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#1987616 11/20/22 04:52 PM
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I'd appreciate it if we kept this thread to griping. If we have any Xs and Os talk, I will start another thread to get back to griping.

--In a league of parity, there are only two teams who are not competitive, the Texans and the Browns. The Browns have five players in the top 100 and are supposed to have one of the most dominant pash rushers in the league. 3-7.

--It's important to be competitive at all times, even if you are missing your star QB. It's a culture and expectation thing. What if Watson gets hurt in week 1 next year? Does that give Stefanski another pass for a 3-14 season? Come on people, expect more. When do the excuses stop?

--The Bills made 50 yd FGs look routine. The Browns cannot execute a 32 yd FG. When do the excuses stop? Are we really waiting for Watson to fix the culture, lack of leadership, and poor coaching that is plaguing this team?

--Is Jeff Saturday a better coach than Stefanski?


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I thought we played really well up until the fumble. Then they just outplayed us. The wildcat play was stupid. Having Jacoby sneak it twice was stupid. I stopped watching in the 3rd. Seen this movie before.


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Same crap different Sunday. First drive is perfect, then wheels fall off the remaining of the game.


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I just find it amazing that we won 8 games last year with an injured QB and this year albeit with a different QB we have essentially the same people and yet we stink.


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The game went about how I expected it to go.... We lost.

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Against an easier schedule this year as well.

It's Stefanski regressing to the mean.

I just don't know how much farther he has to go to get to his mean.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Andrew Berry
Kev Stefanski


That’s all.

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I thought we would have something to look forward to with Watson returning in a couple of weeks but no.

You can't win many games getting gashed up the middle for 10 to 20 yard gains on a consistent basis.

With a depeleted amount of draft picks, and salary cap space in the coming years. There is nothing to look forward to at all, unless you enjoy being miserable.

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Bottom line this isn’t the staff that’s going to take the next step. Until Haslam stops pretending he cares about winning and actually does, it won’t change. It’s time for the fans to stop supporting this team. That’s the language of change. Not a single person on this staff should be retained. They have all been tuned out. Time to trade Garrett and ward and maybe recoup some of these picks Berry gave away like Oprah. Get a football guy making the picks again


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- Browns scored their obligatory TD on the opening drive and the offense fizzled until the game was out of reach.

- The Browns gave up 25 unanswered points between the 2nd and early 4th quarter.

- The defense played well early and eventually caved in as is par for the course.

- Special Teams continues to be hysterically bad. I'm certain Priefer will be back next year if Stefanski is back as well.

- At no point did I think the Browns even had remote chance of winning this game.

- The Browns come across as a rudderless ship just drifting away at sea.

- I see a collection of individuals, but not a team.

- DPJ never gets separation but catches everything thrown his way. A bright spot.

- Finally heard Clowney's name called.

- There are still seven more opportunities to slog through.

- The Browns is the Browns.

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One of the biggest problems is the Browns do not have any DOGS on this team!! There are no leaders, NO guys that have some fight in them. Today, the D did not collapse but the offense left so many opportunities slide by its not funny!!. IF we had some players that put everything on the line, you would atleast see a team that plays hard. But they dont... and that is a reflection of the coach. THe glaring holes that were seen in the off season are biting us. But the lack of leadership and flat out playing with fire is on Stefanski.

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The Browns problem is they don't have any leadership throughout the organization.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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can they go better than two and five? in the final zeven

Nick Harriz iz too zmall to be a ztarter in the league?


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Originally Posted by DogNDC
One of the biggest problems is the Browns do not have any DOGS on this team!! There are no leaders, NO guys that have some fight in them. Today, the D did not collapse but the offense left so many opportunities slide by its not funny!!. IF we had some players that put everything on the line, you would atleast see a team that plays hard. But they dont... and that is a reflection of the coach. THe glaring holes that were seen in the off season are biting us. But the lack of leadership and flat out playing with fire is on Stefanski.
Was watching a video on YouTube last night. Hanford Dixon was on Bernie’s show and he said literally the exact same thing. This team is way too young to police themselves and the pathetic coaching isnt steering them either. No reason at all to watch or support this garbage any further.


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Browns fans still waiting to witness the "sustainable winning" that was touted.

[Linked Image from media.tenor.com]

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The Browns cannot overcome adversity or a blown lead. 2 consecutive dropped passes by TE for TDs, bad snap fumble then stupid consecutive stuffed QB sneaks and they pack it in. They truly are a team that plays with no passion.

The sad part is, nothing is being done. The DTs are lowest rated in the entire NFL yet they are seen as good enough starters by the organization. Another blown TD in a wide open Diggs who went unguarded and Safeties once again looking at each other with dumbfounded expressions on their faces.

Brisket has been playing very well. Way better than most thought. Issue is, you take Chubb away from him and his is just plain ordinary. He has been playing better than our record but he Defense and Special Teams have been downright pathetic.

A previous poster nailed it. We have a bunch of individuals and no Team. Lots of player and coach turnover next year. Too bad we will sturggle to win any more games and miss out on a Top 5 or Top 10 draft pick.

