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One would think that evolution will begin when it comes to the point that watson gets back up to speed. Six games sure didn't do it so we'll have to wait to see when and if things progress to the point that evolution can begin. We saw the coaching staff try to begin that evolution yesterday when one looks at the run/pass ratio. But as the results indicated, they aren't ready for that yet.

Good point about the evolution of the offense. I brought it up in the Recap thread I started. They are looking at things that work and don't work.

There is no doubt that we will become a passing team, much like the Chiefs, Bills, Bengals, and others. I do think we will still have a very good to great running game due our ZBS and teams finally having to worry about our passing game.

I am hoping with a whole offseason for DW that we'll have a much better offense next year... DW showed flashes of himself and improved each game... but our offense was not where it needs to be...

We need to really develop a plan for watson and chubb to co-exist. They don’t necessarily “fit” together from what I’ve read and witnessed. To me, that’s integral to our offense’s success.

I also think finding a WR who can separate opposite Cooper is important too

I think we witnessed the beginning of that plan yesterday... 5 rec / 45yds and a TD.

Very well could be

I'll be a believer when I see elite DW. Right now, mostly because it's the Browns, I got a bad feeling about DW being all-in or getting back to top form. I missed about a game and three-quarters of DW playing in his games. The guy I saw will be lucky to get us to 500. If we're being honest, we all know we should be very good to great at QB now, but how many of you saw DW's games and came away feeling "100% playoffs next year, baby!"? I know I'm feeling more like "I'll believe it when it materializes" myself.

I feel the same way. The team will be adjusted around Watson.

Just 2 quick thoughts on change are that we need a quick twitch receiver. That guy who gets open quickly and one who can adjust on a dime as Watson adjusts to pocket pressure.

I also think Chubbs role will change a great deal. We actually saw him in the passing game against the Steelers because that is what he is going to have to do as time goes on. He is still going to run the ball, but not as much or in the same way. I think if people are expecting Chubb to get 25 carries a game they are going to be disappointed. He might get 10-15 carries a game. If it goes higher it's because we are ahead and trying to run clock.

I am somewhat in the same boat, the same one Broncos and Colts fans are ..... that being .... as the great philosophers Rufus and Chaka Khan once sang, "show me something good".

Right now I have one good half out of 6 starts to instill confidence. Those results are simply not enough.

Everything you wrote is exactly as it SHOULD be. How much of it comes into fruition - the journey getting there - the ability to overcome setbacks and challenges - all of that is to be determined and will play out over the next 12 months. Enough concerns with both KS and DW to have some reservations for anyone I would think - for some the issues they see are more like impossible limitations to overcome, but I prefer your outlook because the offseason and preseasons are long roads to travel if we are devoid of a little hope. We need the stars to align ! Here's hoping. I think the defense will be okay provided we get the right guy - Schwartz and Flores top my list.

j/c:

Deshaun Watson: Browns offense will look ‘totally different’ in 2023; will talk ‘man-to-man’ with Kevin Stefanski

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/20...alk-man-to-man-with-kevin-stefanski.html

Thanks for the article. I'm excited about this team moving forward. This is the first time since our rebirth that we have an elite QB. We also have a brilliant offensive HC who has a great scheme that is QB friendly. We have an excellent OL coach and our ZBS is great, thus we will always have a top-tier running game even as we evolve more into a passing team that will allow us to compete w/the big boys in our conference. I also loved hearing Watson's comments about how much he loves it here.

I am agreeing with those who are saying Chubb will be much more involved in the pass game. I think that’s gotta happen

I heard on the radio today that Watson will be staying at the team facility over the off-season. If true, he would be the only QB (other than Hoyer, who lived in Cleveland) to stay in town for the off-season. We've had guys who would have been on the first plane out of Hopkins yesterday.

Just curious. Do you think the last game when he threw 2 int's was an improvement? I do agree that up until that point he did show some gradual improvement. The last half of the Washington game he looked great. But those 2 int's against the Steelers were not good. It's not as if they were deflected passes or anything. On one, one of two things went wrong. He either overthrew the underneath WR's or he threw directly into triple coverage. The other one he stared down the WR from the time the ball was snapped. It made it easy to read where he was going with the ball. As such the defender jumped the route for an easy pick. Either way they were on him. I'm not saying that's an indictment of DW. I'm saying I don't think the way you presented it was accurate.

If he isn't, it's because he can't do it, at which point we will seek another back.

Things change.

I'm happy he's our quarterback going into next season.

And it's reassuring to think he's doing it to make up for time lost and be a part of the evolving offensive playbook.

