DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski

Even within your homerism for all things KS and dissing others with opinions - your own statement highlights the issue. BRISSETT - career back up who had an excellent early campaign for the Browns was the guy throwing the ball. BRISSETT the guy who seemed to struggle to throw with accurracy when throwing deep was throwing the ball. A 30 yard fade route - not an easy throw to make for a starting caliber QB who CAN hit accurate deep passes. Sure - it was a nicely DESIGNED play ... but it was unnecessary. It was a higher risk play than called for. On 3rd and 1 - KS must have known that if he didn't get it, he'd be going for it on 4th and short also. . . . play call accordingly. And the really important point that was made that you completely blanked because there is no excuse - the 3rd down play was extreme weakness of the Browns vs strength of the Bengals ... even for the dummies in the room who never coached in the NFL (which is all of us) that seems like a dubious decision.

Kevin Stefanski needs fired. The sooner this happens the sooner we can work on getting someone else in here. Someone who actually has head coaching EXPERIENCE.

RIP the bandaid. Stefanski isn't it and he'll never be. He's a glorified offensive coordinator, can't communicate, and doesn't inspire men. Nobody plays for him because they don't believe.

We're NEVER going to win the super bowl with Kevin Stefanski.

Jacoby Brissett’s deep passing still searching for consistency with Browns

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...arching-for-consistency-with-browns.html

Just a snippet from a much longer article that articulates the issue...

Jacoby Brissett has attempted as many deep passes as Josh Allen and Justin Herbert, but he’s no Deshaun Watson

Brissett, who turned the ball over three times in Sunday’s 38-15 loss to the Patriots, has completed only 9 of 27 deep balls for 33.3%. What’s more, he’s thrown only one touchdown pass and four interceptions on those attempts, and is 33rd out of 37 QBs with a 44.6 rating in those instances.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...n-herbert-but-hes-no-deshaun-watson.html

There is no logical explanation for putting Brissett in there to throw a 30 yard pass.

...especially cold right off of the bench

j/c

I have to say, when certain defensive players are calling out the coaching.........when you have a kicker making a fuss on the sidelines, right or wrong......................one has to wonder not IF the coaching staff has lost the locker room, but rather, how bad the coaches have lost the locker room.

This. It's only a matter of time. The problem is it will be the middle of next season and another wasted year.

As has been discussed, there are so many issues with that 4th down call. The biggest issue is that Stefanski expects everything to go according to plan just because he schemed it up well. He seemed at a loss that Watson couldn't hit the open guys that he schemed open. However, upon realizing this he never changed and kept calling the same stuff over and over again. In his presser he acts completely befuddled by what happened.

He got shown up by his frigging kicker.

What will be done eventually must be done immediately.

j/c...

What is this kicker tantrum crap. Didn't see it. Did the dude really throw a fit or is this just another mole hill?

He looked pretty ticked on the sideline when they didn't let him attempt a 67yd FG. Kept looking twd the coaches and threw his arms up in disbelief. I thought to myself, "sit your arse down, bawl baby. You're the same kicker that had 3 of 6 attempts blocked".

Your anger is directed at the wrong person. Why draft the kicker if you're not going to use him when the numbers say you should?

From another post:
Just one other thing that I just don't understand. The Browns drafted York in the 4th round in 2022. To put that in perspective, York is only the 3rd kicker since 2011 to be drafted before the 5th round or later. The other two: Aguayo by TBB in the 2nd round in 2016 and only played the one year and Alex Henery by PHI in 2011 in the 4th round who's been out of football since 2015. If you're going to jump out on a limb like that and draft a kicker so much earlier than what normal franchises do, why the heck wouldn't you put your highly drafted kicker out there to kick a 60 plus yard FG with only 3 seconds left in the half? The probability of hitting the Hail Mary Pass was only 9.7%. Consider this: In the last 10 years, kickers are 18-of-66 from 60-plus — 27.2 percent. That percentage rises to 38.1 for games played in stadiums with a roof, either fixed or retractable. It drops to 22.2 percent — 10-of-45 in stadiums that are open-air, like Paycor Stadium. If the Browns are supposed to be a team driven by analytics, why didn't Stefanski attempt the 60 yard plus FG? The percentages say "kick" and you went out on a limb to draft the big leg kicker earlier than normal - WHY DIDN'T THE BROWNS ATTEMPT THE FG? Oh wait, analytics only apply when we want them to apply to the decision-making process.

