DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Media looks for someone to blame...J. Meuller targets Hjalte Frodholt

The story below was plastered all over the internet and twitter after the Browns loss to the Bengals...

Hjalte Frodholt’s struggles at center key part of Browns issues on offense

Story by JaredMueller • Yesterday 9:01 AM
link




Hjalte Frodholt’s struggles at center key part of Browns issues on offense
Story by JaredMueller • Yesterday 9:01 AM

link

The issues for the Cleveland Browns this season have not been as simple as many would prefer. It would be nice if the blame could fall directly on one decision, one player, one coach or one injury. Instead, the Browns season has been mired in failures on special teams, defense and offense. Cleveland has dealt with injuries, mistakes and decisions that haven’t, yet, panned out.


With the 2022 season all but done for the Browns, we will still be breaking down what we saw, preparing for the last four games of the season all while preparing for what 2023 could have in store.

One under-discussed issue for Cleveland has been injuries to the center position. While injuries happen in football all the time, they become highly problematic in two cases: A major injury to a major star or when multiple injuries happen in the same unit. The Browns have escaped the former but had issues with the latter.

On top of the center position, linebacker has seen three players go out for the season this year.

At center, Hjalte Frodholt has stepped in as the primary snapper the last three games. Frodholt replaced Ethan Pocic who replaced Nick Harris. Frodholt wasn’t even supposed to be in the role as both Michael Dunn (on IR with a back issue) and rookie Dawson Deaton (out of the year with a knee injury) would have stepped in for Pocic. Given that Frodholt was, likely, the fifth option at center, he has been an abject failure but he has struggled significantly including being a part of this:

John Kosko
@JohnKosko3
Browns OL since week 9 has graded as the 2nd worst in the NFL.
3:15 PM · Dec 11, 2022

For the year, Pro Football Focus (where the above tweet’s information is coming from) has Frodholt with a 44.7 pass-blocking grade and a 71.4 run-blocking grade. Over the last three games, where he has been the center, his abysmal pass blocking has stayed in the mid-40s but his run blocking grade has dropped with grades of 50.1, 65.9 and 65.7.

For reference, Pocic’s year-to-date run-blocking grade is 84.3 and his pass-blocking is 67.5.

The offensive line is like a chain, the weak link gets exposed and causes problems for the rest. While the entire blame can’t be placed on Frodholt, he only stepped in as the full-time center in Week 11, an injury to Wyatt Teller also forced him into heavy action at guard earlier this year when the team’s line started to struggle.

In the end, the third starting center (and fifth option at the position) is unlikely to play well. Pocic’s injury (as well as Teller’s) and Frodholt’s poor performance isn’t the only reason the offense is struggling but it is a piece of the equation. Unfortunately, it is tough to find one or two good centers at the NFL level much less three, four or five like the Browns have had to deal with this year. Besides health, nothing fixes that kind of problem.

Are you surprised how poorly Frodholt has graded out at center compared to Pocic?



IMO, THIS STORY was repeated on a number sites...JUST TO NAME A FEW of the sources this writer targeted to spread his take on Frodholt's performance against Cinci, I found the exact same story on these...
...Dawgs By Nature
...USA Today
...MSN
...areyouwatchingthis
...TWITTER

In an effort to legitimize this story, the writer cites "PFF data" to show how poorly the Browns center played.

Well, I did the "unthinkable" since I had the time and access to replay...I reviewed EVERY SNAP..all 72 of them...and graded Frodholt's performance myself. The author of this article hasn't a clue as to what he was looking at.

I will say this, the author of the story may have been influenced by the TV media and editors who flashed Frodholt's picture a few times when they named him as the guilty individual for some of the 'MANY" penalties the Browns had during the game.

A couple of plays where it appeared that Njalte completely missed his block, but those attempting to grade those plays may not have understood just what Frodhollt's assignment was. Twice, once, to the right, in first half and once, to the left in the second half, the Browns ran what looked to be the same play..an off-tackle run by Chubb. Both times, the middle guard for the Bengals was in on the tackle stopping Chubb for little to no yardage both times.

