DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Off-season upgrades

Bone, I didn't say that cap couldn't be created but again you're talking about kicking the can down the road with Watson and JJ3.

A post June 1st cut would indeed save the Browns 9.75M in cap this year. What you are not telling though is what the cap hit is for JJ3 in future years because of the prorated bonuses and post June 1 cut and dead money.

JJ3 Cap Costs
2023 - 3.75M
2024 - 8.85M
2025 - 5.10M Dead Money
2026 - 1.35M Dead Money
All this has to count against the cap even though JJ3 will be gone.

Restructuring Watson's salary again will indeed save the Browns 35.936M but again, you're not telling the whole story.

Watson Cap Costs with another restructure
2023 - 19.057M
2024 - 63.997M
2025 - 63.997M
2026 - 63.997M
2027 -_ 8.984M - Void Year

In this scenario, the Browns will have around 100M in cap charges in 2024 for just Watson and Garrett.

Would love D-Hop... he's a great WR and has chemistry with Watson already... not sure we could get him but he'd be a great add on the offensive side...

He's trying to hijack the thread. I'm pretty sure lamp wanted this thread to be about football players and not about the salary cap. People make a big deal about the cap, but it never seems to be a factor in today's NFL.

What do you think about any of the college WRs I wrote about?

Here is a link about the top WRs [in their estimation] from a site most of us have visited before. Whether you agree w/their rankings or not, there is still a lot of useful information to examine.


https://walterfootball.com/draft2023WR.php

No -one is trying to hi-jack the thread. We have limited draft picks and our ability to sign top/quality free agents is directly tied to the Browns cap space ... now and in the future. Draft picks and Free Agents signings are the only way this team is going to upgrade, which is the topic of the thread.

Looking at the link you posted - not sure who Jack Duffin is or what his expertise is, but he and Steve essentially agree. Here is another of his posts, note the last bullet point.

I’m 99.99% sure #Browns QB Deshaun Watson gets restructured this offseason 💰

But what is a restructure?

- Same Money
- Same Years
- Player Paid Up Front
- Short Term Cap Benefit
[u]- Future Cap Costs Rise[/u]

The way I read Steve's post was that he was simply showing how restructuring contracts simple moves a bigger burden on the cap down the road. I think this notion that the Cap is not a factor for any team is a bit fanciful - if it wasn't a factor, every team would pay top dollar for every top player.

The salary cap is being discussed in the Browns News and Notes thread. Why do we need multiple threads on that topic other than to throw more shade at the Browns? Who the hell watches football for the salary cap. Yes, the money is a factor, but people follow football because of the players.

And you can't sign the players without the available salary cap...the connection is ridiculously obvious. You really need to start your own message board.

Edit......not worth it.

That is understandable. I brought up the draft for WRs for a reason. Hear me out for a minute. The price tag for FA WRs went through the roof last year. Hill is getting $30 million. Adams $28 million. Cupp at $26.7 million. AJ Brown @ $25 million. Metcalf got $24 million. Deebo got $23,850 million. McLauren got $22,788 million. I could go on and on.

Getting a WR or two on rookie contracts might be a wise decision.

I disagree with Jack Duffin on the JJIII June 1st cut designation. I think they keep him his final year rather than create a hole on defense for the new DC. They create cap space elsewhere.

I absolutely expect Berry to do the following in the offseason:

Restructure Watson
Restructure Garrett

In 2024 what will likely happen:

Restructure Watson
Restructure/Restructure and extend or trade Chubb. There is next to a 0% chance Berry has a RB with a $16.2M cap hit.
Restructure Ward

The salary cap will never prohibit Berry from signing a player they want to add the team.

Agreed.

Get Haslam Jalin Hyatt!

Tyler Scott and Marvin Mims are intriguing.

Thanks for those tweets.

I think we might need more FAs on the defensive side of the ball, especially if we hire Flores. Combine that w/the fact that NFL FA WRs has skyrocketed, it might make sense for the Browns to turn to the draft for WRs. We might invest multiple picks in the position. Berry has certainly continued to invest in CBs. It could be similar w/WRs in the next couple of years.