It's really sad we have wasted another year of Garrett, Chubb, Hunt, Njoku Teller, Bitonio and Conklin's careers.


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When you punt the ball for net fifteen yardz, itz like a turnover on your own end of the field.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Their slogan was no bark all bite. They have neither. This defense is soft and is not accountable for their lackluster effort. Same thing we have been watching for decades.


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If we can just hire a new (good) DC and develop a strong D, this team will be on fire!!


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Just listened to Stefanski's presser. The guy is completely clueless. His new phrase is "they're a good football team".

He also actually said "we have to finish football games". There was nothing to finish. You were getting demolished the entire game.

The Browns are so screwed if we move forward with him next year.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'll add that there is a common theme with Baker and Stefanski. The Browns are always so bad that the fans fall in love with any guy that comes in and has a little bit of success, even if that success was a flash in the pan and they are unable to sustain it. We are getting the same type of excuses for a poor head coach that we got for a poor QB - it's everybody else's fault. Well, it's not. They are just bad at their job. There's no mystery here. There's no deeper explanation.

Remove the emotion. Trust your eyes. Expect more.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Just listened to Stefanski's presser. The guy is completely clueless. His new phrase is "they're a good football team".

He also actually said "we have to finish football games". There was nothing to finish. You were getting demolished the entire game.

The Browns are so screwed if we move forward with him next year.

Stefanski does not get how to LEAD MEN!!.. Sure, he knows how to draw up plays, keep the schedule of the week, watch film.. but he does not know how the MOTIVATE THE TEAM to perform above their own levels!!! DO you think anyone on that team is motivated past the 1st qtr?? You can see how the team folds when adversity hits. Stefanski does not know how to rally the team... The Browns fold and stay folded!!... They dont hit back! And that is on Stefanski.

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Originally Posted by DogNDC
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Just listened to Stefanski's presser. The guy is completely clueless. His new phrase is "they're a good football team".

He also actually said "we have to finish football games". There was nothing to finish. You were getting demolished the entire game.

The Browns are so screwed if we move forward with him next year.

Stefanski does not get how to LEAD MEN!!.. Sure, he knows how to draw up plays, keep the schedule of the week, watch film.. but he does not know how the MOTIVATE THE TEAM to perform above their own levels!!! DO you think anyone on that team is motivated past the 1st qtr?? You can see how the team folds when adversity hits. Stefanski does not know how to rally the team... The Browns fold and stay folded!!... They dont hit back! And that is on Stefanski.

This is pretty obvious, but apparently the players are supposed to motivate themselves. Stefanski is just there, like you said, to make the schedule.

The players had yet another players only meeting this past week. They were probably laughing at their coaches. The announcers quoted Stefanski as saying that the players only meeting would get more accomplished than them listening to their coaches. I almost spit out my drink just typing that. Instead of seeing that for the symptom it is - that him and his staff aren't getting the job done - he's hoping they get some good work done.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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What a mess.


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Originally Posted by Milk Man
What a mess.



Is he throwing Woods under the bus here or some of his defensive teammates? Or, does it matter? Confusion,, complacency and finger pointing. Yikes.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
What a mess.


But the offense!!!!

What a joke.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Deshaun is a top 5 qb
With 8 all pros on offense we should go 6 wins no losses.
It is pretty clear when you ad in Deshaun's 116 qb rating
With a top 5 offense then we should beat everyone.
Stefanski is coach of the year
Delpit excellent draft pick
Newsome excellent draft pick
Emerson ready to line up 1on1 verses all wr
Not Browns are on a pace to surrender a pick that is better then Deshaun.
Ha ha Berry this is the team you wanted.

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Wake me up when Stefanski can come up with a new cliche in his Presser.
I wonder what the Stefanski fan club is saying now

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Looks like we are back to the old Browns ways of not playing meaningful games in mid November and December. When does the 2023 Training Camp start?

Also, has Deion Jones done much of anything? I rarely hear his name called.


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Myles makes it sound how soft Woods is when he says that there is no importance in practice

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I'll add that there is a common theme with Baker and Stefanski. The Browns are always so bad that the fans fall in love with any guy that comes in and has a little bit of success, even if that success was a flash in the pan and they are unable to sustain it. We are getting the same type of excuses for a poor head coach that we got for a poor QB - it's everybody else's fault. Well, it's not. They are just bad at their job. There's no mystery here. There's no deeper explanation.

Remove the emotion. Trust your eyes. Expect more.
Kinda what I’ve been saying all year. Stop accepting mediocre just because you had horrible for so long. The goal should be to win consistent. It’s been proving if you have the right staff you see that immediately. My only fear is haslam only half-asses the house cleaning. It needs to be everyone, Berry, woods, stefanski and Priefer. I would also get rid of Depo too.


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They truly are a team that plays with no passion.

This right here. I'm watching the steelers, they've made one blunder after another this game, but they come right back out fired up and ready to play. Our D comes out after a mistake with that same dazed, aloof demeanor their coach has.....and everybody watching knows we're done.


