DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Where are the finishers on this team?

We went to the playoffs with Butch - but I will always remember him for:

- the "stars not aligning" and how he handled or started the QB controversy
- Giving up a king's ransom to move up 1 spot and draft 'The Chosen One' - and not drafting Big Ben.
- Telling us James Jackson was a better RB than Clinton Portis (or trying to imply that with whatever BS he came up with at the time).

He did come from Miami, but before that he was a DC in Dallas. So, he had NFL coaching experience.

Corrected & Updated

Here's the Browns HC history. 22 HC hires after Paul Brown with only 3 having prior HC experience and none of those 3 having posted a winning record as a HC prior to coming to Cleveland. Only 5 coaches to date have posted winning records over the 59 years since Paul Brown: Blanton Collier 1963-1970 (79-38-2 @ .675), Gregg Williams 2018 (5-3-0 @.625), Schottenheimer 1984-1988 (46-31-0 @ .597), Nick Skorich 1971-1974 (30-26-2 @ .536) and currently Kevin Stefanski 2020-current (27-24-0 @ .529). The Cleveland Browns have never hired an experienced HC with a NFL winning record in the history of the Cleveland Browns. The Browns have hired 2 HC from the college ranks with no NFL experience: Paul Brown and Butch Davis. The current hit rate for hiring a HC coach that produces a career winning record is 19% (4/21) with the jury still out on Stefanski.


Name_________League____Years____Regular Season Records___Playoff Records__Combined Records__Prior HC Experience

Kevin Stefanski__NFL______2020 - ______25-23-0 (0.521)_____1-1-0 (0.500)____26-24-0 (0.520)______NONE - previous position Vikings OC
Freddie Kitchens_NFL______2019_________6-10-0 (0.375)_____0-0-0 (0.000)_____6-10-0 (0.375)______NONE - previous position Browns Interim OC
Gregg Williams__NFL______2018*________5-_3-0 (0.625)_____0-0-0 (0.000)_____5-_3-0 (0.625)______NONE - previous position Browns DC
Hue Jackson____NFL______2016 - 2018___3-36-1 (0.088)_____ 0-0-0 (0.000)_____3-36-1 (0.088)______1 year (Oakland 8-8), previous position CIN OC
Mike Pettine____NFL______2014 - 2015__10-22-0 (0.313)______0-0-0 (0.000)____10-22-0 (0.313)______NONE - previous position Bills DC
Rob Chudzinski_NFL_______2013________4-12-0 (0.250)______0-0-0 (0.000)_____4-12-0 (0.250)______NONE - previous position Panthers OC
Pat Shurmur___ NFL______2011 - 2012___ 9-23-0 (0.281)______0-0-0 (0.000)_____9-23-0 (0.281)______NONE - previous position Rams OC
Eric Mangini____NFL______2009 - 2010__10-22-0 (0.313)______0-0-0 (0.000)____10-22-0 (0.313)______3 years (NYJETS 23-26) - previous position NYJets HC
Romeo Crennel_NFL______2005 - 2008___24-40-0 (0.375)_____ 0-0-0 (0.000)____24-40-0 (0.375)______NONE - previous position New England DC
Terry Robiskie__NFL______2004*_________1-_4-0 (0.200)_____0-0-0 (0.000)_____1-_4-0 (0.200)______NONE = previous position Browns WR Coach
Butch Davis____NFL______2001 - 2004___24-35-0 (0.407)_____0-1-0 (0.000)____24-36-0 (0.400)______NONE - previous position U Miami HC (6 yrs-51-20)
Chris Palmer___ NFL______1999 - 2000____5-27-0 (0.156)_____0-0-0 (0.000)_____5-27-0 (0.156)______NONE - previous position Jacksonville OC
Bill Belichick___ NFL______1991 - 1995___ 36-44-0 (0.450)_____1-1-0 (0.500)____37-45-0 (0.451)______NONE - previous position NYGiants DC
Jim Shofner____NFL______1990*_________1-_6-0 (0.143)_____0-0-0 (0.000)_____1-_6-0 (0.143)______NONE - previous position Browns OC
Bud Carson____NFL______1989 - 1990____11-13-1 (0.458)____1-1-0 (0.500)_____12-14-1 (0.462)______NONE - previous position NYJets DC
Marty Schottenheimer____1984 - 1988____44-27-0 (0.620)____2-4-0 (0.333)_____46-31-0 (0.597)______NONE - previous position Browns DC
Sam Rutigliano_ NFL_____1978 - 1984____ 47-50-0 (0.485)____0-2-0 (0.000)_____47-52-0 (0.475)______NONE - previous position New Orleans WR Coach
Dick Modzelewski________1977*__________0-_1-0 (0.000)____0-0-0 (0.000)______0-_1-0 (0.000)______NONE - previous position Browns DC
Forrest Gregg__ NFL_____1975 - 1977____ 18-23-0 (0.485)____0-0-0 (0.000)______18-23-0 (0.485)_____NONE - previous position Browns Offensive Line Coach
Nick Skorich___ NFL_____1971 - 1974____ 30-24-2 (0.556)____0-2-0 (0.000)______30-26-2 (0.536)_____3 years (Philadelphia 15-24-3), previous position Browns Assistance Coach
Blanton Collier__NFL_____1963 - 1970____76-34-2 (0.691)____3-4-0 (0.429)______79-38-2 (0.675)_____NONE - previous position Browns Backfield Coach
Paul Brown_____NFL_____1950 - 1962___111-44-5 (0.691)____4-5-0 (0.444)_____115-49-5 (0.701)
Paul Brown____AAFC____1946 - 1949_____47-_4-3 (0.922)____5-0-0 (1.000)______52-_4-3 (0.929)____NONE - previous position prior to WWII (1944-45), Ohio State HC

Butch Davis spent time with the Dallas Cowboys from 1989-1994. DL coach and then DC.

