If this doesn't solidify it, Stefanski is one of the worst head coaches in the league. This was the product after a bye week.
This summarizes Stefanski as a head coach. The Browns had a 3rd and 1 in the first half and were trailing. The Dolphins were selling out to stop the run. I mean they were not concerned about the pass at all. Stefanksi puts Brissett in the shotgun with Hunt next to him. The entire world, including the Dolphins, knew it was going to Hunt. Tackled for two yard loss. Stefanski now goes for it on 4th and 3. A much harder proposition. So you start a 3rd and 1 three yards behind the line of scrimmage instead of just sneaking Brissett.
That's your head coach folks.
The most important decision the Haslams will make as the owners is coming up. Do you trust Stefanski with Watson? If you have any doubt you have to move on. If this goes bad next year then you are starting over with Watson and a brand new offense the following season.
It's amazing how bad Stefanski is.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
My favorite Stefanski post game presser was from a few weeks ago. After yet another loss, he looks shell shocked and laments how disappointed he is for the players after how hard they worked during the week. LOL ... that's something a loser says. All teams work hard. That was the nail in the coffin for me. For some it will be today's game. And yet for others they will still think he's a good coach after today.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
You can't run 2 backs at the same time in this Era. For one, none of those backs can play FB. Number 2...the misdirection play to the RB is all but extinct Number 3, the Browns don't run a single wing or wishbone Backfield
If this doesn't solidify it, Stefanski is one of the worst head coaches in the league. This was the product after a bye week.
This summarizes Stefanski as a head coach. The Browns had a 3rd and 1 in the first half and were trailing. The Dolphins were selling out to stop the run. I mean they were not concerned about the pass at all. Stefanksi puts Brissett in the shotgun with Hunt next to him. The entire world, including the Dolphins, knew it was going to Hunt. Tackled for two yard loss. Stefanski now goes for it on 4th and 3. A much harder proposition. So you start a 3rd and 1 three yards behind the line of scrimmage instead of just sneaking Brissett.
That's your head coach folks.
The most important decision the Haslams will make as the owners is coming up. Do you trust Stefanski with Watson? If you have any doubt you have to move on. If this goes bad next year then you are starting over with Watson and a brand new offense the following season.
It's amazing how bad Stefanski is.
Apart from bad decision making then his biggest flaw the poor leadership. As soon as things go south then the team is falling apart and then you know what’s missing.
The team has no leadership, either from the coaching staff or the players.
Some of the players like Brissett provide leadership, but they need it from their best players. Outside of Chubb and Bitonio, who are quiet leaders, they are really devoid of leadership.
I keep being told by fellow Browns fans and the NFL universe how awesome Garrett is. He was a first overall pick. He's made the playoffs once in 6 years and caused one of the most boneheaded plays in NLF history.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
- The Browns had two weeks to prepare for this game and that is the performance they put on the field. Completely embarrassing.
- The losing culture has not gone away.
- Saw a team that looked disinterested.
- Defense has a bunch of overpaid guys that do not make plays. Defense needs to replace a lot of players and the Browns do not have any 1st round picks to do so.
- Watson will not fix what is wrong with this team.
- The Browns got manhandled in the trenches today.
- Pharaoh Brown had more targets than Amari Cooper.
- Gameball to Anthony Schwartz for catching the football.
I'll also add that we never had as much talent as we did under Dorsey. He truly prioritized winning and made moves to put the Browns in the best position to succeed. But he didn't get along with Depo, which I believe lead to the hiring of Kitchens. It was an anti-Depo move who was opposed to the hire and wanted Stefanski instead.
Where I'm going with this is Depo might be the biggest issue with the franchise. Not because of analytics. But they may just listen to him too much. If Depo wasn't here, we'd still have Dorsey who would understand simple things like defensive tackles are important.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
If a team was playoff caliber on both sides of the ball and lost their QB then we could possibly expect them to be .500 or slightly better with a competent backup. In essence this is what we were led to believe. Brissett would be a competent placeholder until Watson. Now, I don’t fault Brissett but I do fault the FO and the coaches. The only thing I can see is that the coaches are not good and/or the players in the aggregate are not good which is on the FO.
Where's all the Homer's that predicted the Browns being a playoff Team thus year?
No one really predicted that. The issue now is do we have a good head coach and coaching staff.
There is losing, then there is losing like the Browns lost today. That's poor coaching. That's disinterest from the players. That's uninspiring play. That's what they think of their head coach.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
If a team was playoff caliber on both sides of the ball and lost their QB then we could possibly expect them to be .500 or slightly better with a competent backup. In essence this is what we were led to believe. Brissett would be a competent placeholder until Watson. Now, I don’t fault Brissett but I do fault the FO and the coaches. The only thing I can see is that the coaches are not good and/or the players in the aggregate are not good which is on the FO.
Stefanski is clearly in over his head. That is bordering on undebatable at this point.
Berry didn't do him too many favors either. They are both young and inexperienced and failing miserably at the moment.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Well, we have two more games with JB at the helm and then we will have our new QB playing. At least it's something to look forward to, and I for one do.