But I also think it's a good PR and image look strongly suggested by those he employs to handle his career.

Jmho

Oh, and as a sort of off-topic aside, Hoyer was the one QB I rooted the most for since The Return.

I think everytime the Browns retool the offense with a new QB
In recent history there is always a measure of excitement and positivity
But I wouldn't go so far to call KS "brilliant" regarding his offensive mind.
I think brilliant applies to offensive minds who are innovative
And are always ahead of the curve.
I think anyone who is expecting the Browns offense to be Top 5 or 7
Next year might be in for a letdown
To have a offense to be explosive as the Chiefs Bills and Bengals
It takes time and talent. Not just talent talent but unique
Special talents. Those offenses were not built overnight

Didn't JFF hire an ex-coach to live with him and stay here during the offseason? Doesn't that count? Hope it turns out better, just saying.

I don't remember that, which does not mean it didn't happen.

The remark about being the only QB other than Hoyer also came from that radio report, not my recollection (which I would not trust). However, just because it was on the radio does not make it the truth, either.

If true, Watson staying in Cleveland is positive news no matter how anyone tries to twist it. Thanks for posting that information.

Chubb has shown he is a very capable Receiver out of the backfield ...

Agreed. I've always wondered why people say he isn't good at receiving.

Capable may not be what the Browns are hoping to achieve with their backfield. Chubb had 27 catches on 37 targets for 239 yards this past season, the most since 2019. With the Browns evolving to a passing offense, they might be looking at getting more out of the RB position in the passing game. Ekeler 17 starts had 107 receptions for 722 yds in 2022, McCaffrey 16 starts for 85/741, Fournette 9 starts for 73/523, Stevenson 7 starts for 69/421, or Mixon 14 starts for 60/441.

The question will be then, can Chubb evolve into the dual threat RB these other players have developed into? Can Chubb be the 3-down back going forward since most of his career he hasn't been used that way? Lots of decisions coming this off season.

Chubb doesn't need to evolve into that, he just needs the touches. Chubb has averaged about 25 rec over the last three years. That number can easily be 45-50... if that's what you're looking for. Chubb's average per reception is higher than everyone on that list -- three years in a row, actually. I don't think the load is too big either, that's three a game average and he's still right around 20 touches total.

If you're looking to "achieve something different" with your backfield, I don't think we need to wonder about Chubb's "capabilities". JMO

As far as getting more out of the backfield as part of our offensive/ passing scheme, I'm with you 100. Not concerned about the "3rd down back" thing though, I think that's the least of our worries.

He is inconsistent at best and certainly subpar to other backs that routinely catch passes out of the backfield. But he is not asked to do a lot of that. His pass-catching, to me at least, is one of his biggest weaknesses.

Let's analyze that.

Chubb - 8.87 ypc.
Ekeler - 6.75 ypc
Mccaffrey 8.72 ypc
Fournette - 7.1 ypc
Stevenson - 6.1 ypc
Mixon - 7.35 ypc.

Tells me Chubb CAN, and does catch the ball when giving the opportunity, and makes yards as well.

Edited to correct Chubb's ypc. Originally I had it at 9.

I did not say anything in reference to what he has done as being negative. I referenced that he is significantly behind in receptions compared to the RB's that are considered dual threat. The importance of being a true 3-down back is that you can keep the defense guessing. For Chubb to triple or quadruple the number of receptions and yardage to much more than he has ever had since coming to the NFL is going to be a significant challenge for him and the team. Add into the fact that his running style of being a one cut downhill runner isn't conducive to a receiver means adjustments will be critical for his success to be a every down threat out of the backfield. Example, how many times did the Browns run an empty set with Chubb in one of the slots? That's a common set for those other teams and the player has to be a threat to run any pattern. Not saying Chubb cannot do it, I'm saying it would require a significant change from the way he's been used since entering the league.

Chubb can catch. He wasn't given the opportunity. Look at your own numbers. He had 27 receptions. The others? 107, 85, 73, 69, 60.

When you get taken out of the game for Hunt on passing downs, it's tough to get the passes, isn't it?

That's exactly what I have been saying. If Chubb is going to achieve those type of numbers, then there has to be a change in the way he has been used in the past. Then the question none of us know for sure is if Chubb can be the type of dual threat RB that can not only excel in this type of role but have the stamina to compete as that type of player. It's one thing to play as a safety valve/screen pass receiver than it is to be an additional WR type lined up in the slot running drags, seam routes, hooks, or sideline go routes and creating separation.

