DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Woods and the Defense

Blaming the fact that 2 of 3 really good receivers didn't play as the reason for the failures of our defensive backfield.......that's creative if anything.

Imagine if Chase went out -- we would have lost by 30!

So is he saying that the injuries of the Bengals WR's gave the Browns such a huge advantage in defending the pass that they had no idea what to do with that?

"Chase is out? What do you mean Chase is out now?!?"

What
I heard it was the waterboy he brought the wrong type
Of gatorade

Fireable statement. I guess the analytics dept didn't account for that on the play sheet. Or this guy is an idiot and part of the problem all year. smfh

So, the original game plan was to let J'MC run free all over our secondary. These other two would have made it worse. And we certainly played stupid D all day in the secondary. Plenty of blame. This is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Agreed. My God, no wonder the secondary has been so bad. Shouldn't Joe Woods have put his .02 cents in when those 2 WR's went out. Our D may need more than 1 or 2 changes. I'd like to see a guy that has a D philosophy like Rex Ryan here. Rex wouldn't do because of his personality and probable desire to be the HC which I wouldn't want to see.

How can anyone read this and support Stefanski? This is his team, his coaches.

That is pathetic. My eyes are not lying to me. This team is a cesspool.

That’s one of the more ridiculous things I’ve ever heard from a coach lol. Just dumbfounding

I think firing coaches during the year is stupid. I realize it does occur, but it's like you are conceding the season. I think Woods and other defensive coaches will be fired after the season. If not, then you will have a legit cause to complain about.

Really Vers, you're going to use that excuse of firing a coach mid-season is like conceding the season? You're part of the same group that has been plastering this forum with comments like the Browns knew the season was lost when Watson was suspended longer than they wanted. So, it's ok in your book to concede an entire season before you've played a single game after having an entire off season to address the QB issue that you "KNEW" back in March that Watson was going to be suspended for 4-17 games but it's balsamy to suggest firing an underperforming DC mid-season because that would be deemed as conceding the season and stupid? Only on this forum could you read such a thing.

Does anyone else on this board dislike when other posters put words in your mouth that you never once uttered? It's become more and more common.

Keeping a coach until the end of the year who is destined to be canned anyway is like a failed marriage where the parents decide to stay together "for the good of the kids". I've never seen either one work to any real benefit. Everyone figures out what is going on and denying the inevitable is a folly.

j/c:

YES!

You have GOT to be kidding.

Jordan Davis
Jarrett dl
Ojabo 2nd round pick
Joe woods genius.

LOL - Love that pic.

and it is so apropos for all things Browns.

Let's break this down just a little bit. Everyone but the overly optimistic dreamers know the Browns aren't making the playoffs at this point. Most everyone knows that the rest of season is dedicated to getting watson up to speed. This team is in next year mode as we speak no matter the public relations BS we'll hear trying to fill the seats in the stadium and sell merchandise. Most everyone understood this when the Browns were 4-7 and watson took over as the starting QB. With Brissett as the starter and the result being a 4-7 record, they weren't going to the playoffs.

So how would firing a defensive coach be "conceding the season"? What season? The goal of every NFL team every season is to make the playoffs. That gives you at least a chance no matter how slim that chance is to win the SB. Once you know you aren't making the playoffs many teams fully understand that the goals set for that season are over. No matter what happens to the defensive side of the coaching staff the only real goal the Browns have at this juncture, getting watson up to speed for next season would see zero impact and thus no impact on the goals set for the rest of the season.

I'd like to see another DC at the helm and see if we can figure out who we have that is good for the future...the wash-rinse-repeat coaching of the current DC leaves me wondering who is a keeper and who is a fake-r.

I actually agree with Vers to the point that I don't think a new DC would really accomplish much in regards to play on the field for the rest of the season. Some possibly but not much. Each week in the regular season in theory at least, most of the week is spent breaking down film on your opponent and finding ways to exploit their weaknesses. How to neutralize their strengths. That would vastly limit the time a new DC would have to teach a new scheme.

The main thing I think it would accomplish is sending a message to everyone, the coaching staff, the players and the fan base that incompetence would no longer be tolerated and the time for accountability is now. I see that as a bigger gain than anything the Browns would lose making such a move.

That's a pretty decent analogy.
I was simply going to say that "conceding the season" only matters if there's still something to fight for, otherwise, it is simply recognizing the true state of reality.

I've never really been a fan of in-season firings, either, but at some point you have to see there is no value - or point - in keeping the charade going. And, let's face it, once you know the firing will be happening, keeping them on is nothing more than a charade.

Right now it doesn't make much sense to fire Woods til the end of the season. For one thing your search is limited to your new DC being someone who is currently available, plus your new DC is going to want to install his own scheme and with so many of our players Free Agents after the season, with quite a few possibly moving on, you would be wasting your time. On top of all that we don't know for sure that KS and his entire coaching staff will be here next year, it depends on how Haslam views this season and the team going forwards.

By the same token, it doesn't make any more sense to keep him. It's literally just a coin flip at this point.

There is also the question of how much say does Stefanski actually get in the hiring/firing of the DC. It's well documented that in accepting the head coaching job he agreed to accepting some coaching decisions would not be his. There's little reason to think that choice of DC isn't among those.

For all you guys that don't like or want in season firings, the last time we did it it worked out pretty good.