You can't run 2 backs at the same time in this Era. For one, none of those backs can play FB. Number 2...the misdirection play to the RB is all but extinct Number 3, the Browns don't run a single wing or wishbone Backfield
The Panthers game, the Browns first TD
Hunt lined up as a fullback in an "I formation" from the 1-yard line in front of Chubb and behind Brissett at the line of scrimmage.
Brissett faked a handoff to Chubb while Hunt dashed to the right
The Panthers were all focused on Chubb,
Allowing Brissett to make an easy pass to Hunt for the TD.
You can't run 2 backs at the same time in this Era. For one, none of those backs can play FB. Number 2...the misdirection play to the RB is all but extinct Number 3, the Browns don't run a single wing or wishbone Backfield
The Panthers game, the Browns first TD
Hunt lined up as a fullback in an "I formation" from the 1-yard line in front of Chubb and behind Brissett at the line of scrimmage.
Brissett faked a handoff to Chubb while Hunt dashed to the right
The Panthers were all focused on Chubb,
Allowing Brissett to make an easy pass to Hunt for the TD.
Just because it works once doesn't mean it can be used As a feature formation in the playbook. Running Chubb and Hunt In the backfield together is more gimmicky than anything It's a WR driven league not a RB driven league.
Watching the Bills, Vikings and now the Dolphins, the Browns are not even close to their levels. Browns will lose to the Bills by 21 next week.
The Bills were about to give up a TD in OT but the defense kept fighting, didn't give up, and forced a FG.
The Browns would have hung their heads, slumped their shoulders, saw the idiot son-in-law on the sideline, and realized what's the point. They know their organization is a clown show.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
I put this game on Woods and ALL the defensive players. They are soft. They never follow up a good game with another. Now we wait for Watson, but, he can't play defense. Another lost season. There are no leaders in this locker room. Just complacent players who don't care enough.
Sorry you can't get to the playoffs trying to ground and pound With 2 RBs...how has that worked since KS took over? Only 1 RB can touch the football. At least when your offense is pass 1st , you can have multiple Options downfield.
I hear so many posters compare what we do to what the rest of the league does. We don't need to play the game like every other team does. We aren't built the same. We need to exploit what we do best and minimize what we do poorly. We should run the ball 60% of the time. That's what we do best and it shortens the game keeping our defense off the field. Our top playmakers are Chubb, Cooper, Hunt, Njoku then Peoples-Jones. We should be feeding the ball to them and not worry about trying to get the ball to Bryant and Schwartz and the Pharaoh.
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
Arguments have been made whether our woeful defense is a matter of overrated (and overpriced) players at key positions, a problem with scheme or a combination of both. I'm leaning towards option #1. A new defensive coordinator next season should answer that question more clearly.
As far as the lack of defensive players as leaders goes, it seems like there needs to be a minimum amount of consistency in game to game effectiveness and (more importantly) consistency in the play at key positions before those leaders emerge.
I am so sick of the same BS phrases after every loss.
Maybe so, but what else should be said?
We need to stop the run. A true statement. Sometimes the obvious is all you can say.
He's putting the blame on Woods. Paving the way to fire him.
Probably so, and when we really boil it down, the D is the biggest problem with the team. All in all the O has done a pretty good job with a journeyman back-up at QB thus far in the season.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
At some point, regardless if a coach is good or not, don't get through to the players any longer.. That has happened here so its time for a new voice. But beyond that..I still say Berry/Depo are the biggest pieces holding us back.. Berry is just horrible.. Name one impact player he's drafted.. All the good players on this team were brought in by Dorsey.. The juggernaut chiefs.. their best players...Dorsey. Its not hard to see that at some point you have to say analytics aren't what you should be basing your whole organization on. It should be used a source of data for sure, but not the end all.
Stefanski's time has run out, he lived off of Kubiaks coattails and the farther we get away from that the more cracks we see.. Dude is a robot with no feel for the game. If its not successful in those scripted plays, forget about it. But his lack of leadership is appaling.
Woods hasn't been a good DC ever, not sure why we thought he would be. He should have been let go last year, but this year before the bye. Desperate for defensive help, Berry goes out and gets a LB on IR that was on his way out of a team that didn't want him that are worse than us. He fits right in getting run over.. Meanwhile, DT's still are PS players. Keep trying to polish that turd. Then you have the very stark difference with Dolphins and Chris Greer as GM.. goes out and signs the best LT available, the best WR available, drafts the best WR, goes out and gets a running back to help, signs Ingram as DE for peanuts. Gets rid of Flores who was respectable but they realized he isn't going to get them where they need to go so instead of wasting time, goes out and replaces him. Saw they still needed defensive help and trades for Chubb. Thats the difference between teams trying to win and teams trying to win the cap game.
All we can hope is Haslams sell the team and someone who knows football takes it over. Or at minimum, bring Dorsey back and get out of his way.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
That was an embarrassing loss and effort. Out executed. Out coached. Out tried.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Coming off our most complete win and with the bye week to prepare... to put that lackluster, unprepared team on the field should embarrass this organization from top to bottom. Especially anybody who has anything to do with the defense.