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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I'd appreciate it if we kept this thread to griping. If we have any Xs and Os talk, I will start another thread to get back to griping.

Who made you King (or Queen in your case) of the board?

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Originally Posted by SuperBrown
Originally Posted by Rishuz
I'd appreciate it if we kept this thread to griping. If we have any Xs and Os talk, I will start another thread to get back to griping.

Who made you King (or Queen in your case) of the board?

I have this 'gut feeling' what you quoted was irony.

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Originally Posted by DeisleDawg




Myles makes it sound how soft Woods is when he says that there is no importance in practice

We consistently have the highest amount of players on the Injury report "resting" during the week. I bring it up every week. Here we sit 3-7.


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Agreed.

Also, when I see "practice" video, it's guys going half speed. I don't know the rules, laws, whatever. But 'practice' seems like day care to me.

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Brissett threw for 350 yards and 3 TDs (or whatever it was) and we lost handily. The problem isn’t the QB (sure, Watson will be a bit better) but our defense and special teams are atrocious


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Myles gist: We have not been eliminated from the postseason, we still have a path.


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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Brissett threw for 350 yards and 3 TDs (or whatever it was) and we lost handily. The problem isn’t the QB (sure, Watson will be a bit better) but our defense and special teams are atrocious

QB wasn't the problem before either. Some of us, who aren't football gurus, called this crap before the season started. I love my Browns, but this entire year has been a huge disappointment for me from them, starting with the trade.

And no, after seeing Baker play in Carolina, I don't think he's even close to DW's past play. But what will he play like now? Guess we'll know in two weeks. But I never thought Baker was the issue. The issue last year beyond Baker being injured was 1) Woods, 2) OBJ, 3) the team split after OBJ and I think SKI gave up on Baker. This is the only reason I think I would play an injured "franchise" QB the way we did. And I know some guys will come along spewing the DW is god and Baker never was a starter crap and they can say what they want but Baker wasn't 'THE' problem and never was.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/20/22 09:32 PM.

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Originally Posted by jfanent
Quote
They truly are a team that plays with no passion.

This right here. I'm watching the steelers, they've made one blunder after another this game, but they come right back out fired up and ready to play. Our D comes out after a mistake with that same dazed, aloof demeanor their coach has.....and everybody watching knows we're done.
Which is why this is a coaching problem as much as anything. Or in addition to other things if you prefer.

Last edited by mgh888; 11/20/22 09:42 PM.

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And since I brought up Baker, as bad as he's played this year, I'd take odds and bet he's in a Super Bowl before the Browns. Here's why: A the end of this season he will be an FA top-tier backup. This means he will probably get a spot on a very good team making a run. But we will still have whatever problem this is with coaching and a team that's been through too much losing. Hell, he may bounce around the league for years and still make a Super Bowl before us. That's worth a bet with payoff odds in your favor, 10-to-1-ish odds.

And if Baker were to ride the pine a year or two behind a Brady or a Rodgers could fix Baker too.

Last edited by OldColdDawg; 11/20/22 10:04 PM.

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Losing takes its toll


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by leadtheway
Originally Posted by Rishuz
I'll add that there is a common theme with Baker and Stefanski. The Browns are always so bad that the fans fall in love with any guy that comes in and has a little bit of success, even if that success was a flash in the pan and they are unable to sustain it. We are getting the same type of excuses for a poor head coach that we got for a poor QB - it's everybody else's fault. Well, it's not. They are just bad at their job. There's no mystery here. There's no deeper explanation.

Remove the emotion. Trust your eyes. Expect more.
Kinda what I’ve been saying all year. Stop accepting mediocre just because you had horrible for so long. The goal should be to win consistent. It’s been proving if you have the right staff you see that immediately. My only fear is haslam only half-asses the house cleaning. It needs to be everyone, Berry, woods, stefanski and Priefer. I would also get rid of Depo too.

Depo has too much influence. I'm afraid the Browns will never be able to attract the right staff and the right structure with him around.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Agreed.

Also, when I see "practice" video, it's guys going half speed. I don't know the rules, laws, whatever. But 'practice' seems like day care to me.

So is all of training camp.


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Originally Posted by AZBrown
Originally Posted by Milk Man
What a mess.



Is he throwing Woods under the bus here or some of his defensive teammates? Or, does it matter? Confusion,, complacency and finger pointing. Yikes.

It just doesn't matter anymore at this point. It's all just a mess, slogging along to the finish line.

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Originally Posted by DaveyD
Also, has Deion Jones done much of anything? I rarely hear his name called.

He's been terrible. A liability when hes on the field. I believe Tony Fields took his spot on the field at one point.

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This team is acting like the sinking ship it is. It’s time to clean house


Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by leadtheway
Originally Posted by Rishuz
I'll add that there is a common theme with Baker and Stefanski. The Browns are always so bad that the fans fall in love with any guy that comes in and has a little bit of success, even if that success was a flash in the pan and they are unable to sustain it. We are getting the same type of excuses for a poor head coach that we got for a poor QB - it's everybody else's fault. Well, it's not. They are just bad at their job. There's no mystery here. There's no deeper explanation.