Being angry at one person doesn't mean you can't be angry at another.


This wan't just a 60+ yard FG, it was a 67 yard FG....which has never been done in the history of the NFL. Analytics wouldn't tell you to kick a 67yd field goal, because there is no data indicating that it could be successful. Especially when you consider the low trajectory required to boot one that distance and York's propensity to have his kicks blocked.

Not a big deal, but I think it would have been a 68 yard attempt. Either way, I was talking at the screen for the brat to sit the F down when he was showing frustration to the Special Teams coach. No way did I want us to attempt that long of a kick especially with his/our history of having kicks blocked this year. Can you imagine the uproar had we decided to kick that long FG, had it blocked and returned for a TD? Stefanski would be declared the biggest idiot of all time because he wasn't aware of us having longer kicks blocked. More manufactured nonsense.

According to my buddy who was at the game well before kickoff...York was hitting 65 yarders with ease in warmups. No wonder he was adamant about being given the chance to put points on the board.

He showed some heart, fire and competitiveness wanting to try that FG...and Ski's Fan Boy wants to chastise him for that...if only guys like Ward & Wills had that kind of attitude...not to mention Ski himself.

Gee, another insult.

I'm not understanding all the handwringing of not letting a very average kicker kick what would be an NFL record. But on the same token, it probably had as much chance as going through as a hail mary from that distance..so why not.

I think the Hail Mary was a better call because we've had multiple kicks blocked this year. Kicking a 68 yard FG would lead to the ball leaving his foot on a lower trajectory which would enhance the chance of it being blocked. Again, imagine the outrage from all the Baker Mayfield fans had the kicked been blocked and returned for a TD?

Kicking a 65 yarder in warmups with no defense or block rush is not quite the same as a real game situation, now is it.


Should have tried a fake field goal with a Hail Mary - the best of both worlds.

I don't disagree...but using that logic, why is he bothering to see what is the limit of his distance that day and in that stadium?

You can dish it out, but you can't take it.

I pointed out the actual statistics of both on the previous page. The odds of a Hail Mary being successful was I think 9.7% while a FG attempt of 65 yards or more was only 5.1% successful. Actually a Hail Mary has better odds of succeeding.

So let me see if I have this correct. According to you The Fabulous Baker Boys isn't an insult but Ski's Fan Boy is an insult? Only in the land of Vers.

j/c:

An aside: The Cabots need not get over zealous with their tree selection and need to find one that doesn't belly up to the ceiling.

Arch, maybe i'm getting the wrong message, but it feels like the players right now are frustrated with the coaches because they aren't letting these guys go and PLAY football, if you know what i mean. it's competitive, guys wanna be great and get glory, like our kicker wanting the staff to give him a crack at it. that fire and passion seems to be suppressed by this coaching staff. it's like the analytical aspect of coaching has taken over the entire culture in the locker room and players are starting to really get tired of it.

Well, I think you ARE getting it.

I was thinking more if the kick was short, have Chase back deep to return the kick. The line can't release, and then you have bunch of DT's and Olinemen lubbering around trying to play defense.

R.I.P. 2022, 2023, 2024, 2025......Infinity of seasons to come...

11-6...8-9...5-12

Who's Ryan Burns? Are you Ryan Burns?

That's a good point.

Hail Mary is the only call imo. Unprecedented kick from a low trajectory -- two things can happen -- one is very, very unlikely and nets you 3pts; the other could be disastrous. A block is likely recovered at about the 35 with a player on the run towards the endzone. Hail Mary -- two things can happen -- one is more likely than the FG and nets you 6pts; the other results in an incompletion, 70 yards from where the first scenario takes place. Players are even coached to "bat it down". No brainer in my book going into a half. I may try it to win a game if the score is tied, that's about it.

As far as the York being "mad". Didn't look like a hissy-fit to me, looked more like "awe man, c'mon, give me a shot!"

And here I thought the long kicks he's known for were the number one reason we drafted him.

Justin Tucker, maybe. Cade York - ummmm no.

We aren’t going to fire KS. We may replace the DC and if we do, we better bring in a guy who is an obvious upgrade over JW. It’s not necessarily his fault, because the FO did not adequately address the DL issues we knew were percolating last off-season, but some guys take the fall. That’s the way she goes.

I wish we could get a Gregg Williams type d coordinator.

Stefanski will get one more ‘prove-it’ year.

