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slick #1998727 01/08/23 08:53 PM
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It was a putrid game all around. That pretty much sums it up. The season went how I expected it to and I'm glad we can move on from it now. Expectations for next season are playoffs or bust with Stefanski now in the hot seat for a year after getting a pass this season. If the Browns aren't a playoff team next year, I will have seen enough of Stefanski and the current front office members. Enough time has been allowed to get the right players in place for the coaching staff to achieve its visions. Also, Watson better be a world beater next year. Falling back on rust as the reason for poor play (which was fair this season) is no longer an option. Fingers are crossed that this team performs from this point forward because there are no more excuses to lean on.

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slick #1998728 01/08/23 08:57 PM
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Well said


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
slick #1998736 01/08/23 09:21 PM
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Where was the qb that wasn't going to take as many sacks since he's so mobile, and where was the qb that would limit int's?

Lemmys_Wart #1998738 01/08/23 09:22 PM
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fingerscrossed smh.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Originally Posted by DaveyD
The WORST play calling by far all year. Play calling was 100% predictable in so much as I was telling my parents the plays that would be called with 75% accuracy. Stefanski keeping his starting left tackle in the final minute of a meaningless game and now a potential ACL injury.

I honestly do not know how posters like Vers can continue to pat Stefanski on the back. It really is mind bogging and comical.

Name the play calls. Let me guess......you said: "Pass." Brilliant!

Of course I was calling a pass or run. With never seeing the Browns playbook, I cannot effectively call the exact play name. If a nobody like me can effectively predict if the play is going to be a pass or a run play and on what down it's going to be, what do you think a real NFL coordinator can predict coming?

Let me guess, in your mind Stefanski wasn't outcoached in pretty much all aspects of the game. Chubb's 12 perfectly timed carries were more than enough. Chubb, once again on the sidelines in important to go situations, especially on 3rd down, were a sign of brilliance. Chubb actually getting a first down on a 3rd down he was actually in, clearly was a mistake.

This marks, I don’t know how many games, that Stefanski's play calling and lack of timely utilization of the NFLs best rusher has come into question by announcers, former NFL coaches and curre t and former NFL players. But whatever.


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archbolddawg #1998742 01/08/23 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by archbolddawg
Where was the qb that wasn't going to take as many sacks since he's so mobile, and where was the qb that would limit int's?

My guess is NOT PRESENT.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
OldColdDawg #1998746 01/08/23 09:50 PM
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Why SMH? I said it was a putrid game, the season didn't go well, and mentioned high expectations for next year that should result in job losses if those expectations aren't met. I'm willing to let the process play out through next season. So are you shaking your head just because we disagree on the timeline for coaching/front office turnover?

Lemmys_Wart #1998749 01/08/23 10:06 PM
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I'm going to do myself a favor: I have NO expectations for next year. I WILL be a Browns fan without doubt. But I have no expectations.

Lemmys_Wart #1998754 01/08/23 10:18 PM
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No LW, I was SMH in disgust that we need to keep our fingers crossed on DW getting it going here.


Your feelings and opinions do not add up to facts.
slick #1998755 01/08/23 10:20 PM
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Good point Dave .. almost every game the announcers say something like “boy, you’d think cleveland would try to get chubb some more touches here”


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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slick #1998757 01/08/23 10:22 PM
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Looking back the year. the success story or non success story of
Andrew Berry pick WR David Bell, wrapped up a rookie year.

Pro football reference David Bell, played in fifteen games.
Fifteen games?? Who knew? who really knew. 3 starts

Fifteen games, 33 targets... ...

Fifteen games, 33 targets, 24 catches on 33 targets, for the rookie year of David Bell
seven of those catches,... went for first downs, and he had one Kick return for twelve. 0 TD.

