DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum So explain how Shanahan pulls it off

I've seen on here repeated by several posters of course
Worded a bit different how Stefanski needs a full
Season with DeShawn Watson before any judgement
Can be passed on him regarding being a head coach
"Stefanski hasn't had a real franchise QB, let's give him a
Chance blah blah blah ,,,,,,,"

Yet in San Fransico we've seen a 7th RD QB in Brock Purdy
Step in and run the 48ers offense very effectively.
Minus Deebo Samuel of course.

Meanwhile in 8 Quarters of action, The Browns offense under
Watson has 1 TD. No explosive plays over 30 yds.

The Niners are on their 3rd QB of the season. Yet it's business
As usual for Shanahan. No to mention the 49ers backfield
Has had a overhaul.

How would the 49ers fare if Stefanski was their head coach?

We will never know the answer to this question. Stefanski will never get another head coaching job after the Browns. The Browns are the only ones dumb enough to give him one to begin with. We were vying for Stefanski's services against ...no one.

I said in another thread, his offense is always keeping you off balance. It’s like he has the defense on a yo yo. They stretch you both ways on the field and you can definitely see a progression of play calls/formations. Then you add in CMC, deebo, Kittle, and some do-it-all type guys and it’s fun.

If the announcers didn't say it once they said it 10 times last night about how Shanahan and Lynch worked together to build the defense that can only be called a shutdown defense. Smith is the second DC that Shanahan has had with the previous one getting the HC gig with the NYJets. Point is that even though Shanahan doesn't run the defense, he has been accountable for putting the defense together to play his scheme and has and continues to do it with 2 different DC's. The vast majority of football fans couldn't even tell you who the DC is for the 49ers or the Browns for that fact. Those same fans all could tell you who the HC's are for any team. The difference between the 49ers and the Browns, the HC of the 49ers is accountable for everything that happens to his team - the Browns, not so much. Heck, they even went through how Shanahan and Lynch used the draft to build their defense. The type of player and how they play as a unit which is a requirement to play for Shanahan. Has anyone ever heard anything about Stefanski/Berry having such a player requirement to be on the Browns? It's time to face facts here, Stefanski might be trying to be a Shanahan play caller (which he's an amateur at) but he's only a shadow of being a HC like Shanahan and Berry is no Lynch.

Did you watch SF play? If so, the answer is obvious. John Lynch, their GM, has done a great job of acquiring talent. Their defensive scheme is very similar to ours. Their DC, DeMeco Ryans worked under Robert Saleh just like Joe Woods did. * The difference is that they have a dominating DL, w/guys like Armstead [who is dominating] in the middle. Their LBers fly to the ball. Fred Warner might be the best ILBer in the NFL. Greenlaw flies to the ball and is extremely physical. Did you see the hit where he caused the fumble last night? He covers ground in a hurry. Al-Shaair is another fast LBer who covers a ton of ground. Ward is an excellent corner. Hufanga is going to be All Pro at Safety this year.

*Note: I would have mentioned Nick Bosa, but we have Myles, so that doesn't equal a glaring difference.

So, both teams [and add the Jets to the mix] run similar schemes. The difference is that SF has superior talent and the Jets DL is right up there w/SF. Look at our DTs. Look at our LBers. Our safeties. Those guys on SF hold each other accountable. They fine each other if someone isn't hustling on even one play. Our guys blame the coaches.

I don't disagree with you. However, the point you're missing is who is responsible for a) acquiring that talent and b) holding the defensive players and DC accountable? Who is responsible the last 2-years for the failure to get the type of players needed? In SF, those moves are all talked about as a collaboration between Shanahan and Lynch. In Cleveland though, you are trying to sell this as a Berry issue. I don't want to hear it's a process or the Browns are working on it - they have failed and continue to fail. The continual regression in performance proves that fact. No different than with the offense, Shanahan can take a 7th round rookie selection at QB and look like a Super Bowl contender. With Stefanski, it's he hasn't had a top 5 elite QB. Name that top 5 elite QB that's been playing in San Francisco these last 6 years Shanahan has been there then. Just because Stefanski is trying to run the same type of schemes on offense, defense, and/or team - he is light years away and has continued to fail as a HC as his record would indicate. Shanahan makes adjustments, Stefanski makes up excuses - time for a change.

An offensive scheme is critical to success. But as it pertains to being a HC in the NFL it takes much more than that. Your scheme can be great but when you bring in your backup QB who is not accurate on long throws to throw a 30 yard pass on 4th and 1 your scheme isn't helping you. You still have to make in game adjustments and make the correct calls. You must be bale to transfer the scheme you have to getting your players to execute that scheme.