As I said, KS deserves a season with DW. It's a matter of conjecture if he's a good HC or not but he is a good OC and I'm sure he can't wait to work further with DW and devise more plays that are suited to him. Deshaun doesn't have the limitations that Baker and Jacoby have. On D JW should be replaced and with a coach that's tough and can run the D with autonomy that way KS can concentrate on his responsibilities on O AND as a HC.

Those who want to fire Stephanski, I don't get it. His offense is in the top ten of the league. I do admit, I don't like that he goes for it constantly on fourth down instead of taking points, but, his offense is pretty good.

And his O should be even better with Deshaun as long as we get the O-line straightened out.

Hmmmm, last I checked, the HC has responsibilities for the offense, defense and special teams. If the Browns (or Stefanski) bring in a defensive coach that's tough and can run the defense with autonomy so Stefanski can run the offense with autonomy, then I say give the OC job to Stefanski and hire a true HC that can actually run the team. The Browns have to be the only team in the entire NFL that's getting support from the fans for the HC because they believe he's a good OC while the rest of the team is going down the crapper. Of course, the claims of Stefanski being a great offensive mind might be all smoke and mirrors.

Kevin Stefanski agreed to certain specific terms that limit his authority
Posted by Mike Florio on January 13, 2020

Head football coaches like to run the show. In Cleveland, the head football coach won’t be.

As explained by Steve Doerschuk of the Canton Repository, new Browns coach Kevin Stefanski showed during his interview a willingness to yield to certain expectations of part-time chief strategy office Paul DePodesta, including having someone from the analytics group wearing a headset and having access to the coaching staff on game days. Stefanski also agreed to owner Jimmy Haslam’s desire to engage in hours-long meetings with his head coach the day after games.

Dustin Fox of 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland added that the front office expects the head coach to “turn in game plans to the owner and analytics department by Friday, and to attend an end-of-week analytics meeting to discuss their plan.”


So, is Stefanski really running the team or even the offense? The above would point to most likely not.

j/c:


Andy Reid, Sean McVay, LeFleur, Kyle Shanahan, Zac Taylor, Arthur Smith, Mike McCarthy, Brian Daboll,Nick Sirianni, Kevin O’Connell, Kliff Kingsbury, Josh McDaniels, etc. How many of these guys run their defenses? I'll give you a hint. ZERO!

Everyone understands that the HC is ultimately responsible for the coaches under him. However, these guys don't take over the defense. They don't draw up plays. They don't come up w/schemes for the defense. They don't coach defensive techniques. What they can do is fire the guy if he isn't producing. Other times, that decision lays w/the GM. There was no reason to fire Woods at the end of last year. They were a top 5 defense. Most thought the D would carry the O this season while Watson was out. It might be wise to see what happens w/Woods at the end of the season before blaming the defensive woes on Stefanski. Then again, being wise is not a given w/some "fans."

Here is an article about the Role of Defensive Coordinators for your reading pleasure.

The Role of a Defensive Coordinator in Football (Responsibilities, Salary)
ByCoach Martin|Coaching


A lot of attention in football gets put on a team's head coach, and the final credit and / or blame for how a team performs falls into their lap.

There's good reason for that, too, as the head coach is ultimately responsible for everything that happens with the team.

In essence, the head coach is the CEO of a football team.

But like any good CEO at a company, they need a solid supporting staff to help make things run smoothly.

This "executive team" consists of three main coaches:

Offensive coordinator
Special teams coordinator
Defensive coordinator
Each of these coaches is responsible for one of the main units on a football team -- the offense, the defense, and the special teams.

These coaches hold full responsibility over their unit, the plays they run and the players on the field.

They are executives on the team -- to use the business analogy -- and essentially serve as the head coach for their particular until.

They report directly to the head football coach, but also have other coaches underneath them who report directly to them.

Let's take a closer look at the role of a defensive coordinator, including their responsibilities and salary.



Defensive Coordinator Responsibilities
The defensive coordinator's main responsibility is to run the defensive unit effectively.

Their duties include:

Designing plays for the defense
Making decisions on positions and roles
Game preparation
Opponent scouting
Teaching, training and execution
The defensive coordinator can't manage to do all of these alone -- especially throughout an entire football season.

Which is why they, too, have many other coaches who work directly underneath them as supporting staff.

Let's take a look at the most important responsibilities:

a. Game Preparation
Different teams may certainly have a slightly different approaches when it comes to defensive coaching staff.