Remove the emotion. Trust your eyes. Expect more.
Kinda what I’ve been saying all year. Stop accepting mediocre just because you had horrible for so long. The goal should be to win consistent. It’s been proving if you have the right staff you see that immediately. My only fear is haslam only half-asses the house cleaning. It needs to be everyone, Berry, woods, stefanski and Priefer. I would also get rid of Depo too.

Depo has too much influence. I'm afraid the Browns will never be able to attract the right staff and the right structure with him around.

I'm not, DePodesta is the boogeyman, guy, but I do believe your claim has some merit, Rish. We saw it play out when Stefanski wanted to work with George Paton as the GM.

Flown in from Minnesota on the Haslams’ private jet, Paton headed back home Wednesday night with some reservations about the organizational structure and his role. Although he would’ve had final say over the roster, he was still working through some things when he picked up the phone on Friday afternoon to inform the Browns he was out.

Berry, who left the Browns in February to join the Eagles, is also on the radar of the Carolina Panthers, who requested permission to interview him for their Executive Vice President of Football Operations job. The Eagles haven’t granted permission because the position doesn’t include final say over the roster, but it could possibly be revisited after the NFL Draft in April.

A favorite of Browns owner Jimmy Haslam and Chief Strategy Officer Paul DePodesta, Berry interviewed Jan. 17 at Browns headquarters, as did Patriots Director of College Scouting Monti Ossenfort.

One source told cleveland.com that Browns coach Kevin Stefanski wanted Paton “in the worst way’’ because of their 13-year history in Minnesota, where they helped the team to six playoff campaigns and two NFC title games in that span.

But Stefanski also really likes Berry, with whom he hit it off during the coaching search last year, when he was passed over for the job by former GM John Dorsey in favor of Freddie Kitchens. Stefanski, favored by Berry and DePodesta during last year’s search, was eager to work with Berry last year and that hasn’t changed, a source said. They’re also both Ivy-Leaguers like DePodesta, and would provide Jimmy Haslam with the organizational alignment he’s been seeking since he took over in 2012.

It was the Browns’ desire to bring Berry back into the fold that almost caused Paton to turn down the interview in the first place. The career-long right-hand man of Vikings GM Rick Spielman, Paton is a sought-after GM candidate who’s turned down many opportunities to interview over the years, including multiple requests from the Jets and one from the Dolphins.

Paton was a finalist for the 49ers GM job in 2017 that went to John Lynch, and was one of six candidates to interview for the Colts job that went to Chris Ballard in 2017.

The Browns’ job just wasn’t a fit, even though he enjoyed his two interviews and was intrigued by the prospect of being reunited with Stefanski. That was the reason he accepted the initial interview on Jan. 18 in the first place. Working with his longtime colleague would’ve been akin to hiring his own coach. But the Browns’ job comes with challenges, as has been widely documented.

Paton would’ve been the sixth Browns general manager since the Haslams took over in 2012. With as many as a half-dozen GM jobs possibly coming open over the next year, Paton could have numerous opportunities to write his own ticket.

In Cleveland, he would’ve had to work within the organizational framework of DePodesta, himself and Stefanski all reporting to ownership, which includes Jimmy and Dee Haslam and their son-in-law JW Johnson, Executive Vice President of the team.


https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...-andrew-berry-the-leading-candidate.html

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Originally Posted by Milk Man
In Cleveland, he would’ve had to work within the organizational framework of DePodesta, himself and Stefanski all reporting to ownership, which includes Jimmy and Dee Haslam and their son-in-law JW Johnson, Executive Vice President of the team.

And here is what it ultimately boils down to, every key personnel reports to three people that have not a clue on how to run a successful NFL franchise. This is why many say the Browns will never win under a Haslam ownership. JW should be tasked with filling candy dishes and picking weekly uniform combos and absolutely nothing more. Jimmy and Dee are just guessing with their fingers crossed while throwing money at the problem.

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Oof. Myles basically calling out coaching two years in a row now. Between this, Delpit’s comment and others throughout the year, the coaching staff (defensive) appears to have lost the locker room.

I expect frustrations to continue to boil over and get louder.


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Myles Garrett is a former #1 overall pick and considered by most lists to be a top 10 player in the NFL. In six seasons he will have made the playoffs once. I hope Myles gets mad. I hope he keeps speaking out. Someone in the Browns organization needs to act like they actually care about what is happening. Stefanski is a lost cause. You can't be incompetent and care at the same time because you don't possess the ability to do anything about it. Berry is looking worse and worse with each passing game and his idiotic "opportunities" speech he's given the last two seasons. The players have to police themselves. But it doesn't really matter. It's too late. Another wasted friggin season. Another 10 month wait where you hope it will be different next season. What a joke. The entire franchise.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I am open to anything, but just a few general thoughts.

I don't think we need to replace Stefanski. The O isn't the problem and we seem to have a set-up of he runs the O and makes the administrative decisions and the D coordinator is over the D. In that set-up, we need a new defensive coordinator. Woods isn't the guy.

