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I woke up during one of my ECTs. That was a bit scary.

Yeah. No. I wake up during lithotripsy, someone's getting punched in the face.

Yes, anesthesia is a very exact science. Have a couple anesthesiologists in the family.

Thinking it would be better to cut a patient's dose, rather than figure out a more efficient means of administering, is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard... and these people are serious.

And thinking this would even move the needle in respect to global warming is like thinking you could treat an amputation with a box of band-aids.

Chevy Volt batteries can run you close to 30,000 bucks.

Autoblog
To tap U.S. government billions, Tesla must unlock EV chargers
171
Reuters
Fri, February 10, 2023 at 4:00 PM EST·4 min read




Tesla CEO Elon Musk has often talked about opening his Supercharging network to competitors, but has never actually done so in the United States, where the company dominates the electric vehicle market.

Now, the brash CEO may have 7.5 billion reasons to accelerate those plans.

The Department of Transportation next week is expected to finalize a requirement that will pressure Tesla to expand beyond its proprietary charging equipment in the U.S. and add the charger used by its competitors, administration officials tell Reuters.


Otherwise, the carmaker will be left out of the $7.5 billion in subsidies flowing out of Washington, part of President Joe Biden’s plan to blanket the nation with 500,000 EV chargers in the coming years, up from 100,000 in 2021.

The network is a central part of Biden's plan to tackle climate change by converting 50% of all new U.S. vehicle sales to electric by 2030. A dearth of chargers on U.S. roads has slowed the growth of EV sales and the positive environmental impact, advocates say.

As the U.S. pressure builds, there are plenty of signs that Tesla is on the brink of democratizing its network, even though Musk has denounced the federal government's involvement before.

In January of last year, Tesla wrote the Federal Highway Administration, offering the Biden administration suggestions on how to shape the charging program. In Ohio, the company responded to a recent request that companies submit charging proposals, state officials told Reuters. In Arizona, the company told the state it was open to upgrading its chargers or building new ones to meet the federal requirements, although a final decision was not made.

Musk met with White House officials last month in Washington D.C. Among the items discussed was EV charging program, White House infrastructure czar Mitch Landrieu told reporters.

Musk, for his part, said in a July 2021 earnings call that the point of Tesla's charging network was "not to create a walled garden and use that to bludgeon our competitors," but has not publicly discussed plans for U.S. market changes. The company has opened up some Superchargers in Europe and Australia.

An email to Tesla and Musk was not returned.

State officials are optimistic.

"We do understand that Tesla is looking to tweak their system to be more open access. So, if they do reach that point and meet those eligibility requirements, they certainly will be eligible for funding," said Stuart Anderson, the state of Iowa's Transportation Development Division Director.

SUPERCHARGER DOMINANCE

Tesla’s U.S. Supercharger network is often held up as the gold standard: fast, reliable, and plentiful, with about 40,000 chargers worldwide.

But for years, the network has been exclusive to Tesla owners, thanks to a plug that connects only to Tesla cars, meaning someone driving a Volkswagen, Ford, or Chevy vehicle wouldn’t be able to use it.

Tesla drivers can purchase an adapter to connect with the U.S. standard "Combined Charging System" or CCS chargers but people who don't own a Tesla can't do the same with Superchargers.

Opening up its networks could grow a funding and revenue stream for Tesla, but could erode the brand's exclusivity and make it challenging for the automaker to manage the network, analysts say.

"It's definitely a balance for them: how much potential federal subsidies for expanding their network versus maintaining that competitive advantage on charging," Chris Harto, a Senior Policy Analyst at Consumer Reports said.

The Department of Transportation next week will detail final requirements that all electric vehicle chargers must meet to be eligible for funding under the $7.5 billion effort to electrify highways and interstates across the nation. Those requirements will also touch on cybersecurity and how much and what parts of the charger must be made in America.

Chargers seeking to become part of the National Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program must utilize a combined charging system, or CCS, the standard in the U.S. on nearly all charging stations except Tesla’s popular Superchargers.

The move to finalize so-called 'minimum standards' by the administration is expected to unlock the first wave of funding and set off fierce competition among companies like ChargePoint Holdings and (CHPT.N) and EVgo Inc (EVGO.O). For these small companies, it represents a generational opportunity.

Any charger that wants to be eligible for federal dollars will have to meet the CCS standard once the rules are finalized next week, administration officials told Reuters.

Last year, Tesla offered up another idea. In its letter to the FHA, the company proposed that its Superchargers should qualify for rebates if they are co-located with CCS chargers that work with competitors.

