DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Teaching Critical Race Theory’s taken seriously in Missouri.

Yeah we put them in the middle of a desert that nobody wanted where potable water needs to be toted in by truck. Yep it’s their own fault. And then when oil and other natural resources were found on the lands that the government gave them, the mineral rights where given to big corps, who continue to pollute their sacred lands and burial grounds. You need some real history lessons son. This isn’t a Game of Thrones. it’s the USA! And Peen needs to realize this is an ongoing lesson in civics and civic duties.

No, that does not clear things up. That only ads to the confusion. Are you and other people in this discussion part of a group of people that slaughtered Native Americans? I doubt that.
If you want to complain about the American educations system and its accuracy with respect to history, then the least you could do is be accurate in your own statement statement regarding the historic events that you use as an example. Understanding what group is referred to by "we" is pretty important if we are going to have a discussion about accuracy.
So who exactly is "we"?

I made it obvious as to what it was referring to. If that isn't good enough for you, that's a you problem. I'm not playing a game of semantics with you.

The truth is being taught.

I'd also venture to say more of the truth is being taught, but I do admit I haven't asked to audit any local HS history class. Pit brough up the trail of tears. That was taught to me in HS and the teacher didn't try to hide the fact we removed the Cherokee, a civilized tribe, and marched them out to Oklahoma. A journey where many thousands died along the trail. This was back in the 60's. Here in town there are dozens of educational plaques and points of interest since the trail went right through this area. One of the main roads is named Cherokee Blvd. It was at the main encampment the Cherokee were gathered to beginning the march west. Surely you didn't just learn about the trail of tears, various massacres or the Dred Scott case, the Scottsboro Boys, or the Tuskegee Airmen just a few months ago. I'll admit not a lot of black history was taught. I do know that has changed. Black history month has gone a long way in helping to make that change.

I do think some of the problem is up north, the people were largely insulated from AA people and the last of the eastern Native residents. Here in the south, that wasn't the case so the history is much more to the forefront.

Yeah, the problem was in the north. All of those abolitionists and soldiers who fought and died to free the slaves. The place they fled to and told about what they experienced by being slaves. Where the underground railroad took them to freedom. North. I mean if you want to talk about history.

And I’d venture to say in the south they don’t teach as much about civil rights and slavery as in the north considering southern states like Texas didn’t even tell their slaves they where free until a couple years after the civil war was over.

You mean Texas isn't in the north?

Always fighting the war between the states.

I was thinking the more recent past.

JMHO, as a real teacher of history in 9th grade- I'll truthfully state- most kids could care less. History books cover the basics, yet they miss many details which could easily change how almost any event is looked at....ALL books are biased, just like human beings.

Couple real world examples- my sister, college grad in late seventies knew NOTHING about WW2- my dad was a WW2 vet- reason, they never got to WW2 in HS. Another example- Vietnam war, I'm a vet of that "war". Gulf of Tonkin resolution written about- but none of its background normally- CIA/South Vietnamese raid into NViet several days prior, how Navy screwed up the reporting of NV torpedo boat attacks, AND lastly, American politicians knew about conflicting reports BUT wanted a bigger war to support the domino theory. Lies and/or omissions been around forever.

Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How- answer those questions about EVERYTHING and then make your judgements- few do. Peace.

It's not a game of semantics. You made a claim about history, accusing a group of people of some atrocities, but was unclear about who those group of people were.
I think we all know who you referring to by "we" and I believe that the reason you are unwilling to be more specific is because there are groups that exist today that you wish to somehow be seen as a "we" that is responsible for those atrocities but are incapable of making any connection between those group and the actual atrocity. It is such a fragile claim, that it cannot even stand under the very simple question of "what is meant by we?"

This relates to the topic, because this is the problem that we have with how some people want to teach American history. I don't care if you call it CRT or something else. We should not be telling kids that they are divided into some predetermined tribe and that they are somehow victims or oppressors based on some very loose affiliation that their present day assigned tribe has to some past historic event.

There is a big difference between saying "we took over this nation by slaughtering and committing genocide against over 200 Native American tribes using some crazy, concocted reasoning known at the time as manifest destiny." and "many early european settlers took over this nation by slaughtering and committing genocide against over 200 Native American tribes using some crazy, concocted reasoning known at the time as manifest destiny."
One is teaching history, one is the effect of programming.