I don't think Depo has as much influence as some fear. He has influence no doubt, but not on the on field stuff. I think overall he is an asset to the team.

Priefer, hard to say. He may just be strapped with bad leftovers to work with, but he also needs to be replaced. To me, that is a coaching position where you need some fire in the belly. My take may be totally wrong, but ST coordinator is a stepping stone position IMO. That is the first step a younger coach stays to get their shot at being a coordinator. To me, it isn't a job you stay in for life. You move up or you move out.

I think maybe Callie would be good for the job and move Preifer out or make him special assistant to the head coach. He is the guy Stefanski turned over the acting head coach reins, so if Stefanski likes him, let him keep him.

As for Berry, I think he may be the problem. We seem to have more misses than hits in the draft, and his picks are somewhat the same player type especially on D. He is pretty good at selecting D-backs, but after that we seem to select a lot of hybrid players who aren't all that good.


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We have multiple players referencing the team not knowing what their assignments are and/or not focusing enough in practice. Not good


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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j/c:

#FreeTheD


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J/c

It's all good, the self-appointed board football guru said All this locker room interaction is a positive thing. Stefanski is great, woods defense is great and his scheme is great. As recently as last week we had confirmation that the scheme is in great shape.

Nothing to see here. Move along. Ignore the record. Everything will be fine once Watson and arrives.

Last edited by mgh888; 11/21/22 09:37 AM.

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In fact, everything is in such great shape. That will have a new thread started soon to talk about the great football that we saw as opposed to wallowing in our complaints and self-pity. Thank goodness


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We really need to extend stefanski.
He has gone from being a 12 win coach to 3.
The problem is he really needs to have a hole year with leshaun
Then this team will be the most talented team in the Afc.

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Originally Posted by mgh888
In fact, everything is in such great shape. That will have a new thread started soon to talk about the great football that we saw as opposed to wallowing in our complaints and self-pity. Thank goodness
Nailed it. You posted this ^ at 8:38. That thread you mentioned? Posted at 9:03.

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Only 1-31 and the inaugural season in '99 were worse. Impressive stuff!


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Originally Posted by Milk Man
Only 1-31 and the inaugural season in '99 were worse. Impressive stuff!


But nothing wrong with the coaching or the scheme !! PHEW - for a moment I thought the Browns were in trouble!


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j/c:



I was waiting to see these grades and it came through what I saw yesterday. Teller was awful all around. This might have been his worst game ever as a Browns. I get it....Buffalo is really good, but man, he played poorly.


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We got our first zero point zero! OL has been bullied the last two weeks.

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It really has but they've also been dinged up quite a bit.


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Today's presser with Stefanski...






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As the ship sinks the stitching is unraveling on the life raft.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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j/c:

In an alternate sort of placating universe I guess he could have said that the jig is up, Woods stinks,, the players are out of control, I'm losing my mind, Watson may not make a difference, I may lose my job, I don't trust Berry or Dee Haslam and, furthermore, I hate all of you.

Now, one or two of things might have been true.

But in reality, what was he supposed to say?

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Unfortunately, Watson cannot Coach, play Defense or Special Teams. He won't change anything until 2023.


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Originally Posted by Milk Man
We got our first zero point zero!

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through Life, son.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
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I was waiting to see these grades and it came through what I saw yesterday. Teller was awful all around. This might have been his worst game ever as a Browns. I get it....Buffalo is really good, but man, he played poorly.

Thanks, I was beginning to think no one else noticed, but I though Froholt was worse at blocking and Conklin just wasn't himself. He later left the game. I also noticed a few times Buffalo would blitz by lining up across from our slot receiver
and get by untouched.

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Clearly, Froholdt had a bad game. I think his last one was a bad one too. But it's all relative with my comment. Based on the expectations for Teller as opposed to a backup guard playing center, I think the more egregious performance should go to Teller.


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j/c:



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j/c:

Teller was not moving as well as normal. It's safe to assume that the calf injury is still bothering him. He's one of the very best guards in football.

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Originally Posted by Milk Man

PHEW !! All will be well then.


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Stefanski asked if he’s thought about a DC change: “My focus is on us getting better.”


Is it me - or does it seem like KS has said that a whole bunch of times - I mean like dozens and dozens of times. And yet, unless I missed something - no improvement has been seen.
Hmmmmm 🤔


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
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Great head coaching performance by KS. Yay.


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
Clearly, Froholdt had a bad game. I think his last one was a bad one too. But it's all relative with my comment. Based on the expectations for Teller as opposed to a backup guard playing center, I think the more egregious performance should go to Teller.

It is clear he isn't a center and clear how much the team needs Pocic.


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j/c

After all these years it amazes me how people equate press conferences to some meaningful information where one can interpret a response one way or another and justify their own bias and extreme stance on a situation.


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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c

After all these years it amazes me how people equate press conferences to some meaningful information where one can interpret a response one way or another and justify their own bias and extreme stance on a situation.