An administration official told Reuters that request was not seriously considered.



https://autos.yahoo.com/tap-u-government-billions-tesla-210000073.html

On December 30th of last year, I had a stint put in my heart (80% blockage of the Widow Maker) ... I was awake but really groggy the whole time. I guess it's because during the procedure, they need the patient to breathe in and out a few times. They talk to you while your under... Honestly, that was kinda fun. They cracked me up with their banter.

Exactly. Hospitals using vacuums to carry the anesthetic gases out into the air is not something most of us even think about. Perhaps there are already ways to safely capture the gasses but they are far too expensive? What I do know is that it's crazy to think they can just lower the amount of anesthesia they give to their patients.

The quality of the battery makes how long the range on a single charge will take you even in the cold. And you wonder why I feel the need to dumb things down.

The chemistry in the battery has a lot to do with how it works, since batteries use those chemical reactions to produce electricity. This is simple science (like actual science not political science). Since there are like maybe a couple of places these are made they are all really close in quality. I will agree there are things in a Tesla that make it nicer than a Volt, and some of the technology allows more effiecent usage of the batteries, but they chemistry is what the chemistry is.

We're talking about battery range and how higher quality batteries deliver a much longer range in mileage per charge.

I'll give you an example. The Nissan Leaf is rated at 150 miles on a full charge. A GMC Hummer EV1 is rated at 329 miles on a charge. And the Tesla Model S is rated at 405 miles on a full charge. You do understand that manufactures often build everything from cars to appliances with a wide range of quality and the price often reflects the quality built into each individual product the manufacturer produces, right?

Just like not all combustion engines are equal , neither are EV batteries.

Batteries really boil down to amount of chemical reaction available. More battery more range. Simple enough?

The chemistry is stil laffected by temperature. Colder is worse. As it gets colder the output of the chemical reaction goes down. That's what science looks like.

So.... longer range more battery. But you can't break the laws of physics (chemistry really is just physics anyway).

Do we get the idea now or do I need to say it a 15th different way for you to ignore?

How long do they generally last?

Most of the ones we sold only lasted 75 to 100 K miles. We had a guy buy one drive it 3 years and put 80 K miles on it. He wanted to trade it in because he said the charge wasn't lasting as long. He paid over 40 grand new, and three years later we didn't even want it back on trade and offered him 10 bucks for it.

So the quality of the batteries makes a difference in how many miles one will get per charge in all types of weather. Thanks.

And the quality of battery doesn't make a difference in whether they are affected by weather or not.

The difference in quality in batteries is usually more about sturdiness,the packaging being able to withstand physical abuse such as vibration. The overall rated capacity for a chemistry and size doesn't really change all that much.

Thanks. You continue to try move goal posts.

When a part cost more or close to the initial price of the car, I have to believe there is a case to be made against the maker. Most new Tech costs more initially.. Then it gets real.

But, the one for three years, that's 36 months, are batteries excluded from warranties?

Like most new tech, they will improve over time which is why most makers aren't switching to all EV for at least another 10 years. In that time I expect to see big advances in battery technology., I also expect an every expanding base of charging stations and quicker charging times. I also expect fast mobile chargers. Today, if we run out of gas, we call AAA and they come with a can of gas. I can see in the future a quick charger on a truck that comes to your rescue.,

How many of you have driven an EV? I have now driven a Tesla model S... DAMN is that thing fast. Handled like a dream, cornered like it was on rails. I'm not sure of the sticker price.. it was a friends car and I didn't want to be rude and ask...But I expect it was pretty high. maybe $70 to 90K.. I'm not ready to spend that on a car yet. They gotta come down.

I've not driven one but I wouldn't mind. Charging at home is near impossible for me and they don't have charging at work for us either.

You might be a little low on cost, especially if you got to drive the Plaid. I expect them to come down slowly, but until I can solve the charging issues here we won't get one.

Don't worry, there will be hook-ups on the side of your newly-mandated electric stove. Just run an extension cord to the garage.

We are in a city with on street parking. If I run a cord I will have to baby sit it, though I suspect most politicians don't care how my time is wasted.

With Elon suddenly showing his GOPEr stripes after years of thinking he was uber progressive... I hope his entire fleet of vehicles, including spaceships, gets parked in his ass when he goes broke. I admired him as a brilliant mind early on, and often over the years. But I could care less about the whole damn industry while the fascists are still in government because any positive action on this front will be bastardized by MAGAts.

I agree on Elon. Appreciate his out of the box thinking, ingenuity and drive to make it happen. But at this point, I just wish he would shut up and go back to just innovating, and stay out of the spotlight.

