. And those 'attacking' you do it because you egg it on.

It would have also kept Vers away.

j/c,

I think that Jacoby has been successful at managing the game and letting our playmakers make plays ... the problem is really no surprise though, because we have basically asked him to win the games for us at the end of the game ... and that is something that we already knew wasn't going to be a strong intangible of Jacob's game.

He and the offense needs better play (even mediocre) from our defense and ST units.

Yeah, the defense was supposed to carry the team and folks were wondering if we could even score 17 pts a game. The offense has put up a lot of points and are playing well. The defense has been horrible.

I have a theory about the "why" of that. Hopefully, I can work it into a thread on the D when folks are not so emotionally charged.

We’re better with Jacoby. He’s a better QB for Stefanski’s offensive philosophy.

Problem is, our defense is SO BAD that our offense is asked to win games in the end and it puts him in a position above his head.

That might be awhile.

LOL

I wasn't the leat bit concerned that trading Baker would come back to haunt us by showing well on another team.

I just heard that Baker is likely to miss the next two weeks w/an ankle injury. If true, I won't be able to update the year-to-date stats and I know my fan club will really miss that.

It's a high ankle sprang ... so a couple of weeks is very much optimistic. There was talk of him possibly going on the IR on their fan sights.

Baker is going on the IR. Panthers are going into tank mode.

Your hate is palpable. Both for Baker and your fellow Browns fans. Let it go.

How comical is this.

Vers - not man enough to look at other opinions other than his own and currently the King of Cancel culture without a week going by when he doesn't threaten to put another poster on ignore ... has people on ignore and yet takes shots at those posters he has on ignore constantly without being able to keep their names out of his mouth.

Then in a thread he started 100% intended to provoke - he takes shots at others posters posts he can't see while chirping about "football talk". It's really laughable and very kindergarten-esque.

Seems to me Baker can't hold up to the pounding week after week. He's hurt a lot.

It's literally the most infantile example of internet trolling I've ever witnessed... and that's saying a lot.

The opening poster cannot get Baker out of his brain. Baker lives there rent free....Although a very small complex.

Here is a recent pic of the opening poster as he/she sees the obvious...Both Baker and JB are interchangeable...

This guy might be on the block. I'd like to see him in Cleveland. He's a very good WR who was hampered by Baker and Rhule. There was even a report out there a couple of weeks ago that said the Carolina receivers were not running the correct routes. Sound familiar? What's the common denominator?

Vers is clearly on the sauce again. There was no report about WR in CLT running the wrong routes. Maybe someone like Vers reported that it was being reported. Like Vers keeps saying at the moment ... got a link for that?

And I was actually listening when Steve Smith was talking. I mentioned on the Rhule thread I heard the commentators talking about hearing the same issues without seeing changes for the last 18 months ... Steve Smith was the segment immediately before that and I heard what he said. He said he was glad Baker wasn't going to play through injury. He spelled out carefully the difference saying he wasn't glad BM is injured, he's glad he's not playing while limited. In response to reports there was a fire sale a WR on the Panthers asked him for advise. But you know - facts and Vers posts have little in common when it comes to Baker Hate.

I would love to have DJ Moore

Put Dobbs in !!!!!

Yeah, he's a really good receiver. Underrated, but very good.

Unfortunately, other teams will be going after him. In addition to this tweet, the Giants have reportedly contacted Carolina already.

The fabulous Baker boy hate club.

Vers, Quincy and Colin Cowherd with their endless hate will singlehanded make good old Bake and shake popular again despite his worst season ever. That’s quite an impressive achievement.

lol yea, I was thinking about this demand from beginning of the year. While I was reading the posts in the post game thread

j/c,

This just in ... Jacoby Brissett and Baker Mayfield are not interganable in any universe.

This has been a public service announcement:

As I don't talk much about Baker, Just football talk about any QB on A Sunday.

I mentioned he had batted balls a lot and he looked like he had an injury yesterday

Eve said he was in a boot ! Hope it's not serious.

Seeing that Matt Rhule got fired today, made me think about something Hue Jackson said.

Sorry to bring up that name friends ! This is not a dislike post of anyone. Just old thoughts.

Again not bashing, just figuring.

Here's a tid bit of Hue talking about Baker.

Hue Jackson believes the Cleveland Browns fired him as head coach due to the on-field struggles of Baker Mayfield.

Appearing on ESPN's First Take, Jackson discussed why he was let go from the team after they started 2-5-1 this season:

"I think when you stop and look at it, it's truly, really about Baker Mayfield. I think they want to do everything they can to put him in the situation ... I mean, you got the first pick in the draft—who I think is going to be a franchise quarterback; who's going to be a sensational player—and he's not playing as well. So again, here is the perfect storm to move forward and move on."
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...firing-truly-really-about-baker-mayfield



Under Freddie Kitchens

“We set the bar high for ourselves,’’ said Mayfield, who’s now made it clear in two straight interviews that the Browns didn’t have their offensive act together enough for OTAs. “Our expectations were extremely high, and we didn’t meet that so that’s the most disappointing thing. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...t-its-many-more-things-than-freddie.html


Under Matt Rhule


The Carolina Panthers fired Matt Rhule just five games into his third season as the organization’s head coach. After another dismal start to the year, owner David Tepper had decided he’d seen enough, pulling the plug on the Rhule experiment. While it’s a decision that made sense, it’s also a very troubling sign for Baker Mayfield. Rhule’s firing is just the latest in the coaching carousel experienced by Mayfield throughout his first five seasons as a pro. In fact, as pointed out by Jake Trotter, Mayfield is in line to play for his sixth head coach in five years following the Panthers’ decision to fire Rhule.https://clutchpoints.com/panthers-news-unfortunate-baker-mayfield-trend-continues-amid-firing-of-matt-rhule/


Been reading lots of old and new articles involving baker and his past 5 coaches, Didn't even bother looking at Greg Williams.

There have been lots of bad QB's. I can't ever remember one who has played badly and yet the coach gets fired.

Baker has dealt with five fired coaches.

Has any other QB in the league dealt with this ?

This is not a support or bash Baker post, Baker had awful coaches in Cleveland and Rhule was on a very hot seat and the fire under it was growing.

Yet I feel if a QB is brought in to help a team win due to a bad situation already existing in an Organization, Isn't that QB expected to help the situation without the HC getting fired ?

Josh Rosen has been on five teams because he is a bad QB. Has any of the HC's he played for been fired due to his play ?

Honest question guys.

Please don't make this post about me trying to take a side on a QB, just after seeing Rhule fired, It just made me think a bit. nothing more

And Honestly I'm trying to just talk not intending on making fights among you guys.

looking for answers plain and simple

I meant to put this in the Matt Rhule got fired thread

Refs could you move this for me please


unless your okay with it here, although I'm not comparing the two QB's


Thank you

I don't know enough about Rhule to offer an opinion on him.

Hue and Haley had success w/other QBs before they coached Baker. That seems to be forgotten. In fact, Hue was looked upon as a QB guru.

Freddie did not have experience, but it was Baker who lobbied Dorsey to hire Freddie.

I thought Stefanski worked miracles w/Baker. He hid his weaknesses and worked towards his strengths. He never asked too much from Baker. It's weird that Baker's fan base blame Stefanski for Baker's issues. LOL.....the dude was the best thing Baker ever had. And now, Stefanski has Jacoby playing very well. Better than he ever played before.

There were always a multitude of excuses for Baker. Yet, the Browns didn't give him a new contract after his "good" year. They decided to upgrade. Was it really the fault of everyone else and were the Browns stupid? If so, why didn't even one other team go after Baker hard when he was made available? We had to pay Carolina to get him out of the building.

At some point, rational folks might look at the one person who is most responsible for Baker's issues. And that issue is one his manic fan base refuse to do. Instead, they insult anyone who doesn't agree w/them.

Do you know of any other QB who had five HC's ?

And as you and I talk about this subject

Please respect my feelings and not throw in stuff like your last sentence, I read and know about all of you who like to argue with each other

It's annoying, but I respect your beef with each other

I only posted because of the situation for Baker.

This week's PFF grades are out.

Jacoby is 7th overall w/an overall grade of 78.

Baker is 36th out of 36 graded QBs w/an overall grade of 51.

I think the stats that I posted earlier combined w/the PFF grades are important because the FO and HC took a lot of heat this off-season for how they handled the QB position. They have a top-tier qb in the wings in Watson. He is a difference maker who can elevate others and make great plays even when disaster strikes. I am NOT saying he won't make mistakes or fail at times, but he is in that rarified air that includes guys like Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Herbert, and Brady.

While we are waiting for Watson we have a qb who isn't a game changer and does not elevate others, but he is playing solid football and the drama in the locker room is gone. He's had some costly interceptions, but he has played well enough for us to be 5 and 0. I think most people can see it's the defense that has been the problem. Thus, I am here to say that decision makers for the Browns did a really great job of improving our QB room.

Football talk? BS. You keep doing you. The longer you continue to do it the more people see who you really are.

I do not believe there is much separation between Baker & JB.
I believe Baker is the only Browns QB to win a playoff game since Belichek was coach of the franchise. That matters to me.
Was Baker perfect? Hell no! was he good? when not injured, I would say yes. I think we can all agree Baker was injured last season.

The major issue is that AB traded 3 first rounders and guaranteed a huge contract for his replacement who is not eligible to play for 5 more weeks. AND HAS NOT PLAYED A MEANINGFUL SNAP IN ALMOST 2 YEARS.
It is not about Baker or Brissett. But, DW and the price that was paid to bring him here. PERIOD.

Everything else is smoke and mirrors. VERS can hate, others can stick up for, but it is insignificant.

Maybe just maybe the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Baker was a serviceable QB for the Browns. Brissett has shown he is a serviceable QB for the Browns.

What this fan base needs/ craves for is a superstar at the QB position. Maybe Watson is it, but it sure is frustrating having no clue at this point in the season after giving up all that draft equity and $ for other players.

Hindsight is 20/20 and in three years we will have a better understanding of what we actually got.
If DW can not get us to a Super Bowl, The trade was a falure.

KS was as bad as Baker last season in my opinion. KS left a lot of points on the board throughout the year that cost us games. He is still doing the same thing a year later. That is worse than the QB play of botH Baker and Brissett.

This was written for another thread that got locked while I was typing a response to Memphis.

I don't like the Watson hire. I think the impact on that trade on this years team was worthy of "football talk". I didn't like the title of that thread - I didn't agree with some of the vitriol expressed - but at the end of the day a lot of the discussion was team related. Like many threads that hang around for a long time, it went off the rails with some posters spamming arguments back and forth - but there for a long time there was a lot of issues that impacted the team being discussed. The post by Vers (this post) is not about the team - it's a way to hate on a player no longer on the team and to antagonize posters. I wrote a football take in response - the summary of which was JB is better than injured Baker - Injured Baker is better than 2022 Baker on the Panthers. JB is not batter than Rookie Baker or the last half of 2021 Baker. None of that matters because neither are the future of the franchise - that guy is Watson and by any metric he is in a different ball park to either JB or any version (good, bad or awful) of BM

DSW hasn’t participated in one single competitive game in nearly 2 seasons so right now we have absolutely no idea what to expect from him when he comes back. Until we hear from him again there’s question marks about his mental stability. His last public appearance left us with more questions then answers so I think it’s justified with some worries about what we can expect in his comeback to the public arena. His physical status should be easier to judge but until we see him play again we should be careful before we make bold claims about his ability.

The total cost including lost 1rd draft picks for getting rid of Baker and getting DSW and JB was astronomical. If that’s good business or not we can’t evaluate properly until we have finished a couple seasons above expectations. If we only end up with a few play off wins but no SB appearance then it’s debatable how much of a success this trade was. Not to mention of he goes out on strike or similar and want to be traded again.

Finally when saying our decision makers did a great job improving our QB room you deliberately exclude the circumstances what actually happened. If reports are correct Cleveland Browns was one of the teams that DSW first rejected. So in the the beginning we wasn’t even his first or second best choice. Hmm. Let that sink in before you go overboard with your praise. Secondly the first reaction from our owners and FO after they were rejected was to go back to Baker, but he rejected us. Thirdly the cost of getting rid of Baker, trade DSW and get JB wasn’t exactly cheap, many pundits label it as a economical fiasco. Then we have all the bad PR. The infamous press conference in the end of Mars. All the drama in the summer and finally Watson’s latest interview when he made himself, his team and the NFL look like dumbfounded idiots. Do you label that as a success also? Upgrading our QB room comes with a cost. If it’s worth it or not the future will tell.

Don’t get me wrong I’m not totally against everything. Unlike you I can move on and let go of former Browns players. Who after five games that has the better stats between two players from different teams and different circumstances doesn’t bother me and I don’t care about Bakers future as a member of the Panther. I wish him best but apart from that he’s history.