Looking at some advanced stats... Chubb's stats are always gaudy once the ball is in has hands. Drop rate? Not very good, he's over 10%.
The sweet spot for good backs that have plenty of balls thrown at them is about 4.5 - 7% And there are plenty of solid backs between 8 and 12, so it's not like he sucks (for the record, Hunt was not much better at all), but 10% is not good.

I figured while I was there I'd look drop rate for the whole roster:

Chubb 10.8
Hunt 9.1
Bryant 11.9
Njoku 3.8
Bell 8.6
Schwartz 20.0 🤣
People-Jones 2.1
Cooper 9.1

Solid rate for the best WRs is 2.5 - 7%
DPJ's 2.1, on 96 targets, is elite.

Very interesting post - to take it a little further, how does Chubb stack up against the top dual threat RB's drop rate:

Ekeler 7.1
McCaffrey 4.6
Fournette 4.8
Stevenson 8.0
Mixon 4.0
Chubb 10.8

See, we agree.

As you said, it not a matter of being capable. It's a matter of being very good in that role.

I know that throwing anything close to shade at Chubb isn't very popular, but it is what it is.

No offense to anyone's opinion, but I think too much is being made of this. A lot of us agree that the offense is going to evolve now that we finally have a good qb and we can incorporate things to open up the offense. I do see us throwing more short passes to Chubb like we did in the season final. I do see us being less dependent on him. I do not think he is the same type of RB as a guy like McCaffrey. So, there is a lot of agreement.

Where I break off from the seemingly popular line of thinking is I say "so what?' Chubb is still going to be a force. He is still going to produce. We don't need him to be McCaffrey. We need him to take advantage of running behind a very good OL and find holes in the defense because teams will no longer be able to stack the box because our qb and offensive scheme will be able to exploit that. He will still be a force in close games. He will still be a force in "weather" games. He will still be important to our team. And perhaps the best news is that his career will be extended because he won't be asked to do as much. For example, Chubb had the 3rd most carries in the entire league with 302 yards this past season. People on here were screaming that he needed more touches. I disagree. I think that is too many carries. Playing RB is so physically taxing. No one takes more big, violent, and clean hits that RBs do.

Thanks. JMHO, I look at Chubb as a one cut downhill runner who's great in the current offensive scheme (when he's used), but he hasn't displayed the agility to date that would make you think he could change his game to the point where he's getting triple or quadruple the targets in offensive sets (and route patterns) he's unaccustomed to running. Capable yes, very good in the role - question mark at this time.

He's another issue that I think is cause for concern going forward. I would say that it is safe to say that heading into the off season the team has the following question marks: Defensive Coordinator, Interior Defensive line, 1 defensive end, linebackers, safety, defensive depth, defensive scheme, offensive line depth, center, WR (again), offensive scheme. Every team wants to go into the off season with as few question marks as possible. The Browns have quite a few question marks that need addressed and it appears they might have just added another question mark with the proposed change in the use of the RB in the new scheme.

With only 2 picks in the first 3-rounds of the draft with one of those possibly being a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd round, addressing the monster number of needs via the draft is highly unlikely. That leaves either FA or trades to address all the open items. With being 12.175M over the cap at this time - Berry is going to need to restructure many contracts thus kicking that can down the road again that will eventually cause great havoc for the Browns. For those who continue to discount my concerns remember this, the Browns finished 2022 with almost 31M in excess cap to roll over into 2023. As on today, with the players the Brown have under contract, the Browns are currently 12.175M over the cap for 2023 even after applying the roll over cap from 2022. The Browns have to be under the cap number by the start of the new league year. The new league year presents the Browns with 21 Unrestricted FA's, the draft class, and any additional FA signings and must have the available cap to even participate in free agency. Even if the Browns signed every one of the 21 FA's to the league minimum of $750,000 (2023 NFL Minimum), the Browns would have to free up 28M of their existing cap just to sign all 21 FA's to the league minimum. Look for some big contract restructures coming and fan favorites leaving to manage the cap. This is what happens when you kick the can down the road - eventually you have to show that cap cost.

Side note: the Browns are currently ranked 27th in cap available for 2023.

32. New Orleans - minus 63.59M
31. Tampa Bay - minus 49.59M
30. Jacksonville - minus 24.0M
29. Tennessee - minus 21.75M
28. LA Chargers - minus 15.84M
27. Cleveland - minus 12.175M

That's because the Browns have been using the RB's to run the ball. Yes his catches are behind other RB's, but so were the attempts to pass him the ball. When they have thrown him the ball he has done well with it. You seem to be trying to indicate he has limitations in the passing game that is a result of the play calling rather than his actual ability to catch the ball. When the play calling has required him to catch the ball he has done fine job of it.