However, the typical staff will have separate coaches in charge of the defensive line, the linebackers, and the secondary.

Some teams will even have a separate coach for the cornerbacks and a separate coach for the safeties, too.

Each week, the defensive coordinator works with all of the assistants to cover the game plan for the upcoming game.

This includes not only going over the general plays, but the specific ones that might work well against the upcoming opponent.

During the practice week leading up to the game, defensive coordinators will work hand-in-hand with their position coaches to come up with a specific schemes to run on game day.

This could be out of a base 3-4 alignment or 4-3 alignment, based on the team's personnel and the offense that is likely to be used by their opponent.

Then, all the coaches will implement this scheme with the players on the practice field.

They can do this by setting up dummies or getting a scout team to act as the opposing team's offense.

This will help the players understand the alignment and better prepare them for what they will likely face in the upcoming game.

football-defensive-coordinator
b. Studying Film
A lot of work during the week will also happen in the film room.

The defensive coordinator will run tapes of the opponent's games to show the defensive unit exactly what they're dealing with.

They'll show important details about how the opposing team runs their offense, their tendencies, and what to look out for.

Position coaches will step in when necessary to add emphasis or to explain in more detail specific situations.

c. Calling Defensive Plays
On game day, a defensive coordinator's job might include calling the defensive plays.

Some head coaches handle this duty, though, so it really depends on each individual team.

Some defensive coordinators will be on the sideline for games, while others prefer to get a birds-eye view of the action from the booth in the stadium.

Again, this is really a personal preference between the defensive coordinator and the head coach.

Regardless of whether they call the plays or not, they will be responsible for tracking the performance of the team on each play.

Defensive coordinators must then make adjustments to the defensive plan as the game progresses.

football-defensive-coordinator
Defensive Coordinator Salary
The three coordinators will often make the most money among the coaching staff, aside from the head coach.

Some defensive coordinators may make more than the other two coordinators. Some may make less, and some teams will pay all their coordinators the same.

In the National Football League, defensive coordinators earn roughly $600,000 to $800,000 per year.

Currently, the highest-paid defensive coordinator in the league is Todd Bowles, who makes $3 million per year with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

The salary range in college is much larger than in the NFL.

Big football programs spend more on their defensive coordinators, while smaller Division I schools could pay their defensive coordinators around $700,00 per year.


Before he was recently named the head coach at Oklahoma, Brent Venables was the highest-paid defensive coordinator in college football -- earning $2.5 million with Clemson University.

Conclusion
The defensive coordinator is one of the most important coaches on a football team, and as such, he's often paid very well for his job.

They are essentially the "head coach of the defense," responsible for all players, staff, and schemes on that side of the football.

https://footballadvantage.com/defensive-coordinator/

Bingooooo.....

Originally Posted by Versatile Dog

A lot of attention in football gets put on a team's head coach, and the final credit and / or blame for how a team performs falls into their lap.

There's good reason for that, too, as the head coach is ultimately responsible for everything that happens with the team.

In essence, the head coach is the CEO of a football team.

But like any good CEO at a company, they need a solid supporting staff to help make things run smoothly.

This "executive team" consists of three main coaches:

Offensive coordinator
Special teams coordinator
Defensive coordinator

Vers, thanks so much buddy for collaborating to prove my point. You went out there and just proved what everyone has been trying to say with just this portion of your post. The Head Coach is ultimately responsible for EVERYTHING that happens with the team. He is indeed the CEO and he is RESONSIBLE to have a solid SUPPORTING STAFF to help make things run smoothly. Though you may have a member of your executive team (not unlike any business enterprise) performing poorly, the CEO (H/C) is the person ultimately responsible for EVERYTHING that happens to that team or company.

The other information that you posted about what a DC, OC, and ST coach is responsible for does not trump in any way what is the main responsibility of the H/C (CEO). As with any company, football is no different in the responsibilities of the hierarchy. Your executive team may be performing poorly or have weak links but the final credit and/or blame for how that team performs falls directly into the CEO's lap or in this case the HC. It's that way in every business and it's that way with every other franchise in the NFL. As you clearly stated and I 100% agree - the HC (CEO to say) is ultimately responsible for EVERYTHING that happens with the team. Stefanski cannot hide behind the fact that he's playing OC and the defense is not his responsibility because it is - THANK YOU FOR CONFIRMING THIS MISUNDERSTANDING!