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We all go back and forth on this board giving our opinions and that's great because it leads to further discussion. We all have our views and opinions about what needs to be done before next season to make us winners. I've already given some of mine and won't repeat myself but I will say one thing. If we don't make some changes for next season, especially with the coaching, we will be right back here a year from now complaining about the same things. We know we need better players at certain positions, but we need better guys to coach them, or it will be same old same old. WE've had enough of that over the years.
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“There’s got to be better communication across the board,” Garrett said. “There’s got to be a steady dose of leadership from the top down. We’ve got to squash all this before it comes to a head like this. There shouldn’t be a lot of instances where stuff like this happens ... “ Teams best player calling out the coaching staff. But we should continue with the Stefanski experiment. He sounded like a clown in his presser yesterday. He acts like someone who is held to zero accountability and knows it. By this time next year we will all be a year older and more frustrated than even now.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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It seems to be defensive players doing all the talking, so I get the feeling any discontent with coaches is mostly limited to the defensive side of the ball. That is how I read in to the comments made.
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Rish I'm going back and forth about KS. I'd like to see what he can do with DW and that's where I'm at right now. After hearing all that's coming out with JC it seems KS has to get more involved on that side of the ball and exercise some authority Basically, he needs to get tougher If I'm reading all this correctly. JMO
Last edited by Homewood Dog; 01/07/23 12:30 PM.
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“There’s got to be better communication across the board,” Garrett said. “There’s got to be a steady dose of leadership from the top down. We’ve got to squash all this before it comes to a head like this. There shouldn’t be a lot of instances where stuff like this happens ... “ Teams best player calling out the coaching staff. But we should continue with the Stefanski experiment. He sounded like a clown in his presser yesterday. He acts like someone who is held to zero accountability and knows it. By this time next year we will all be a year older and more frustrated than even now. Wow, so Stefanski suspends one DE for calling out the coaches and the other DE does the same thing and he's a hero. Garrett is right about one thing though, "There's got to be a steady dose of leadership from the top down," clearly meaning it isn't present now!
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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I base most of my opinion of Stefanksi on what is known and seen. He is the HC, not the OC. I look at the talent level compared to the W/L record. I watch him prove his OC skills by managing to get a top 10 offense with Brissett at QB while watching that turn into a 4-7 record because the defense flails like a fish thrown on the shore. I watched one player, Clowney get sent home for negative statement to the media about the team. And while other players comments weren't as egregious, no punishment was doled out. That's certainly a lack of any consistency.
Are those enough reasons to replace the HC? Maybe not. But the bar should certainly be set higher moving forward at the very least.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Rish I'm going back and forth about KS. I'd like to see what he can do with DW and that's where I'm at right now. After hearing all that's coming out with JC it seems KS has to get more involved on that side of the ball and exercise some authority Basically, he needs to get tougher If I'm reading all this correctly. JMO If you have to say those things about the HEAD coach, what does that tell you? Clowney even said they don't prioritize winning, which is what I've been saying all season. That comment got ignored by everyone on here. I don't have any inside information. Don't know any players or coaches on the team. Don't have anyone feeding me inside scoop. But I know what I'm watching and feeling. Heck, I called this BEFORE the season that Stefanski was not a good head coach. By this time next year, I will be proven right and I am disgusted by it. I don't want to be right. I just want to win games. I just want to root for a winner. I want to root for an organization that prioritizes winning, not one that makes decisions to retain coaches based on arbitrary reasons like "he deserves a year to work with Watson". That doesn't even make any sense. There is a bona-fide coach who is dying to get to the NFL and I bet we won't even talk to him. I just want winning to be a priority. So sick of this clown show.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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It seems to be defensive players doing all the talking, so I get the feeling any discontent with coaches is mostly limited to the defensive side of the ball. That is how I read in to the comments made. I agree with you. At that point I guess one must decide exactly what the job of a HC consists of. I think the HC is supposed to be in charge of an entire team and the coaches that work under him. If not he's nothing more than a glorified OC or DC.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Wow, so Stefanski suspends one DE for calling out the coaches and the other DE does the same thing and he's a hero. Garrett is right about one thing though, "There's got to be a steady dose of leadership from the top down," clearly meaning it isn't present now! What Clowney said and what Myles said are world's apart.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I hear what you're saying. On one hand I see your points and on the other hand I want to see what KS can do with DW. I guess I wouldn't make a good HC either!!!!