I think it’s good to have reasonable expectations when DSW comes back. I will not hold anything against him when he’s on the field but if he continues with his weird and uncomfortable interviews he deserves what he gets.

It's why the watson thread is in the Tailgate Lot where it belongs and not used to trash up Pure Football.

This is interesting. A couple of weeks ago, I made an observation that I wouldn't roll JB out to the left much because he struggles w/that. I also said he throws the ball much better to the right and over the middle than he does throwing to his left. Check out this chart and see his numbers compared to the league average. This is not a tell-all, but it's something to monitor.

3-2 after 5 games under Baker.
2-3 after 5 games under Brisset.

Both of them had the offense scoring well enough to beat a Week 5 Chargers team and both were let down by horrific defense repeatedly in the early going.

At the absolute worst, it's a push... and that is with Brisset playing worlds better than he ever has for anyone, anywhere, and Baker beginning the stretch of his worst play, ever.

Couldn't have said it better myself - great observation!

I truly think KS has to fight his own instincts to be more pass happy and creative. I think at heart he wants to open it up even more (and I bet we do with Watson, which was the allure to having him).

I think that Stefanski has done wonders w/Baker and Jacoby. He hides weaknesses and emphasizes their strengths. Of course, that only last so long in this league. Eventually, other teams figure things out and take away certain things. There is only so much you can do w/a limited qb.

Another thing to consider is something the announcer said on Sunday. The Browns face more 8-men boxes than any team in the NFL. That was true last year, too. We still rank 2nd or 3rd in rushing attempts, but it's hard running against those fronts. You gotta open things up some.

I don't expect a ton w/Watson this year. It's going to be tricky getting him ready while games are being played. However, I am super excited to see what this offense looks like next year when Stefanski finally has a superior qb to work with. Watson is good enough to bail Stefanski out even when makes a bad call.

I would say that the 5/3 stat is nothing to brag about.

Obviously the D is a major issue, but.........

Again as with last season. I do not believe KS is doing our QB any favors.
On key offensive plays especially late in the game, his personnel as well as the formation and play calls are questionable at best.

Seriously, Why are there more formations without either Chubb or Hunt in the game?
How bout put them both in the backfield and have an audible ready dependent upon the look.

We have seen more looks this year with both 24 & 27 in the backfields but nowhere near as many as there should be.

We disagree on Stefanski. I respect that you did not resort to insults or personal attacks. I have no problem w/you disagreeing w/my takes. Different opinions are a good thing.

That's it in a nut shell - as well as the fact one player isn't on the team anymore and neither are the future of the Browns QB position.

But you know - we need some drama and stats and tweets from random people ripping on BM - it's nearly recess and the kids want something to troll about - I mean talk about - in the schoolyard.

Indeed, it is the defense that is holding us back. JB has played well enough that inserting DW isn't going to improve us all that much....

Except maybe for those 4th quarter int's. When the game is on the line is where the problem seems to be. You know, crunch time. We heard a lot about that in the past. One has to question who it is that's making excuses now? As has been shown, the Browns D has given up a lot of points in the 4th quarter for years now. Nothing about that has really changed. And nothing seems to have changed about QB play in the 4th quarter either. Let the excuse train begin.....

Jacoby has been an upgrade to Baker no doubt. Just see what is happening in Carolina! Baker is not a great QB. He could be a good game manager if he would allow himself to be that. His problem is he sees himself as a gun slinger and he does not have the physical tools and mental capacity in football to be a gun slinger. He forces too many balls. His best stretch with the Browns he spread the ball around to 7-8 receivers with short to intermediate throws. Leaned on the run game and the offense looked much like it has this year. Then came him pushing the ball down field and the drive killing, scratch your head over thrown int's. I do not miss Baker and his antics at all. I have enjoyed Brissett leading the offense and look forward to what the offense will look like when a real franchise QB is under center.

This is clear to anyone that watches the games.

Baker has a higher ceiling than Jacoby. But he is way more inconsistent.

I agree w/that, Eve. Baker definitely has a better arm and can make more plus throws. Jacoby seems to process better and often puts the ball away from the defender while protecting the receiver from a big hit. I think he is more solid as a leader. I would say that overall he doesn't take as many needless sacks and protects the ball better, although he has thrown three late-game interceptions. The first one was understandable. This last one was inexcusable. Really, really bad decision. We could have still won the game had York made the kick, but that was a horrific interception. His face told the entire story. I like Jacoby and hope we keep him around to be Watson's back-up. He's a solid dude.

These are interesting to look at and show another look at the chart I posted earlier. Here are the Next Gen charts from the last 3 weeks.

Here is Baker's chart for comparison purposes.

Wow! That Pittsburgh game chart. We hated the left side of the field.

I wonder if that was Fitzpatrick’s coverage side of the field? I would expect he plays both sides, but honestly I wasn’t paying attention.

Mayfield at least he can beat the Jets.
Also Brissett will lead us to fewer wins then 2019.
Mayfield until Brissett puts 50 on Pittsburgh with Watt on the
Field.
Mayfield undefeated against Cincinnati.
Mayfield won 6 games with Freddie while Brissett will only win 5 games with the coach of the year.

jc..

DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS...

The Browns are an example of a team that focused most of their effort in building the offense...this Browns "offense" is good enough to win a Super Bowl..! Job well done by all the front offices responsible.


BUT, looking at the Browns DEFENSIVE performances this season, it is obvious that those judging and selecting the Browns DEFENSIVE talent ...ARE LACKING SOMETHING..!
IMO, the Browns front office is lacking in experienced evaluators when it comes to selecting defensive talent. We can look right down the center of the Browns defense and pick the weaknesses. The middle of the DLine/DTs..the inside LBs..and our safeties are sub-par.

The Browns need a defensive guru to help the front office make better defensive selections, imo.

DEFENSE STILL WINS CHAMPIONSHIP...!!!

This thread should not only be banned but sent to the nether regions of hell.

How dare you - what the heck would Vers have to post about then..................

I've said before that Jacoby is not as good throwing to his left. I noticed it a few weeks ago. It gets worse if he is rolling left. Fitz is a FS now, so it's not really one side or another unless they in an even coverage like Cover 2, 4, or 6. Even then, the safeties don't get too wide. I will say that Fitz did not have his usual impact us. We probably schemed to throw away from him????

While we are waiting, While y'all are waiting

This is what it boils down to ain't it.

The Team
and
The League

has had you waiting since I994

Waiting since I994,

waiting for what? a championship???? no Heck no, That ain't even in the @uestion, waiting for what then??

To Field a whole team.

since I994 to field a whole team of real parts 28 years analyze that.

Wake up, neither the League or the Team will ever allow you to see a winner in any of yours lifetimes

it is ...

I2-0 0-I2 same difference the Browns aren't doing anything this year or next year either.

" While we are waiting" so sad we/ya'll will be waiting till the end of civilization.

He still gets off on being the ultimate troll AND the refs let him/her do what it wants. Him/Her must have photos.

Are/were the Browns better OFF with Baker or McRapey as the Franchise guy? Better in wins only, maybe DW, but that is left to be seen. Baker is a much higher character guy, with no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

JB playing at this level would be preferred over DW by a large part of the fanbase. We all want to win, but only some so bad that they can justify signing a sexual predator to be the face of the franchise. JB seems like a true high-character guy IMO. Too bad We didn't know how well JB would play before we sold the farm for captain rapey.

Sometimes we goad others into doing these things OP.

Yea, i read you saying about rolling to his left. Yea, that was my thought process about Fitz (about one side or the other). I would expect we were scheming throwing away from him (I had that as one of my main points in the Steelers thread) but damn, that is blatant that we didn't throw to the left. Especially when looking at the other games throw charts.

Aside from football, the saddest part of this whole thing is for all he's done, nothing has happened to Watson. Yes, I know he lost some money and missed a few football games but is he really paying for what he did? In a few short weeks, Watson will put on that uniform and become the face of the franchise. The women will have to relive what he did to them for an eternity. Guys like Watson who go unpunished look at this a a free pass to continue their predatory activities and it'll only be a matter of time before he strays again, JMHO.

Good grief! Watson is living rent free in your mind.

Like Baker is in some other posters minds?

No!

LMAO!

Looks like your thread took a turn, Vera.

Baker against 49rs

Ahhh - yes, I remember these sort of factual responses to the personal attacks. A good response to Steve ripping on you. Thanks for the reminder!

Wow. That's really interesting - no idea who the person is breaking down the film, and I skimmed through to the time stamps listed - but interesting. I might not agree with every conclusion after a throw breakdown - but certainly really interesting.

I find it hard to compare the two QBs unless they play with the same team...so its a theorhetical situation. Where would Baker have had us in 5 games playing for the Browns.

Looking at stats on a team that is in the realm of Hue's years here - to JB playing for a Browns team whose Offense is considered Championship grade. And that is all I have to say.

Stefanski...I've cooled down as a fan - I was hoping and still hope that he's finally THE ONE! But I have not been impressed. He was Coach of the year on a year that there was no coaching because of Covid so that is tough to say WOW!

To the PLAY CALL objectors - Let me tell you that is the wrong bridge to travel on. Cause in judging coaching I think you have to judge the EXECUTION of plays. Not what play it is. All plays should work if they are executed correctly. And that is all I have to say.

That's fair. However, there was a lot of talk before the season about this topic. And while several posters are permitted to insult and name call over this topic, you better believe that they would be talking about Baker and Jacoby if this year's qb numbers and rankings were reversed.



I feel just the opposite. Do you remember all the conversations surrounding Shanny when he was w/this team. I might have been the only poster defending him at the end. And I didn't like that hire at first either. But, I saw excellence. I see the same w/Stefanski. They are actually very similar in many ways.



100% agreed.

I don't think this is an accurate recollection of Shanny's time here at all. I think many posters - myself included thought Shanny was a fabulous offensive mind and OC. The problem was his attitude, arrogance, not being a team player, and generally looking and acting like he was smarter than anyone one else in the organization ... which might have been true - but when you are the OC, you need to be the OC and not harbor resentment or act like you think you should be the HC. . . . Maybe I'm mis-remembering and am being too hard on his attitude when he was here? But many posters felt then and do now, he was the best OC we've had.

Jacoby is better is many areas. He is more mature than Baker.
Baker has insecurities. Brissett is aware of his limitations as
A QB. Brissett understands his role.
I think Brissett is calming factor in the locker room.
Baker divided locker rooms. Baker's career is built on stupid
Overused cliches.
I give Brissett credit. It's not easy coming into team knowing
After 11 games you are back on the bench. That's called
Character. Baker could never do that.his ego over rides his actual
Ability.

You haven't been reading the board have you?

While some people wish to put all he has done out of their minds and accept it. Their excuse? "And you should forget it too or we'll make it sound like you're the one with the problem."

j/c...

Baker had similar numbers at the end of games. Is this an overall offense issue? Or just two bad QBs?

I was actually going for the roll on the floor emoji, but I just now discovered the full editor feature.

This is what I really wanted... ...the words don't do the picture justice.

😁
Have to say it's impossible to counter these facts you are coming up with!

Lol

I think to this point, Baker would have won the 3 games the Browns have lost and lost the two they have won.

Because how he played in the past.

Brissett's team is 1 game better than Baker's team.

2-3, 1-4 ....... Neither is very good right now.

The Browns only having two wins has nothing to do with Brissett.

This is obvious to anyone who watches the games.

I think Baker has a career losing record. He won cause of the talent and scheme around him.
Teams never won cause of Baker. For a 1st RD , 1st pick overall
He could never put a team on his shoulders.
So if he was still QB, he might even be 1 and 4.
I can't believe he still has people that think he is a legit
Starting QB

Like I said elsewhere, If Jacoby could do well on dropbacks inside the opponents I0 yard line, the Browns would be better, they'd have more than 2 wins probably.
He's had a LOT of bad dropbacks there. Like 0-for-ten.

How many 4th quarter INT have led to losses, or at least strongly contributed to them? I think that every one of his INTs have. (IIRC)

Besides, I said his team.

I call BS!. Brissett is ranked extremely high in whatever metric you want to use. PFF, QBR, etc. Baker is at the bottom of the barrel. Time to give it up.

I said that one person's team has one more win than the other, and you guys dispute a .... fact? Do you dispute that he has had inopportune INT late in 3 games? Really? What is non-factual about that? Please tell me.

I disputed your comment that stated: Neither is very good right now." I disagree. Jacoby has been a far better qb than Baker thus far. I find that fact indisputable and it is why I started this thread after all the BS talk before the year began. I do agree w/you that the interception in the last game was terrible. In fact, I said so multiple times. The Jets game? Dude led us to two late scores. Threw a desperation late pick after our D and Special teams blew it. Would you have blamed Baker for that? LMAO...let's be real. He led the team to the game-winning FG against Carolina after the D blew it. He led late scores against Pittsburgh. He threw a terrible pick against ATL, but put us in position to win.