We'll have to make hay in the hundreds...

Cleveland Browns Draft Picks by Round in 2023
Round 2, Pick 43
Round 3, Pick 99
Round 4, Pick 111
Round 4, Pick 130 (from MIN)
Round 5, Pick 141 (from LAR)
Round 5, Pick 143
Round 6, Pick 189
Round 7, Pick 231

I think it is doable. We could pick one of the guys who are projected to go in Rounds 1 or 2 at 43 and another in round 4. Maybe a take a shot in the dark in round 6 or 7, much like we did w/DPJ a short time back.

I wonder what the Browns think of Woods?

First of all, the cap in itself has a huge bearing on the Browns ability to upgrade. You can try to ignore it but it's relevant and there's nothing you can say or do to change that fact. If fact, IMHO, the cap has 100% more to do with the topic "Off-season upgrades" than a post spewing hatred and what a person can and cannot post.

Another post stated: "The salary cap is being discussed in the Browns News and Notes thread. Why do we need multiple threads on that topic other than to throw more shade at the Browns? Who the hell watches football for the salary cap. Yes, the money is a factor, but people follow football because of the players."


How do the Browns get those players if they don't have the cap space?

I'll try to simplify this cap issue:

The 2023 cap should be right around 225M which is around a 14% increase in cap but could be less since the normal increase is usually around 10%.
The Browns have 27,587,123 in salary cap carryover from 2022 giving them today, $252,587,123 to spend on the roster in 2023.
Before free agency, before any trades, before the draft - the Browns currently have Total Liabilities of $261,768,607 for 2023.
Simple math would tell you that currently, the Browns are over the cap for 2023 by $9,181,484 before Berry does anything for 2023.

Now the talk of restructuring Watson again will certainly free up some much-needed cap for 2023.
If Berry goes that route again, the actual amount of freed up cap will give the Browns $24,508,516 to make some player additions through FA, trades, and the draft.
No brainer, right? Berry is a wizard, and all this cap talk is about nothing, right?

In 2024, the cap is estimated to be about 256M, another 14% increase in the cap for every team (could be less).
Before we add in the cap charges for any FA's, trades, or draft picks in either 2023 or 2024, the Browns total liabilities for currently rostered players under contract for 2024 including exercising Wills 5th year option is $294,471,171.
That means the Browns would enter next off season at a minimum of $38,471,171 over the cap which doesn't include the cap costs for players the Browns acquired from FA, trades, or the draft in 2023. They will also have a QB hitting them with a yearly cap hit of almost 67M per season by kicking the can down the road.

Cap hell is coming whether you want to believe it or not. The Browns are currently 27th in available cap for 2023 and it will only get worse from here.

That was my next question. 5 grabs on 10 targets for 45yds on the season. I expected more of a look-see, especially since we also had to make a decision on whether to extend DPJ this year. Maybe DPJ made that decision easy and Woods fell back into 'project' status.

I expect big things from DPJ this season. Strong hands, nice catch radius, fights for the ball. Seems like the kind of WR Watson would love to put at the top of his 'throw this guy open' list.

Yes, we have to keep DPJ. I have no idea about Woods. He looked the part, but like you said, he did not get many opportunities. I could be wrong, but I think using the draft to upgrade our WR room is the thing to do because the FA WR market is out of control. I'd rather spend on defensive free agents this year.

Only someone wishing to be in control of the content would try to limit the discussion to what he wants to talk about by degrading those wishing to expand the conversation. It's only obvious that salary cap implications are directly connected to the upgrades and players you can afford to sign.

j/c:

One spot that we don't talk about too much is Free Safety. If we hire Flores, we would go more w/one deep safety instead of two deep. I really don't know if JJ III is capable of being a true FS. It didn't appear that he was, but I'm not sure. If we target a true FS due to that position demanding that they cover a lot of ground, there are guys like Jordan Poyer, Jimmy Ward, and Adrian Amos available. Poyer is almost 32, Ward is 31, and Amos will be 30 at some point during the season. All three are making $9 million or more.