If simply having a great scheme equated to success on the filed of play good NFL HC's would be easy to find. But they're not.

I think Stefanski did great with Brissett. He played arguably the best professional football of his career this year. If the defense and special teams would not have let this team down, they would be in the thick of a playoff race. The Jets game was one of the worst losses I have ever seen. Being a Browns fan for 50+, that is saying something. If the defense just makes the jets go down the field one play at a time, they would not have had time to lose. If the special teams could recover and onside kick, they could not have lost. Then the defense then gives up another score. It was like watching a bad dream in slow motion. The offense scored 30 points. The Chargers loss was due to a missed field goal at the end of regulation. The offense scored 28 points. If they would have won both of those games this team would be 7-6 with a favorable schedule remaining. What needs fixed is the defense and special teams. If the 49ers had our defense and special teams even with the play of their 3rd string QB they would still lose games.

You just explained the difference between a HC and an OC.

I agree. I like Stefanski. I like his offensive scheme. I still believe you win by first running the ball and stopping the run. Most of the time the team that runs for the most yards in a game will win that game. It is just basic fundamentals. He needs to find someone that offensively thinks like him and let them run the offense. Then as Head coach he needs to find a Defensive Coordinator that will run a defense that compliments the offense. I think the special teams will improve as our young kicker grows. He has the leg talent, and he believes in himself. He just needs to add the consistency. If he gave up play calling duties, I believe he would be better focused on the entire team.

So. last year it was the QB's fault that kept the team from the playoffs. This year, it started out that the Browns are using a backup QB so playoffs are not likely unless he goes 6-5 or 7-4 but Brissett played the best of his career, Instead, the Browns won't make the playoffs because the defense and special teams are keeping us from making them. Common denominator each year - Stefanski is the OC playing HC. Stefanski and Berry have been together for 3 years now, why haven't they fixed the player issues that they have had since the beginning? All we hear on this forum is Stefanski is running things just like Shanahan except Shanahan is winning and Stefanski is not. Shanahan and Lynch drafted and built the 49ers defense, offense, and ST's. Shanahan's coordinators work for Shanahan and are accountable to him because he's the CEO (HC) of the team. In Cleveland it's Stefanski is a good play caller and look what he did with Brissett and Mayfield (2 years with a losing record mind you) and Woods is the reason the defense is so bad, and Priefer is the reason the ST's suck. The guy who's supposed to be responsible for everything gets a pass on this forum because he's playing good OC - terrible HC but a good OC. You want a good QB coach, give me a guy that won't except excuses and can take a 3rd string 7th round "Mr. Irrelevant " rookie and have him look like a Super Bowl contending QB. So, tell me how good Stefanski is running one of the most talented teams in the NFL? It sure isn't anything like Shanahan I can tell you.

I don't really disagree with you in the general sense. And actually a first time HC has his strong suit. They are usually either a former DC or a former OC. So their strong suit is usually on one side if the ball. The test then becomes can they make the transition to becoming a HC that commands the entire team. And I also agree that a big part of that is delegating responsibilities to his OC and DC. It's also to analyze the effectiveness of his entire coaching staff.

And that is an evolution that takes time. I think the concern with many fans is that they don't feel they see that evolution progressing. This is his third season and so far I must agree that watching him grow from what most see as an OC to a HC is a process that has not yet materialized. I actually like Stefanski. I would love to be able to say I've been witnessing him grow from an OC to what appears to be an overall HC. I'm not saying that I would expect him to be a finished product but some measurable progress towards that goal is something I would consider a reasonable expectation. .

It is hard to stay patient as a fan. I want to see this team in the playoffs badly. I feel we have a roster that is playoff caliber and Stefanski should look in the mirror and evaluate what is working and what needs changed because the buck does stop with him. With that said his teams have went 11-5, 8-9, and he should end up close to that again this year. That is the best sustained stretch we have had since coming back into the league. Just need the next level now!

j/c:

Stefanski is getting a pass? Wow!

We will finish 5-12. Bank it.

I wonder if Stefanski even feels bad about squandering so much talent. I wonder if he even cares.

No coach in maybe the history of the league has done less with more. He was given an abundance of riches as a first time head coach, a rarity in the NFL, and he squandered it away because he doesn't know how to be a head coach. He doesn't know how to win. He doesn't prioritize winning. He's good at standing in front of the team and saying things like "it's all about the work". No one on the team cares what he was to say. I'm starting to believe he has an arrogance to him that makes him just not care he is ruining the careers of Garrett, Chubb, Bitonio, Conklin.