Dude is playing well above expectations and he is a better qb than Baker Mayfield right now. That isn't even debatable.

Have you watched every snap Mayfield has taken in 22?

I have. He has been cringeworthy. It's been tough to watch. It would not surprise me if he is out of the league next year.

i agree YTown. right now what separates JB from Baker is the overall QB play through 4 quarters. JB is more consistently accurate throughout the game than Baker is.

however, just like Baker struggling to close out games in the 4th quarter and throwing picks, JB struggles with the same thing; unable to make THE throw at THE time needed most, some resulting in turnovers.

JB is better for this team right now than Baker, but it isn't saying much because a lot of posters last year correctly stated that if we just got average QB play, we'd be good. we're getting good QB play which is one of the reasons we're so efficient on offense. but when we need greatness in the 4th, both QB's are backups.

Man. Talk about fool's gold. Birssett has been hot garbage. The only thing worse then his arm is his ridiculously bad timing and decisions.

Jacoby Bris💩

My title says it all

Brissett was awful today, but he played well enough for the Browns to open the season at 4-1.

Coaching is the primary issue with this team. The head coach is awful and his defensive staff is awful.

2 wins 4 losses
Baker last year 3 wins 3 losses.

Baker is the worst qb in the league by a country mile.

yeah...no.. I don't think he's good but he's def. not the worst

Until today. A 44 rating at the half iirc. more turnovers in the 2nd half including fumbles.

He may be better than a few backups, but that's debatable.

I'd say he an Brissett are about even par

there will be multiple games in the season where the QB has to be able to put a team on his back to go win. that inability is why JB is a backup.

Facts

Don't sweat it, he's better than the last guy. And at this point, that's not a cheap dig.

He’s regressing to what he is: not good. He was doing OK against bad teams who didnt know how we’d use him. The jig is up now and he’s not good.

We’re in for a very long few weeks

Can't do the weekly comparisons because Baker didn't play, but Jacoby was really bad yesterday.

I have noticed that he is often late on his deep throws. He has to see them open. He doesn't throw those passes w/anticipation. Take the first interception for example. The play was open for a huge gain down the right sideline. JB stares at it and then launches a high floater that was short, but more-so late.

He missed a lot of passes yesterday because he was late w/the ball and/or inaccurate. He is better when he drops back and has to zip the ball in on intermediate routes w/tight coverage. That's kind of odd, but it looks to be true.

The timing was off. He is not the kind of guy to elevate the team. He will probably have some more good games, but he put the ball in harm's way more times than I would have believed yesterday.

On a positive note, at least we don't have to read all the BS posts about how the OL was trying to get him killed; the WRs were running wrong routes; the drops, the receivers not fighting for the ball; how the playcalling was holding him back, etc, etc

His deep ball is quite bad. He was SO late on a few yesterday .. and he has a terrible habit of leading WRs right out of bounds (like Brady Quinn)

He is late on most of his throws. Has been all year long. That 1/4 to 1/2 second is the difference between success and failure. He also hardly ever hits the receiver in stride. Throws are low and away, or over their heads, leading to less YAC.

Newsflash - they both suck.

At this point why not give first team reps to Mond

Thanks for posting.

Though to me (for whatever it's worth), this kind of player "speech" like the players only one after the Jets loss not only lacks any real meaning or hope, but stinks of the rah-rah desperation stuff of a team that has lost any semblance of identity.

Brissett is a good guy.

But our problems are not ones of "pulling together", team unity or getting through bad times.

Players (especially on defense) are simply making fundamental football mistakes whether it be through scheme or lack of ability. Consistently.

No unity speech is going to correct that, neither is Watson when he comes back - no matter how he plays. I don't quite buy that players are quitting on their coaches due to lack of faith or laziness. It's a lot simpler than that.

Play sound, professional football on each and every down, cut out the ridiculous brain breezes, and these inspirational team speeches won't be taking place or necessary to report.

Imo.

With all the PFF talk going on today, I looked at the QB grades.

Jacoby fell down to 10th overall out of 36 graded qbs. Baker did not play, but remains last on the list.

Thank you for that update....

Thanks, although it is a bummer that JB dropped from 7th overall to 10th. It was expected after that clunker game, but downward movement is not good.

We are still better off with Brisset. They both aren't good, but at least Brisset doesn't have 5 batted passes every other game.

Jacoby is a 1325 yards 60% passer with a 6 TD to 5 TD ratio in 6 games.

Baker is at 975 yards 55% and 4 TD's to 4 INT's in 5 games


they are basically the same person.

Brisset has been ok... I think he's an upgrade over baker, but not much of one... has thrown INTs at the worst times in a couple of games... this last game he was awful.... hope he plays better against the Rats... but we need Watson ASAP

Bring in Dobbs for a series or two if JB keeps putting up Baker-like #s.

Problem with this argument is the results.. we still lose and QB has a huge part of why. As far as JB vs BM, Baker 2018, 2019 looked better than Brissett could possibly dream of looking. Weve already seen the best of Jacoby, it doesn't get any better from here on out.. its all about survival until Dec 4 now, but I feel we will long be out of any playoff discussion by then so Watson will just be getting back in game shape.. this is a throwaway year.. I don't care what the team is saying. Everyone sees it.

Actually, if you're going to be so inclined to continue to beat up on a QB that isn't even here anymore, the least you could do is compare apples to apples instead of trying to prove your argument with pure trash. If you have to compare to satisfy your blatant hatred for the player, at least compare the replacement to the former's prior results before you get on here skipping through la la land like you proved something. The team as a whole has basically the same nucleus in 2020, 2021, and 2022. If you're hell bent on comparing Brissett's play to the former QB, at least compare it to whether we actually are getting better play or not on this team, the Cleveland Browns.

Brissett 2022 Browns - 2 wins, 4 losses - 124/206, 60.2% - 1326 yards - 6 TD's - 5 INT's - 88.4 QB Rating
Mayfield 2021 Browns - 3 wins, 3 losses - 116/173, 67.1% - 1474 yards - 6 TD's - 3 INT's - 105.0 QB Rating (played injured for 4 of 6 games)
Mayfield 2020 Browns - 4 wins, 2 losses - 103/170, 60.1% - 1095 yards - 10 TD's - 6 INT's - 98.4 QB Rating

When you compare apples to apples instead of skewing the numbers, the Cleveland Browns are "NOT" getting better QB play at the position compared to the last 2-years. It most definitely has a bearing on why the Browns have a worse record this year out of the last 3 with a 5-week brutal schedule staring us in the face. Amazing how hatred will make you look the other way no matter the facts.

Are you trying to tell me that in quantitative comparisons it is better to compare samples from the most similar situations as opposed to starkly different situations? I guess I see your point - but why would anyone try to skew the facts in a more negative light I wonder?

I should warn you that posting contrary facts to the OP's intent will get you cancelled (blocked).

It's amazing when you actually have the facts - they don't lie like most of the hatred posts we constantly have to read.

Let's take it just a little bit further down the hatred path. When we compare apples to apples, who actually had more offensive adversity to deal with these first 6-weeks?

Brissett:
In 2022, the scheduled starters and key backups have basically been in place for Brissett:
Cooper 6/6 games played, DPJ 6/6, Njoku 6/6, Wills 6/6, Conklin 4/6, Teller 6/6, Bitonio 6/6, Hubbard 6/6, Hudson 6/6, Chubb 6/6, Hunt 6/6.

Baker Mayfield
In 2021, the scheduled starters and key backups that were in place for Mayfield:
Beckham 4/6 games played, Landry 2/6, Njoku 5/6, Wills 4/6, Conklin 5/6, Teller 6/6, Bitonio 6/6, Hubbard 1/6, Hudson 5/6, Chubb 5/6, Hunt 6/6
Let's not forget, Mayfield played 4 of these first 6 games with a serious injury.

In 2020, the scheduled starters and key backups that were in place for Mayfield:
Beckham 6/6 games played, Landry 6/6, Njoku 3/6, Wills 6/6, Conklin 5/6, Teller 5/6, Bitonio 6/6, Hubbard 5/6, Chubb 4/6, Hunt 6/6

So, if you actually compare apples to apples, if Brissett had been subjected to the same number of injuries to the offense as Mayfield endured, do we really believe he'd be close to the numbers he has (Brissett) posted thus far?

Or a game or two. Just sayin'.

Dobbs has thrown 17 passes in his career, if I am not mistaken. Jacoby has the 10th best PFF grade among qbs in the league. He is also 10th overall in QBR. He does not deserve to be removed from the lineup.

Granted, he played poorly against NE. A lot of QBs do. How did we do against NE last year? And frankly, earlier this week, I pointed out how bad Jacoby played last week. So, it's not like I am his champion. If I would have said the same exact things about Baker after a game in years past as I said about JB this week, many on here would have went nuts.

I think there are other guys that deserve to be sat way more than Jacoby does.

The reality is this thread was created because Baker has been horrible with the Panthers and the OP has a deep seated hatred of the player so it was a way to get some cheap kicks in while the guy is down.

As you have highlighted - proper comparison and analysis would be a healthy Baker with the same/similar cast as Brissett - but you've shown even injured Baker was as good or better than JB.

Sadly none of this helps the team this year - we are 2-4 and look lost against NE. Without a miraculous turn around we will be 2-5 by the end of Sunday.

Not quite yet. If we find ourselves at 2-5 or 2-6, then maybe mix it up a little bit for some fun.

Imo

I don't understand why Dobbs didn't get a few series last Sunday... with so much fumblin' bumblin' going on in a game that was out of reach.

we went off the rails after baker. we were off the rails before baker. we deserve to be the browns team that never learned

Wow, two more players come out with statements confirming what Mayfield said was happening last year and chastised for it. I guess there are locker room issues, but it wasn't the former QB causing them. Funny how the facts always come out.........

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...mp;cvid=8e69894b04124a23965b81ed3122eca9

This can't be - I read for fact that the player no longer on the team was THE reason the locker room was divided.

I know - we should get OBJ back, that'd fix everything right !

The "I know football better than anyone else" will be silent on this one, you can bet.

Baker could be the reason the locker room fractured. His departure wouldn't necessarily fix that. Chemistry and trust take a lot longer to build than destroy.

Jacoby is 10x mature than Mayfield. Brissets ego is in check.
Mayfield could never admit to himself is a lower tiered NFL QB.
Brissett will be in this league longer than Baker based on
Maturity alone.

This could well be true - and I do think that Baker and his injury and his attitude and maturity played a part in creating issues in the locker room. I don't think the OBJ v Baker thing was real - only in some poster's imagination. Players who were vocal about OBJ had good things to say about Baker ... the KS / Baker / Injury thing was a real to me, and to Steve's point, we've heard players alluding to and apparently questioning the play calling this year which is what Baker did after one game last year when he had a little hissy fit. Baker was roundly vilified for that. Less condemnation of our current team. As for as KS and Baker - I think the lack of trust grew and we are better off without him and Watson as a player is clearly a huge upgrade..... as far as the fractured locker room this year - I think it's way worse than anything we saw when BM was in the house.

As for Jacoby and the last comment about his maturity being 10x Baker - for sure. But Jacoby isn't ever going to have a season like Baker's rookie season or his last 9 games of 2021. Take your pick on which is more important to winning.

The issues they're talking about aren't chemistry and trust, they're talking about some of the guys not taking their job seriously and not putting in the work necessary to be a professional. There's nothing to build except competency.

There is the question of why guys aren't taking their job seriously though. If there is a fracture in the locker room, no matter where it started, it can cause people to not want to be there.

Our view of what is actually happening is so skewed that it really is just guess work.

I think BMs rookie season quite a anomaly. He went in
No pressure on his shoulders. He balled out for sure.
But he a decent supporting cast. 8 different players caught TD
Passes that year from Baker.
But he also didn't face any great defenses in those 14 games
But when you say winning, that's a broad term.
In 2021 Baker played light out. But Stefanski's offense
There was no film on it. The offense was always ahead
Of opposing defenses
And again that year, Baker had a very productive supporting
Cast. Landry and Beckham played at high levels Hunt played
Out of his mind.
What people forget about Brissett is that, this is his 4th or 5th offensive
System he has played in. Considering he was a 4th RD pick
He isn't doing too bad

This.

And this goes back to Stefanski. If guys are saying this that means he's an awful leader. A figurehead with a HC title and none of the intangibles that make a great head coach.

His offense as long as he has great players is fine. What does he actually do as the head coach of the team? He has clearly lost the locker room 6 games into a season they started 2-1. It's like the frigging titanic.

'All we are saying, is give Dobbs a chance.'

(Note: Sung to the tune of 'Give Peace a chance,' just in case that didn't click in.)