Stefanski is trying his best to imitate Bill Belichick giving very vague answers and falling back to Belichickesque "We have to get better" and "We are focusing on next week". Sorry man, he has not earned that right yet. Bill Belichick teams DO get "better". What has this Team done to get better in the past 7 weeks? Where is the accountability Stefanski has consistently preached? How about actually doing something instead of just hiding behind those pisspoor statements. Enough already.


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It's always amazed me how people make fun of head coaches for giving generic answers to questions. Do they want him to throw others under the bus like Hue did? Do they want him to scream and say I am benching so and so? Do they want him to say that we suck? Pass the buck to his assistant coaches. The answers are meaningless and everyone who has a brain should know that. It's more of people inventing reasons to trash a coach.

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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c

After all these years it amazes me how people equate press conferences to some meaningful information where one can interpret a response one way or another and justify their own bias and extreme stance on a situation.



Memphis, Why are there press conferences then ?


I believe it is just a way to keep a connection between teams and fans

Human nature people want to know

Your thought is a conference is meaningless and that's a good view

Others feel or need to hear why the outcome was the way it turned out

That may mean something for some nothing wrong with someone

who spends time and money on something and would like to know

why things are bad and want to hear why.

You have $500,000.00 in an investment and it's losing money

and the investor in charge gives you the same answer time

after time and your money keeps losing and not growing

You want a better answer than, give it time ?

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Originally Posted by DaveyD
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c

After all these years it amazes me how people equate press conferences to some meaningful information where one can interpret a response one way or another and justify their own bias and extreme stance on a situation.

Stefanski is trying his best to imitate Bill Belichick giving very vague answers and falling back to Belichickesque "We have to get better" and "We are focusing on next week". Sorry man, he has not earned that right yet. Bill Belichick teams DO get "better". What has this Team done to get better in the past 7 weeks? Where is the accountability Stefanski has consistently preached? How about actually doing something instead of just hiding behind those pisspoor statements. Enough already.


Not sure your age, when Bill was a HC in Cleveland he gave the same answers as a rookie HC

As of his years as a HC in NE

Nothing has changed

Bill is Bill, had nothing to do with his win loss record

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
It's always amazed me how people make fun of head coaches for giving generic answers to questions. Do they want him to throw others under the bus like Hue did? Do they want him to scream and say I am benching so and so? Do they want him to say that we suck? Pass the buck to his assistant coaches. The answers are meaningless and everyone who has a brain should know that. It's more of people inventing reasons to trash a coach.

I want him to say he sucks. I want him to say his team is bad and he's a bad coach.

Just be honest. It's not that difficult. His new thing now is just to say how good the other team is. What a clown.

The absolute worst thing this franchise does is baby players and coaches and hold no one accountable. They are going to make Woods the scapegoat for Stefanski's incompetence. He's not going to learn. He's not going to grow. He's going to say "not my fault...it was my DC."

This team is just a joke all the way around. From Haslam all the way down to player 53. The fans deserve better than this big pile of steaming crap. We deserve better than Kevin Stefanski.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
It's always amazed me how people make fun of head coaches for giving generic answers to questions. Do they want him to throw others under the bus like Hue did? Do they want him to scream and say I am benching so and so? Do they want him to say that we suck? Pass the buck to his assistant coaches. The answers are meaningless and everyone who has a brain should know that. It's more of people inventing reasons to trash a coach.

I don't know if it is inventing reasons to trash a coach, but it is allowing emotions to rule and distort their thinking process.

I have always thought that it is important to allow people to save face. Firing people mid season isn't doing that. It is pretty clear that Woods is gone after the season. Probably soon after.


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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
It's always amazed me how people make fun of head coaches for giving generic answers to questions. Do they want him to throw others under the bus like Hue did? Do they want him to scream and say I am benching so and so? Do they want him to say that we suck? Pass the buck to his assistant coaches. The answers are meaningless and everyone who has a brain should know that. It's more of people inventing reasons to trash a coach.

I want him to say he sucks. I want him to say his team is bad and he's a bad coach.

Just be honest. It's not that difficult. His new thing now is just to say how good the other team is. What a clown.

The absolute worst thing this franchise does is baby players and coaches and hold no one accountable. They are going to make Woods the scapegoat for Stefanski's incompetence. He's not going to learn. He's not going to grow. He's going to say "not my fault...it was my DC."


This team is just a joke all the way around. From Haslam all the way down to player 53. The fans deserve better than this big pile of steaming crap. We deserve better than Kevin Stefanski.

That is where your thinking is off. What do we as fans deserve? The only thing we deserve is for the team to show up and play the game as scheduled.

Seriously, that is all we deserve.


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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
It's always amazed me how people make fun of head coaches for giving generic answers to questions. Do they want him to throw others under the bus like Hue did? Do they want him to scream and say I am benching so and so? Do they want him to say that we suck? Pass the buck to his assistant coaches. The answers are meaningless and everyone who has a brain should know that. It's more of people inventing reasons to trash a coach.

I want him to say he sucks. I want him to say his team is bad and he's a bad coach.

Just be honest. It's not that difficult. His new thing now is just to say how good the other team is. What a clown.