I try to stay non-partisan, but I have young children in school, and this type of brainwashing is something that I do not like and as a political issue it is a loser for the Democrats unless they think it is a good idea to create a one-way voting block out of parents. My kids take precedents over every other political consideration in my life. I am not okay with anyone to implant the idea in my children that they are victims or oppressors by birth. It does not even resemble the truth.

Most of us don't even have a loose ancestral connection to the colonies. The vast majority of immigration into the US happened well after colonial times, with an enormous surge happening right around the time of the civil war. In fact, something most people don't know is that 50% of the union army in the civil war was immigrants and first generation Americans. My earliest American ancestors that I know of came over in that time and lost brothers in the Civil War. Later ancestors fought in both world wars and the Korean war, again losing brothers and receiving purple hearts in the service of freedom for others. Later on my deceased, war-hero grandfather supported equal rights for African Americans as an early Teamster. So I don't like it when people try to convince my children that they are part of some "we" that committed atrocities such as genocide or slavery. They don't even have an ancestral connection to those things or countries that participated in those things. If people want create victim and oppressor groups and pigeonhole people into them, then I would suggest a third group: "heroes", because that is where my children would belong based on their ancestral ties.

Factual statements are not programming. That's exactly what happened. Teaching how we got to where we are now and the steps that happened along the way do not divide people into tribes. It teaches how we became divided into tribes as we are now. That's the only way to move forward and heal the divide. Refusing to do that only keeps people confused as to why we are where we are now and why the division exists. That solves nothing as we can see.

How many of those slaves are here today?

About as many holocaust victims that are here today. And they were given an entire Nation in the Middle East.

That's where it started. From there it went to Jim Crow laws which prevented many blacks from voting in the south, red lining and an assortment of issues that helped perpetuate inequality. To teach history you start at the beginning and work your way forward from there. The history of slavery is the beginning of the story. The story isn't, "Then slavery was over and they lived happily ever after!"

God gave them that nation. He just used the USA and Great Britain to do it. Isaiah prophesied Israel coming back in a day in Isaiah 66 well around 3,000 years before it happened. So did Ezekiel in Ezekiel 36 and 37 when the land in Isreal started to heal and God brought the dry bones with no hope back to the land, he promised them.

Yeah like when Obama became president, suddenly racism disappeared.

If you believe in that sort of thing fine. If you don’t “Rot in hell! We’re taking your land” It’s what indigenous people around the world have had to deal with Christian Nationalism for century’s. Nothing new here.

Did you help slaughter Native Americans? If you did not, then it is not a factual statement.
You are so programmed that I am guessing that you never even thought for a second about the use of the pronoun "we" when you wrote that. You should seriously scrutinize how you would have chosen that pronoun if not through repeated exposure to other people expressing the same belief.

God anointed that Obama become president. Twice.

Symantecs. “We” have seen the enemy.

So you are saying that's not what happened. That they ruled this nation and our forefathers didn't take it from them? That they didn't commit genocide against them? That they didn't put their children into christian schools and try to wipe out their culture, traditions and language? What we get are the fruits and benefits of what was done to them.


Like I said, you are basing all of your posts on semantics to avoid the actual topic. It shows who is really the one programmed here.

See, it isn't about teaching. It's about all the other twisted politics you espouse. Quit kidding yourself...and as long as you and others keep ripping things apart, there will be no healing.

Quit kidding yourself. You and other don't want healing. With that, I am out.

Oh, it is "they" now. I see. What happened to "we"?

Or is we just the pronoun "we" use when talking to school children so that we can subtly message to them that they are born into guilt?
Just semantics I guess

And "our forefathers" did not take it from them. Maybe your forefathers, not mine.

We’re doomed.

Historical facts aren't political. You simply portray them that way because you would like to keep them in the shadows. Now go on and tell me how you support keeping the generals of the army who fought to continue slavery in public squares throughout the south.

Semantics are your only friend.

The distinction between we and they is not semantic.

Your arguments are fragile. You can't even describe what you meant when you said "we took over this nation by slaughtering and committing genocide against over 200 Native American tribes". Can't even describe who actually constitutes "we".

Imagine if I see my wife tonight and I say "we kissed today". and she says "hold on a sec, I didn't kiss you today, so who the hell is "we"?"
Do you think it is going to fly if I tell her not to bother me with semantics?