Huh? We hadn't won a game in well over a year. He didn't get ONE snap in practice with the 1st team. There were coolers of free beer all over town waiting to open up after a W. No pressure?


Who threw the passes? What was his performance in the red zone?


Wait...what...winning is the most narrow term there is in professional sports.


OBJ played (7) games before tearing his ACL. His stats: Beckham finished the 2020 season with 23 catches for 319 yards and three receiving touchdowns plus three rushes for 72 yards and a rushing touchdown in seven games played. Baker went on his tear AFTER OBJ was out. He had Landry & Higgins as a WR cast with Capt Fall Down at TE. For the Browns most-meaningful WIN STR, Ski was in his basement at home.

Baker was bad in 2021 AFTER the injury...he's looked bad in CAR in 2022...but what he did HERE before the shoulder injury was very good.

When Baker stepped in as QB , the Browns were 1 31. The bar
Could not have been set any lower. It's not like Baker took
The reigns of a franchise that was a playoff team the year
Before. Winning 7 games that year was like NE or Pittsburgh
Winning 11.

If a team goes 9-8...but misses the playoffs, is that "winning"?
Baker won 1 playoff game in his Browns career.
Hardly a great accomplishment

Yes, but absolutely no. There is zero chance there is a fracture in the locker room that is keeping guys, perhaps all of our DBs based on performance?, from treating their jobs like a job and being professional and is all because of a guy that ISN'T HERE.
Yes, dissent among the ranks can cause all sorts of problems, but nobody is dumb enough to be creating issues like this over a guy that is elsewhere. They all know the business side of things and that is where it ends. There is a higher likelihood of me winning the lottery tonight, and I'm not buying any tickets.


Super short and simple: Our Problems This Year Have Nothing To Do With Baker Mayfield.

The bar was low - Baker performed admirably and set then Rookie records. I think you grossly undermine what Baker did - the team under Tyrod for the first 2 full games that year was insipid. Baker stepped in and it was very different. Baker wore out his welcome here - he player badly under Freddie and when he was injured - but your attempt to not acknowledge the difference from 1-31 team and the 0-2 Tyrod team in 2018 is baffling.

You can bet your azz that when the Browns lose the excuses will fly - oh wait, they already are flying. Anyway, when Watson takes the field, every loss will be someone else's fault. Stefanski better put his big boy pants on because when Watson comes back all responsibility will fall back to where it should have been in the first place - to Stefanski.

20 wins in 2 years verses 2 with the deshaun era.

Baker is a bad QB. He will be out of the NFL next year. No amount of whining and crying is going to change that. You would think with how awful he played this year that would have settled it once and for all but his fan club runs deep.

Baker excelled his rookie season because there were low expectations. He usually played well when expectations were low and played poorly when expectations were high.

This isn't about Baker; this is about the Browns looking like an amateur team on the field. This is about the "no excuse" stance taken in 2021 and the "it's not his fault" stance in 2022. It's pointing out that the same issues pointed out last year are still happening this year without the supposed creator who is long gone. Those are facts that unlike last year cannot be disputed this year because now multiple players are pointing it out. So, who is responsible for this? That's the discussion and has nothing to do with Baker except maybe he was right.

It doesn't really matter if Baker is out of the NFL next year or not - he's not a Brown. He's played worse than ever at the Panthers. However - it also doesn't matter why or when he played well as a Brown - he jointed a franchise stuck in a losing rut of 1-31 games. We looked bad wit Tyrod - Baker stepped in a lit it up. He also helped take us to the playoffs. I'll always feel good about those things and about what he brought to the Browns. As everyone has said - Baker fanboy or not - Watson is a huge improvement based on how he played 2 years ago. His talent is better than Baker's - and he is on the team. So that's really what matters - let's hope he's as good as he ever was - and I'll leave the off the field issues and sitting out at Houston to the side, character and maturity are different conversations as far as I am concerned.

Baker is what he is. He has shown consistent inconsistency. The idea about him being a winner no matter where he was ran smack dab into the Peter Principle.

Brissett was/is/always will be a back-up. That is what he is here for.

Of more concern is the continued dumpster fire. If this doesn’t get straightened out then I can see bad things on the horizon including Watson getting paid for not being here down the road.

Just a reminder what the thread is really about. Look back to the original post. That was steve who made those comments. Calling me a liar for an opinion about how the two QBs would perform THIS SEASON. I started posting the JB/Baker comparisons after the very first game because of the trash that steve and the other Baker fans were spewing all off-season.

To recap, Jacoby is 10th overall in both QBR and in the PFF rankings. Baker Mayfield is dead last in both categories. During the first four games, Jacoby had fewer sacks, a better completion percentage, the same number of TDs, and fewer interceptions. Insults and trying to change the topic does not change the facts and what this thread was about.

You still don't get it. Everybody but you have moved on from Mayfield. The Mayfield posts are in response to your constant rants and hatred for a person who's not even here anymore. The vast majority of us are focused on the fact our Browns are stinking up the joint and are sitting 2-4 after having the 3rd easiest schedule in the NFL. Who gives a crap how Mayfield is doing on a much inferior team except you. His performance cannot be compared to Brissett's because the metrics are so different, but you keep telling yourself you're right. At least you have one person in your corner.

You are literally intolerable. Your ego knows no end. You are pit, but in football. Your hatred, and bias, and calling other's out for exactly the same thing you do yourself is just pathetic. You have fun. Don't forget to remind us of how wealthy you are, don't forget to tell us ...............eh, you're not worth it.

3 wins no losses against Burrows.
50 against Pittsburgh
Stefanski 1st to last
Procession rests.

Baker is a bad QB. He will be out of the NFL next year. No amount of whining and crying is going to change that. You would think with how awful he played this year that would have settled it once and for all but his fan club runs deep.

Baker excelled his rookie season because there were low expectations. He usually played well when expectations were low and played poorly when expectations were high.

I don't know if he will be out of the league, but I doubt he will earn a starting job again. All the BS rhetoric on here from his fan base won't change the fact that he stinks.

And to think we could have had Josh Allen.....
[

Or, or, ... or...

The organization, turned its back on its own again... sad but ?(true?) just maybe.
I was contemplating the after Watson era, pretty sure it'll come sooner than many would think.

Name me a team that drafted #1 overall and that player (QB) took over the reins of a franchise that was a playoff team the year before. There are 3 reasons top QB draft picks fail. 1) They are coming to a loser that has a poor line and hasn't addressed it. 2) According to Sean Payton, "Teams take QB's out of their skill set by making them change to an offensive scheme not geared to their skills. 3. QB not given the time to grow to the NFL level. It used to be a draft pick QB sat for a year or two to enhance their skill set and adjust to the speed. Today, you have to learn on the run which is seriously hampered if the line is bad or the QB has to change skill sets. Anyway, #1 pick QB's always go to the worst teams the prior year and the bar is set extremely high because winning is the exact reason why they were drafted in the first place. That supporting cast you mentioned was 1-31 the two prior years so I wouldn't give them anywhere near a very productive supporting cast coming into the Browns. Oh geez, maybe it was the QB that raised their level of play then.

Hhow about that QB choosen #1 overall fails because he
Has a poor work ethic or , was surrounded by immense talent
In college which made him look better than what he was.
Baker was very overrated coming out of OU.
Had wide open passing windows to throw into
And had a great cast of talent around him.
Let's face, his work ethic was not the best when he reached the pros

I'll totally agree with that but considering the Browns drafted Manziel, I don't believe they focus on work method very much in Cleveland. Hey, isn't that exactly what Bitonio and Cooper were just bitching about? Seems like it's an accepted practice in Cleveland.

Better with Brissett. Now people will need a different scapegoat.

Both back-ups. Who cares?

Brissett had a pretty good game yesterday. It was far better than his performance against New England. He was 22 of 27. That is a 81.5 completion percentage rate. He threw for 258 yards. No TDs and no picks. He did have one fumble, but not sure he can take too much heat for that one. He was sacked 5 times, which is too much. I think he held the ball too long on some of those, but the OL was giving up quick pressure at times in both the run and pass game. JB also eluded a few other sacks and turned disasters into positive plays or at least avoided drive-killing negative plays.

Signing Jacoby has turned out to be a wise move by Berry. He will be a valuable back-up to Watson and is actually performing well above expectations as a starter. I never thought he would play this well. I don't think anyone else other than Quincy Carrier thought that, either.

And your response is exactly why people say stats are for losers.

Meanwhile...

When the Panthers signed Mayfield , it was full tank mode.

Seems like we went into tank mode when we traded him. The Panthers have as many wins as us with a much less talented team.

Some people would rather not discuss that part. Can't say I blame them.

The Browns haven't gone into tank mode, and trading the worst QB in the league wouldn't indicate that.

What the Browns have are leadership and competency voids at all levels of the organization.

The fact that the solution to having an awful head coach and an awful staff is to trade Kareem Hunt is about all the evidence you need to see how incompetent and dysfunctional this organization is.

It's comedic at this point.

Please explain how making a prudent move with a player that is worth much more to another team (and is of limited worth to our own) is evidence of incompetence?

Please explain how this organization thinks this is a solution for all that is wrong?


If we kept him, used him at the same rate we have been, finished marching through a lost season, and then got a measly 3rd round comp (really a high 4th) in return; you'd be using the same superlatives to point out how inept they are next year.

Agreed and KH contract is up after the season. He probably won't sign with us again.

Though some on this forum have been posting like maniacs claiming the vast improvement at QB with JB over Mayfield, when you actually compare their comparable Browns raw number work, it's a much different story. Mayfield is gone but please quit fooling yourself that Brissett is performing better than when Mayfield was here - he is not (at least through 7-weeks).

QB___________Comp_Att__yards___PCT___TD___INT___QB Rate___Sacks__W___L___T__W/L PCT
Brissett_______146__233__1584___62.7%__6____5______90.85____14____2___5___0___0.286
Mayfield 2021__116__173__1474___67.1%__6____3_____104.73____18____4___3___0___0.571 (played 4 of 6 games injured, missed week 7)
Mayfield 2020__125__198__1392___63.1%_15____7_____108.64____11____5___2___0___0.714

I like D'Ernest Johnson every bit as much as KH....

OMG !!!!

An actual meaningful football comparison !! How refreshing.

We can all like him az much az we want.
But it won't make a cr--s bit of difference about the FACT that he isn't as good of a player
at playing football
and it Ain't Even Close.

and Letz not pretend that it doesn't matter.
Becauze when the going getz tough, a team needz real playerz.

They don't have much.
And media uplifted hopefulz, like rookie from UC, He ain't Kareem Hunt either.

The organization iz a (...) and deserves exactly what they'll get. If they don't want to take winning seriously
or even their brand seriously anymore,
then I don't see any reason to buy their bC anymore.

Jacoby Brisset ??? are you KIDDING ME, I can't ## believe it.

Reading your post is like watching a pixelated TV screen. DJ can pound the ball better than KH thus able to spell NC throughout the game. That is not KH's game....

This is the only qb thread I see, so here is this news on about how Matt Ryan has handled things. I doubt he will be having a podcast to throw shade on others.

So you place some relevance on Ryan not having a podcast? I bet that after a terrible defensive performance by his team he isn't saying the biggest disappointment of the game is that the fans booed them either. But of course with you it's never actually been about the message. It's more focused on the messenger.

we are 0=5 when chub rushes less than 20 carries

but, like the old "Run William Green 25 times a Game" argument, is that a chicken or egg thing. Are we 2-0 because he's getting those carries, or is he getting those carries because we're ahead and burning clock?

In most of our games this season, we have rushed 30 times or more per game. More than a few of those games have been close, late-game, losses. Only the last two games were miserably bad in the rushing attempts category (less than 20 vs Patriots, less than 25 vs Ravens).

That said, when you look at the rushing effectiveness by looking at YPC from this past game, you do have to wonder why we didn't go with it more. It's just not a matter of the raw numbers, but more a situational thing - such as has been pointed out with how we handled things at the end of the first half.

⁰2 wins in the new Deshaun Era.
He is worth 3 number 1s and 2 number 2s

Meanwhile......

Panthers QB Baker Mayfield will be available in Week 8 vs. Falcons
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Anthony Rizzuti follow
October 26, 2022 4:00 pm ET

Carolina Panthers quarterback Baker Mayfield began his 2022 season on a mission to prove the NFL wrong. But now, it looks as though he’ll have to prove his own team wrong, too.

Mayfield, who is apparently healthy enough to play for the first time since sustaining a high-ankle sprain back in Week 5, will still not be getting the start against the Atlanta Falcons on Sunday. Interim head coach Steve Wilks told reporters that Mayfield ran with the second and scout teams during Wednesday’s practice and should be in uniform for Week 8.