Well Khaderel Hodge could have done that. ... I thought maybe David Bell was injured most of the year,
if he played in fifteen games, 3 starts,
33 targets 24 catches seven first downs 0 TDs and a partridge in a pair tree.
Very Good first year? or ... another referendum on the offense.
Top WR pick of the Browns draft.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
THROW LONG #1998769 01/08/23 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by THROW LONG
Looking back the year. the success story or non success story of
Andrew Berry pick WR David Bell, wrapped up a rookie year.

Pro football reference David Bell, played in fifteen games.
Fifteen games?? Who knew? who really knew. 3 starts

Fifteen games, 33 targets... ...

Fifteen games, 33 targets, 24 catches on 33 targets, for the rookie year of David Bell
seven of those catches,... went for first downs, and he had one Kick return for twelve. 0 TD.

Well Khaderel Hodge could have done that. ... I thought maybe David Bell was injured most of the year,
if he played in fifteen games, 3 starts,
33 targets 24 catches seven first downs 0 TDs and a partridge in a pair tree.
Very Good first year? or ... another referendum on the offense.
Top WR pick of the Browns draft.

Bell and Schwartz probably had high Wonderlic scores. crazy


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Dawgs4Life #1998771 01/08/23 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Good point Dave .. almost every game the announcers say something like “boy, you’d think cleveland would try to get chubb some more touches here”


It's maddening. Everyone see and hears it. Hell, look no further than all the "RUN CHUBB" shirts out there. It's naddening. The offense should run through Chubb. He is that elite of a player. Watson comes in and Stefanski gets all pass happy to the point where it is a subject by most talking heads every game. It's alomst like a ego thing with Stefanski. This is nothing new though. I was a big fan of his when he first came here then took us to the playoffs. He has regressed tremendously in my eyes.

Stefanski needs to give up the play calling tonight but you know he won't.


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slick #1998772 01/08/23 11:57 PM
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The steelers are a classless [censored] organization. They did a sack celebration where they simulated cpr.


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slick #1998774 01/09/23 12:18 AM
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I recall the all hype David Bell got when Berry drafted him
He really showed very little this year.
Averaged less than 10 yards a catch
Zero TDs. The Browns need to start drafting WRs that
Are end zone threats
DPJ Bell Schwartz
4 TDs between them.
That's sad

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Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
I recall the all hype David Bell got when Berry drafted him
He really showed very little this year.
Averaged less than 10 yards a catch
Zero TDs. The Browns need to start drafting WRs that
Are end zone threats
DPJ Bell Schwartz
4 TDs between them.
That's sad
Originally Posted by Iluvmyxstripper
I recall the all hype David Bell got when Berry drafted him
He really showed very little this year.
Averaged less than 10 yards a catch
Zero TDs. The Browns need to start drafting WRs that
Are end zone threats
DPJ Bell Schwartz
4 TDs between them.
That's sad

I also remember people thinking it was a good pick


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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slick #1998790 01/09/23 06:09 AM
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In terms of David Bell .. you alluded to it, but he doesn’t show anything athletically that makes him special. No size, no speed, no quickness, etc.

I watched other rookie WRs who came on strong and showed some nice ability. Bell was as bland as it gets.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
Dawgs4Life #1998793 01/09/23 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
In terms of David Bell .. you alluded to it, but he doesn’t show anything athletically that makes him special. No size, no speed, no quickness, etc.

I watched other rookie WRs who came on strong and showed some nice ability. Bell was as bland as it gets.
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
In terms of David Bell .. you alluded to it, but he doesn’t show anything athletically that makes him special. No size, no speed, no quickness, etc.

I watched other rookie WRs who came on strong and showed some nice ability. Bell was as bland as it gets.

The only thing he brings is he is a reliable receiver. He just doesn't get open enough to have the ball thrown his way. I blame Berry for that.

Bell was drafted after we had Watson. Berry should have known we were going to need to retool the O for Watson. We need quick twitch receivers who can turn on a dime as Watson turns on a dime to escape a pass rush. The receivers have to be able to break route and get over to a position where Watson can find them and get them the ball.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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Dawgs4Life #1998794 01/09/23 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
In terms of David Bell .. you alluded to it, but he doesn’t show anything athletically that makes him special. No size, no speed, no quickness, etc.