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Since their rebirth in 1999, does anyone know if the Browns have had a better record in any three year period than Stefanski has? Hell, I think we have to go all the way back to the years of 1985, 1986, and 1987 to find a better three-year stretch. Here, take a look for yourselves: https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/year-by-year-results
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Wow, so Stefanski suspends one DE for calling out the coaches and the other DE does the same thing and he's a hero. Garrett is right about one thing though, "There's got to be a steady dose of leadership from the top down," clearly meaning it isn't present now! What Clowney said and what Myles said are world's apart. That's your opinion and my opinion differ in that both instances were detrimental to the team. You don't have to like my opinion and that's fine but calling out the coaches in public is the same no matter the delivery. This has been going on since October with no repercussions until now.
Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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Wow, so Stefanski suspends one DE for calling out the coaches and the other DE does the same thing and he's a hero. Garrett is right about one thing though, "There's got to be a steady dose of leadership from the top down," clearly meaning it isn't present now! What Clowney said and what Myles said are world's apart. That's your opinion and my opinion differ in that both instances were detrimental to the team. You don't have to like my opinion and that's fine but calling out the coaches in public is the same no matter the delivery. This has been going on since October with no repercussions until now. You just want something to validate everything you've been ranting about. You're blinded by your own bias. If you can't see the difference between Clowney's comments and everything else this season; you're blind, period.
HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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He called out another player (Browns best defensive player) as well and that is way worse, in my opinion, and why he was sent packing.
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j/c:
Other players have received consequences for their actions this year. No way is Clowney the first.
I brought this up on another thread, but who can name a team that never has any internal issues? These things happen all the time to every freaking team. Acting like the Browns have poor leadership due to some comments that are quite commonplace across the NFL reeks of some trying to hard and others buying into that nonsense.
I think the time to point out a coach having lost his team and not having leadership abilities is when the said team QUITS on the coach. We saw it happen here w/Chud, RAC, and even Freddie to a lesser degree.
This team has not quit. They very easily could have. Other teams have. We have not. Stefanski still has this team playing hard and caring about the results of the contests.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 01/07/23 01:07 PM.
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j/c... Something not adding up here as far as the "only 3rd downs" saga...
Clowney left at the end of the first half with a "head injury"... to that point there were only 9 Baltimore 3rd downs and he played 22 snaps.
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There is so much crap out there that I'm a bit confused. Did the 3rd down thing happen against Baltimore or Washington? I thought it was the latter, but I didn't really scrutinize the tweet.
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Since their rebirth in 1999, does anyone know if the Browns have had a better record in any three year period than Stefanski has? Hell, I think we have to go all the way back to the years of 1985, 1986, and 1987 to find a better three-year stretch. Here, take a look for yourselves: https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/year-by-year-resultsClaiming mediocrity is better than sucktitude isn't very strong ground to be standing on.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I thought it was Washington as well. Then I looked and saw he played 74% of the snaps (51).
Had to be Baltimore, he was in concussion protocol the week after.
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I have to look at it again.
I do have to say the coach should have kept his mouth shut about it. Just like Stefanski did and provide some comment that gives the press nothing to talk about other than how boring and bland he is.
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I hear what you're saying. On one hand I see your points and on the other hand I want to see what KS can do with DW. I guess I wouldn't make a good HC either!!!! I don't begrudge anyone wanting Stefnaski to stay. I'm actually on the fence about that myself. Fulfilling the role of OC he has done very well. But I mean he had the O playing as a top 10 offense with Brissett at QB. That resulted in a 4-7 record. The odds of achieving the ultimate goal here will take both sides of the ball. Watson alone isn't the answer to everyone's prayers.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I'm gonna look for the play where Clowney "hurt his head".
If I were a betting man, I would bet things went something like this...
Garrett was getting moved around more than Clowney liked and it came toa a head during the Ravens game.
Clowney then said he could only play third downs (his "injury" only bothers him on first and second), that was probably well into the second quarter.
When his wish wasn't granted, he got a "head injury" and had to skate off before halftime.
The Browns put him in concussion protocol and he missed the next game.
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j/c:
Other players have received consequences for their actions this year. No way is Clowney the first. And it was pointed out that when you are talking about the same infraction, players making negative comments to the press about the team, only one player who committed such an infraction was given punishment and publicly for said infraction.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c:
Other players have received consequences for their actions this year. No way is Clowney the first. And it was pointed out that when you are talking about the same infraction, players making negative comments to the press about the team, only one player who committed such an infraction was given punishment and publicly for said infraction. You think Clowney's comments are the same as all the others??
