DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski

Not sure I'm following, I wasn't arguing with Fate, just stating that if we cleaned house it doesn't necessarily mean we are set back 5 years if we make the right choices.. I know theres alot of ifs in there and to his point it doesn't mean we will all of a sudden start hiring the right people after 20 years of this garbage, but we did have a good GM and scouts with Dorsey, FK was the mistake, but it should not have cost Dorsey his job.

And no love for this? WTH??

15 minutes in Photoshop I'll never get back.

More.common ground. I agree with this 100%.

It was based on some previous posts before yours. I was trying to be funny.

Exactly, the Browns have a HC acting like a coordinator and nobody acting like a HC. Hell, even the people in this forum comment week after week about how well they think Stefanski has the offense working with his play calling. Those same posters say nothing about Stefanski when talking about the defense. I've asked it before, and I'll ask it again: "Who the hell is the HC of the Cleveland Browns?"

For all those Stefanski supporters that said the Browns would have better QB play this year even with Brissett being the starter for 11 games, the stats and record through 9-weeks makes that statement totally false.


____QB______Comp_Att_Comp %__ yards_____TD_INT__ Rate____Sacks__Fumbles_W___L____T___PCT
Brissett_______185__290__63.8%___2074_____8___5___ 93.95___19_______ 5___ 3___ 6___ 0___ 0.333
Mayfield 2021__150__225__66.7%___1917_____8___3___104.76___24_______ 4___5____4___0___ 0.556 (injured in week 2)
Mayfield 2020__149__243__61.3%___1646____15___7___101.50___12_______ 1___ 6___3____0___0.667

Who cares. Watson is the Browns starting QB. The Browns got rid of Baker for Watson. Brisket is only a placeholder. Baker is not even starting.

Here’s my dream scenario: we keep KS, fire Woods, and hire Mike Zimmer as DC

Sorry, I don't see that at all. At least any more than any other owner. Sure, he is the owner so he hires the help, but pointing to him for the problems is a pretty narrow view .

I never felt that and never entertained that because Baker wasn't replaced by Brissett. He was replaced by Watson.

I mentioned that a week or two ago.

I think it would be a good move. Much depends on if Zimmer wants to do that. The recent death of his son may hurt that possibility, or may help as a way for Mike Zimmer to "escape" so to speak.

Some people tend to drop out a bit, others jump head long in to work or some other activity.

To that point, which does have some merit, I might like to see Van Pelt call the plays the rest of the season.

I don't mind the head coach calling plays, but not doing so can give the head coach more ability to interact with the defense and D coordinator.

I just don't know how much of that is or isn't already happening. Headsets allow you to be in anyone's ear at any given time.

The self-appointed guru of all of football and his hate club cares because they have flooded this forum with posts about how well off the Browns would be this season with Brissett rather than Mayfield with Watson the Predator suspended. If you're going to insist on spewing the hatred day after day, you can expect to be called out when you are wrong. What's happening to Mayfield outside of the Browns has no bearing on whether the Browns are better right now or not. There's been countless posts by that group praising Brissett's performance and Stefanski's OC work on the 3-6 team. Too bad the injured Baker didn't receive the same kind of support when he was here playing injured and has consequentially out played his immediate replacement. The boat has sailed as you said and it's true the Browns got rid of Baker for Watson, but the team is not better off at this point though some will continue to spew their hate like the Browns really are - NOT!

Yeah good point peen

So your argument is that the Browns are so bad as an organization they can't be set back any further? Essentially if every 3 years we traded away 3 first round picks for a player who was not as good as he was supposed to be (and therefore not elite) and locked up 1/4 $billiion on one player, we wouldn't be any worse off. Yeah - I disagree.

Some have been expressing this perspective for a long time. And it's not because the offense is in disarray - it's because as a HC you are responsible for the entire product on the field. Defense and Special Teams need the HC's attention. But to suggest that was to get ridiculed by some because the offense was working.

Like a few others have said - I have lost faith in Stefanski for a number of reasons.

I doubt he gets fired in the offseason and the pit in my stomach that thinks he is flawed as a HC and has reached his ceiling and we are seeing what we will continue to get what we see now moving on. If Watson comes back and is elite - I worry that will only paper over the flaws. If Watson comes back and is 'only' a top 12-15 QB in the NFL then we are screwed.

I addressed this in the Bengals Game forum but it will be gone in a few days so I'll address it here as well. Whether Stefanski is back or not next year will hinge on one thing...... watson.

This team married watson with that guaranteed contract. Almost a quarter of a billion dollars. They are not however married to Stefanski. watson will get six games playing for Stefanski. You can bet your ass that the owner who is writing the checks will listen to watson because he is the golden calf. He is what Haslam believes the future of this team depends on to succeed. Follow the money. So Stefanski's future beyond this season will rest on whether watson believes in Stefanski's system and whether he likes working with Stefanski.