“Yes,” he replied when asked if Mayfield would be active for the upcoming NFC South matchup. “Sam [Darnold] is still on his progression of his 21 days. And, definitely, Baker should be available on Sunday.”

Considering he was inactive in the last two outings, Mayfield will assume the backup role for the first time in Carolina—something Wilks later stated he was okay with.

“He understood exactly where we were going this week,” he said of conversation with his quarterbacks. “Knows his role and he was fine with that.”

Where they’re going this week will see PJ Walker under center once again. After a muffled performance in Los Angeles, Walker bounced back with an eye-opening Week 7 showing in the upset win over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers—connecting on 16 of his 22 throws for 177 yards and two touchdowns.

Unfortunately for Mayfield, he couldn’t make the most out of his five games thus far—mustering up 962 yards, four touchdowns and four interceptions while completing what is currently a career-low 54.9 percent of his passes. So, time will tell if there’s a game No. 6 in his future.

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2022/10/26/panthers-qb-baker-mayfield-pj-walker-week-8-falcons/

That's great. It appears the only one who really cares anymore at this point is you. But let's look at the Browns current QGB shall we? You know the "team you support".


Sadly he is still the Browns starter.

But he protects the ball.

I think that losing the 2 Maliks in the middle of the DL contributes to Chubb not getting 20 carries a game.
YA.
it's complicated, , actually not really, pretty simple if you consider it.

Why is this still a thing?

It appears there is only one deranged person who really cares anymore at this point. But hey, let's keep the hatred on the front burner rather than look at the Browns current situation. You know, our team that's stinking up the field on a weekly basis.

I wish you would make comments like that when others hijack threads w/insults and lies.

Now he's a victim of his very own actions.

Sometimes I do, but it’s never planned. I don’t spend a lot of time getting into board fights, cuz it’s a time-waster.

That's fine..........but, at least I talk football almost all the time. They talk personalities. Think about that for just a moment.

I'll say one thing on the subject matter. Bakers' stats the last 2 years and Jacoby's stats are similar, but Jacoby just LOOKS better.

Brisket is starting until Watson gets back, period.

Who actually gives a damn what is happening with Mayfield?

JB is so up and down, but he really had himself a game last night!!

A ton of people do. Thus, all the personal insults.

One person. He uses it as a tool to be in constant martyr-mode. And induce what he likes to call "attacks by bullies", just like this post right here. After a while I realized that he enjoys this so much that I am actually providing a public service... 'cuz if he ain't happy, ain't nobody happy. You're welcome.

Jacoby was 17 of 22, which equates to 77.3 completion percentage. This follows his 81.% percentage last week in Baltimore. He threw for 278 yards last night, w/a 12.6 average per attempt. That is an outstanding number. He threw for a TD and ran for another. He did not have an interception or a fumble. His QBR was 81.3, which is great. His rating was 133.7, which is also very high.

Meanwhile, Baker Mayfield was benched in favor of PJ Walker.

For those of you who keep questioning the point of the thread, go back to the original post and read the comments that steve made. Combine that w/all the BS from the Fabulous Baker Boys all offseason and you'll have your answer. If you are offended by the comparison, don't freaking read it.

Back to Jacoby. The guy has had a couple of poor games, but he has actually played very well this season. Far above anyone's expectations, including my own. Certainly far better than those who repeatedly claimed that Baker was a superior qb. His PFF ranking is 8th best in the league at 77.5, which is close to elite.

Meanwhile, Baker is 38th out of 38 ranked qbs by PFF and his QBR is 33rd out of 33 ranked qbs.

Maybe it's time for some of you to admit how freaking wrong you were?

*Digs for Josh Rosen stats*

I'm going to assume the question means how wrong they were about Baker.

I'm a little surprised, not entirely but a little, that there hasn't been one from that group that has just come out and said they got it wrong.

It's probably because you keep rubbing their noses in it so they are going to keep digging their heels in, but if you were looking for overwhelming evidence that he is not a good QB it's there. Yet no acknowledgement at all.

I get being loyal to a guy, but this is just plain dumb.

Who is "that group", Rish??

It seems like it's some mysterious "clan" whose presence you two hold way too close to your heart.

Why don't you guys make a list? That way everyone can come here single-file and beg forgiveness for their sins... and bow to the Gods of all football knowledge.

You know his reply is certainly an odd one. He claims he has many of what he calls "The Baker Boys" on ignore. So how the hell would he know what they have or have not posted? So either he doesn't have them on ignore and does know what they are posting which would mean he's a liar or he does have them on ignore and has no idea what they have said. Take your pick. I know I posted how much better Carolina has played since they replaced Baker and the HC. How much each of those moves played independently in and of themselves is anyone's guess but my guess would be the team didn't believe in either of them. But how would he know that? And there is no doubt that Brissett has had games including the one last night where he has shined. He also had a stretch of games where he played miserably. Overall he certainly played better than Baker did this year. But as has been noted, the only one who seems to care is Vers.

As I previously posted: "Actually, if you're going to be so inclined to continue to beat up on a QB that isn't even here anymore, the least you could do is compare apples to apples instead of trying to prove your argument with pure trash. If you have to compare to satisfy your blatant hatred for the player, at least compare the replacement to the former's prior results before you get on here skipping through la la land like you proved something. The team as a whole has basically the same nucleus in 2020, 2021, and 2022. If you're hell bent on comparing Brissett's play to the former QB, at least compare it to whether we actually are getting better play or not on this team, the Cleveland Browns."

No one is interested in what is happening to Mayfield in Carolina. The point of your preseason posts was and has been that with Mayfield gone the Browns would get better safer QB play from Brissett than when Mayfield was here. Again, the stats tell a completely different story than what you are trying to sell on this forum.

Updated Results through 8-games:
Brissett 2022 Browns - 3 wins, 5 losses - 163/255, 63.9% - 1862 yards - 7 TD's - 5 INT's - 94.6 QB Rating - 16 sacks - 5 fumbles
Mayfield 2021 Browns - 4 wins, 4 losses - 136/204, 66.7% - 1699 yards - 6 TD's - 3 INT's - 102.0 QB Rating - 22 sacks - 4 fumbles (played injured for 6 of 8 games)
Mayfield 2020 Browns - 5 wins, 3 losses - 137/223, 61.4% - 1514 yards - 15 TD's - 7 INT's - 103.0 QB Rating - 11 sacks - 1 fumble

When you compare apples to apples instead of skewing the numbers, the Cleveland Browns are "NOT" getting better QB play at the position compared to the last 2-years as you so stated in your opinion. If fact, the injured Baker has outperformed Brissett in the categories you deemed so vitally important, and an uninjured Mayfield is significantly better. That doesn't mean that the position will not be upgraded with Watson but that's a different story.

Once you get the Carolina Panthers out of your head and do a real comparison - you'll understand that you were incorrect in your opinion and should probably admit you were wrong. I won't hold my breath though.

That's the weird part. He'll go through the act of predicting what was said and asking other posters to tell him if he's wrong. He'll whine about others quoting "bullies" posts and actually have the gall to ask them not to quote... as if each post is poison and someone is pouring it down his throat. He even went so far as to say someone from here was texting him and telling him what was being posted in an effort to reinforce some meaningless "fact" that he doesn't read the posts.

Yet, somehow, he always know what everyone is posting.

Twilight Zone material for sure.

It's really simple. The guy is a fake. A bully. Constantly cries victim while doing all the things he says others do, but he instigates and does it more. Currently his new trend is exactly what u and Put highlighted - unable to keep other posters names out of his mouth, calling them liars and spreaders of misinformation.... Now covering a group claiming the love Baker more than the Browns. Oh and the new telling posters not to pay any attention to what others say football-wise because he knows more than anyone on the board. Some find a way to ignore all that, others find it so narcissistic and nauseating they comment on his consistent hypocrisy.

As for Brissett and Baker. Brissett played a very good game last night. Play calling actually helped too, when playing with a big lead instead of playing not to lose as KS has done forever, he called a couple big plays on 2nd and medium downs. The big 53 yard completion to Cooper a fine example.

Talking of Cooper, when we sign d him I said he's the best WR we've had since the return .... The self proclaimed football god disagreed. Said he was old and on a downward trend.i think we can all agree after watching his route running, catching, toe tapping and separating... Cooper is the best WR we've had since the return.

Vers, I was wrong about Brissett. He's only 3/4s as bad as I thought he was. But Baker, a healthy baker with WRs who didn't quit on the team, was much better. Stats are for losers. And it's painfully apparent he was not the issue. This team has deep disturbing issues top down.

I was also wrong about you. You're not really the fountain of football knowledge you pretend to be. I think you are very knowledgeable, but by not understanding the basics of being human, you choke on the intricacies of the human element in Football. And even though you do such a good job of dealing with those relationships here on the board, the NFL version of that is beyond your reach. Not your fault, but it detracts from anyone taking you seriously.

I disagree. Josh Gordon was by far the best WR we've had since the return, but... you know...

You got a great point.

He (JG) was the most talented WR I've seen in a Browns Uni. He was the most naturally gifted "footballer" I've ever seen in the flesh. I can remember being at games watching warm ups - and he literally jumped out at you - the way he moved, the ease with which he did literally anything. That'd be his 2013 season when he could have literally been anything he wanted. I imagine that watching someone like Von Miller or Aaron Donald warm up might be similar. Maybe JaMarr Chase looks as good?

The problem is he never applied himself and he had his own very fierce demons. I've always wished the guy well and wanted him to find a way to make his talent work, preferable as a Brown but wherever he went. But that clearly hasn't happened. Wherever he ends up I hope he finds peace because the way it looks is he may be the type of player we hear about in another 5 years and he's dead or incarcerated.

Josh Gordon could have been the best of all time.

Just on this one issue - I think after the injury and tensions wore on with Baker playing badly, and then the Pittsburgh game where KS called back to back to back plays with a 3rd string rookie RT one on one with TJ Watt (and the predictable result) . . . I think the bridge and relationship was broken. I thought it could be fixed but clearly not. I think Baker and his struggles with maturity were part of that problem and he doesn't get to skate away blame free.

Josh Gordon. You know, a lot of the same posters who make up the Fabulous Baker Boys were huge Gordon fans and resorted to personal attacks against those who questioned Gordon's commitment to the game and his dependability. I remember them making excuse after excuse for him and blaming everyone but Josh, himself. One guy wanted to start a campaign to fire Goodell......LOL. Man, they were brutal and they still are.

I don't remember that far back, but Josh Gordon is one of the best football players I've ever seen.

It's a shame he didn't have a better head on his shoulders. Could have been special.

Yep, 100 million dollar talent and 10 cent head.

I'd say this is a flat out lie and total distortion of what anyone said. Josh and his drug abuse was well documented. Some wished him well and wanted him to succeed, some wanted him cut and burnt for his transgressions. No-one said the problems weren't real and damn serious. Oh - and no-one blamed anyone but Josh for what Josh did ... that is probably the biggest lie in that post.

Josh DID get a further suspension for drinking while suspended but after the season was over, on a flight to vegas with Manziel and a Coach ... that has nothing to do with JG and his drug abuse problem. If that incident had some posters also blaming Johnny and the coach, it wasn't anything to do with absolving him from drug abuse and what he was suspended for.

Oh no... here comes the boogeyman.

I don't agree with the immaturity thing because it is more a matter of opinion than fact, period. But, I'm definitely not saying Baker had no fault in last season. For one, I think he should have bowed out and put himself on year-ending IR about 3 games after being injured. And he definitely should have after OBJ's stunt, if not before. Secondly, he played like crap down the stretch and wasn't smart enough to know his limits. This made him look horrible and sometimes much worse than the stats said. And this was used in the arguments against him playing here. But I also watched all the other aspects of the team, unlike OBJ defenders, who seemed to focus solely on Baker which led to the weekly growing chorus to replace him. And I saw lots of things wrong beyond Baker every game last year. Nobody seems to remember those, even though several have reared their heads this year already, especially Woods. But the baker hate kept building and those same fans who were singing his praises and planning their playoff game trips before the opener last year were openly hating on him. He went from a guy people were hoping to build a statue for to becoming a pariah and persona non grata during the offseason. And I don't give a damn what anybody says, the Browns treated bad, IMO very bad. The calls to replace baker were all but nonexistent before OBJ's daddy posted that crap.

So, no, I'm not saying he's blame-free. I'm saying that he was not the issue.

My strongest thoughts on all of the Baker drama are simple. Baker played very well for us at times and for games. He won a bunch of games, including the ever-so-rare playoff game! We all saw those games. So, tell me how a guy like that who at worse flashes top-5 frequently suddenly can't play and is a total bum without the whole situation being a COACHING ISSUE? I'm kind of stuck there.