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No I don't. They are at different levels of the same infraction. But none the less they are infractions of the very same thing. There are different levels for everything. Punishments are set depending on the level of the infraction. That doesn't mean an egregious infraction deserves the ultimate punishment and a somewhat lesser infraction deserves nothing. We never heard so much as a peep from this coaching staff or any public punishment announced when any other player other than Clowney made negative comments about this team to the press. And i think it would be quite ingenious for people to pretend those other comments were innocuous because they certainly weren't.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It seems to be defensive players doing all the talking, so I get the feeling any discontent with coaches is mostly limited to the defensive side of the ball. That is how I read in to the comments made. But they've been doing it all year, along with the multiple players only meetings to "improve communication". That is a real problem. It was up to the HC to put a stop to the dysfunction and KS didn't have the leadership skills to do it. He should have canned Woods early on when it was evident the D was a rudderless ship. On a related note, that one snap suspension was hilarious.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
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Since their rebirth in 1999, does anyone know if the Browns have had a better record in any three year period than Stefanski has? Hell, I think we have to go all the way back to the years of 1985, 1986, and 1987 to find a better three-year stretch. Here, take a look for yourselves: https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/history/year-by-year-resultsClaiming mediocrity is better than sucktitude isn't very strong ground to be standing on. None the less, you usually don't go from sucking to being great. There is usually a process in between. Is the process taking longer than anticipated? No doubt, at least as far as many fans are concerned. I have long held that anything less than a Super Bowl win is a failed season, and I still maintain that position. However, that doesn't mean you suck. It just means you didn't attain the goal. I am convinced that we could lose the Super Bowl and the same group of fans would be moaning about this or that and how we will never win unless we change this or that.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Punishments are set depending on the level of the infraction. Myles was driving 74 in a 70 MPH zone with his comments, while Clowney was driving 95 in a 70. Big difference.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Noticed this morning that the Jags won last night and are in the playoffs. Just pointing that out here because they have a new coach in his 1st year with them. Illustrates 2 points: 1, Coaching matters. We need to make the right decision on keeping/replacing Stefanski. I don't know what that right answer is. I just know we need to make a right decision on a HC someday. 2, Changing coaches isn't necessarily a setback. True most 1st year HC's have crappy records but there is a reason the coach they replaced got fired. I won't list out thise reasons. As Browns fans we have live through most of them these past 20 years. 
Am I perfect? No Am I trying to be a better person? Also no
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Stefanski is going to be back as HC and deservedly so.
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A Head Coach with back to back 8-9 records (at best) should never feel comfortable. I think he'll be back, though. Whether or not he "deserves" to be back, that is somewhat questionable.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I would add that I think we will have a large number of coaching changes among the assistants.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I feel he deserves another season also like I said to see what he can do with DW. His QB situation this year and last was a mess and our O still was pretty good. I would want another season with a better QB and a healthy one if I were him. Honestly through all the turmoil with our QB position if our D could have stepped up a little, we would have had a winning record this year and maybe last. It really hasn't been the O so much as the D. Oh, and Special teams play cost us a game or 2 if I may add.
Last edited by Homewood Dog; 01/08/23 10:25 AM.
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I think folks are forgetting a couple of things.
First, he was Coach of the Year in 2020. He inherited a team that was a mess. They were undisciplined and lacking any sort of identity under the guidance of Freddie Kitchens. Not only did Stefanski bring some sort of order, discipline, and establish an identity.....he did it during the Covid year where all the new coaches were faced w/a much tougher task than returning coaches. Installing entire new schemes is no easy task, but to do it w/such a limited amount of real practice time is actually incredible.
Secondly, I wonder how many coaches could have kept their team focused and competitive while enduring the circus of the situations w/Watson and Baker? The FO and ownership pretty much left Stefanski to deal w/all the media interactions. The entire organization was under fire for signing Watson and Kevin was left to deal w/the media onslaught. Also, a very popular QB was on his way out and drawing attention to himself w/podcasts and other "look at me" situations. Look at this board and there are still people who are bitter about the Baker situation.
Next, he had to somehow prepare two "starting" QBs during camps and figure out an offense that was friendly enough for both guys to succeed, despite them having very different skill sets, strengths, and weaknesses.
Finally, we have 7 wins w/one game to play. A game in which we can sweep the season series w/the hated Steelers. People are acting like we are 4 and 12. We are not. Hell, some of the Baker fans are telling us what a great coach Sean McVay is. Well, his team won the Super Bowl last year and are now 5 and 10 and underdogs in their season final. Did McVay suddenly forget how to coach? Or, is it more likely that team-wide circumstances were more important that the coach when it comes to the record?
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 01/08/23 11:06 AM.