I mean let's look at what happened in Houston. Only a little over two months after signing an extended contract watson decided he would hold out and demand a trade because he didn't like the decision the owner made in his new hirings. Do you really think Haslam doesn't know that? Do you really think Haslam would risk taking a chance of having a disgruntled watson? Do you really think he would try to force watson to play in a system or with a HC he doesn't believe in or doesn't like? No, he's invested far too much to take such a risk.

Make no mistake, what watson thinks of Stefanski after those last six games will determine Stefanski's future in Cleveland.

I saw your reply and I agree with your sentiments. Stefanski's fate is tied to how well Watson likes his scheme and how well Watson likes him as a head coach. I'm not saying one way or the other weather Watson will like or hate stiffensky, but I agree that Watson is king in the relationship.

Same here. I have no idea what watson will think about working with and playing for Stefnaski

Watson is the key but I do not see Stefanski as a leader of men which is his primary responsibility (even though he thinks calling plays is). This is the main disconnect I think this team is facing. Lack of leadership and I sense a lack of belief in the defensive coaching staff (mainly Woods). I think if Watson, Chubb, Cooper, Njoku, etc. don't feel like KS is the guy they will speak up (mainly Watson) and change will occur. If Woods is retained I think big trouble lies ahead in 2023. This team is so poorly run that I'm not sure what needs to happen at this point. It's just sad to watch week in and week out. SMH

I really think we're talking apples and oranges here Pit; or at least, apples and sour apples.

We're talking about Watson, who had already played four seasons with a dysfunctional organization, and was all but promised he would "have a say"... and then ghosted. And then trying to forecast that "attitude problem", or whatever you want to call it, into a brand-new situation.

Thinking that Watson will be pounding his fists on the table for a new coach, after six games, after not playing for two years, is a huge stretch imo.

I'm not saying the past is not reason for concern; but if the above scenario came to pass, we have much bigger problems than a coaching change.


Now, put yourself in our FO's shoes and situation:

~ We already have a scapegoat, it's our terrible defensive performance and the coach in question on that side of the ball. That, and not having Watson available are the two biggest (glaring) reasons why were not talking about playoffs and an immediate chance for a championship. One of those things may point to Stefanski and his responsibility as a leader. The other is clearly the fault of Deshaun Watson.

~ If we're concerned with the above scenario (actually, even if we're not), we will have a strongly-aligned narrative going forward. It would be something along these lines... Get comfortable in the offense with your eyes towards next season. Shake off the rust. Keep your mind open to what you think works and doesn't work and ideas for improvement in yourself and our scheme. Look forward to the off-season and working with Kevin and the players towards creating an offensive scheme that matches your skillset.

If you think that the QB who this ownership is married to for quite some won't have a huge influence whether Stefanski stays or goes so be it. Even with everything you said they aren't going to want their golden calf being forced to play and work with a HC he doesn't want to work with or play for. watson holds all the cards. And who is it exactly that claims watson was supposed to actually have that say in Houston? I've seen that said and repeated many times. Telling watson what to do hasn't worked out well so far. Or as you word it " a strongly-aligned narrative ".

I can't speak for Pit -- but I don't think it's likely that Watson will turn on KS. Just that if the locker room feels dysfunctional, if KS has lost the players, if the offense isn't Watson friendly ... it is possible that Watson could sour on KS and I think if that did happen, Watson's voice would carry a lot of weight. It's much more likely that - no matter how bad things play out, Stefanski will be here next year. But, you know, Browns is the Browns.

Didn't say that at all. Endorsed your post in the first thread with this same simple disclaimor: That won't be happening after six freaking games. Especially since it's the QB's fault he missed the first eleven.

Everybody in the sports world including Adam Schefter, Ian Rapoport, Aaron Wilson of the Houston Chronicle and the horse himself -- Cal McNair, the team's chairman and chief operating officer. Sorry you missed all of that; if you want a baker's dozen links, let me know.

Hi there Pit !

Reading your sig

Hopefully he can pick a better HC then what's been on the previous list

LOL ya never know right ?


The QB and HC thing in Browns town has been very disappointing for sure.


Somehow if they can figure out how adding gelatin powder to water makes for a good jell o


use that to put together a good team that Jells well !!!


stupid I know LOL

100% support this!

don't know if he wants to coach, but think he could be a great hire

I see a lot of micro analyses of players and coaches about who’s to blame. Especially DC Joe Woods and half of the D get the lion share of all criticism and as many point out we play with a back up QB. Most of it is probably correct and I think with these changes our results will improve dramatically but the important and difficult question is will it be enough to elevate the Browns to be a SB contender?

From a macro perspective I have following questions.

Who has the final say in this organization regarding personnel changes? Is it the owners, our GM or our HC? Honest question. Who’s is in charge?

Who’s in charge of our players? According YouTube Quincy most of Kevin Stefanski’s critics are wrong. He’s only in charge of the O, not the rest of the team and he has no accountability if the D or the ST don’t perform to expectations. So then my question is who’s our HC? Who’s is in charge of the whole team?

