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anyone thinking Baker played good today and watson didn't really are either that clueless or just hate watson that much regardless of what he does. Baker : 11/19 for 132 yards and no scores or Ints for a whopping 79 rating.. Watson: 169 yards 3tds and no turnovers and a 122 rating. They literally had the same game with the exception that watson was able to score. Oh and baker has played in the last 700 days. Having expectations of Watson being the guy that led the league in passing right out of the gate in a new offense isn't realistic. I have never seen a former player in every single conversation on a message board as Baker is.. he's gone..time to move on


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My biggest concern with this team is it has a lack of talent on defense and zero leadership on that side of the ball. I think Berry and Depo need to go, I'd be willing to give Stefanski more time if they were replaced.. I feel like hes not able to do things he wants because of those two. But I also fear of a another year with stefanski wasting guys like chubb in their prime and still not getting where we need to go. Have to stop being satisfied with mediocre.. Just because stefanski is better than Hue doesn't mean he's good. I mean 3-4 years and we are playing .500 ball. That isn't going to get you anything.. Especially when you consider how much money we have invested and how little draft capital we have to get better


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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Lol that would be nice

That would be some fun, wouldn't it?

#24 is the kind of back who could do to PIT what Jamal Lewis did to CLE, back in the 2000's.
Truth be told, I wouldn't mind seeing this, just for my own greedy needs.

That said, I'd much rather see 24 playing fresh next season... and right now, he's a bit banged up after a long-ass year.

So- if he only manages 150-175... I guess I could be OK with it.


wink


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i1,m a baker guy. I do think Watson has some plus to him. Baker better than brisette. Better than 4-7


I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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Originally Posted by DeisleDawg
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted by Rishuz
jc...

Just read Saleh could be a surprise firing at the end of the year.

I'd take him in a heartbeat as DC.
Wow, that would be a surprise if they fired him

Why would it be a surprise ?
I was under the assumption that they were trending in the right direction and improved with a young core


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Just clicking

I spent the first half wondering what the hell we got into with Watson.... Horrible. But in the second half, he showed what he could be. Three td'S, No int's.. 9 of 18 sounds bad but in the end, it was fine.

I just am not convinced yet that he can do that for an entire season. Sure hope so. Your not going to be going against Wentz every week.


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Nope. But then again, Wentz wasn't playing D.


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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted by DeisleDawg
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted by Rishuz
jc...

Just read Saleh could be a surprise firing at the end of the year.

I'd take him in a heartbeat as DC.
Wow, that would be a surprise if they fired him

Why would it be a surprise ?
I was under the assumption that they were trending in the right direction and improved with a young core

They were 7-3 at one point and look like they could finish the season at 7-10. They have a couple of nice pieces, but the decision to draft Zack Wilson looks like it could sink that regime. Saleh put together a really inexperienced coaching staff of his buddies and his buddies's buddies. He says some pretty dumb stuff in pressers and it came out yesterday that the owner might not be a big fan.

I'd handicap it at less than 50%, but something Stefanski and them should keep an eye on. The one question I'd have is Demeco Ryans stepped in and picked up right where he left off so how much of it is really Shanahan.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I love Shanny, but he has nothing to do w/the defense. He's an offensive guy.

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I don't understand how a head coach can have nothing to do with a part of the team. Through two different DCs, they have rhe exact same aggressive, in your face, attacking, top 5 ranked D. While I'm sure Shanahan isn't micromanagung it, he has his fingerprints on it. He's a real head coach, not an OC masquerading as a head coach.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I didn't track it nor did I search for stats...but...it seems to me that the offense picked up when they started going under center more often and in the second half. I need to re-watch the game...but that's what I came away with.

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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I don't understand how a head coach can have nothing to do with a part of the team. Through two different DCs, they have rhe exact same aggressive, in your face, attacking, top 5 ranked D. While I'm sure Shanahan isn't micromanagung it, he has his fingerprints on it. He's a real head coach, not an OC masquerading as a head coach.

You are old school, that's why.

I am old school too but have some to the realization that the head coach more or less assumes whatever side of the ball he came from and the other coach is more or less the head coach of that side of the ball.

The days of Vince Lombardi are over.


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I'm going to start a thread about NFL head coaches, their responsibilities, and what players have to say regarding what makes a good HC. Let's say that some of these guys are going to be surprised.