A guy to keep an eye on might be Chauncy Gardner-Johnson from Philly. He was traded there last year from NO. He was a slot corner for the Saints, but mostly played S this year for the Eagles. He tied for the league lead in interceptions despite missing 5 games. He returned last week and we might want to keep an eye on him during the playoffs.

I said this earlier when looking at some potential DE/Edge FAs:



Man, he looked really good today against Seattle. Strip sack and another sack. Several big plays.

Didnt Flores want to get rid of Fitzpatrick? That might show us how he views the S spot

We had Poyer and Tashaun Gipson on the Browns at the same time for a few years. Gipson looked pretty good today.

Not sure about the situation w/Fitzpatrick.

Not keeping Gipson angered me back in the day. And I think almost everyone thought Poyer sucked. The guy leaves and has been one the very best safeties in the league for a long time now. Crazy!

Yep. Poyer couldn't even crack the starting lineup here.

I agree. I thought both were sufficient for us too

Remember Linebacker DeMario Davis, or Cornerback K'Wan Williams.
Ha, the Browns ArE like the beginning of jack and the beanstalk.

Who could the Browns target in free agency to change defensive woes?


Jacob Roach
January 15, 2023 2:27 pm ET

The Cleveland Browns are currently searching for a new defensive coordinator after firing Joe Woods. But a coaching change is not all that the team needs to change to improve the defense. They struggled mightily from the defensive tackle position and likely need to overhaul that group. On top of that, the team still does not have a true deep free safety on the roster.

The team will attempt to add some long-term pieces in the draft they could look to take some major swings in free agency. There are players that the team will have a shot at that could truly help this team immediately.


A look at four defensive free agents the Browns should target this offseason.



The team absolutely needs an upgrade at the defensive tackle position if they want to have any chance to be a good unit. Sheldon Rankins hasn’t played up to the level that the Saints expected when drafting him 12th overall in 2016. Though not a superstar Rankins is a good player that can make plays in both phases of the game defensively.

At 6-foot-2 and 305 pounds Rankins isn’t the type of player that is easily moved in the run game. He anchors the middle of the line well and absorbs blocks to make sure the linebackers behind him are kept clean. Rankins would instantly be the best defensive tackle on the roster if the team signed him.


Arden Key, DE, Jacksonville Jaguars


Arden Key would be a nice addition to the defensive line playing opposite Myles Garrett. Giving Key more favorable matchups while Garrett draws double teams could lead to him putting it all together. Key has 11.5 sacks and 80 quarterback hits in the past two seasons.
Key is explosive off the line and has a great blend of speed and power pass-rushing moves. He signed a minimum salary with the Jaguars and would likely be a cost-effective upgrade for the Browns.


Jordan Poyer, S, Buffalo Bills


The Browns could pursue a reunion with safety Jordan Poyer to try and fix the back end of the secondary. The John Johnson contract has not worked out for the Browns and they could move on from him this offseason. Since leaving Cleveland and going to Buffalo, Poyer has developed into one of the best safeties in the NFL.

Poyer will command a large salary this offseason, which he deserves, and Cleveland might be willing to give it to him. But if there is a real shot at one of the league’s best at the position they should take it. Poyer is a complete player that is great at tracking the ball in coverage and is not afraid to get physical in run support.


Denzel Perryman, LB, Las Vegas Raiders


Cleveland’s inside linebackers struggled against the run game especially after Anthony Walker got injured. Denzel Perryman had an 80.5-run defense grade (PFF) this season and would be a massive upgrade over players like Jacob Phillips. Even if he is re-signed the team won’t have Sione Takitaki for most of the season and Perryman would be a good veteran presence in the locker room.