I watched other rookie WRs who came on strong and showed some nice ability. Bell was as bland as it gets.

So a rookie who joined our team and showed no improvement at all.
How much is that on him, how much of that is on the coaching staff?


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Jester #1998801 01/09/23 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jester
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
In terms of David Bell .. you alluded to it, but he doesn’t show anything athletically that makes him special. No size, no speed, no quickness, etc.

I watched other rookie WRs who came on strong and showed some nice ability. Bell was as bland as it gets.

So a rookie who joined our team and showed no improvement at all.
How much is that on him, how much of that is on the coaching staff?

Probably mostly on the player.

I don't think development of players is the right word in the NFL. Maybe refinement is the word. If you have to develop a player, then you drafted the wrong player. Unlike the other sports that have developmental coaches in lower levels, you don't have that in the NFL. Baseball doesn't put a developmental pitcher on the bump. They put him in the minors to work out the kinks.

If you can't come in and pretty much play in the NFL, you are done.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

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slick #1998805 01/09/23 08:34 AM
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I guess my argument is he has very little physical tools to work with … hes really unremarkable besides the fact that he’s got above average hands. I didnt see much ability to separate, make people miss, high point a ball, etc.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
DaveyD #1998819 01/09/23 09:30 AM
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Look, you started it by attaching the words "mind boggling" and "comical" to my name.

Predicting a pass or a run means nothing. Tell us the play. Was it a trap? A counter? Inside or outside zone? Base/man blocking? What was the route tree? 3 step drop? 5? 7? Boot? Play action? You are not smarter than our coaching staff. Stop pretending.

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j/c:

At this point, I would have hoped to see more out of Watson. I get the offensive line issues/injuries but he's still holding the ball too long and doesn't seem anywhere close to being comfortable in this offense.

We'll see.


Tackles are tackles.
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Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:

At this point, I would have hoped to see more out of Watson. I get the offensive line issues/injuries but he's still holding the ball too long and doesn't seem anywhere close to being comfortable in this offense.

We'll see.
This would be my comment as well. He seems to really hold the ball long and seems a step slow in his decision making, whether it’s trouble reading the defense or just rusty I don’t know.

He definitely had some nice moments, but not near what we need him to be


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Originally Posted by Versatile Dog
Look, you started it by attaching the words "mind boggling" and "comical" to my name.

Predicting a pass or a run means nothing. Tell us the play. Was it a trap? A counter? Inside or outside zone? Base/man blocking? What was the route tree? 3 step drop? 5? 7? Boot? Play action? You are not smarter than our coaching staff. Stop pretending.
No one here claimed to be smarter than the coaching staff. Criticism where criticism is due doesn't make any poster smaemrter than our coaching staff and doesn't suggest the poster believes they could do a better job.

If you don't believe that predicting if a play is a run or pass with high accuracy helps the defense regardless of the exaxt type of play call and direction, maybe your not as football smart as you believe? Or maybe your rush to defend all things Stefanski has you posting BS


The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Ballpeen #1998860 01/09/23 10:54 AM
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That might be true of a 1st round draft pick, but not a 3rd+ rounder.
Teams need to be able to find a diamond in the rough and polish that player up


People who lack accountability think everything is an attack
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Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:

At this point, I would have hoped to see more out of Watson. I get the offensive line issues/injuries but he's still holding the ball too long and doesn't seem anywhere close to being comfortable in this offense.

We'll see.
This would be my comment as well. He seems to really hold the ball long and seems a step slow in his decision making, whether it’s trouble reading the defense or just rusty I don’t know.

He definitely had some nice moments, but not near what we need him to be

From the usual TV angle, it appears that he absolutely holds the ball too long. What we don't see is the routes being run and the running of the routes. Cooper and Njoku are oftentimes open when the ball is thrown to them...the other guys? Not so much.