To your last comment - I watched a couple of Baker games this year and he was truly very very bad. Worse than even his Freddie Kitchens year for the Browns and worse than when injured. But the entire Panther's also grossly under performed, see the change when Rhule was fired. It was instant. No idea if Baker will get another game this year - the talk on the radio here the moment Rhule was fired was about fire-sale and getting draft picks in order to attract a quality HC/GM .... AND a couple of radio hosts talked about how not starting Baker and preventing triggering the clause for a higher draft pick was an obvious no brainer. PJ Walker has played ok after a bad first game and he's been announced the starter ... if he continues to progress Baker probably won't see action unless it's thru injury.

Yeh, I've followed week to week. Not concerned at this point. We could right it off as another ruined Brown's QB on a long list of QB fails. But Baker played his part in it, too, so that's not fair; however much more likely it is than a guy suddenly not being able to play at a high level for no reason.

I thought you only want to talk football in this forum? Another lie.

Aside from the fact this post falls directly in line with the exact same issues he constantly bitches on this forum about - how special is it to have a person question Gordon's commitment to the game and his dependability after spending months laying out excuse after excuse for a guy like Watson who has to be the poster child for his questionable commitment to the game and his dependability after quitting on his team. You can't make this stuff up!

Yeah but......

baker...we messed up

Someone explain Stefanski's "offensive philosophy" to me. To my eyes, it appears to be "Ima try somethin'. Hold muh beer.".

Let's see if he can improve on his QBR and PFF rankings. He is 31st out of 31 ranked qbs in QBR and 37th out of 39th ranked qbs by PFF.

Meanwhile, Jacoby is 7th in QBR and 9th in PFF rankings.

Maybe for the first time ever everyone on this board will be hoping he does well regardless of the flag plant and his immaturity.

not likely.

yeah - what was I thinking !

Did anybody hear that Baker was headbutting his team mates
Without a helmet a couple weeks ago??
What a Flippin insecure attention getter.
Why does he have to constantly show his team Mates and
The media how much of a supposed "gamer" he is?
What's even more funny is how some on this board
Went on total meltdown after he traded....cough cough Eotab.

I missed that - and it's not smart. In fact it's positively dumb. But then so is your insistence on continuing to name drop Eotab in derogatory fashion. Dude is not well, fighting for his life and is very much loved and appreciated on this board.

Was your ex-stripper Baker??

No her name was Natina. She could cook and bake .
Really knew her way around a kitchen

Eotab is a good guy. We were mates back in the day
When their was online dial up and chat rooms.
We were on a 1st name basis.
But his endless crying about how the league had it out
For the Browns was a bit silly. It was difficult to discuss
Football with him cause to him every move the Browns
Made was great. Every draft pick was a hit. Every sportswriter
That was negative and honest about the Browns was a Bozo.
But yeah he is really good guy. Just don't talk Browns football
With him. Cause he knows more than you

Baker 6 wins last year at this time
Brissette 3 wins.

Performance wise, Brissett cannot post numbers better than an injured Mayfield contrary to what some would try to sell you on this forum. The stats don't lie.........

____QB______Comp_Att_Comp %__ yards_____TD_INT__ Rate____Sacks__Fumbles_W___L____T___PCT
Brissett_______185__290__63.8%___2074_____8___5___ 93.95___19_______ 5___ 3___ 6___ 0___ 0.333
Mayfield 2021__150__225__66.7%___1917_____8___3___104.76___24_______ 4___5____4___0___ 0.556 (injured in week 2)
Mayfield 2020__149__243__61.3%___1646____15___7___101.50___12_______ 1___ 6___3____0___0.667

On the one hand Baker is gone - so other than hoping he beats any team in the AFC North I don't see much value in continuing to talk about him. Personally I wish him well and because he is now in my local market I will keep half an eye on him, especially now Matt Rhule has been fired.

On the other hand I know it's not you that keeps trying to pile crap on BM - and it's others who have an agenda. So your posts are very welcome as they show a true comparison of what two different QB's have done on essentially the same team. It's fortunate for Vers that he has you on ignore - that way he avoids having to have a meaningful dialogue (as if that's what he actually wanted with this thread! LOL).

Baker is better than Brissett, but that isn't even the point. We didn't dump Baker for Brissett.
baker was never going to be here once Watson was added.

I don't think Baker is better than Brissett. Almost every meaningful measurable out there says that JB is better than BM. However, I respect your opinion and I do agree w/you that Watson is the key.

Baker would have been injured by week 4. So I’m good.

Brissett is not better than Baker, he's having a better year than Baker and that is more than evident simply by looking at how far above his history he's been playing, although he has been regressing to the mean lately.

Browns Baker vs Browns Brissett... Baker is definitely better and won more. BUT... throw all of that out and call it a wash if you want.
The biggest takeaway is that we sold all of our future assets to fix something that wasn't our biggest problem. The defense was last year, and is again this year, our biggest problem. Nothing has changed. If we had a defense in either year that could hold mediocre offenses under 30 pts - one off performances like Chicago last year or Cinci this year aside - we'd be winning with either one of the QBs.

We took the 80/20 Rule and sunk everything we had into the 20.

Exactly - not to mention now that this coming off season is filled with issues that need addressed. The cap rears its ugly face starting in 2023 so that will have to be addressed. The Browns best LB Walker, OT Conklin, true #2 WR, center, and 2 defensive tackles all must be addressed. The team will most likely lose Hunt, Greedy Williams, Clowney and Conklin due to cap issues so the team will take a definite step back at those positions. D'Ernest Johnson, Brissett, Pocic, Takitaki, Froholdt, Dunn, and Dobbs are all FA's certainly looking for a raise. The Browns have no 1st round draft pick and have serious questions the direction to go in the 2nd and 3rd rounds with so many needs.

According to PAUL KASABIAN of Bleacher Report

The Cleveland Browns' $37.9 million in cap space stands as the most in the NFL heading into the 2022 season.

That's twice as much as the figure for the next-closest team, the Las Vegas Raiders, who sport $16.1 million in cap space.

The Atlanta Falcons bring up the rear with $1.5 million in cap space.

The Browns may have the most cap space now, but they have work to do to get under the 2023 mark. Per Over the Cap, Cleveland is currently $26.4 million over the cap, including a $55 million figure for quarterback Deshaun Watson alone. The Raiders are in good shape in 2023 with $32.7 million in cap space.

Anyone, show me the one post from this board, like the one above, about cap space, in 25 years
that ever showed the Browns had anything other than the most cap space
because they've always had the most cap space.

Be it 20II, Brownz mozt cap zpace.
Be it 2003, or 2007 or 20I9, every year,
I never remember reading the Brownz ever had something other than the very mozt cap zpace, mozt in the NFL.

Tuck this one in your hiding place because they won't have the most going forward from here on out.

I didn't start the post but the stats through 10 weeks clearly shows that the above statement is totally wrong by anyone's standards. The original post had nothing to do with Watson, it was a direct comparison of Brissett and Mayfield. The only difference would be he tried to use this year's stats from different teams as a comparison rather than the stats from being a Browns QB. I believe the actual measurables tell a different story. Just the facts........

Results through 10 games:

__QB_________Comp____Att___Comp %____yards______ TD____INT____ Rate_____ Sacks____Fumbles___W___L___T____PCT
Brissett________213____331____64.4%_____2398______11_____5_____96.72______20________6______3____7___0___.300
Mayfield 2021___161____246____65.4%_____1990_______9_____4____102.26______26________5______5____5___0___.500__(injured in week 2)
Mayfield 2020___161____265____60.8%_____1850______15_____7____100.23______15________3______7____3___0___.700

What's the point of the "thru 10 weeks" comparison? After ten weeks, with the season on the line, Mayfield threw 8TD and 9INT. We're not comparing two QB's performance within the same season, seems like it would make more sense to look at Mayfield's entire season in 2021...

__QB_________Comp____Att___Comp %____yards______ TD____INT____ Rate_____ Sacks____Fumbles___W___L___T____PCT
Brissett________213____331____64.4%_____2398______11_____5_____96.72______20________6______3____7___0___.300
Mayfield 2021___253____418____60.5%_____3010______17____13_____83.10______43________6______6____8___0___.429

The biggest question at this point is what the hell difference does it make? The Browns are 3-7. If that's some sign that "The Browns are better with Brissett" that's a pretty sad commentary.

I guess folks don't want this thread to die. Fine w/me.

Baker was named the starter this Sunday because the legendary PJ Walker was injured. He was 21 of 33 for 196 yards. 0 TDs. 2 Interceptions. 4 Sacks.

For the year:

QBR:

Jacoby: 62.4, which is 6th best in the NFL. Baker: 17.8, which is last out of 31 ranked QBs.

TDs:

Jacoby w/11. Baker w/6. [Note: JB has played in 3.5 more games than Baker.]

Interceptions:

JB w/5. Baker w/6. [Note: JB has played in 3.5 more games than Baker.]

Sacks:

Jacoby w/20. Baker w/19. [Note: JB has played in 3.5 more games than Baker.]

Jacoby also leads Baker in Yards per game and Completion percentage. Pretty much leads Baker in all stats except for Headbutts Without a Helmet.

Tell us how much better the team is doing this year? If the problem were resolved why is the record worse than this time last year? Obviously the Browns "aren't better with Brissett". Because one must look at the way the thread topic was worded. The question posed actually doesn't ask which QB is better. It asks if the team is better. Here's a news flash for you. It isn't.

After 10 games last season we were 5-5. Please explain how 3-7 is better.

I read the PostGame thread and a poster was talking about Baker winning a Super Bowl before the Browns do. I guess it could happen, but it's probably more likely that Baker won't even be in the league in a year or two. He's the worst starting qb in the league by far. Last year and all off season, we read posters like steve and WSU continually blame Stefanski, the supporting cast, and Baker's injury for his poor play. Fact is that he is playing worse this year and his fan boys still can't admit it.

Yet after ten games this season we had a better record last season. But since your claim seems to be "The Browns are better with Brissett" the record obviously points in a different direction. Of course that doesn't really matter to you because you know, you have stats and stuff. Once again the context of the actual thread title seems to be escaping you.

And just think, it was only a few minutes ago you posted in another thread that you only wanted to talk football. Nobody actually believes your BS anymore.

Your ability to lie while making yourself out to be some kind of victim is comical.

The 4th rounder probably isn't in the cards. I have a feeling Darnold takes over at some point. Maybe next week. There is this:


Panthers interim HC Steve Wilks: Too early to name Week 12 starting QB
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Anthony Rizzuti follow
November 20, 2022 4:45 pm ET

The quarterback carousel for the Carolina Panthers is up and running.

With PJ Walker down after sustaining a high-ankle sprain in last week’s win over the Atlanta Falcons, the team turned to Baker Mayfield under center on Sunday. And, uh, the results were less than optimal.


Mayfield, in his sixth start of the season, completed 21 of his 33 throws for 196 yards and a pair of interceptions in a 13-3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens. As was the case in his five prior nods, the former No. 1 overall pick had difficulty pushing the ball downfield—leading the offense to yet another listless performance.

Following the defeat, interim head coach Steve Wilks was asked if he thought of turning to Sam Darnold at any point in the game. He did not.

“No, not at this particular time,” Wilks said. “Because I felt like, at the flow of the game, it would’ve been a disadvantage to him in trying to throw him in that type of situation and try to go down and win a game for us.”

Wilks was then asked by Joseph Person of The Athletic if Darnold could get the start next week against the Denver Broncos. But obviously, 20 minutes after the game isn’t the best time to get an answer on that.

“It’s too early to say, Joe,” he replied. “We gotta evaluate the tape and then from there, I’ll make a decision.”

Earlier in the week, Wilks told reporters that he plans on getting Darnold in-game reps before the campaign is over. So with Mayfield struggling once again and Walker on the mend, Week 12 may be Sam’s time.

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2...ilks-baker-mayfield-sam-darnold-week-11/

If Brisset was on the Panthers they wouldn't be any better than they are now.

Also, it's sad how far Baker has fallen in a short amount of time. He had a very promising start to his career.

Come on Vers - answer the damn questions. You started the thread and this whole forum had to read your BS post after post about how much better the Browns would be with Brissett as QB over what Baker did his 2-years with Stefanski. I've been posting the week-by-week comparison and through 10-weeks, an injured QB in Mayfield outperformed your guy. Bakers gone and, in a situation, almost exactly like when he was drafted by the Browns - a $hit team with [censored] coaches and FO. That's neither here nor there as far as what you continue to state and that my friend is being proved with each passing week that you were grossly wrong in your opinion. You can post all the crap you want to about Mayfield's struggles in Carolina because no one here really gives a damn. In case you didn't know, Mayfield isn't here anymore and obviously the Browns current record shows that he's absent. You have nothing to explain why the Browns suck so let's revert to something you know - a 5-year documented hatred of Mayfield. As WSU stated, "Your ability to lie while making yourself out to be some kind of victim is comical."

j/c:


Brissett, obviously. Compared 1:1 this year but also the mere fact one is a backup and one is/was an expected starter turned backup/possibly out of the league adds a certain level of comedy to the topic.