The absolute worst thing this franchise does is baby players and coaches and hold no one accountable. They are going to make Woods the scapegoat for Stefanski's incompetence. He's not going to learn. He's not going to grow. He's going to say "not my fault...it was my DC."

This team is just a joke all the way around. From Haslam all the way down to player 53. The fans deserve better than this big pile of steaming crap. We deserve better than Kevin Stefanski.

Can you please post all the quotes from the losing team's press conferences where the HC made comments like the ones you "want?"

You are piling on. That's your right. It's also my right to call BS when I see it. Coaches don't do that. Period.

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Hudson really got a Blutarsky!! (ZERO POINT ZERO)


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
It's always amazed me how people make fun of head coaches for giving generic answers to questions. Do they want him to throw others under the bus like Hue did? Do they want him to scream and say I am benching so and so? Do they want him to say that we suck? Pass the buck to his assistant coaches. The answers are meaningless and everyone who has a brain should know that. It's more of people inventing reasons to trash a coach.

I want him to say he sucks. I want him to say his team is bad and he's a bad coach.

Just be honest. It's not that difficult. His new thing now is just to say how good the other team is. What a clown.

The absolute worst thing this franchise does is baby players and coaches and hold no one accountable. They are going to make Woods the scapegoat for Stefanski's incompetence. He's not going to learn. He's not going to grow. He's going to say "not my fault...it was my DC."


This team is just a joke all the way around. From Haslam all the way down to player 53. The fans deserve better than this big pile of steaming crap. We deserve better than Kevin Stefanski.

That is where your thinking is off. What do we as fans deserve? The only thing we deserve is for the team to show up and play the game as scheduled.

Seriously, that is all we deserve.

This is an interesting take and maybe a perspective I should adopt so I can stop getting so pissed off. But then what's the point of being a fan? If we should be that emotionless about it, why watch? Why care? What would be the point?

Btw, I think the Browns organization feels the way you described about the fans. Their only obligation is to show up as scheduled on game day. That much is pretty clear.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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There is a difference between deserving something and wanting something to happen.

I want a Superbowl win as much as you, but I don't deserve one because I choose to buy season tickets.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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This feels like a therapy session and honestly I feel better.

That and the bet I'm making on the Bucs this weekend will go a long way toward changing my mood moving forward.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I'm a bit torn on this weeks game.

As I have lived in South Florida for 30+ years now, and I adopted Tampa as my second team (since they were not in the AFC, versus picking Miami). And as the laughable years of Browns football continued, I more and more looked toward Tampa as the team to watch (also helps they are on TV more regularly here).

So if I did even drop my allegiance to the Browns, it would be for Tampa.

And much like Cleveland, I bet Tampa in Vegas every year post Superbowl for the next year (did awesome 2 years ago when I got Tampa at 60:1 before Brady signed =) )


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Originally Posted by FloridaFan
I'm a bit torn on this weeks game.

As I have lived in South Florida for 30+ years now, and I adopted Tampa as my second team (since they were not in the AFC, versus picking Miami). And as the laughable years of Browns football continued, I more and more looked toward Tampa as the team to watch (also helps they are on TV more regularly here).

So if I did even drop my allegiance to the Browns, it would be for Tampa.

And much like Cleveland, I bet Tampa in Vegas every year post Superbowl for the next year (did awesome 2 years ago when I got Tampa at 60:1 before Brady signed =) )


I mean absolutely no disrespect by asking this, and I'm not being snarky, but:

How can any Browns fan have a "second team"?

I've read and heard of this strange phenomenon (sometimes on this board, sometimes from friends -even in Ohio), but I never got it. To an extent, I get it in regards to college football - the alma mater thing, etc. But for the Browns, it's a mystifying thing to me.

Even as bad as we have been since The Return and the boneheaded decisions we have made along the way, I never considered watching, rooting for the NFC Cardinals or even following their progress. Again, believe me, I'm not being confrontational. I just never could figure it out. But, then again, I didn't watch a pro football game between '96 and '98.

Maybe it's just me.

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Everyone is different. There's nothing wrong w/your viewpoint, but others are not wired that way. Personally, I just love football. I watch as many games as possible because I enjoy the game itself. Rooting for a team is fun, but who cares what team you root for? Is someone a better person because he/she roots for one particular team? My wife is a Steelers fan. She had season tix to their games when we met. I had season tickets to the Browns game. We engage in a friendly banter all year long, but choosing one team over another means nothing.

I watch the games because they are entertaining. It's a nice escape from the issues and problems that occur daily in real life. I get mad at times during the game, but afterwards, I let it go. It's a freaking game. I really can't understand how some folks let the results of a football game where people are either making millions or billions affect their daily lives. All the drama on here is amusing and irritating at the same time.

Bottom line, it's a game and if it gets to the point of not being enjoyable any longer, I will simply stop watching rather than let it affect my mood past game day.

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I think it's just acclimation.

I've been to several Tampa games, been to several Miami games as well, but Tampa struck me differently. They were a team in disfunction for many years.