Perryman has been in the league since 2015 and could be great for helping the young defensive players on the roster. This team lacked veteran leadership last year and if Walker is re-signed and Perryman added the linebacker group would be a night and day difference from last season.


https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lis...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

Yeah, this kid seemingly has come out of nowhere. I never even heard of him until recently.

4 top-of-the-line defensive tackles to target in free agency


Cory Kinnan
January 15, 2023 5:30 pm ET
The Cleveland Browns have the worst defensive tackle room in the NFL. It was apparent during training camp, and it derailed their season as teams routinely gutted the Browns on the ground. And now as the offseason is underway in Cleveland, rookie Perrion Winfrey may be the only name to return to the room in 2023. This means they will have to spend some money in free agency to re-tool this room before the 2023 NFL Draft.

Not every signing will be a big name, but given the urgency in the defensive trenches for the Browns, defensive tackle may be a position they will splurge on. If they do, here are four names that sit at the top of the market for the Browns to highlight.



Daron Payne

Daron Payne is the white whale.

And with another Crimson Tide alum in the locker room in Cleveland already, maybe Amari Cooper can persuade Payne in the right direction. And that direction is in the Northwest direction from Washington D.C.

His production took a massive leap in 2022, racking up 11.5 sacks from his defensive tackle post, adding 18 tackles for loss and another 20 hits on opposing quarterbacks. It is anticipated that Washington utilizes their franchise tag on him, but if they let him walk expect the Browns to be top competitors for his services.


Javon Hargrave

A big reason for the defensive success of the Philadelphia Eagles can be attributed to defensive tackle Javon Hargrave. As they capture the top seed in the NFC and look to make a run at a Super Bowl, Hargrave is experiencing a massive breakout campaign of his own.

After setting a career mark with 7.5 sacks and nine tackles for loss a year ago with the Eagles, Hargrave further topped those numbers this year with 11 sacks and 10 tackles behind the line of scrimmage. Entering free agency at the age of 30, Hargrave is going to cash in again. And it might just be the Browns who get him.

Their competition, however? General manager Andrew Berry’s mentor Howie Roseman, who has proven extremely capable of manipulating the cap to keep his significant contributors.


Dre'Mont Jones

A former Ohio State Buckeye, the Browns could try to lure Dre’Mont Jones back to the state of Ohio this offseason. As the Broncos go through a weird transition where they have the guy they presume to be a franchise quarterback, but are about to hire their second head coach in as many years, they could be willing to let some valuable players walk.

A former third rounder in the 2019 NFL Draft, Jones has stacked up three consecutive and consistent seasons of at least 5.5 sacks from the interior, seven tackles for loss, 40 pressures (in the last two seasons), and 10 hits on the quarterback. Just 26 years old, Jones would give an instant boost to the defensive line in Cleveland.


Dalvin Tomlinson

While he is not as much of a pass rusher as the three who came before him on the list, he is a plug that the Browns are desperately missing. Dalvin Tomlinson provides so much relief for his linebackers in Minnesota due to his ability to consistently take on double teams along the defensive interior.

The linebackers in Cleveland are not as bad as the public perceives them to be, but they get no help from their defensive tackles to keep them clean. We truly have no idea what these linebackers would look like with a stout nose tackle like Tomlinson because they have never had one in three years under Joe Woods.


https://brownswire.usatoday.com/lis...medium=trueanthem&utm_source=twitter

It's amazing how Berry convinced himself in 2022 that
The Browns had enough firepower at WR scare defenses

Sign me up for Arden Key. I also do not think Jacksonville lets him out of town.

FLUFF

You can't OR at least shouldn't put the cart before the horse. The new DC should determine what type of players they need before we just start bringing people in.

I mean it's great to talk about who the Browns might sign. No matter who the DC is, where the weaknesses are on the defense are and have been fairly obvious. Except for maybe the people who are in charge of fixing them.

The only thing to keep in mind is that these teams will find a way to sign some of the best players that are on people's radar. What the possible list looks like today will in no way look like the list that will be available by the time the FA signing period starts.