DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Ukraine and Russia

As we can see in this thread, some wish to rest their opinions on what they are spoon fed rather than actually assess the situation and look at it from a global standpoint. Joining a global effort to provide weapons for someone else to fight a mutual enemy is the most cost efficient and least deadly way to approach it and weaken that enemy. Of course then again trump kissed Putin's ass so much maybe they no longer consider Russia an enemy? Some people just won't be happy until we let Russia attack our NATO partners and we have troops coming home in body bags. You know, that way they create heroes and wave the flag more. Murica!

I think everyone's point is missing the point that I am speculating based on action and reaction. I said "if, could, maybe" etc and that might be one of many reasons why our military leaders and politicians have little interest in helping Ukraine.

Ya'll are acting like I said it's happening tomorrow and my reasons are the only reasons. smh

We haven't shifted any troops.
We haven't given much support except for mostly old/refurbished equipment.
We probably won't put boots on the ground in Ukraine. (regardless of the political party)

This is somewhat concerning
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-63488547

Russian commanders discussed using nuclear arms in Ukraine, says US


Senior Russian military leaders discussed last month how and when they might use nuclear weapons on the battlefield in Ukraine, two US officials have told CBS News.

Vladimir Putin was not involved in the talks, they told the BBC's US partner.

The White House said it had grown "increasingly concerned" about the potential use of nuclear weapons over the last few months.

But it stressed the US saw no sign of Russia preparing for such use.


https://www.wired.co.uk/article/russia-propaganda-ukraine-dirty-bomb

Russia Is Ramping Up Nuclear War Propaganda
Kremlin-backed media is spreading rumors of a Ukrainian “dirty bomb” attack to rouse support for extreme retaliation.

nah nah nah, you were posting the whole time as if you knew all of that was gonna go down. you wouldn't stop talking about war games and Russian-Chinese relations, AND you were acting as if we the steps the US and EU took wasn't gonna be effective. your speculations were based on inaccuracies that i corrected you over months ago.

and Putin isn't gonna drop a nuke. One thing these Tyrants and wannabe-tyrants have in common is their drive for self-preservation. Putin knows if he drops a nuke, he automatically loses. we are SUPPOSED to take every threat seriously, but in real world discussions, most people knew Putin was bluffing. how you gonna nuke a country you're trying to occupy? he doesn't just need ukraine to replenish the declining russian population, but he needs the land itself to remain useful, especially with the gas reserves located in ukraine. when you're a one commodity country like Russia and are literally obsessed over it, nuking your next door neighbor would be like firing a sawed-off shotgun at a mouse that you spotted in the kitchen. yea, you defeated your enemy, but you also destroyed a chunk of your own house that YOU have to pay for.

Go back and read all of my comments... I said "if, could, maybe" etc.

If I was that scared, I would have moved to Broadus, Montana.

nah you probably would've moved to Russia like the jan 6 dude and Snowden.

He’s right, man. Between the Red Dawn stuff and the fact you speculated about China even possibly invading Russia, you can’t take it all back now. Own it. It’s crazy, but at least respectably own it.

More than 400 Russian reservists died after their commanders ran away during a Ukrainian artillery bombardment, Russian soldier says

https://www.yahoo.com/news/more-400-russian-reservists-died-080317971.html

but obviously Russian military is still better than our military cause they aren't, lol, woke.

JMHO, our national interests have always been- fight wars on other countries land- we be blessed with Atlantic and Pacific/ no real treat militarily on our earthly hemisphere. I'm like other Americans who question spending trillions on other countries- we've tried twice recently to build nations like our own- Afgan and Iraq- yet those cultures endured and we lost trillions. I'm for helping Ukr, but limitedly- the EU must do more than their share. All our defense contractor are happy, but spending on war sure takes away from infrastructure we DESPERATELY need to update. Peace.

Militarily, we have no threats. Period. Sure they could come, but they will leave defeated or we all blow up. But hopefully, we've learned how hard people will defend their land (shout out to Ukraine) and we will stay on the side of democracy going forward. Last thing the world needs is some GOPer fascist ass POTUS letting/helping Putin turn his situation around.

Yeah, most felt that way in the USA, then we had Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and Jan 6th. All quiet on the Western front. Until it’s not.

Agree. Plus, this is very distinguishable from Iraq and Afghanistan. VERY distinguishable.

This is where I am. I'm not in favor of much of what our nation has done in the middle east. Installing governments and the reasoning for the war in Iraq was something I couldn't support.

But this is an entirely different animal. In this case Russia invaded an established democracy that is on the very doorstep of our NATO allies. Trying to compare the two is like comparing daylight to darkness.

lol yo russia says they wanna negotiate now.

j/c...

Ruh roh. If confirmed this could raise the stakes immensely.

Oh boy...

Two deaths reported in Polish border town, as a wave of Russian missiles hit Ukraine

Projectiles have reportedly killed two people after hitting a farm in Poland near the border with Ukraine on Tuesday, according to Polish media.