...the blocking on those plays called for the center to pull and lead the RB, which is exactly what Frodholt did, both times. The problem was not what the Center did, but the play design that called for the Bitonio to perform a "reach block" to cut off the Bengals middle guard who was positioned nearly nose to nose across from Frodholt.

Many times defensive coaches instruct their MG and DL to follow a pulling OLine guy knowing that OL player is going to lead you to the ball carrier. Bitonio's splits were too wide, making his chances of cutting off the MG very difficult. Both times the Cinci MG followed Frodholt right to Chubb, making the tackle. Someone who doesn't understand blocking assignments would look at Frodholt 5 yards ahead of where Chubb was tackled and wonder what the heck is Frodholt doing.

That missed blocking assignment is not on Frodholt...it is on those who designed that off-tackle run and pulling the center, thinking Bitonio will be able to perform a reach-block to cut off the Bengals MG.

These are just a couple of examples of why I don't like PFF and analytical guys attempting to grade the performance of the players. Chances are the individuals attempting to grade Frodholt had no idea why it looked like he was out of position, when in fact he performed his assignment exactly as the play was designed.

There are more plays that I will discuss but this is a start, showing how lack of experience by those grading a play can lead the readers to believe our center played like a piece of crap.

Interestingly the story by Mr Mueller concerning the play of Frodholt has become hard to find. Maybe someone educated the writer a bit in an attempt to help him understand OLine blocking.

I will have more examples and discussion concerning Frodholt's performance vs the Bengals and how the media attempted to find a scapegoat to blame for the loss to Cinci.

JMHO, mac

I've watched Froholdt and he has indeed been a problem. A big problem He allows early penetration too many times. It's disruptive. He also has "guessed" wrong at times when to help w/the double and when not to.

I am not bad-mouthing him because he was thrust into an impossible situation due to injuries to about four guys who would have probably been ahead of him at center. I think he is trying hard. It's not really his fault, but he is struggling and it is hurting our offense in my opinion. I don't know about his background in regards to where he played in college, but in my eyes, he did a lot better at RG than he has at center.

Blame the offense in general. The offense as a whole blame it too.
Blame the @uarterback as a ballcarrier and pocket decision maker, but little more specific than that.

The offense as a whole, has been a consistent problem since Tyrod Taylor was the @uarterback.

First, I don't recall the "team" ever commenting on something said in the media, so forget about that. Benjamin Franklin once said: “Never argue with anyone who buys the ink by the barrel.”

While ink may not be the item used as much, it still holds true in meaning.

I think the Browns know Froholdt is doing the best he can. It's clear he isn't a center. He is however a solid guard. The Browns and team know this and aren't going to readjust their evaluation of him because he struggles at the center position.

I gave my opinion on what I have seen.

I have no clue how amateur some of those people are. I think most get paid, so I suppose that makes them more than amateur.

I do know that you are an amateur, so I think I will put at least an ounce more stock in what PFF grades say.

Just saying

Again, I like Froholdt, but a center he is not. He has trouble transitioning from snap to blocking position.

I don’t blame him exactly, but I blame the circumstance he is put in … he’s what? Our 3rd or 4th center? Usually that won’t end well

Just my opinion, but Mueller's article looks accurate to me.

Actually the article doesn't blame him. The article points out he is simply one of many problems. Which he is. I think you're trying to hard to reach for something that isn't there. The writer also makes it quite clear that it's not really his fault that he's been thrown into a situation he is not best suited for. I have no idea what article you were reading.

Try reading the article again. Reporters always use gotchya headlines to suck readers in. That has nothing to do with the content of the article.

No mac, I did not review each and every play.

No mac, I did not play on the OL. I was a RB. I did coach the OL though.

I did not attack you in any way. Yet, you try and say my thoughts are BS. I'll stand by my opinion and I won't resort to insulting you to win an argument.

But he didn't write about Watson. He wrote about the 4th string center. I fail to see what point you're trying to make. Should the FO publicly jump on every writer that pens a story critical of a Browns player?

He did not say that "that the problems with the Browns offensive performance is because of the play of the Browns center.." He said that's one problem among many. If people refuse to read an article and only go by the headline that's on them. If I considered you an authority on OL play I would take you seriously but your opinion is no more or less than any other poster on a message board. I will say that I really don't value many of these writers and Twiitervers posters any more seriously. You're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill and it isn't going very well.