Our record has wildly more to do with the defensive performance than Brissett's play. Brissett is nothing special and, although his numbers and efficiency are good and has kept us in games, it hasn't elevated our offense to a point where he can win us games. That said, it's better with Brissett than it is Mayfield.

That aside, Brissett is probably having the best year of his career (2019 is up there in comparable numbers but we won't see a full season from him) and unless he stays here as a backup, which would be nice, is probably going to start for a team as a bridge to a rookie QB and get PAID. Who should be responsible for this? Brissett? Van Pelt? Stefanski/play calling? This year has been an outlier so far for Brissett and I wish I knew exactly why.

Living in the charlotte area I can tell you that they have spent entire segments of talk shows on how the Panthers cannot - no matter what - use Baker enough to give up the 4th round pick. It doesn't matter if he's better than, worse than, the same as the next QB in line, they will not use him enough to trigger the 4th round pick. If Darnold and Walker both got injured - they would sign someone and start him rather than give up a 4th round pick.

Hatred or not, it is pretty clear that brissett is playing better than baker. Comparing records of this team between this year and last isn't germane.

If Baker was as good as you and others think, he would be the Panthers starter. Bake got it out of camp, lost the job, got a recent start, and looke to be losing it again.

Bake had a good start with us, got the big head, and now in Carolina he is again being exposed as a poser.

Give it up.

Read 888's post. I happen to live in Charlotte too and what he says is 100% correct. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. In addition, I've posted the numbers from Mayfield in 2021 and 2020 to compare to Brissett also. You are wrong on that opinion also, not that it matters. The Browns are still 3-7 with Brissett no matter how much you want to blame the defense or belly ache about Mayfield. Mayfield's numbers through 10-games are better than Brissett's yet last year you blamed it all on Mayfield. This year it can't be the QB's fault it's the defense. Reality - it's the HC but that's a different forum post.

Last year Baker was awful. It's not debatable so why is it still being debated?

He's a bad QB that you can't win with.

Lolz.

Think what you want. I wouldn't want to trigger anything that turns in to a 4th round pick for that guy.

That would be pretty stupid.

No one is questioning that Mayfield had a bad year last year playing injured. No one is debating the upgrade of Watson at the position on paper - as the face of the franchise and being a sexual predator - then yes. What is being debated is that a certain self-appointed football guru blasted this forum with post after post about even with Watson suspended the Browns would be better more competitive team because Brisset would be a better QB on the Browns than Mayfield. The stats clearly show that through 10-weeks compared to last year that opinion is clearly wrong. That an injured QB being replaced by a 2-year previous starter has not shown an improved team. The team is not doing better than when Mayfield was here and the 3-7 record verifies that point. People have the option of hating on Baker - you don't have the option of trying to sell a bill of goods that's not accurate.

Go back to the very first post in this thread. I quoted a short exchange between steve and I. I had said that I thought that Jacoby would throw fewer picks and take fewer needless sacks than Baker. steve called me a liar. It's right there in quotes. There were numerous posts by the Fabulous Baker Boys that said virtually the same crap. I promised then that I would keep track of their numbers this year.

Btw.......I never once said Brissett was a better qb than Baker before the season. It's another lie. I said the things about picks and sacks. I also said he would be more mature and professional. They still can't admit they are wrong and continue to lie about what was said. Screw them!

I will end w/saying that at this point, it is inarguable that Jacoby is a better qb than Baker. I didn't say that before the season, but it's very obvious now.

Sounds like you have an ego issue.

Here is the important parts of the first post in this thread. I am the first speaker. steve is the second speaker, the one who called me a liar for voicing an opinion. An opinion about sacks and interceptions and not who was the better overall qb. I actually started posting the Baker/Brissett numbers on the Expectations for Jacoby thread once the season started. I started this thread after the other was locked due to length.



I said this as part of a post where I was talking about my expectations for Jacoby and the Browns.



There was some back and forth where I was called a liar. I responded that opinions are not lies. That led to this:



At that point in time, I decided to keep track of both qbs for as long as both were playing this year.

Mayfield's injury had nothing to do with him playing bad. He played bad because he's a bad QB.

The team should be doing better with Brissett but I'm not sure anyone saw the utter incompetence of Stefanski coming on the way it did. He's still regressing to his mean. The thing is I don't know where his mean is. I'm guessing it's at 3-14. Sub .500 coach. No other coach since the Browns came back has done less with more. When you think about it from that perspective he might be the worst coach the Browns have had since the return. If we are being fair he's had an infinitely more talented roster than Chud, Shurmur, Petine, Hubris, all of them. He's simply awful. I can't stand to look or listen to the guy anymore. His presser today was an absolute joke. He's a loser. Man, I hope Haslam does the right thing and gets rid of him. Nothing will be more frustrating than being 4-5 next year after 9 games with Watson and then realizing you should have made a change and wasted another year of talented players careers.

Look at Stefanski's record since the Browns were 3-1 last year. Look at Stefanski's record against winning teams. He is just plain bad. He's an absolute joke.

Are there any QBs in the NFL playing with an injury to their non-throwing shoulder while wearing a shoulder brace..?

Has it taken you this long to figure out?

PFF grades are out. They align closely w/the QBR rankings.

Jacoby is 8th overall w/a 81.7 grade.

Baker is 37th out of 39 ranked qbs, w/a grade of 52.2.

Gee, not having the injured shoulder and getting away from the horrible Stefanski and his supporting cast certainly has ignited the greatness of Baker Mayfield.

Free your heart from the hatred, you will feel better.

Good thing he doesn't have OBJ running the wrong routes anymore.

Who? Brissett or Baker?

Maybe he has another injury and he's not disclosing it!!! I know. He hurt himself headbutting his teammates without a helmet!! Yea that's it!!!

I'll tell you what people need to give up. That is pretending that the topic title is, "Is Brissett Playing Better Than Baker?" Because that wasn't the question title of the topic. The question of the topic is "Browns Better w/Brissett or Baker?"

Anyone who actually believes the product and results they are seeing on the field this year are somehow better than what they saw last year are only fooling themselves.

Because people keep pretending that is the question of the topic when it never was to begin with.

The Browns aren't any better this year than they were last year. That is the question.

Jacoby has a much better TD to INT ratio that's
Light years better than Mayfields
Mayfield is a turnover machine but his fanclub
Could never accept that

So is "the team better" this year? It seems people are having a problem focusing on the actual question at hand.

Last place
3 wins
Sense your into loser statistics
When will Deshaun or Brissette put up 50 on Pittsburgh in the playoffs
Silence is golden
Stefanski 3 wins sense Mayfield left.
Defense dropped to 31sense we spent 60 million on the lowest rated QB earning over 10 million

Except through 10 weeks of games:

Brissett 10 games, 11 TD's, 5 INTs - 20 sacks - 6 fumbles -QBR 96.7, record 3-7

Mayfield 2021 9 games (missed one), 9 TD's, 4 INTs - 26 sacks - 5 fumbles - QBR 102.0 - record 5-5

Comparing apples to apples, I humbly point out that you are wrong.

Sense there is not 1way we win 9 games with the leshaun led Browns I suggest we trade
3number 1s just so we can average 10 wins a year.

Of COURSE the team is better. Duh !! Baker was the only thing holding them back.

Well lets see:

- Better record against weaker opposition - Opps.
- Better stats by JB versus injured BM thru 10 games - Opps
- Better locker room and team functionality because BM was such a cancer - Opps
- Headed to the play offs for SURE! - Opps

Sure I am being facetious. Truth is Brissett has played more than well enough as a stand in for Watson. But the whole hatred of Baker that spawned this thread and the 1000's of posts by Vers after he LEFT THE BOARD because he couldn't stand Baker .... that's a different story. Baker was and is playing for one of the worst teams in the NFL. They fired their coach who was on a 1-11 run of games. The original poster wants to try to compare Baker's stats playing for the worst team in the NFL for a team that fired their coach already - to the Browns who were supposed to be deep play off run hopefuls. Sure seems balanced huh?

The Fabulous Baker Boys continually talk about "hatred" and then go to other threads and hate on Stefanski, Woods, Berry, etc, etc. Pftttt........

More Baker news that his crew will twist and turn.

888 or steve will soon say Baker isn't playing due to the 4th round draft choice. LOL. I posted something last week that said Baker had almost no chance of ever reaching that percentage after the games he missed. Baker lost his job to the legendary PJ Walker. He's the worst starting qb in the league and the team is so desperate they are turning to Sam Freaking Darnold. Here is an article on the subject.


Panthers name Sam Darnold starter vs. Broncos
4:33 PM ET
David Newton
ESPN Staff Writer

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- In the revolving door known as the Carolina Panthers quarterback position, Sam Darnold will become the team's third different starter in as many weeks Sunday against the Denver Broncos at Bank of America Stadium.

The team made the announcement Tuesday after interim coach Steve Wilks told his quarterbacks he will go with Darnold instead of Baker Mayfield, who had two passes intercepted and failed to get the Panthers (3-8) into the end zone in Sunday's 13-3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens.



It will be Darnold's first start in a regular-season game since a Jan. 9 loss to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers to end the 2021 season.

Wilks made the decision after evaluating Mayfield's performance against Baltimore and finding out that PJ Walker would not be ready to return Sunday from a high ankle sprain.

Mayfield began the season as the starter after winning the job in training camp during an open competition with Darnold. Sunday was his first start since Week 5, when he suffered a high ankle sprain in a loss to the San Francisco 49ers. He replaced Walker, who was 2-3 before suffering his own sprain in a Week 10 win against the Atlanta Falcons.

Mayfield had a Total Quarterback Rating of 20.4 against the Ravens, giving him an NFL-worst 17.8 rating among qualified players. His 57.8 completion percentage ranks next to last.

Darnold was 4-7 as the starter last season and had a Total QBR of 38.6 that ranked ahead of only those of Zach Wilson (33.4) of the New York Jets and Justin Fields (31.4) of the Chicago Bears.

Mayfield was the first pick of the 2018 draft and Darnold the third. The Cleveland Browns traded Mayfield to Carolina in July after dealing for Deshaun Watson earlier in the offseason. After selecting Wilson with the second overall pick of the 2021 draft, the Jets traded Darnold to the Panthers.

Wilks has said several times that the Panthers want to get a look at Darnold, who, like Mayfield, is in the last year of his rookie contract.


The decision to go with Darnold over Mayfield also impacts what the Panthers owe from their trade with Cleveland. Mayfield currently has played 58% of the snaps and would need to play 70% for the Browns to get a fourth-round pick in 2024. If he doesn't reach that threshold, that pick becomes a fifth-rounder.

The Panthers, who if the season ended today would have the No. 2 pick in the 2023 draft, are expected to select a quarterback in the first round next year in a QB strong class. They would consider a veteran such as Darnold to help bring that player along.

Darnold recently said he learned a lot being the backup while recovering from a high ankle sprain that landed him on injured reserve to start the season.

"You learn a lot just by watching," he said. "There's a lot to learn in terms of walking around the building, learning from other guys. There's a lot you can learn when you don't have the stress of being a starter. But at the end of the day, I want to be out there."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35086481/panthers-name-sam-darnold-starter-vs-broncos

What did Baker ever do to you to make you hate him so much?

For the record, I did not write the tweet or the article. I did not compose the stats that verify that Baker is the worst starting qb in the league. I am posting these stories and FACTS because of all the lies and personal attacks from his fan base that continues to this day. All it would have took was for those guys to say, "Damn, we were wrong," and all of this would have ended. More articles, tweets, stats, etc will be forthcoming if the Fabulous Baker Boys continue to make personal attacks.

Try Baker's 1st 10 games of this year
6 TDs 6 INTs. 1313 yds 71 QB rating

Steve Smith just called Baker a 3 legged donkey
That's very funny

So? So what? Those coaches suck right now and that's what true fans do. Just because we won't walk lock step with your thought process on how we should act doesn't mean crap. And you don't need to keep pounding on Baker, fake fans like you and a not good HC already settled that bit.

He probably has you on ignore, so when he reads this, which he will, he'll respond to himself. Does it all the time.

Sense there is not 1way we win 9 games with the leshaun led Browns I suggest we trade
3number 1s just so we can average 10 wins a year.

Its since, not sense.

JB has not been the main problem, if we can discount his ill-timed INTs in a couple places . The main problem, all year, has been the defence. Suck-fest, really.

Baker has sucked more than Brissett. Next year it probably won’t matter , one effing bit.

JB is playing better than Baker, he can't be the problem. None of the QBs is a problem on the field until they are. JB is not there yet, he's still battling.