In the locker room after the game someone with authority should've just come in and said "after the obligatory media stuff, get on the busses. We're going to the airport. Don't come in tomorrow. We'll call you Monday evening to let you know if you should show up on Tuesday. And that goes for coaches also."
Unacceptable game. After a bye week no less.
And for the record, I don't CARE how any player "graded" out, or "rated" out, or whatever. According to pff, or any other rating/grading thing there is.
3-6 is what matters. We've had individuals rate/grade high, but we're 3-6.
a whole bye week, and this is what the defense looks like.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
hopefully haslam gives Woods the deposit for rent in miami as part of the severance package, cause aint no way he coming with us on the flight back home.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
And for the record, I don't CARE how any player "graded" out, or "rated" out, or whatever. According to pff, or any other rating/grading thing there is.
3-6 is what matters. We've had individuals rate/grade high, but we're 3-6.
a whole bye week, and this is what the defense looks like.
Did the offense look any better ?
we're not explosive on offense with JB, but we're an efficient O and we moved the ball fairly well today. but the defense was so trash that the game was already out of control for any meaningful chance to make a comeback on O. right now with DW still suspended, we don't have a QB that can go out there and and go toe for toe in a shootout. there's gonna be games where we need the QB to put the team on his back and go throw us to a win in a high scoring game.
that's why we got rid of baker. and that's just isn't the kind of QB JB is. and let me very clear here: no aspect of this L is on offense except the chubb fumble. that happened early enough that we could recover from that. what we're NOT gonna recover from is a turnover + a defense that just doesn't show up.
we aren't good at anything on defense. we can't stop the run, can't stop the pass, and can't create turnovers. the defense from the top down, bottom up is hot garbage.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
a whole bye week, and this is what the defense looks like.
Did the offense look any better ?
we're not explosive on offense with JB, but we're an efficient O and we moved the ball fairly well today. but the defense was so trash that the game was already out of control for any meaningful chance to make a comeback on O. right now with DW still suspended, we don't have a QB that can go out there and and go toe for toe in a shootout. there's gonna be games where we need the QB to put the team on his back and go throw us to a win in a high scoring game.
that's why we got rid of baker. and that's just isn't the kind of QB JB is. and let me very clear here: no aspect of this L is on offense except the chubb fumble. that happened early enough that we could recover from that. what we're NOT gonna recover from is a turnover + a defense that just doesn't show up.
we aren't good at anything on defense. we can't stop the run, can't stop the pass, and can't create turnovers. the defense from the top down, bottom up is hot garbage.
I get it Swish, but when an Offense can only put 17 on the board
With two of the best RB's in the league and a very good line
Lots of holding penalties the Offense looked just as bad as the Defense
Where's all the Homer's that predicted the Browns being a playoff Team thus year?
Wow. Well excuse me for wanting them to win and make the playoffs.
It's not an unrealistic expectation with the the talent on the team but two things had to happen...Stefanski and the defense had to be good. Neither turned out to be true.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
So I saw Garland in this first quarter completely waive off Love who had a smaller guy on him for a 30 ft jumper. Now he just fouled a desperate three point attempt at the first quarter buzzer.
Oy vey.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
a whole bye week, and this is what the defense looks like.
Did the offense look any better ?
we're not explosive on offense with JB, but we're an efficient O and we moved the ball fairly well today. but the defense was so trash that the game was already out of control for any meaningful chance to make a comeback on O. right now with DW still suspended, we don't have a QB that can go out there and and go toe for toe in a shootout. there's gonna be games where we need the QB to put the team on his back and go throw us to a win in a high scoring game.
that's why we got rid of baker. and that's just isn't the kind of QB JB is. and let me very clear here: no aspect of this L is on offense except the chubb fumble. that happened early enough that we could recover from that. what we're NOT gonna recover from is a turnover + a defense that just doesn't show up.
we aren't good at anything on defense. we can't stop the run, can't stop the pass, and can't create turnovers. the defense from the top down, bottom up is hot garbage.
I get it Swish, but when an Offense can only put 17 on the board
With two of the best RB's in the league and a very good line
Lots of holding penalties the Offense looked just as bad as the Defense
Yet Miami was stopping our running game. We don't have the passing game to support the running game.
Stefanski isn't all of a sudden throwing deep balls on 3rd and short because he wants to. He is doing it because teams are selling out against the run. I don't care how good your backs and line are, if a team sells out to stop the run, they will stop the run.
Taking deep shots is how Stefanski is trying to protect the running game. It's not because he doesn't want to run the ball.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
- The Browns had two weeks to prepare for this game and that is the performance they put on the field. Completely embarrassing. - Saw a team that looked disinterested. - Defense has a bunch of overpaid guys that do not make plays. Defense needs to replace a lot of players and the Browns do not have any 1st round picks to do so. - Watson will not fix what is wrong with this team.
- Another season wasted. .
Originally Posted by JulesDawg
The leadership on this team is so weak. From the coaches to the players. Anyone still defending this coaching staff is just trying to save face.
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
That was an embarrassing loss and effort. Out executed. Out coached. Out tried.