Nobody is doing that. You seem all fired-up because people won't study film in order to decide if a writer nobody cares about is biased against a 4th string player. I'm waiting for SB to come around and say "what is a JARED MUELLER".

I do. not. get it.

Jared Mueller is Paul DePodesta's pen name.

Ahhhh... now it all makes sense.

No mac. I am not discrediting your opinion. I gave my opinion and did not say yours was wrong. What I did not like was you saying my opinion was BS. I know the game well enough and I was not trying to feed anyone any BS.

pit...I could not have made that point any better than you did with your quote above.

Most Browns fans simply read what is written by anyone with a platform and regard it as THE TRUTH. You and others assume that the information you read and repeat are based on reliable facts from legitimate sources but the only way we know for sure is check out the information being posted.

Most don't have the time or are simply not interested enough in the information to fact check or review the information using our own experience with football to use as a measuring stick. We read an article such as this one, written by Meuller and we repeat and spread his opinions over and over, not ever taking the time to do "our own homework".

IN THIS CASE..I simply read the headline...

Quote

Hjalte Frodholt’s struggles at center are a key part of Browns issues on offense. The PFF data might surprise you:

...and I immediately classified the article as BS. I actually thought the story was one of those designed to "shock" the readers (Browns fans) enough that they would "CLICK" on the Mueller's story to see if Mueller might have had some kind of inside information.

BUT, reading Mueller's headline again..."Hjalte Frodholt’s struggles at center are a key part of Browns issues on offense. The PFF data might surprise you:"

Reading the headline again, it was so outrageous that I assumed it was "pure BS" used as "click-bait" by the author to get Browns fans to read it.

Well, I was right, it was "click-bait" but before I discounted the article completely, I had to be sure and the only way I could be sure was to review the video of Froholdt's play and review the video to make sure of #72's performance..every snap.

How outrageous was the story..?..The story died quickly when "someone" questioned the author, asking for the video evidence to back the claims he made.

So you are using the fact that people don't actually read the story to say that this guy blamed Frodholt for the woes of the offense based solely on the headline? Obviously I disagree with you.

I’m no football expert, but I don’t need to read some guy’s opinion about Froholdt to know he’s been not good at centre, in fact he’s been the opposite.

I can see him getting owned play after play and when you can’t defend the middle of the line, you’re gonna get massacred.

Sorry Mac, you need to stop barking at this tree.

yeah pretty much anyone with a set of eyes can see where the weak links are on this line, C and LT but Center because we are playing a guy who a few weeks ago was playing FB for us in short yardage. Can't really blame him for the lapses, its more Berry than anyone for not going out and getting more help.. Just like his fixes at LB and DT...oh wait.

I’m not obligated to show you which plays indicate Froholdt’s incompetence at centre. I don’t have the time nor the inclination. I’d give you my eyeballs, so you could see for yourself, but I need them.

One may argue that he needs them more than you do...

You are the lone drummer on this issue. I'd say that says something.

peen...It says a lot to me...most fans do not focus on the OLine and find it much easier to rely on an..internet dude..who tries to plant the idea that it's our CENTER'S FAULT that the offense is struggling..!

Old guys can be stubborn and being the "lone drummer" doesn't bother me a bit.

I think I identified the problem here. You seem to be confusing "a key problem" with "the key problem".

Yes, it's only you in your wisdom that could identify this fallacy the main stream media is perpetuating on our society. Once again you seem to not have a grasp on the difference between a key reason and the key reason.

Well he's 2nd in the league for Centers in sacks given up at 6 and the only guy worse than him has played 200 more snaps according to PFF.

The Browns lost 2 centers. What more do you expect? Lay off the guy! He's not even a center.

I expect them to identify the severity of the problem and the expected duration of it, then, when needed, find and sign someone that will be at least serviceable at the position.
If we're reduced to our 5th option at a given position, then it is a VERY safe bet that we could find a street free agent to come in and perform better.

WE lost 4 centers Hf is actually our 5th center. He has sucked so far. I always tape the games and re watch them in slow motion so i can study the oline. And the d line. Like most people i follow the ball and not the line play so much when I watch the game live.