It is unclear where the projectiles came from, but they landed in the NATO member’s territory roughly the same time as Russia launched its biggest wave of missile attacks on Ukrainian cities in more than a month.

Polish media showed an image of a deep impact and upturned farm vehicle at the site, near the town of Przewodow.

Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki has convened the Committee of the Council of Ministers for National Security and Defense Affairs, a government spokesman said.
Latvia and Estonia respond

A Polish official told CNN that nothing was confirmed yet and the investigation into the incident was continuing.

However, the Latvian Defense Minister Artis Pabriks tweeted his “condolences to our Polish brothers in arms. Criminal Russian regime fired missiles which target not only Ukrainian civilians but also landed on NATO territory in Poland. Latvia fully stands with Polish friends and condemns this crime.”

There’s been no confirmation from Polish authorities that Russian missiles landed on Polish territory.

Another NATO member, Estonia, described the reports as “most concerning.”

The Estonian Ministry of Foreign Affairs commented on Twitter: “Latest news from Poland is most concerning. We are consulting closely with Poland and other Allies.

“Estonia is ready to defend every inch of NATO territory,” the Estonian Ministry of Foreign Affairs commented on Twitter. “We’re in full solidarity with our close ally Poland.”

The North Atlantic Treaty Organization is a group of 30 North American and European nations. According to NATO, its purpose “is to guarantee the freedom and security of its members through political and military means.”

The alliance was created in 1949 in response to the start of the Cold War. Its original purpose was to protect the West from the threat posed by the Soviet Union. Since the end of the Cold War, many former Soviet nations have joined NATO, much to the annoyance of Putin.

The best-known aspect of the alliance is Article 5 of the treaty, which, if invoked, means “an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.”

Article 5 has only ever been invoked once, in response to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the United States.

However, the alliance can take collective defense measures without invoking Article 5 – and has done this in the light of the Russian attack on Ukraine.

Russian President Vladimir Putin has long complained that NATO has, over time, expanded its borders by admitting Eastern European countries that were once part of the Soviet Union – meaning Russia now shares a land border with the world’s largest military alliance, thus reducing his geopolitical power in what was once Moscow’s sphere of influence.

As recently as February, he was demanding that NATO scaled back to the borders of 1997, before the Baltic nations of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, the latter two of which border Russia, joined the alliance.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/15/europe/poland-missile-rocket-nato-przewodow-ukraine-intl/index.html

Something to be watched. I suppose the first steps are to identify the missile and try to confirm where it came from.

We need to make sure the Russians fired the missile.

No matter, I wouldn't want to see a larger escalation.

at least I know why WW3 is trending on twitter...

Poland has confirmed the missile was “Russian made”

I'd bet NATO doesn't do anything though.

Nato isn't getting into this was on the ground over this. But Putin will be put on notice and warned.

poland told everyone it didn't originate from russia.

no NATO response. never make decisions in a reactionary mindset. or you'll end up looking like the russian military under putin.

Had two retired military officers I know well post on Facebook....Nato hit by Russians, now what....one stated we should strike Russia....WOW, what idiots. Paul Harvey, the rest of the story.....Ukraine tried to shot down stuff and killed some Poles....sad, two folks in wrong place. Yet, old buddies want start WWIII over two deaths....WHAT...Chicago kills more than two a night and they're at PEACE....darn, the world is screwed up.

Zelensky is saying it did not come from Ukraine

which means we're not going to WW3 cause nobody wants to claim it.

If it was American made, the USA will be demanded to claim it. Just saying.

Unfortunately there is a certain portion of our people who think war is always the answer even when we're not sure of what happened. Such was the case with the Iraq war. Countless people killed for no good reason. Thank God cooler heads were in charge this time around.

Because it cracked me up.

Wonder how Putin is going to react to Ukrainians sending drones against Russian airfield in Russia. Understand totally Ukrainian response, but who knows what NUT running Russia will do. AND, Uk are working on long range drone- any target in Russia could or should be open-Russia bombing/striking everything. I'd target oil storage tanks. Ain't war wonderful.

I think it was past time they took the war to Russia. Sitting back being the victim while you are continually attacked without a response to inflict harm on your enemy has never won a war.

Will any of Russia's allies even show up if Ukraine did try to push inside? Putin ticked off a lot of people in the central asia by not honoring their military agreements recently.

They’re all busy putting down their own domestic citizen protesters. Gotta love feudal monarchies in a modern era, right?

Didn't they already take out a fuel depo just across the border into Russia? Some of this might be Putin establishing a case to escalate to nukes. But Ukraine should take this fight to Putin. Hell, they could rout half or ALL of Russia the way they fight.

I doubt that. Sure they are tenacious fighters but the number of their forces are quite small in the grand scheme of things. The most sure way of defeating yourself is to run a limited number of forces thin over a large area. Ukraine lacks the number of forces for a full scale ground attack against Russia.

They've taken out like 100K+ Russians already. Just saying, and I don't think even the Ru7ssian military would put up much of a fight. Most of those people are sick AF of Putin if the reports of anti-Putin activism are true.