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If you couldn't see that in the third Quarter Watson took this game over, you don't want to see it. He is beginning to look like the QB we know he can be.


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Originally Posted by Rishuz
I don't understand how a head coach can have nothing to do with a part of the team. Through two different DCs, they have rhe exact same aggressive, in your face, attacking, top 5 ranked D. While I'm sure Shanahan isn't micromanagung it, he has his fingerprints on it. He's a real head coach, not an OC masquerading as a head coach.

I can understand if KS is an offensive guy - why he would leave the Defense alone. If it was working. When it's not working - chronically, like the Brown's D early this year and early in other seasons - then I think they would get involved, if not in the scheme in asking the DC what the problem is, what he is doing to change and adjust to the issues. Let's face it KS isn't going to draw up defensive plays and schemes. He might use analytics to ask why we keep giving up plays out of certain formations or coverages etc. . . Regardless of how active or otherwise - Stefanski as the HC owns the performance of the entire team and all phases, not just the O.

I don't think the Commanders are a particularly good offense - though their running game has been decent. But doesn't the improved D with the same roster indicate that the early season struggles were not simply the Browns roster - and if we have picked up free agents or players f others practice squads and they are an improvement, what does that say about the coaches and Berry who settled on our 53 man roster in the pre-season?

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Originally Posted by DeisleDawg
3 TDs and no interceptions and a win in the 4th quarter is Horrendous?

Luckily yesterday we were playing a team whose back-up QB brought belated Christmas gifts for the Browns in the form of three int's. That was certainly helpful.

To me it was the tale of two halves by the O. The O stunk up the joint in the first half and rallied strong in the second half. We saw more longer passes from watson and that was good. There were some wide open targets but also some very good passes mixed in. I take it as a positive sign overall. The D seemed pretty solid overall and those gifts by Wentz were certainly helpful in that regard. Chubb had a good game as well.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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I'll take those gifts and the win. We've done that more than enough for other teams over the years!

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We’ve won the turnover battle in the past only to lose the game.
We won. Period. Watson had his part in that victory. As did the D. That’s what football TEAMS do.


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A win is a win and in most NFL games there are mitigating factors. Those mitigating factors just so happened to be in the Browns favor this time around. A nice change of pace actually.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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75 qb of this was Mayfield we would have burnt him at the stake.
This board is funny berry and stefanski have a worse record every year we due nothing.
75 qb rating he is clearly behind Mayfield this year.
Mayfield has shown a clear improvement sense leaving here while leshaun has shown his true colors.
This mgmt group felt leshaun would take kc,Cincinnati ,and Buffalo they should be fired if they honestly
Thought that.
Questions how many qb over a 30 year period finished with a 75 qb rating or lower
No need to answer silence is Golden.

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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Nope. But then again, Wentz wasn't playing D.

Geez, Thanks for clearing that up? Seriously, I know he wasn't playing D. I do know that he couldn't run the Washington Offense very well.. That isn't going to be the case week in and week out next season..

Of course, you know that, but you had to try to dig at me again.


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I was encouraged by Watson’s 2nd half yesterday, especially him using his legs more


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
I was encouraged by Watson’s 2nd half yesterday, especially him using his legs more

It was encouraging. I don't think long-term the issue will be Watson. It will be Watson with Stefanski. In half the games, Stefanski's schemes might work like they did yesterday. In the games they don't, we are lost. I don't think he knows what to do when the plays he draws up aren't successful or that his team can't execute them. I said this before and I believe this, Stefanski doesn't find fault with a single 3rd and short or 4th and short call where he had a QB air mailing with next to zero percent chance of success. He believes the execution was at fault. That is a clear example of not prioritizing winning. He doesn't. He won't. Watson will suffer for it. And so will all of the Browns fans.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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wentz was on defense every pic...


I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
I was encouraged by Watson’s 2nd half yesterday, especially him using his legs more

It was encouraging. I don't think long-term the issue will be Watson. It will be Watson with Stefanski. In half the games, Stefanski's schemes might work like they did yesterday. In the games they don't, we are lost. I don't think he knows what to do when the plays he draws up aren't successful or that his team can't execute them. I said this before and I believe this, Stefanski doesn't find fault with a single 3rd and short or 4th and short call where he had a QB air mailing with next to zero percent chance of success. He believes the execution was at fault. That is a clear example of not prioritizing winning. He doesn't. He won't. Watson will suffer for it. And so will all of the Browns fans.