But no NFL HC experience

Butch Davis did have NFL coaching experience before he was the HC of the Browns.

Yet still, no NFL HC experience prior to landing the Browns job.

No one is arguing about no HC experience. Not one single person. The debate started because mac stated that he did not want Leonhard as a HC because he had never coached in the NFL and it took off from there.

Arguing about a HC never being a NFL HC before would be a pretty stupid argument because obviously all head coaches have to get their first job before even thinking of getting a second opportunity. smh

Didn’t we hire Botch Davis from u of Miami? And frankly I don’t really care about this entire convo - it’s not important.

Exactly. A grand total of one of these (Shurmur) were hired as a HC after their time with the Browns, and he didn't last long, going 9-23. (I didn't count the Romeo and Shurmur interim coach stints).

Here is what I posted on page 2 of this thread, concerning the possibility of the Browns hiring Leonhard...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



vers is completely WRONG about what I posted and he MANUFACTURED a false narrative in his head that is not based in fact. I did not mention anything about Leonhard being a HC in the NFL...but I was concerned about Leonhard's lack of NFL 'COACHING' experience as it pertains to filling the Browns DC position should Woods be fired by the Browns.

No mac. I am not completely wrong. You are once again misreading my intent. I was not bad-mouthing you. You brought up a valid point. That's what started the conversation. What I am doing is challenging Pit's assertion that we have a history of hiring coaches w/no previous NFL coaching experience.

vers...Below is exactly what you made up and got 100% WRONG...



vers...Did I state that I did not want Leonhard as HC..?

Here is your shovel...you can keep digging or you can simply say that YOU WERE WRONG, the debate did not start because 'mac' didn't want Leonhard as a HC because he had never coached in the NFL.

I was wrong mac.

Not too long ago Jim Harbaugh went fro San Diego University (not San Diego State) to Stanford, to San Francisco, to Michigan.

I think he is a good coach that gets the most out of his team that he has to work with.. and I generally smile about his OSU record.

I think Leonard will be coaching at a major college or in the NFL soon. It was always stated during his playing days that he was a coach on the field.

Someone will take a chance and be rewarded.

j/c:

Quietly, Amari Cooper is having a very nice year. With one game remaining on the schedule, he has hauled in 76 receptions for over 1,100 yards and has scored 9 TDs. That's a real nice year considering that the team has had to prepare and play 2 qbs. I also like that he is not a "me" guy. Very quiet. Doesn't talk a whole lot. Not flashy. Just productive.

Berry has to receive some credit for making the trade. I know Amari had a large contract, but look at how WR salaries have exploded this year. Hell, Christian Kirk is making a fortune. I believe we traded two 5th round picks and swapped 6th round picks. That's a steal.

I don't know that I would go so far as to call it a steal. The size of his contract is the very reason the Cowboys weren't able to get more in a trade for him. But he has been very good and it was a good investment for a very good WR IMO.

I think it was a steal. I was high on Cooper before he was a Brown, he's done nothing but impress me as a Brown. He's a genuine #1 and for my money the best WR the Browns have had since the return with the exception of one season from Gordon when he was off the charts.

I'm basing my comment on what the market was for him at the time. He's certainly the best WR the Browns have had. I include Gordon in that because the player and the person go hand in hand. Ability go and and hand with availability. If your actions prevent you from being on the field you aren't that good. No player who by their own actions continually prevents themselves from being able to perform on the filed do I consider an asset you can count on. If teams in the NFL thought Cooper was worth more than the Browns were willing to pay and trade for him they would have done so. To me a steal is getting an unproven player who you get more out of than anyone would have expected you to or getting a great player at a bargain basement price. Cooper was a known commodity. What constitutes a steal I'm sure varies from person to person.

This is where Berry does his best work. He'll turn what looks like an expensive contract into an actual asset. A move like this helps us preserve carry-over cap for the 2023 FA bonanza. I'm not saying Cooper is cheap, and won't argue his actual 'market worth'; but considering his contract has no real negative impact -- I'd go ahead and stamp this deal "STEAL". jmo

As has been pointed out many times, you can kick the can down the road for a while. But watson was given a 5 year 230 million guaranteed contract. That 230 million has to be paid out and accounted for over that five year span. That 15 million saved this year is only 15 million that will still be paid and accounted for in the upcoming years of his contract. It just means he will cost even more against the cap later.

The Browns are pretty much paying market value for Cooper in his salary. I'm not sure how paying a player his actual value is a steal. I'm glad they got him. He's worth what they're paying him. They needed an actual #1 WR and he fits the bill. But he's also being well paid for it.