It's pretty pathetic that a team with 5, yes 5, top 100 players, plus names like Cooper, Conklin, Clowney, and Hunt is heading toward a 5-12 season. It's almost hard to wrap your head around.

Is this an example of what steve said is guys giving Stefanski a pass?

Rish, what was the Browns record the year before Stefanski got here? The year before that? The two years before that? And I'll bet you $50 that we won't end up 5 and 12? That's not a lot, but a friendly little wager.

Sure, let's do a friendly wager. We can Zelle each other the money for the winner.

I'm feeling pretty confident about my chances. Balt has a ton play for this week. We haven't beaten the Steelers twice in the same season since I think 1988. And the Commanders and Saints aren't pushovers. You will see that this team will not play for Stefanski.

Cool!

Can I get in on this?

I'll take the over 5 wins... I'll even give you a $25 discount if it's only six!

Does anyone else find the title of this thread a bit disturbing?

.

Shanny is his ex-stripper.

I have to tell you; this is probably the saddest moment in Browns history. We actually have fans betting against one another as to whether a team that is loaded with elite talent is going to win 5 or 6 games in a season. To think, this is the team that some think will be Super Bowl contenders in 2023. You have to admire the confidence in the fan base when they're betting for you to get at least 6 wins - so sad.

I will give you the honest answer first, which is that I don't know.
I generally like Stefanski but I have a couple theories as to why this isn't working. Rest assured, I'm not making excuses for or against anybody here....

1. When our offense isn't on the field, Stefanski is still coaching as the HC. That means the other offensive staff (Run game coordinator, passing game coordinator, unit coaches, etc) has to be looking at the results and the defensive scheme and making whatever adjustments need to be made and then conveying that information to Stefanski so he can adjust the play calling accordingly. Maybe they aren't that good at making those adjustments or there is a disconnect in that process? Because when our offense seems to be clicking (ala Bengals 1) Stefanski has the defense on their heels and he looks like a genius. But when things aren't going well or we get bogged down, there doesn't seem to be anything that ever pulls us out of it and gets things going.

2. Stefanski is just bull-headed and unwilling to change what he thinks will work. I've argued with a number of people on here before when a Stefanski play didn't work in a key situation, others always seem to blame execution first, that any play will work if properly executed. There is a modicum of truth to that but if an NFL defense knows what's coming, they will stop it more often than not, even if it's executed well. There is a definite art to play calling and knowing when to go to your strength, when to mix things up and get creative.. plus 1000 little nuances of running a play. And I'm just not sure Stefanski has a great "feel" for that aspect of play calling.

3. This has been mentioned but, accountability. This goes for the O and the D. I just don't see the kind of fire and the leadership on this team to hold self and others accountable. Who are our leaders on the field? Who are the ones who won't accept the kind of mistakes we make? We have a ton of rahrah guys who cheerlead for each other and pat each other on the helmet when somebody makes a horrible mistake, but I just don't see the accountability aspect of that. Maybe it happens in private, no idea. But if it does, it hasn't stopped the bonehead mistakes from happening.

I see the talent argument brought up a lot.. we have talent. We have had talent for a few years now. I agree with the original premise that other coaches get more out of their talent than we do. We seem to play to our weakest link. Oh, our interior Dline is weak so we can be good. Oh, our starting and back-up center are out, we need them back so we can win a game. Other teams overcome injuries, we use them as an excuse. We fail to scheme around them cover up our weak spots. Every team has a weak spot or two, other teams scheme to protect them, we really don't. But lastly, we just don't finish. We've blown at least 3 very winnable games by just collapsing at the end. I don't know where to blame that.. play calling, accountability, focus, confidence and belief.... I don't know,

He's still here and he has too much talent to be so pathetic...yeah...he's still getting a pass.

Given the new face of the franchise...I'd call it appropriate.

With our concerns on defense and our inability to predict Watson’s future arc, there’s no way we are a super bowl contender next year IMO.

I disagree. I think we will be Super Bowl contenders next year. Not sure why people listen to other posters on this board who have been wrong time after time after time.

What makes you so sure? Is it because the Browns have Watson now? What about the other 10 players on offense and 11 on defense - have they been performing at a Super Bowl team level in 2022 or 2021? Watson's play aside, did the other 50 plus players, coaches, and FO for that matter show themselves as a championship caliber team these last 2-weeks? Don't you think that your comment is rather generic since with confidence, every team in the NFL believes they are Super Bowl contenders in 2023?