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A Head Coach with back to back 8-9 records (at best) should never feel comfortable. I think he'll be back, though. Whether or not he "deserves" to be back, that is somewhat questionable. Just an FYI, I was watching the NFL Network early this morning and they were questioning the Browns performance under Stefanski but more importantly the extremely slow start by Watson. It was made a point that the 300-day layoff is being used as a crutch considering what other teams are doing with much less talented QB's. As far as the NFL QB Rankings entering Week 18: #7 Brock Purdy SFO, 4-0 record, Completion pct - 66.0%, Started 0-games in NFL the last 3-years entering 2022 season, Rookie. Telling stat: He's averaged at least 8 yards per attempt, and thrown at least two TDs, in all four of his starts. #10 Geno Smith SEA, 8-8 record, Completion pct - 70.2%, Started 3-games in NFL the last 3 years entering 2022 season. Telling stat: After totaling four turnovers in the Seahawks' first eight games (5-3 stretch), he's totaled nine (six INTs, three fumbles lost) in the eight games since (3-5 stretch). #16 Deshaun Watson CLE, 3-2 record, Completion pct - 56.7%, Started 31-games in NFL the last 3-years entering 2022 season. Telling stat: Despite a three-TD breakout in Week 17, Watson ranks 31st among all QBs to start at least five games, ahead of only the Jets' Zach Wilson, in completion percentage (56.7%). #18 Kenny Pickett PIT, 6-5 record, Completion pct - 64.4%, Started 0-games in the NFL last 3-years entering 2022 season, Rookie. Telling stat: After throwing eight INTs in his first five games, the rookie has thrown just one in his last seven, while logging three fourth-quarter comebacks and four game-winning drives since mid-November alone. #19 Jarrett Stidham LVR, 0-2 record, Completion pct - 63.9%, Started 0-games in the last 2-years entering 2022 season, never a start until 2022. Telling stat: He needed just one start to accomplish something Derek Carr did not in 2022: throw for 310+ yards. NFL coaches fired in 2022Matt Rhule, Panthers (replaced by Steve Wilks) - 3rd place NFC South Frank Reich, Colts (replaced by Jeff Saturday) - 3rd place AFC South Nathaniel Hackett, Broncos (replaced by Jerry Rosburg) - Last place AFC West NFL coaches on the hot seatKliff Kingsbury - Arizona, Record 4-12, last place NFC West Lovie Smith - Houston, Record 2-13-1, last place AFC South Ron Rivera - Washington, Record 7-8-1, last place NFC East Kevin Stefanski - Cleveland, Record 7-9, last place AFC North Josh McDaniels - Las Vegas, Record 6-11. 3rd place AFC West
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None the less, you usually don't go from sucking to being great. There is usually a process in between. I certainly agree with you that in mast cases you are correct. Rarely does a team go from a zero to a hero even though on occasion that does happen. Here's the thing about such a process. It usually has an upward trend. It takes an upward trend over a few years to make it happen. But let's take a look at how that has played out thus far... 2020- 11-5 2021- 8-9 2022- 7-9 I'm not sure that's the process you were trying to promote. Are you saying that after three years of that not happening we should act like the last three years didn't happen and the process starts now?
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So...you are saying (actually admitting) that team-wide circumstances likely impact a team's performance? That must be a new thing for the 2022 season. [/sarcasm]
On the contrary, I don't think most posters are forgetting anything.
Last year those ^ "circumstances" were excuses...yet this year they are "reasons"...in reality...there were both excuses and reasons THIS year AND last year. The question is when & how does the carousel come to an end?
Look at the new coaches across the NFL whose teams are in the playoffs. Look at teams like the Lions who went from being as moribund as the Browns but now are playing well and are an interesting team to watch.
So it CAN be done...and yet here we sit with reasons and excuses as to why we can't seem to be that ourselves...with internal strife and exposed dirty laundry for the second straight year...and a losing record.
No one has forgotten any of that.
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Punishments are set depending on the level of the infraction. Myles was driving 74 in a 70 MPH zone with his comments, while Clowney was driving 95 in a 70. Big difference. He was going quite a bit faster than that. Once again, the punishment certainly shouldn't have been equal. But not a peep came out of the coaching staff about such negative comments when other players were doing it. Here is something I have considered however. There is certainly a cumulative effect to be considered here. With Clowney having not only made such comments but his refusal to play on 1st and 2nd downs it's only understandable that his punishment be severe. I think that's an easy conclusion to draw. I do however contend that if you wanted players to stop making public comments about disapproval of what is going on behind the scenes that should have been spelled out when it all began.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,913 |
Isn't it odd how a single season can change things? Only last year Vers would be calling what he posted "a list of excuses". Only he's the one comprising such a list now. As is plain to see it's not about excuses verses reasons. It's about who the subject is centered around.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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