The OL was giving up pressure and we don't have ball-catchers who get open with regularity - outside Cooper or Njpku.

Watch a Bengals game...rarely is there anyone near the targeted receiver...pitch and catch with room for YAC...it's maddening that we never have those plays.

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Originally Posted by EveDawg
The steelers are a classless [censored] organization. They did a sack celebration where they simulated cpr.

Agreed. It was beyond classless. And I am not surprised that they did it.


How does a league celebrating its 100th season only recognize the 53 most recent championships?

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mgh888 #1998866 01/09/23 11:02 AM
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Was on my phone. Wanted to correct the typos before grammar police intervene.

Smarter. Exact. You're.


The more things change the more they stay the same.
WSU Willie #1998874 01/09/23 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by WSU Willie
From the usual TV angle, it appears that he absolutely holds the ball too long. What we don't see is the routes being run and the running of the routes. Cooper and Njoku are oftentimes open when the ball is thrown to them...the other guys? Not so much.

The OL was giving up pressure and we don't have ball-catchers who get open with regularity - outside Cooper or Njoku.

Watch a Bengals game...rarely is there anyone near the targeted receiver...pitch and catch with room for YAC...it's maddening that we never have those plays.

Just to make a comment about one specific play where Watson threw into what the announcers called triple coverage that resulted in one of the interceptions ... I'd need to re-watch the play to be 100% certain, but watching live it appeared to me that there were 3 Browns WR all within 12-15 ft of each other, meaning there were at least 3 defensive backs/players in the area and maybe 1 safety at the back making 4? To me that's questionable play design - the WR weren't at 3 different levels trying to find the soft spot in a zone, if anything two of them seemed to be converging. If there's a link to the play I'd watch it again to see if what I thought I saw live was what actually happened.

Last edited by mgh888; 01/09/23 11:08 AM.

The more things change the more they stay the same.
mgh888 #1998891 01/09/23 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mgh888
Was on my phone. Wanted to correct the typos before grammar police intervene.

Smarter. Exact. You're.

Yoda??


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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WSU Willie #1998894 01/09/23 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by WSU Willie
Originally Posted by Dawgs4Life
Originally Posted by MemphisBrownie
j/c:

At this point, I would have hoped to see more out of Watson. I get the offensive line issues/injuries but he's still holding the ball too long and doesn't seem anywhere close to being comfortable in this offense.

We'll see.
This would be my comment as well. He seems to really hold the ball long and seems a step slow in his decision making, whether it’s trouble reading the defense or just rusty I don’t know.

He definitely had some nice moments, but not near what we need him to be

From the usual TV angle, it appears that he absolutely holds the ball too long. What we don't see is the routes being run and the running of the routes. Cooper and Njoku are oftentimes open when the ball is thrown to them...the other guys? Not so much.

The OL was giving up pressure and we don't have ball-catchers who get open with regularity - outside Cooper or Njpku.

Watch a Bengals game...rarely is there anyone near the targeted receiver...pitch and catch with room for YAC...it's maddening that we never have those plays.

I'll jump on, because I agree with everyone here.

I'll add that the "holding the ball too long" is a blessing and a curse. Even when scrambling; he keeps his head on a swivel and often finds the open man. I'll say it for the fiftieth time -- Pig Pen made a career and an artform out of that -- it just takes time for everyone to know their role.

Mostly anecdotal: Early on, I was worried about all the ensuing holding calls (we led the league in holding this year, btw). I checked his career in Houston, they were near the bottom of the league every year. Puzzling. Maybe the idea is... DO NOT HOLD, after three seconds, Deshaun can take care of himself.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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The Steelers played with pride and heart and to make sure Tomlin didn't have a losing season. The Browns had their U Hauls lined up and ready to go. The Pittsburgh Steelers are WINNERS. The Cleveland Browns are LOSERS - and will continue to be LOSERS under the direction of Jimmy Haslam. It's that simple.