Originally Posted by DeisleDawg
That puts a bad look on the HC - As I see it, being the HC and you have troubles with the D and ST's and no improvements
That's a finger pointing back at the HC and incompetence of handling a team he is responsible for .
Originally Posted by archbolddawg
j/c. Terrible. After a bye week no less.
And for the record, I don't CARE how any player "graded" out, or "rated" out, or whatever. According to pff, or any other rating/grading thing there is.
3-6 is what matters. We've had individuals rate/grade high, but we're 3-6.
I think these comments summarize everything. Just embarrassing.
And for the record - coming off a GREAT performance against the Bengals. Coming off a BYE .... team played flat, uninspired, underprepared and that is 1000% on the coaches and is made worse because we have no leadership among the players.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Rish the problem is on the D side. That's a fact plainly evident week after week. I already said I believe We should give KS a shot with a top tier QB like DW. To fire him now would be unfair. I admit at times his play calling is a little mystifying to say the least but a QB like DW can improvise and make plays that Baker and Jacoby can't. With DW KS can do more.
Pretty much what I expected from the fire em all crew. If anyone should get his job scrutinized it’s be the guy who didn’t upgrade the D-line interior. I would suggest we prioritize the DL in the off—season. Suh might have been a good addition this season.
I already said I believe We should give KS a shot with a top tier QB like DW. To fire him now would be unfair.
In what universe is that unfair?
The Browns aren't losing because they don't have DW. They are losing primarily because their head coach and coaching staff is awful. There are other issues, but the product that Stefanski is putting on the field is fireable.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
Rish is a guy who wants to stir up crap, he never contributes football-wise, he wants people fired, traded, whatever it takes to satisfy his immediate gratification issue. Ask him to explain in-depth why he wants KS fired.
I did ask, and he couldn’t answer. In my mind, he’s the next Super Brown, Throw Long: on ignore.
I think it would be unfair because KS hasn't had a top tier QB running his O. We have one coming back in 3 weeks. Let's give him a shot to see what he can do with DW. At least we'll have a sample size to make a better decision on what needs to be done. We already have a HUGE amount of material on our D. Enough said...
Pretty much what I expected from the fire em all crew. If anyone should get his job scrutinized it’s be the guy who didn’t upgrade the D-line interior. I would suggest we prioritize the DL in the off—season. Suh might have been a good addition this season.
It was disgusting watching those guys get pushed around all game, I saw Togiai get thrown to the ground like a little female dog one play and was only blocked one on one. And the linebacker play just makes me want to drink myself silly.
Sure the offense has it's issues but you're not going to win many games in the nfl getting pushed around against the run game like that.
Your right it is pretty clear as to who was the better team. Both coaching and personal wise after all we have the coach of the the year. Last year it was Mayfield it is pretty clear this 3 win team is much better without him.
That's a big issue yes but not the only one. I think KS hands are tied somewhat because of a QB like Baker and JB. With average QB's you would call a game differently than with a top QB. We have a lot of issues with the D from lack of talent at some positions to bad coaching. I don't know if others will agree with me but we all felt our WR position was a little thin but IMO it seems to be getting better with every game. WE still could use another guy there but the ones we have seem to be improving and that's with JB.
Sometimes. When I get responses like this, I'll keep laying it on thick because I love to see people triggered. I'm a jerk like that.
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he never contributes football-wise
How is commenting on Stefanski not "football-wise"? Isn't he the coach of the team?
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he wants people fired, traded
Only if they deserve it. Stefanski had never had any head coaching experience anywhere before the Browns. It's clear he's in over his head. You should expect and want more from your team.
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whatever it takes to satisfy his immediate gratification issue.
I've been waiting over twenty years for the Browns to be good. If that is "immediate gratification" I think I'm doing pretty good.
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Ask him to explain in-depth why he wants KS fired.
I did ask, and he couldn’t answer.
I honestly don't remember you asking, but there are a lot of posts/posters on here I skip over and don't read. Or sometimes I'm on my phone and it's difficult to type up a thorough post. But mostly I don't care. The results are out there for all to see. Losing season last season. Got rid of the quarterback he said he couldn't win with. Losing season this season. Team plays uninspired football. They field a college level defense. No other NFL game on the docket today had holes in the running game that the Dolphins had today. After a bye week. He's incompetent in every sense of the word. The results show that. And I'm the jerk for posting about it? Okay, I can live with that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
I don't think you're a jerk Rish. You're entitled to your opinion like I am. I'm just saying let's give KS more time with a better QB. If it's more of the same than we can talk about a coaching change. Joe Woods and the D have had enough time IMO. Enough is enough but making a change now might not be the right time.
I don't think you're a jerk Rish. You're entitled to your opinion like I am. I'm just saying let's give KS more time with a better QB. If it's more of the same than we can talk about a coaching change. Joe Woods and the D have had enough time IMO. Enough is enough but making a change now might not be the right time.
If Stefanski could have kept the team .500 and been competitive in every game, I would have had no issue letting him work with DW. .500 and competitive was a reasonable expectation considering the schedule and talent on this team. But he can't even muster that. He lost to the Jets under a circumstance that hadn't happened in the last 2,222 times. Missing DW isn't the issue with this team.