The only logical way anyone could make such a bold statement would be if they knew for a fact that the "ONLY" missing piece to keep the Browns from being a Super Bowl contender today has been addressed. That the current team - players, coaches, FO - would have been a Super Bowl contender this year if only had Watson played and that with him in the fold, the Browns as they stand today - no changes - are a bonafide Super Bowl contender as it stands.

If changes are necessary, as with every other team in the NFL, then we have no idea what type of product the Browns will have on the field in 2023 until the off season plays out. With 23 plus FA's on the roster, the draft, possible coaching or FO movement, past history and the failure to live up to expectations 2-years running, I would think that making a statement like the Browns are Super Bowl contenders just because they have Watson is wishful thinking if not just plain dangerous considering the Browns most recent history.

Truthfully, to say that the Browns have a key piece by having an elite QB would be accurate. To say that the Browns must have not only some key additions, but they must be "can't miss" additions then the Browns would be contenders would be also accurate. To say the Browns must upgrade the DC, HC, or FO positions would also be keys to the success or not but to be accurate, we have no idea what those or any other of the moves suggested might be. Super Bowl contenders, not with just the adding of Watson for sure.

Well the sad truth is the NFL, the U S A, and the world systems hate Ohio sports.
They do not provide a level playing field,
it might have used to have been different.

If you take a look at the Chargers game in 2020, the Jets game in 2020 the Raiders game in that year,

the Broncos game in which the Broncos missed the Fg after the "drive" only tied things but then went to the super bowl.

It is clear that whether it is Pittsburgh mafia, or New York bias, or California and West coast + Las Vegas bias, or south Florida bias
that Ohio will always get the short end

and what does it manifest as:: well there are a couple of games a year the Browns will be forced to lose, by the refs
if the Browns are having too much
or a certain level of success.

So you haven't been wrong time after time about many things? Come on man, you're allowing that superiority complex to show again.

There are issues that will have to be addressed to make this team a SB contender. Watson alone won't accomplish that. If this FO addresses them they could be SB contenders. If they don't address them this team won't be a SB contender. For either side to make claims whether they will or won't be SB contenders next season is far too premature at this juncture and based strictly on emotions.

Edit to add; You yourself believe the Browns will most likely replace Woods as DC. How quickly will the team adapt and be able to implement a new defense effectively? Will there be a solid interior on the DL so the Browns can stop the run effectively? There are more questions the team will need to address but I think you get the idea. As of this moment nobody really knows the answers until more of the questions are addressed.

Dawgs4Life has more than enough intellect, sports acumen, DT street cred and balance in his opinion to state it as such without you saying he's "listening to other people".

Good Lord.

I have been wrong and I own it when I am. For example, I did not like the Stefanski hire. He proved to me that he is a good coach and I have admitted I was wrong.

Can you define super bowl contenders.
Is it eleven wins, or winning 2 playoff games, or leading their division for half the year, or something else.

.. I guess I'd say, consistently talked about as one of the best 4 or five teams in the AFC would work for me as a definition.

or does just having a wide open shot of a 0 and 0 record at the start of the year e@ual a contender.

Your check bounced today.

I'm OK with that.

I'm here to collect! Just kidding, Rish. I don't want the money. I'm just happy that I/we won.

If that's what it takes to win I'll take one for the team every week and make a wager that they'll lose. I just want to win as well.

Most humbly question why you think the Browns will be
Super Bowl contenders next year?
I understand the QB position will be upgraded
But this team has more glaring holes than many want
To admit.
All I hear is how much talent this team has year after year
Yet it's another year no playoffs
I don't this team has intelligent players on defense
They lack physical players on defense
I really have no faith in Berry
How many gamechangers has Berry drafted ?
SB contenders have true game changers at every level
On the field

Well
s
If the Browns win out, nine and eight, and the Ravens lose all 3, Browns 2nd place in div. balt no playoff
if the Browns win out and the bengals lose 4 . Browns 2nd place in div. bungles no playoff

If the Jets, Patriots and ? lose the right games,, Chargers, and the Browns win out and the Raiders lose once, then the Browns could still get as high as any of the 3 wild card spots
and face a road >> road of at Buffalo, or KC, then At KC or Buffalo probably, and then at whomever is left, Cincy/Balt, Tenn or Jax, , or Balt/Cincy, or Dolphins and then get to the super bowl, this year.

It is effectively not happening. But mathematically? they only can't win the div. I think.
but the jets chargers and pats have to miss the playoffs.