Baker took the title of the winningest @uarterback in the Browns stadium history, took that mark from the villain what'z hiz name?
steelerz dumb @b? oh yeah, Roelissburger, (Ben).

so Baker brought the fact of winningezt @b in Browns stadium, Clevleand Browns stadium, from some dumb donkey steeler back to a Cleveland Browns player, and so back to the team.

...
I thought you meant what'd he ever do to make you LIKE him so much. (aw no I didn't but you know, had to, had to bring the positive.)

I'm still sore the team decided to ac@uire D. Watson and not bring back Baker.

I don't know when or If I'll feel like rooting for D. Watzon in the future.
but today , in my mind, he' still represents a big pile of negativity, that haz me watching, ( if I watch) Jacoby- losing season Brisset
for the last bunch of monthz,
while.. they got rid of the only @B I believed in, Baker, for ...
a guy who still has the stigma of another teams uniform imo, and... heck, the ravenz wear a different uniform
am I supposed to root for lamar jackzon? huh? the NFL has gone nutz and I have no team to root for
not real happy about it, the whole thing, became a flipping joke.

No, it’s not. However, the offense is playing better. That is the side of the ball that doesn’t seem to be an issue this year.

Broad brush it any way you want. If we get specific to the question, Brissett is playing better than Baker did last year and even more specific, playing better this year. You have to remember, I was a Baker guy, but the facts are the facts.

Last year the O was the problem. This year it isn't.

To clarify. I have stated the reasons I started this thread. I even provided direct quotes from myself and steve. Pit does not get to decide why I started the thread. I do. And I made it clear. The personal attacks and lies never stopped and they are still at it today. Thus, I'm gonna shove the Baker news down their freaking throats.

More "inaccuracies" and agenda from Vers - on a number of fronts:

- The most obvious is talking about ignoring posters and then somehow miraculously mentioning the talking points those posters raise.

- Trying to flip this as if posters are hating on Stefanski because we criticize the current HC of the Browns. We didn't leave the board because we can't stand Stefanski and only come back on the news he was leaving. We didn't spam the boards after KS left to try and make him look bad.

- Vers claims the Panthers decision to not start him has nothing to do with a 4th round pick [1] ignoring two Charlotte posters who have heard endlessly on the radio here that it is most definitely a huge factor [2] Then stating as fact that the Panthers can't trigger the 4th round clause because of the games Baker has missed. Which is also wrong:L

- The math: Through 11 games: Baker has played 58% of he snaps through 11 games (Vers quoted that). If he plays 100% of the remaining snaps and assuming a similar number of snaps per game - at the end of the season he would have played 72.8% of the snaps and the Panthers would owe the Browns a 4th rounder. So - just one more 'FACT' that was agenda driven and not accurate. Of course - Vers likes to call those LIES ... but when he is inaccurate and posters call him out in return he's suddenly a victim.

It's tempting to talk about the god awful team the Panthers are and how a comparison between what was a play off caliber roster (Browns) and one of the worst 3 teams in the NFL who fired their coach before the half way point of the season is asinine. But there's no point. Baker has played badly for the Panthers - worse than when he was under Freddie or when injured. Who knows what happens. It doesn't matter - only to one hate filled individual. Anyone paying attention knows this to be true. End of.

More news on Baker's benching. from the Charlotte Observer. I am including relevant parts that dispute some of the things others are claiming. You can read the full article here:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article269108812.html

Excellent
Relax my friend

JayQuellen needs to go to the principal’s office.
As does AA Ron!!

Ya done messed up Ay Ay Ron!

This whole class is gonna feel my wrath!!

Insubordinate… and cherldish.

There is no "broad brush" here. The title of the thread is are the Browns better with Brissett or Baker? There was nothing in that which pertained to the O or the D or ST's.

I think it would be very difficult for anyone to argue that Brissett hasn't outperformed Baker this season. I think it would be hard for anyone to argue that if the question was which of those two was playing better this year the answer is pretty clear cut.

But that was never the question to begin with. But looking at it from a team perspective, which is exactly the way the question was worded, the Browns are no better this year than last year.

What you don't get to do is control how I or anyone else responds to the thread. And as many have seen and told you, just because you tell us why you posted a thread doesn't always match up to what you post on it. I have learned to listen to nothing you say but rather watch what you do. That tells the story.

Another personality post? I won't trade insults, but there is this. We can keep this going as long as y'all like.


Steve Smith Sr. calls Panthers QB Baker Mayfield a 'three-legged donkey'
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Anthony Rizzuti follow
November 22, 2022 2:35 pm ET


It seems as though Steve Smith Sr. has stopped beating the drum for Baker Mayfield and has moved on to beating a dead horse (or donkey).

During his call-in segment for The Clubhouse with Kyle Bailey on Monday, the Carolina Panthers legend had some not-so-complimentary words for the current Carolina Panthers quarterback. When going over Mayfield’s performance from the Week 11 loss to the Baltimore Ravens, one in which the offense mustered up all of three points, Smith Sr. put on his cape . . . but not to save the struggling passer.



“Well, I don’t wanna be Captain Petty, but there were times—where I had the All-22 and I looked back—and he’s looking at one side of the field,” Smith Sr. said. “And there is Shi Smith running an under route, a zone route, a flare—and whether Z, Y, X, drive—and he’s looking to the right and never looks at the next progression. So there were a few times where he did not throw the football.”

When he did throw the football, Mayfield connected on 21 of his 33 attempts for 196 and two interceptions. As a whole, Carolina amassed just 205 total yards of offense and converted on just three of their 12 third-down tries.

Smith Sr. went on:

“Listen, this three-legged donkey that’s playing quarterback, it’s tough. Let me tell you, it’s tough to watch. Especially when the other team got a four-legged barrel bred.”

Oh, and there’s more:

“It is no possible way any team that’s looking for a foundational quarterback should sign Baker Mayfield,” he added of the soon-to-be free agent.

Well, unless the Panthers put him back in the stable, we’ll see if Mayfield gets a chance to kick back on these criticisms before the year is over.

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/2...s-qb-baker-mayfield-three-legged-donkey/

Nobody reads this stuff but you lol.

Also of note... Baker didn't tip well at a local restaurant last week.

Baker has an ego there despite trying to show his "nice" guy persona on TV commercials.

Then you should expect the same on every detail of minutia that comes up on Captain McRapey. Not from me, and I'm just saying.

J/C I hope Jacoby Gets a great ovation tomorrow. He’s been a warrior for us.

I think he’ll get a chance next year to be a bridge type QB again

So interesting yet a typical move to derail this forum and the actual issue that the lowly Panthers have the exact same number of wins as the Browns do heading into week 12 of 18. Currently tied for the second fewest wins on the season in the NFL and we have a spirited Forum Topic about a QB that is no longer on the team though we (the Browns) are paying the majority of his salary. I personally don't care if Mayfield is the top ranked or last ranked QB currently in the league. What I do care about is the Browns and we have fans more focused on the player gone than our own team sporting the second worst win total (tied) in the league and trying to sell it to the forum as we are better than last year because Mayfield is gone. Huh Hmmm, our Browns record seems to verify that claim is a false narrative, like it or not. This is a-typical when there's no excuse for the activity - losing, you change the subject and find another excuse avenue to veer from the truth which is the Browns are a bad team with a very poor head coach that has squandered more individual talent on this current team than the last 5 Browns coaches before him combined. But hey, let's make it about Baker.

Hopefully, we won't need a bridge QB for at least five years.

I’m hoping longer than that lol

The teams hasn't been introducing individual players for several games now. They just introduce the team.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if J. Brisset had to start eleven games for the Browns in 2023, as well as 2022, it's almost 2023, only a few weekz until new yearz.
and it would be zo eazy to spin the talking to that he WONT loze 2 out of 3, or 75% of hiz ztartz because, he'll be in hiz 2nd year with the team, but.
It'z pretty much known how often J. Brizzet winz vz. lozzez in NFL ztartz.

Why would we have any expectationz for DeHaun Watzon, hiz contract money iz already guaranteed.

I assumed he meant after the game when players walk to the tunnel......giving him an ovation and thanking him for playing hard in a tough spot.

I didn't know what he meant. The team used to intro the starting units by player. They stopped some games ago. I assumed it was to avoid some of the members of the board booing Watson his first game in Cleveland.

They can't hear us from our couch or the sports bar. They'll get enough bad press anyway.

j/c,

You guys still think that there is a debate here? Jacoby is hands down the better QB
.

That wasn't the question. Context is everything. The Browns aren't any better. Just look at the record.

I just meant in general. Maybe when he first takes the field tomorrow

Here's the thing: We're all thinking this will be his last time playing for the Browns. DW starts the next week, with his 5 yr. guarantee. DW could be hurt on his first play, or in his second start, or whatever.

There hasn't even been a debate here, Baker is hands down the better QB and always has been.

They are too insecure to admit they were wrong.

Nice Steve excellent post
First of all
It is Mayfield plus
Williams wr Detroit on a rookie contract
Ojabo on a rookie contract
Grady Jarrett was available so we could have traded for him.
Plus with Clowney contract off the books this ensures that salary
Cap surplus would be 60 plus million.
Plus I would have 4 high draft picks.
Part 2 of argument we only win 3 games
I sign Cousins
Draft this year
Will Anderson
Michael Mayer tight end Notre dame
Round 3 jack Campbell Iowa linebacker
3 b (Mayfield comp)
Kelee Ringo db Georgia
Argument will be happy to play Jacoby Brissett
It is one of worst arguments to argue against this team.

It will be interesting this off season to see which of Brissett or Mayfield gets the most interest.

Baker has more talent, but Jacoby has a better mindset and leadership skills. Talent usually wins out.

Just a general question for anybody who knows. Carolina isn't going to trigger anything to put Bakers trade into a higher comp pick. So, is the trade for Baker over or will we still get something no matter how much Baker plays down the stretch?

I just looked...it will be a 5th rounder.

I just saw this where Baker throws shade at the Browns.

Bake is a funny guy.

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2022/11/24/baker-mayfield-disowns-browns/

Nice Steve excellent post
First of all
It is Mayfield plus
Williams wr Detroit on a rookie contract
Ojabo on a rookie contract
Grady Jarrett was available so we could have traded for him.
Plus with Clowney contract off the books this ensures that salary
Cap surplus would be 60 plus million.
Plus I would have 4 high draft picks.
Part 2 of argument we only win 3 games
I sign Cousins
Draft this year
Will Anderson
Michael Mayer tight end Notre dame
Round 3 jack Campbell Iowa linebacker
3 b (Mayfield comp)
Kelee Ringo db Georgia
Argument will be happy to play Jacoby Brissett
It is one of worst arguments to argue against this team.

He's a turd.

And so are you. But you're still here.

3-7 Browns without the turd - 8-9 with the injured turd

OMG, Brissett and Watson in trouble with 2 injured OL going forward - injured turd plays 10 games w/o starting RT, 4.5 games w/o starting LT, 1 game w/o starting C - no excuse for inured QB's play

Chubb and Hunt are playing spectacular in 2022 with a 3-7 record - 2021, Chubb misses 4 games and Hunt misses 9 games, all Mayfield's fault the Browns are losing

Opinion, Mayfield's a turd - rebuttal:

Told you the excuses would be flying all over the place for poor play this year that he wouldn't think of allowing to be used last year -

I really think it is the waterboys fault he was not coached right.

Um, no. He isn’t. The question itself is worthless. Baker was inconsistent. He showed several flashes followed by ineptitude. Was there a coaching issue? Yes. Does that remove responsibility from Baker? No. If Baker were here this year my guess is that he would not have the team better than their current record. Which is ultimately irrelevant.

On the flip side, Brissett is a career back-up. This year because of circumstances (which I’d think was stupidity on the part of management) he has been asked to do more than he has in his career. Has he played badly? No. Has he played great? No.

Bottom line for me is a few things. Baker should not have played the majority of last year. That is on Stefanski. I think that the FO had moved on from Baker even before last year and they used last year as cover. Baker has not shown much since going to Carolina. Brissett is as advertised, a back-up pressed into extended duty. The team as a whole has not played well enough to win which is a [censored] phrase. A team either wins or it doesn’t. They have lost, period. Imo, they believed their press clippings as though nothing else would change in the league from last year to this year.

Baker isn’t here anymore and no one gets to know what would have happened.

On a related note, I think Baker will have a long career in the NFL. It will be bouncing around various teams and being a back-up on multiple occasions. He and Sam Darnold will end up being two sides of the same coin.

The Browns are no better with Brissett than they were with Baker. This much is written-in-stone fact; anything else in any other context is, at best, extrapolation and conjecture.

I’d be shocked if Brissett doesn’t garner interest from a team like Houston, NY Jets, Detroit, etc (a team who might draft a QB but needs a dude to step in for a while)

Somebody, please, take this thread off life support.