Stefanski caught some lightning in a bottle year 1 when no fans were allowed in stadiums. The best game under Stefanski that year he was in his basement. He came down to earth in season 2. He started the season 3-1 and then completely fell apart. His QB did him no favors, but the same defensive issues existed last year. And this year the cycle is complete. Complete meltdown. Team plays like they don't care. This is the guy you want to work with DW?
Has he earned it? Does he deserve it?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
There weren't many running opportunities because of the hole the defense put us in. But Stefanski could have made an executive decision to play Chubb more and Hunt less. But he doesn't want to deal with Hunt afterwards. Or he just wants to "stick to the formula".
Is that a leader?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
With average QB's you would call a game differently than with a top QB.
What would you do different? Run the ball more??? Throw fewer deep passes??? Doesn't seem like that is happening. So how is he calling the game differently?
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
You make some valid points no doubt. But yes, I do think he deserves a shot with DW. He hasn't had much to work with at QB, but Baker did have a good year with KS and last year Baker was beat up. I'd give him a shot with DW. The season is on life support now and after next week it will be dead. After their last 2 games Buffalo is going to be in a foul mood and looking for blood next week. 39 points this week it may be over that next week.
I don't care. When you have 2 of the top 6 running backs in the league, and they only get 17 carries combined?????? They both thrive on carries. 17 total carries for the running backs. Relying on a backup qb, who's played well, to pass you into a W?
3-6. D stunk. 3-6. Take the grades of individuals and shove them. 3-6. We could EASILY be 6-3, at worst. D stinks. O isn't being run well. I don't know who that falls on but I'd guess Stefanski will have an excuse.
Stefanski isn't going anywhere without having a full season with DW next year. the only dude who has a chance of being let go is Woods.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
You could run different pass plays and mix the runs in differently. Just the fact that DW is more accurate and can scramble would open things up. Other teams would have to respect those skills that DW has unlike what we have now.
Stefanski isn't going anywhere without having a full season with DW next year. the only dude who has a chance of being let go is Woods.
Are you ok with that?
not if woods is still here. he's lost the defense. if stefanski doesn't fire him, he'll lose the team. but overall, yea im good with stefanski having a full year with DW because the offense is gonna thrive with him as QB. people just having a hard time acknowledging that right now we've peaked on O because our QB is limited. until the passing game is a threat, and ESPECIALLY with the defense being horrible, every team is gonna stack the box and make JB have to beat them. run game isn't gonna carry this team every week. stefanski isn't going anywhere because AB isn't going anywhere.
our coach of the year deserves at least 1 season with our 250 million "franchise" QB.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I see a defense that has no desire, effort, fortitude, or will. And they don’t believe in their coach. Today was as bad of a loss as we’ve had in recent years
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Different year same story for the Browns Not in the playoff conversation and the talk is now About what draft picks the Browns should draft In 2023. I love how a portion of the posters bring up "Blah blah we have the best 2 RBs in the league and Stefanski isn't using them right blah blah " Well take off your rose colored glasses Cause Kareem Hunt is not and I repeat is NOT a top 10 RB.....he was with KC. And newsflash, the RB position is devalued
I rather have 2 WRs on my offense ranked in top 20 instead of 2 RBs. I swear some of you are stuck in the Byner Mack Years....and even that duo didn't equate to a SB appearance.
This team was so over rated in the off season And DeShaun Watson does not make this team A automatic playoff team next year . Bank on it
our DE’s didnt make one lick of a difference today either. we didn’t have one guy on defense who made a difference
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I know Miami's offense is good, but our defense looked rough... especially run defense...
WHAT run defense?
I think we were out coached. Miami, with a poor running game and a good passing game, ran over us. In rushing, and passing. Us, with a good running game against a not so stout running D, got ..............well, you watched the game. We all did. Sad.
season is over, I'd rather clean house now, especially on defense.. If anything it shows that the ownership actually cares about more than $. Then you have idiots like Garrett coming out and saying that the bucs and the bill aren't unbeatable...yeah ok dude..We've seen enough of your patty cake game to know that to us, anyone is unbeatable. Bills will beat us by 3 TDS going away.. They'll have they bench in by end of 3rd. Wish these guys would play as good as they talk in the press.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
....We have no draft picks and no cap space.......
True on the draft picks.
Wildly incorrect on cap space. The Browns have, and will continue to have, an envious amount of cap space.
Watson will be restructured next year. JJ III will be designated a post 6/1 release. Clowney will be designated a post 6/1 release in order to kick dead cap into 2024.
Kareem Hunt will be gone.
Jack Conklin will also likely be designated a post 6/1 release in order to avoid a dead cap hit in 2023.
Also, broadcasting rights deal will kick in 2023 giving the Browns plenty of flexibility and really explode in 2024.
We miss Njoku on offense, especially on the 3rd and medium type plays.
Hunt is not the Hunt of years past … it’s apparent that he is nearing the twilight already
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I don't think you're a jerk Rish. You're entitled to your opinion like I am. I'm just saying let's give KS more time with a better QB. If it's more of the same than we can talk about a coaching change. Joe Woods and the D have had enough time IMO. Enough is enough but making a change now might not be the right time.