So what do you mean by "we"? what group are you a part of that slaughtered Native Americans?
Maybe you are just scared to answer the question forthrightly and honestly.

Our entire society is built on the ground that was stolen from them. Everyone of European descent living in The United States today reaps the rewards and benefits of the atrocities their forefathers brought upon Native Americans. And so does the rest of the country.

Now, with all of that being said, the only thing in any of that which seems important to you is the difference between the word "we" and "they". And that's just sad. Semantics is more important than genocide? I guess to you maybe.

Let me show you what making it political looks like.....

Trump calls for certifying 'patriotic' teachers, cutting funds to schools teaching CRT

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pr...TslCZs1AARPejKnd8YnFQxdayAA8ZiCNldml7LNQ

Just because we benefit from past events does not mean we are participants in those events. I enjoy the modern convenience of motor vehicles, that does not mean I helped invent the internal combustion engine.
And it is not like the benefits that we realize today from those events are limited to people of European descent. There are people in China today that are benefiting in some way from the changes that happened in North America. That does not mean that they killed Native Americans.
I am of European descent, but have no forefathers that participated in these events and have no greater connection to them than a first generation Asian-American. Not that I believe that a child today is somehow guilty for something that happened 200 years ago because 1/64th of their bloodline can be traced back to early colonizers. That is an appalling idea to push onto children.

Like everyone else said before, we all learned about many of these historic events in school, but this new obsession with dividing children into your groups that are based on nothing but bad anthropological science, and then to try to convince children that they are somehow victims or oppressors based on this, is something that I won't go along with as a parent. It is morally wrong and just another political game that is trying to divide people and make us hate each other.

Using teaching accurate history as divisive is simply an excuse not to the it because you feel the truth is better hidden. Only when you're taught the truth can you learn from it to help insure it isn't repeated.

"Those who don not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

You do realize that people have figured out that the real goal here is to hide the truth from our nations children, right?

Critical race theory is not teaching it is indoctrination.

And that's a typical response from those that object to the truth being taught. Yet Christians put their children in Sunday Schools in church from the time they can walk and are outraged when someone tells them that is indoctrination.

It is no less indoctrination than telling first graders the George Washington chop down the cherry tree story. If there is one difference, it is that you swallowed your indoctrination hook, line, and sinker. Trust me, I got the same indoctrination. It did not work as effectively on me, because the
Black American oral tradition was alive and well in my family, in my church, and my community.

Not only did I receive the same education as you, I also learned the things public education did not teach you. Some of the very things that are now being exposed.

None of these revelations are new to me. And it is no surprise that this information is being mischaracterized as 'indoctrination.' it's a semi-effective way of trying to maintain control of the narrative. No worries though - the truth always has a way of getting out. Even when that truth is uncomfortable for some.

My elementary school teachers quite literally taught us that this story was a myth. I guess some teachers just get things wrong.
So, I am not saying there was never inaccurate information taught in history classes, but I am confident that any errors at the time that I went to school were not purposefully intended to manipulate us. It's unfortunate that others didn't have the same experience with their teachers that I did.
That said, there were a lot of pieces of history that probably should have been made a higher priority in terms of making the curriculum. With that I agree and am open to finding those important historical events and exploring their inclusion in K-12 curriculum.

I am genuinely interested and want to see your point of view. Can you give us a brief example of what you learned through family, church, or community that you thought should have been part of a K-12 curriculum?

Show me a public school teaching CRT? Because I can name a lot of churches into indoctrination.

Did your elementary teachers teach you that In 1779, General George Washington dispatched an expedition under General John Sullivan into Iroquois country to destroy Native villages and crops? The expedition was one of the largest and most meticulously planned operations that the Continental Army undertook during the revolutionary war.

Washington’s decisions set precedents that are still with us.

I see you fail to mention there is a world of difference between people teaching their own children something, especially their own belief system and other people teaching those children a counter belief system.

Did you teach your kids how to use a fork? Was that indoctrination?

j/c

I'd suggest that most people writing on this thread don't have a clue what CRT actually is or does or teaches. But then that never stopped anyone having an opinion on something and shouting others down.

True. And the fact that CRT is just a theory and not a teaching point in public schools today, doesn’t stop people for creating policies to try and stop it, while creating new curriculum in religion and patriotism that fits their own political views.