What is Andrew Berry’s responsibilities? Draft picks? Free agency? New contracts? Coaches? Is he in charge of our DC or only in our so called HC? Another honest question. What’s his main responsibilities?

Who’s in charge of DePodesta and the analytics? What’s their role and their involvement regarding the HC and how he operate? Do they report to the GM? The HC? The owners?



From what I can see as a new supporter who has followed the Browns since 2017 the answers to these questions aren’t crystal clear. I don’t see a unquestionable leader in this organization.

And that lead me to my main criticism. Cleveland Browns don’t have a healthy leadership. Who’s in charge of who?

There are huge question marks about the working environment. From my perspective it isn’t player friendly. Too many controversies. Too much noise. Too many leaks.

I don’t see a clear frame work. I don’t see any accountability. I don’t see any toughness from a standpoint of leadership. Where’s the togetherness between the FO, the coaches and the players? Where’s the camaraderie? In bad times they all seems to be on their own.

Have our GM disappeared from the earth? Where’s is owners. I see a lonely HC. I see some players just shaking their heads. I see clueless local reporters.


It’s off course I not all black and white.

There’re probably many good people inside this organization but as a whole it lack leadership. From my perspective that’s the real problem and why this organization has problem to move forward and to be successful.

Well, he must have read this post.....the way he asserted his leadership and put the hammer down with that 1 snap suspension of Delpit. The team now knows who's boss.

Seriously, why would you even say that to the press?

I hope we put in some emotional support for Delphit ... I mean, punish him certainly, but when the hammer comes down so hard make sure he bounces back eh?

Great post and I agree with nearly all of it ... the only one I disagree with is the complaint that the Haslam's are missing from the picture. That's how i should be. We don't need them meddling or making comments in the media. They hired people to run the team - let them run it.

Berry is never a high profile figure - he disappears for long stretches which is probably true of most GMs. But his draft picks are in the spot light and many or most are found to be wanting.

j/c:

It's pretty much that way with all teams with a QB who is considered top shelf. Coaches don't usually get to where they have that sway until they are more or less legacy in nature, and even then, they don't usually get there until they have had good relationships with their QB's.

A guy like Belicheck might be able to say "my way or the highway" to Watson, maybe a few others, but it isn't many, and even then they find a way. Belicheck and Brady didn't always see eye to eye, but they found a way.

Just a general comment.

I see comments about Stefanski being the head coach. He should be over all.

In theory that is correct, but in reality is it that way?

All coaches come from one side of the ball or the other. When was the time we had a coach who was both a D coordinator and a offensive coordinator? We are probably going back to Paul Brown or George Halas to did something like that. Maybe Landry.

Stefanski isn't over the D. He is here to make the changes if the D isn't performing. We'll find out at seasons end if Stefanski is a head coach when he fires Woods. Stefanski isn't going to go in and start setting defensive gameplans or anything like that.

Maybe, to some extent. But by that rationale no president or CEO is ever responsible for their companies sales, marketing, engineering, or any other department... They're just there to employ other people to do those jobs?. That isn't how it works. Top guy is always responsible. That's how accountability works.

The Jason Lloyd clip was interesting, 2 years of Barry and stefansky and the haslams are saying they still haven't found a solution for certain. And very telling that he agreed 100% that the guaranteed money was the single biggest reason Watson signed for the Browns. So the hour of watching tape with stefansky really means diddly squat

Right. However this is a bit different in that it is harder to make a in season change v the CEO who can make the move much easier.

If the CEO doesn't have the right talent in house, they can start to recruit from anywhere at any time. The NFL football coach can't just start calling around and talking to other coaches around the league without violating all sorts of league rules.

Even if the coach is outside the league it is hard to make any real change mid eason.

Maybe Stefanski already has a guy he wants who is outside the league and is having that guy evaluate current players on the roster so by the time he is on board they will already know who we can keep and who we need to dump.

We don't know that steps aren't already being taken. Firings aren't usually the 1st step in the process. It is the last step.

Again - partially agree but we've changed tack from it's not his responsibility to we can't change mid season. And while I sort of agree - I'd actually like a few games under a different DC to determine if any of the players 'on the bubble' are trash or whether they have potential under a coach who can ... coach.

I don't think we have anybody. I think our LB coach was a DC at one point....is Tarver his name?

I am fine if we do that. It just doesn't happen very often.

In the end, KS is not going to survive Watson...he's just not. KS doesn't have "it" and Watson isn't going to tolerate that. Watson will demand/require a leader and KS is NOT that guy.

Rip off the Woods bandaid and get on with it. Teams do make coaching moves during the season...especially when a coach has repeatedly demonstrated an ability to continue being the same ineffective guy he's been for years.

Berry should be on watch as well...his drafts have been questionable and his claim-to-fame is re-signing other guys' guys.

It's funny how people rant against Haslam for making changes, yet here they are wanting to blow things up.