I agree with Rish, the problem isn't the QB. No doubt Jacoby isn't a starter, but he and the O haven't been the problem. The problem I have with Rish's take is that Stefanski needs to be fired. I don't see that at all. I don't think Woods should be fired mid-term because it wouldn't fix anything.
Now I will say that if Stefanski doesn't want to make changes on D, then he needs to be canned as well.
We also have a problem in that though Woods isn't any good for the team, we have a bunch of players on the D that need to be replaced as well. Woods is hurt a bit because he has some pretty pitiful defensive players.
I know it won't go this far, but there are aren't many players on the D that I think are any good. We need to replace a lot of them.
Ward is one of them. I would seek a draft choice for the guy. He is a selfish, "me" player.
Even more than the O, the D needs to live and die as a unit. When you are getting your ass handed to you, you don't need to be celebrating a pass break-up. Everybody on the defensive side of the ball was responsible for that disaster. No celebrations needed.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
This game was decided in the trenches and it was decided early. Miami completely dominated our offensive line and defensive line. They neutralized Chubb and our running game and forced our backup to win the game. He can't do that. Jacoby holds on to the ball way too long and pressure was applied by their D all game long. That's not a good equation for success. Teller going out didn't help.
This team also doesn't want to tackle on the defensive side. They simply throw their shoulder into someone up high and that doesn't do much. So many plays were extended because guys wouldn't wrap up.
Miami outcoached and outplayed us in every aspect of the game. We came out (outside of the first drive) emotionless and it felt like they were going through the motions as if they had too much fun in Miami Beach the night before.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Who gives a damn about “the most important position in football”? Why do I say that? Because there aren’t enough QBs in the league EVER To allow every team to have an enormously talented QB. Does this mean the position should be ignored? No, certainly not. It does mean that an organization has to build a TEAM, a total team, which means all phases of the actual team, coaches, FO and support. Can that ever be truly achieved? Probably not but every organization must try to come as close as possible to that standard.
If we put Mahomes on the Browns he would not have the success that he has had in KC. If we put Brady in his prime on the Browns he would not have as much success as he had in NE.
If we lack talent, lack coordination, coaching and organization then we are screwed. If the talent is not top shelf that does not mean failure if the other phases can overcome the talent level. The Browns have the problem of too many things not being good enough. As an example Stefanski screwed up by playing Mayfield last year. If he had made the decision to get mayfield healthy he would probably have taken heat for it but it would have been the right thing to do. It is likely he could have explained that to the FO and they would have accepted it. But he didn’t do that. So a decision was made to offer a truly psychotic contract to a guy who hadn’t played that year and who they knew or should have known would miss a huge portion of this year. All while not really upgrading the WR position.
The Browns are and will continue to be an expansion team until they rectify the entire problem.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
And you can usually get very good ones later in a draft considering we don't have a 1st rounder.
Well I don't know what success rate DT's have in the NFL (compared to other positions) when taken later in rounds. Generally no matter the position - probability of success drops each round for each position.
My question is - how did Stefanski and Berry decide to roll with our current DTs and LBs this offseason. Those were a position of need last year (other than JOK who flashed plenty). If you tell me that other positions were a higher priority this last off season ... where on the roster other than Kicker did we improve?
It seems lost in the shuffle that - when we talk about waiting for Watson - the entire roster this FO put together is lacking. We hopefully made a killer move for an elite QB..... but there was an entire free agency and multiple draft picks to improve the team. It doesn't seem improved.
Last edited by mgh888; 11/14/2210:19 AM.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I'm no technical football guru, but from my perspective, Brissett makes his primary read based on the what the defense shows. He locks on that read until he realizes it's not going to happen, then moves to his second read, and so on. He doesn't scan the field after the snap to see what's available. Which is why he seems to hold the ball so long at times.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
Yeah I don't trust Berry to make any good pick. Berry and Woods should be first ones gone.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Stefanski isn't going anywhere without having a full season with DW next year. the only dude who has a chance of being let go is Woods.
This is where we may disagree. It may work out as you have suggested but maybe not. I think that ALL depends on watson and watson alone. watson will have six games with Stefanski being his HC. You're a married man so I think you know how this works. The Browns gave watson a fully guaranteed contract. The Browns are married to watson. They however are not married to Stefanski. The Browns sold the farm for watson not only in $$$ but future draft picks. The future of this team for the next four years after this season lay squarely on watson's shoulders. So what watson thinks after these six games in 2022 in regards to working in Stefanski's O will determine the fate of Stefnaski for next year. We saw exactly what happened in Houston when watson "wasn't happy". He signed a contract and then refused to play only a couple of months later. Do you think the Browns would risk that repeating itself?
If after six games watson doesn't agree with the O Stefnaski runs, Stefanski is gone. If he doesn't like Stefanski, Stefanski is gone. You're not going to force your 230 million dollar man to play for a HC he either doesn't believe in or doesn't like. That just makes no sense. You side with the one you're married to. You're not going to spend nearly a quarter of a billion dollars to make that player unhappy.