I found it interesting that during the Saints game, they were talking about how much time Stefanski spent hanging out in the QB room. Not that I am against that, but KS said that he was bored, thats why he was spending so much time hanging out in the QB room.

Why doesn't he spend some time as head coach and offensive coordinator spending some time on situational football or clock management scenarios or hanging out in the other rooms also?

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I didn't catch that comment.


LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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3 points off 3 interceptions, that's kind of sad.


We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Once again, I don't think most people realize what the HC actually does for a team. Also, it's odd you mentioned clock management. He's probably the best in the league at it.

I will edit to add that I don't think most people understand who really does the coaching on NFL teams when it comes to working w/players.

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Yeah I found that comment odd too. He may have been saying it tongue in cheek but it was weird


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I don't think it was odd. It shows Stefanski is more actively involved w/the film breakdown than some other coaches, such as BOB.

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If I remember correctly people were saying Washington has a good D although I don't know where they're ranked. They're ranked 4th in YPG and they play in a pretty good division. Based on that our O did pretty well yesterday.

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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Once again, I don't think most people realize what the HC actually does for a team. Also, it's odd you mentioned clock management. He's probably the best in the league at it.

I will edit to add that I don't think most people understand who really does the coaching on NFL teams when it comes to working w/players.

Whatever Stefanski is doing or isn't doing isn't working. He's the worst coach in his division by a pretty large margin. His only good season he was gifted a situation that played into his administrative strengths with no pressure of playing in front of anyone. He pisses away early season opportunities only to hang on by a thread and when he really needs his team to rise to the challenge they play flat. Then we get a meaningless win and the pro Stefanski guys want to talk about how well coached the game was.

And now we don't know what his actual responsibilities are. Sounds like he just walks around the facility sipping coffee and asking for tps reports.

Can we expect more?


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Originally Posted by Rishuz
Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Once again, I don't think most people realize what the HC actually does for a team. Also, it's odd you mentioned clock management. He's probably the best in the league at it.

I will edit to add that I don't think most people understand who really does the coaching on NFL teams when it comes to working w/players.

Whatever Stefanski is doing or isn't doing isn't working. He's the worst coach in his division by a pretty large margin. His only good season he was gifted a situation that played into his administrative strengths with no pressure of playing in front of anyone. He pisses away early season opportunities only to hang on by a thread and when he really needs his team to rise to the challenge they play flat. Then we get a meaningless win and the pro Stefanski guys want to talk about how well coached the game was.

And now we don't know what his actual responsibilities are. Sounds like he just walks around the facility sipping coffee and asking for tps reports.

Can we expect more?

theyll bring in a new DC next year but not tell Woods, just have him move to the basement with his red swingline stapler


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Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Nope. But then again, Wentz wasn't playing D.

Geez, Thanks for clearing that up? Seriously, I know he wasn't playing D. I do know that he couldn't run the Washington Offense very well.. That isn't going to be the case week in and week out next season..

Of course, you know that, but you had to try to dig at me again.

It wasn't a dig so much at you, rather it was how the theme seemed to be that Wentz had a bad game.

My comment was more a matter of timing and not so much directed towards you.


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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Originally Posted by Damanshot
Originally Posted by Ballpeen
Nope. But then again, Wentz wasn't playing D.

Geez, Thanks for clearing that up? Seriously, I know he wasn't playing D. I do know that he couldn't run the Washington Offense very well.. That isn't going to be the case week in and week out next season..

Of course, you know that, but you had to try to dig at me again.

It wasn't a dig so much at you, rather it was how the theme seemed to be that Wentz had a bad game.

My comment was more a matter of timing and not so much directed towards you.

Well alrighty then! smile


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Rish, I like you and don't mean to be harsh. However, a few weeks ago we made a bet about the Browns record. I let you off the hook of having to pay. We are actually 2 and 1 since the time you said we would not win another game. Do you think you can save your trashing of Stefanski for other people and don't feed me that crap? Stefanski regularly outcoaches Taylor. I think we 4 and 1 or 5 and 1 against him. Again, I think you are going to be surprised when you see what the HC's duties actually are.

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J/c

I’ve actually been a fairly decent supporter of Stefanski … I do think his handling of the DC spot has cost him some credibility, and I haven’t loved some play calls in some spots this year. He does have some good aspects to him and I don’t think he should be fired.

A change in DC is needed IMO. I’m OK with seeing how we look next year at this time.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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