It also supports accountability. The players aren't going to feel accountable if their coaches aren't held accountable.

So are you suggesting the Browns should have kept Hue Jackson and Todd Haley the entire season when they were fired? That the team didn't look better after Gregg Williams was named interim HC? I'm not sure I follow.

Don't really agree with most of that. Your choices aren't limited -- your window is larger to entertain more choices -- an interim would be installed and start 'unbreaking' some of things that have unraveled under Joe's leadership. Things that need fixed regardless of the next DC. Furthermore, if a DC was hired immediately I don't at all feel it would be a waste because so many are moving on. He would be laying down foundation of his leadership to those who will remain.

Rish, you gotta stop believing what people like steve say. I wasn't part of the group that said the Browns were conceding the season. I tried to stay out of that argument because it was over the top. I don't think the Browns were playing Watson over Jacoby because they were conceding the season. I think they know he is a better qb and gives us our best chance to win games. People look at things through such a narrow window on here. Does anyone ever note what other teams are doing or have done? Jacoby, Deshawn, and Baker were all available at some point or points since last season. How has the rest of the league treated the three QBs? Jesus guys! Watson is by far the superior qb of the bunch. You play him because he is the best.

Let's just make VanPelt the interim. Not like Stefanski is using him much. Any full time coaching attention might help the defense which seems neglected, and some bad practices are getting repeated. Same garbage in, garbage out. Off the wall decisions and outside the box choices seem better than dialing up more of the same defensive misery each week. Set some standard for the coaching which seems woefully lacking. Stats and record agree that our choices have proven to be unacceptable. Outcome driven and obvious proof.

After almost two years of not being on the field are you seriously saying he would have been the QB to give the Browns the best chance of winning at that point in time at over Brissett? Does either his first or second start give you any sign that is true? Vers let's be honest here, we all knew that watson would be very rusty. You yourself were praising Brissett's play and rightfully so. So are you actually saying that anyone that knows the game the way you do thought that at the time watson began starting his play would be better than Brissetts?

Now don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. Out of the three QB's you listed, Baker, Brissett and watson, watson is certainly the best QB by far. I believe anyone trying to dispute that may actually fit the moniker you broadly throw around which doesn't apply to many you accuse of it, "Baker Boys". But if you're actually trying to claim that an almost two years removed from the game watson gave the Browns a better chance of winning at that point in time, I think the only one you're fooling may be yourself.

Over the long haul you are certainly correct. But we both know that practice and studying game film is nothing that can prepare you for the speed of the game. And while watson did look improved last week it was obvious from his patting and holding the ball that his ability to quickly read the field is not yet back to its normal capacity. Only time and playing the game can fully restore that. That's the process that's currently under way. If he continues to progress as he did from his first start to his second start, things will go well by the end of the season. There's every reason to believe he may be back to what he was before. But nobody who knows the game to any extent expected to see that right out of the gate and knew at the time him starting wouldn't give the Browns the best chance to win.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what it is you're trying to say here.

Howard is the guy who would replace Woods.

How would that tell you anything?

There's a lot of people on here I don't read, and there are a lot of people on here I skim through. I'm open minded to having my mind changed, but for the most part my opinion is what it is. It is my own. I am a harsh critic when I don't like something, and I'm probably public enemy number one on here for my takes and negativity. I'm ok with that. Well, maybe public enemy number two behind you. I'm still ok with that.

I respect your opinion on Stefanski. You, Milk, Memphis, and a few others all have solid takes on why we should stick with Stefanski. I wish I could see it your way, but I just can't get there. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. It's like that co-worker that everyone loves, but when you get a chance to work with that person, you are surprised they had such glowing praise from their peers. You think to yourself "maybe I'm missing something; how can this many people feel differently than I do"...a year later, they are gone because their incompetence finally impacted someone that mattered. That's the way I feel about Stefanski.

As far as firing coaches mid season, I don't think it's a big deal, especially if it is not at the head coaching position.

Like I said before, I'm okay w/us disagreeing. You don't insult or make up stories that are not true about what I've said. I get irritated sometimes when I read your posts because they are too negative for me, but I quickly move on. You and lead are kinda similar in some ways w/how critical you can be of certain things. I can't live that way, but I'm okay w/you guys being that way.

I love Jacoby and hate saying this, but you gotta play your best players. Watson is a better player. We were 4 and 7 and did not know how Watson would play. You gotta play him. He was way worse in that first game than I imagined, but you still should play your best players. Some may think that JB is better than Watson. That's fine. Hell, I know there are some who think Baker is better than both. It is what it is, but I'm w/the Browns on this one that they have to roll w/Watson.

Why would Howard have to be the default guy the replace Woods?

Nope, not at all. Earlier in the season i was all for letting Woods go but with season almost over I don't see much benefit from letting him go "now". As I said earlier with the way the season has played out who knows if KS and his staff is even going to be here next year and also whose to say the guy KS would like to replace Woods with is even available right now. It's not like you can just sign a coach off another team during the season. The only way I would do it right now is if we still had a viable shot at the playoffs or if KS thought one of our current assistants was a contender to be our next DC.

I looked at the resumes of our defensive staff earlier this year when the Fire Joe Woods threads started. It's an unimpressive list. I will not be surprised to see multiple changes to the staff. I also think Howard needs to go for sure.