As far as Woods, he's got to go. I've tried to defend Stefanski but after yesterday, no more. But make no mistake, it won't be Halsam or this FO making the decision on Stefanski being here next year. It will be watson.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Stefanski isn't going anywhere without having a full season with DW next year. the only dude who has a chance of being let go is Woods.
This is where we may disagree. It may work out as you have suggested but maybe not. I think that ALL depends on watson and watson alone. watson will have six games with Stefanski being his HC. You're a married man so I think you know how this works. The Browns gave watson a fully guaranteed contract. The Browns are married to watson. They however are not married to Stefanski. The Browns sold the farm for watson not only in $$$ but future draft picks. The future of this team for the next four years after this season lay squarely on watson's shoulders. So what watson thinks after these six games in 2022 in regards to working in Stefanski's O will determine the fate of Stefnaski for next year. We saw exactly what happened in Houston when watson "wasn't happy". He signed a contract and then refused to play only a couple of months later. Do you think the Browns would risk that repeating itself?
If after six games watson doesn't agree with the O Stefnaski runs, Stefanski is gone. If he doesn't like Stefanski, Stefanski is gone. You're not going to force your 230 million dollar man to play for a HC he either doesn't believe in or doesn't like. That just makes no sense. You side with the one you're married to. You're not going to spend nearly a quarter of a billion dollars to make that player unhappy.
As far as Woods, he's got to go. I've tried to defend Stefanski but after yesterday, no more. But make no mistake, it won't be Halsam or this FO making the decision on Stefanski being here next year. It will be watson.
So, you're saying Stefanski's best chance of staying employed is to become a masseuse?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
No leadership at the coaching position or in the locker room. Defensive roster drastically overrated and missing talent/ability up the middle. Players probably making plans for the offseason with the way they looked yesterday. Watson is NOT the answer to this team turning around. Please get rid of the analytics BS. Let's get back to playing common sense football. Watson and Stefanski get to audition for the last 6 of the games to see if KS is around next season. Woods is gone. The jury is out on Berry and the way this roster has been put together. Would not be surprised to see a complete overhaul of the coaching staff and front office. This is a total S-show. I honestly do not understand how people continue to spend their hard earned money on this garbage. I, for one, stopped a while ago. Haslam and this organization do not deserve one cent for the product being put on the field. I just don't understand how a franchise can be completely inept for this long. It's sad really.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
Stefanski isn't going anywhere without having a full season with DW next year. the only dude who has a chance of being let go is Woods.
This is where we may disagree. It may work out as you have suggested but maybe not. I think that ALL depends on watson and watson alone. watson will have six games with Stefanski being his HC. You're a married man so I think you know how this works. The Browns gave watson a fully guaranteed contract. The Browns are married to watson. They however are not married to Stefanski. The Browns sold the farm for watson not only in $$$ but future draft picks. The future of this team for the next four years after this season lay squarely on watson's shoulders. So what watson thinks after these six games in 2022 in regards to working in Stefanski's O will determine the fate of Stefnaski for next year. We saw exactly what happened in Houston when watson "wasn't happy". He signed a contract and then refused to play only a couple of months later. Do you think the Browns would risk that repeating itself?
If after six games watson doesn't agree with the O Stefnaski runs, Stefanski is gone. If he doesn't like Stefanski, Stefanski is gone. You're not going to force your 230 million dollar man to play for a HC he either doesn't believe in or doesn't like. That just makes no sense. You side with the one you're married to. You're not going to spend nearly a quarter of a billion dollars to make that player unhappy.
As far as Woods, he's got to go. I've tried to defend Stefanski but after yesterday, no more. But make no mistake, it won't be Halsam or this FO making the decision on Stefanski being here next year. It will be watson.
I tend to agree with all of that as far as substance goes; but have a hard time believing things could go that far south in six games. We'll have no hope for the postseason so we'll already be playing for next season. Watson will have some rust. Things will take time to gel. Certain parts of a "Watson offense" would be better kept under wraps anyway. Everyone will be in alignment on this point of view. The only monkey wrench would be if we were to miraculously beat Buffalo and Tampa Bay the next two weeks... and we all know that ain't happening.
Stefanski isn't going anywhere without having a full season with DW next year. the only dude who has a chance of being let go is Woods.
This is where we may disagree. It may work out as you have suggested but maybe not. I think that ALL depends on watson and watson alone. watson will have six games with Stefanski being his HC. You're a married man so I think you know how this works. The Browns gave watson a fully guaranteed contract. The Browns are married to watson. They however are not married to Stefanski. The Browns sold the farm for watson not only in $$$ but future draft picks. The future of this team for the next four years after this season lay squarely on watson's shoulders. So what watson thinks after these six games in 2022 in regards to working in Stefanski's O will determine the fate of Stefnaski for next year. We saw exactly what happened in Houston when watson "wasn't happy". He signed a contract and then refused to play only a couple of months later. Do you think the Browns would risk that repeating itself?
If after six games watson doesn't agree with the O Stefnaski runs, Stefanski is gone. If he doesn't like Stefanski, Stefanski is gone. You're not going to force your 230 million dollar man to play for a HC he either doesn't believe in or doesn't like. That just makes no sense. You side with the one you're married to. You're not going to spend nearly a quarter of a billion dollars to make that player unhappy.