I had a second teams years ago, I was a Raiders fan. My mom and my aunt worked at Millers in Avon and Lyle Alzado came in there when I was there doing homework after school, had to be 8 or 9. He was so cool and nice to me, that I instantly became a fan, so when he went to the Raiders, I became a fan of them.

As Vers said, football is an escape, it's entertainment to me. I am sad when the Browns lose, but it has no affect on my life. I know people who just carry an anger after a Cleveland loss for days. I just can't live that way.


We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Fair enough.

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Besides the Browns, there's only 1 team I'll watch and root for, unless they're playing the Browns.

The Buffalo Bills.

Ralph Wilson was extremely instrumental in Cleveland getting their franchise back in 1999.


Let this sink in..... On 12-31-23 it be will 123123.
On the flip side, you can tune a piano but you can't tune-a-fish.


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j/c

I think expecting Stefanski to come out in public and say much more than he is saying at PC's is an absurd notion.

Corporations and even families do not air their dirty laundry in public unless it's that guy in a muscle shirt we used to see on Cops. Such issues are handled internally. Could he say he's going to study the tape and hold players more accountable? Could he say the defense is letting the team down? Yes, he could say those things. But why would he want to do that or why would that be wise?

It wouldn't. Airing such things can only create more division. And as we can see by the public comments from some players there seems to be enough of that starting to fester without adding fuel to the fire.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I think my post-game comment for the rest of this year will read: Doesn't matter, the season's over.


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Originally Posted by OldColdDawg
I think my post-game comment for the rest of this year will read: Doesn't matter, the season's over.

The season has BEEN over. What universe are you living in???????????????????????

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The one where we don't feed the trolls.


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Originally Posted by FloridaFan
I think it's just acclimation.

I've been to several Tampa games, been to several Miami games as well, but Tampa struck me differently. They were a team in disfunction for many years.

I had a second teams years ago, I was a Raiders fan. My mom and my aunt worked at Millers in Avon and Lyle Alzado came in there when I was there doing homework after school, had to be 8 or 9. He was so cool and nice to me, that I instantly became a fan, so when he went to the Raiders, I became a fan of them.

As Vers said, football is an escape, it's entertainment to me. I am sad when the Browns lose, but it has no affect on my life. I know people who just carry an anger after a Cleveland loss for days. I just can't live that way.


very good post !

Thanks for sharing that.

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
j/c

I think expecting Stefanski to come out in public and say much more than he is saying at PC's is an absurd notion.

Corporations and even families do not air their dirty laundry in public unless it's that guy in a muscle shirt we used to see on Cops. Such issues are handled internally. Could he say he's going to study the tape and hold players more accountable? Could he say the defense is letting the team down? Yes, he could say those things. But why would he want to do that or why would that be wise?

It wouldn't. Airing such things can only create more division. And as we can see by the public comments from some players there seems to be enough of that starting to fester without adding fuel to the fire.


well said Mr Pit !

smile

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Originally Posted by AZBrown
Originally Posted by FloridaFan
I'm a bit torn on this weeks game.

As I have lived in South Florida for 30+ years now, and I adopted Tampa as my second team (since they were not in the AFC, versus picking Miami). And as the laughable years of Browns football continued, I more and more looked toward Tampa as the team to watch (also helps they are on TV more regularly here).

So if I did even drop my allegiance to the Browns, it would be for Tampa.

And much like Cleveland, I bet Tampa in Vegas every year post Superbowl for the next year (did awesome 2 years ago when I got Tampa at 60:1 before Brady signed =) )


I mean absolutely no disrespect by asking this, and I'm not being snarky, but:

How can any Browns fan have a "second team"?

I've read and heard of this strange phenomenon (sometimes on this board, sometimes from friends -even in Ohio), but I never got it. To an extent, I get it in regards to college football - the alma mater thing, etc. But for the Browns, it's a mystifying thing to me.

Even as bad as we have been since The Return and the boneheaded decisions we have made along the way, I never considered watching, rooting for the NFC Cardinals or even following their progress. Again, believe me, I'm not being confrontational. I just never could figure it out. But, then again, I didn't watch a pro football game between '96 and '98.

Maybe it's just me.


Growing up in the 60's and on

I grew up with the Pro Football Hall Of Fame four streets over from my house

I have told this story before.

My friends and I would visit it often, back then it was new so the 70's besides

ty dye and flared jeans football was awesome, watching players with huge shoulder pads that

were at least three feet wide lol ! forearm pads thigh pads neck pads etc etc just the look back then

We loved going in and looking at helmets . the Patriots was a cool helmet , Alan Page was my sisters friend and he would visit

My cousin was a WR for the Lions in the mid 70's

I liked the Chiefs because as a RB kids would say I ran like Ed Podolak, I liked the Vikings because of Alan Page and the purple curtain, The lions because my Cousin played for them.

I like football, I love the Browns, But liking another team is okay because it's about the game for me.

Will I root for another team playing against the Browns ? Nope !

Do you watch other games other than the Browns ? If so

Hope you don't mind me saying you do, if you do

Between the other two teams playing, is there one who you root for ?

I know I do

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