The Browns finally have a leader in the building. It won't be long before Jim Schwartz is in charge. Thankfully.
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j/c

I think the post I'm about to make would probably fit better in the other thread I just don't think it would be well received there.....

This game was not something I can blame on either side of the ball. From the standpoint of the defense some may be able to claim that the two int's were partially responsible for the loss and while there may be some truth to that, the Steelers have been putrid at best on the O side of the ball and that's putting it mildly. They are ranked 26th in scoring in the NFL. 28 points is the most points that the Steelers O has scored since Nov. 20th. In their last two games they have scored 13 and 16 points respectively. Pickett, passed for completion rate of 44.8% yesterday. There is no excuse for giving up 28 points to the Steelers.

After last weeks second half performance by watson, what Browns fans saw yesterday is not what they should have expected to see. There had been a gradual progression but yesterday we certainly saw a step back. It's great to have such a high completion percentage but when 2 of the 10 passes you missed were int's. that certainly makes the completion percentage less impressive. Addressing the 2 int's... One was either an obvious bad read or an overthrow. There were 2 WR's underneath that were pretty much open and then the one who the ball seemed to be his intended target. I would like to believe he simply overthrew the ball rather than to think he threw directly into triple coverage. The other int. he simply locked his eyes on the intended target and made it easy to read where the ball was going to be delivered. As such the defender jumped the route for an easy int. Neither of those were something one would expect to see form an accomplished QB. His persistent tendency to hold and pat the ball isn't a positive either.

I won't get into the fact that while the Browns averaged a full two yards more per carry on rushing downs that the Steelers actually rushed the ball 15 more times than the Browns. I think those numbers alone speak for themselves.

At this point in time I think people who are being realistic would have to ask themselves how much longer will the process of "watson getting back to normal" take? How many more games? Don't fool yourselves into believing that practice simulates game speed. Hopefully it won't take many more games for watson to get back to his old self. These are things we are all seeing. These are the realities of where we are now.

Everyone can blame everything from the coaching, to the players to the FO. And some may even blame a combination of all those things. I tend to dismiss blaming the players overall more than the others. We've seen where the defense has played lights out. It's hard for me to fathom that some weeks they know how to play football and some weeks they forget how. We've also seen the O being productive both with Brissett at QB when we had a top 10 O in production, to the one game with watson last week. So I'm not buying what some people are trying to sell that the players on the roster know how to play the game at a high level sometimes then forget how to play at a high level other times. There are causes that may get that perception to manifest itself but I won't get into that either.

Hopefully next season brings a brighter future. Because at some point fans have to start asking themselves when enough is enough?


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
2 members like this: mgh888, WSU Willie
slick #1998974 01/09/23 02:54 PM
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Legend
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Legend
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Posts: 70,571
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Tough to argue that Beast


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
PitDAWG #1999015 01/09/23 04:42 PM
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Dawg Talker
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B
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Ah yes the QB.
His pay is equivalent to the GNP of a Latin American country,but his output is equal to that of a small Appalachian county.
Doesnot bode well for the future.


Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
slick #1999048 01/09/23 06:24 PM
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1st String
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1st String
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Fire: Berry, De Podesta, Stefanski, & Wood. And bite the bullet until we are able to participate in the draft again. We have crap draft picks until 2025. I’m so tired of this team owned and ran by imbeciles.


Never have hope. You won’t be disappointed.
Dean #1999065 01/09/23 07:24 PM
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Legend
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Quit until we can win back the draft? Bold strategy, Dean.


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
1 member likes this: MemphisBrownie
FATE #1999959 01/14/23 05:32 PM
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Legend
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T
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It's not @uiting just to fire everyone, they'd bring in another at each position.
almost liked the post.
Any post that begins with
Fire; Berry, Depodesta, ...
is difficult not to hit the like button on.

I mean, if you love the Browns you want them to fix or see the problems.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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