As far as Woods, he's got to go. I've tried to defend Stefanski but after yesterday, no more. But make no mistake, it won't be Halsam or this FO making the decision on Stefanski being here next year. It will be watson.
I tend to agree with all of that as far as substance goes; but have a hard time believing things could go that far south in six games. We'll have no hope for the postseason so we'll already be playing for next season. Watson will have some rust. Things will take time to gel. Certain parts of a "Watson offense" would be better kept under wraps anyway. Everyone will be in alignment on this point of view. The only monkey wrench would be if we were to miraculously beat Buffalo and Tampa Bay the next two weeks... and we all know that ain't happening.
I missed Pit's post. I agree with it too.
I'm not predicting Watson will love or hate Stefanski - but I agree 100% that Stefanski's future on the team is reliant on what Watson thinks of and how he responds to KS and the KS play calling/scheme.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
I cannot wait until this turd is released in the offseason.
How about quit sucking in coverage and quit trying to tackle someone by throwing your shoulder into the guy and make actual impact plays?? How does that sound?
I don't think it has to go "that far south in six games". I don't think that unless they win 5 or 6 of those last 6 games that it makes any difference either way. I think if the Browns look anything less than stellar in those last 6 games it will all hinge on what watson thinks.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Yeah, I too wasn't trying to make a prediction either way on what watson will think of working with and playing for Stefnaksi. I have no way of knowing the outcome of that either way.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
"It doesn’t matter if you’re ready to run through a wall if it’s in the wrong direction,” Garrett said after the game. “We really need to just focus in a little bit more and that’s where we’re going to get back to doing. We have that kind of energy when we’re ready to attack, but everybody’s gotta be focusing and going all in the right direction, all on the same page.”
“No one enjoys losing regardless [if you’re] coming off a win or another loss,” Garrett said. “A loss is a loss and it hurts all the same.”
What Garrett might not understand is that there are people at the top of the Browns organization who may not have "winning" as their #1 priority.
Browns fans have seen this act before and from the same group of individuals.
There is only one way the Browns front office can move up in the draft and based on the quality of coaching I saw against the Dolphins, something stinks in Browns management.
All you have to do is watch the Bengals game and compare that performance by the coaching staff and players VS what we saw from the coaches against the Fish.
Do you mean like in 2020? Oh no, these same people must have proiotized winning then but wish to lose their careers by not caring now. The Browns have had the Bengals number for five games in a row. Nov. 7th last season we beat the Bengals 41-16 then went on to loose the next 2 of 3 games. Your example falls flat.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I nearly forgot D'Anthony Bell got the start because Delpit was disciplined for one snap to start the game.
That's a pretty hefty punishment.
I bet whatever he did he won't do again.
Next time they're taking 1/70 of his game check as well. As long as they keep escalating the punishment, he'll be scared straight in no time, or by 2027, which ever comes first.
I cannot wait until this turd is released in the offseason.
How about quit sucking in coverage and quit trying to tackle someone by throwing your shoulder into the guy and make actual impact plays?? How does that sound?
actually, the fact that JJ3 has been this bad is more proof that Woods is trash.. JJ3 was ELITE before he came here. A system can make a great player bad. Delpit is the guy that needs to go at the safety position. Never seen a player get beat so much in a season and celebrate as many routine plays in my life
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
Our safety play in general has been bad, but yes JJ3 was touted as a top 3-4 guy in the league and he looks totally cooked with us
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
First of all he was not top 3 before he got here. Point 2 how the defense that was 14 th in points allowedwent stupid. Did all the players forget what they did right. This is not going to persuade you because even if we were top 5 in defense you would want to blame Joe woods so you don't have to say Are wins totals are down because we can not get a 40 out of qb.
And you can usually get very good ones later in a draft considering we don't have a 1st rounder.
That takes some luck. You can usually get one in the 2nd round and you can usually find a good player in FA.
Things may change. We have some players who would be good in a 3-4 D. We might be best suited to go that route. BIG NT's can be had all across the board.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
I cannot wait until this turd is released in the offseason.
Somebody on twitter had the EXACT same reaction that I did:
Rob Ostrom @RobOstrom · 20h Replying to @camijustice Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
The more things change the more they stay the same.
The weather in the Bills game will be an equalizer it appears. But I still can’t see it
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
I just think inclement weather always lessens the better team’s chances of winning. I wasn’t really talking in terms of cold weather teams, just in general.
Like, if it’s going to be a monsoon and the Chiefs play the Texans, I’d be inclined to think it would be a closer game than if it was nice weather
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
To that point, and not making fun, but if bad weather is our advantage when we play at home, how is bad weather in Buffalo a equalizer?
Seems that Buffalo would be as adept at playing in poor weather as would we.
Personally, I think the "cold team vs warm team", and the "bad weather team vs. good weather team" is over rated. I don't know about Buffalo, but the Browns don't practice outside in cold weather.
I DO think "bad weather" affects passing teams more than running teams. But, only to an extent, as passing teams receiver's have an advantage of being able to set up their cuts.
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