No, it's you who is moving the goal post as per usual. All you have to do is look at what these responses were predicated on. A poster said he knew someone who couldn't make a short trip in cold weather with a Chevy Volt. Afterwords the point was made that they have a very low mileage rating per charge to begin with. Thus cold weather would make them have a VERY short mileage per charge in such conditions. That EV's with batteries rated for many more miles per charge would get you more miles per charge than what that Volt would even in cold weather.

At first you tried to fight about how none of those batteries were of any higher quality than any others. Now you've abandoned that approach and switched over to how cold weather effects all EV batteries. You're now trying to argue a point nobody tried to make in the first place.

Like your yellow brand- we all need to use it- Electric cars- lots of folks on that bandwagon, reality sure points to a mix- gas ain't going away anytime soon, electric is being pushed. I like clean hydrogen- it seems doable without huge changes to engines- some cities using on busses today- I'd use a couple billion of taxpayer money on it rather than feeding Ukraine our tax dollars.

Oh Geez, the plaid is about 140K or thereabouts.

No, this was what I think is the base Model S.. Like I said, that thing was fast and fun to drive.

You said it was all battery quality. It is not. Battery capacity is about chemistry, type and size. Quality doesn't really play into any of that, at least not in any meaningful way. You will see longevity increase with a better quality battery. (Defining longevity as overall usable life. I mention that so you won't say I said something I didn't as you are want to do).

I have said several times that battery chemistry is temperature dependant. Some chemistries are more resilient than others, but they all suffer when you get cold. Type of battery can affect this as well, but to a far less degree for low temperature. For instance gel batteries perform in cold weather about like AGM but they do not like heat.

I don't know what the quantity of battery Volts vs Teslas have, but I would expect anything that has vastly superior capacity to have a vastly larger quantity of battery. That does not change it's ability to withstand cold, especially extreme cold.

.

Refer back to the difference in how Tesla batteries are made. So some batteries have better cold weather performance than others but it has nothing to do with the quality of the product. Got it.

I just want to clarify that I was talking about a Chevy Bolt, not a Volt. Two different cars and two different generations.

Production EVs with lead-acid batteries are capable of up to 130 km (81 mi) per charge. NiMH batteries have higher specific energy than lead-acid; prototype EVs deliver up to 200 km (120 mi) of range. New lithium-ion battery-equipped EVs provide 320–480 km (200–300 mi) of range per charge.

Sorry about that.

It was GM that needs to apologize. He screwed up lol. I updated my post with the difference in batteries for EV’s. I believe all cars are now using the lithium batteries

I am glad you are finally getting it.

It isn't a quality thing. It is a composition thing. Some batteries take a charge faster than others. Some can handle deep discharge where others cannot. It isn't isn't a quality thing. It may be a fit for purpose thing.

When I bought batteries for my boat I spent about $2K. I chose AGM 8D times 2 for the house bank. I needed slow discharge with deep cycles. AGM gives me a maintenance free approach (I don't add electrolyte). The 8D means they are big and each is rated at 255AH. I could have squeezed out more capacity with gel batteries but I would have to consider overheating being really bad for those, and frankly it would have been almost twice the cost. I did not want cheaper wet cells because I did not want the maintenance of them, and sealed wet seals are just silly on a boat. All three types were built rock solid, but there were factors that made me choose the batteries I did, it wasn't "quality".

For starting batteries I went AGM but not deep cycle. Starting batteries need to deliver lots of current now, especially when starting a cold diesel.

I could have gone with less quality of battery (cheaper) and they wouldn't last as long meaning they would, over time hold less a charge but do it sooner. They would be more subject to the stresses a boat puts on them.

A quality battery and a lessor battery both are subject to the same physics when it comes to temperature performance. They will both lose the ability to deliver full capacity. Usually the capacity of batteries is rated at 70F and a 20A load. Colder batteries don't deliver as much, higher loads mean less realized capacity.

Now Tesla may use a different chemistry and presentation of battery, but that is not quality. It is like saying an NFL football is more quality than a college. They are different and are different for purpose.

Dude, you do realize quality is part of composition? Quality control during design and fabrication. Geez Symantecs, you win. lol

Dude do you realize there are several different types of battery chemistry? That has nothing to do with quality. But thanks for trying.

Your sounding like my wife again bro.

Duh. get back in the kitchen and cook something that doesn’t kill anyone. The chemistry an engineer uses is part of the composition. Hence it’s added or lost value in the quality of the product. You loose but thanks for trying.

Do you even have a clue as to the word salad you are trying to serve?

Go back to simply raging because someone thought something not on agenda.

Good luck with that. When you're trying to argue with someone who is using a poor example of semantics it's futile.

At least I am not someone that makes assertions then can't do anything but try to find a way to not defend them.

You have yet to even try and explain how "quality" batteries resist losing capacity in cold. Maybe it is just magic.

The problem is I never said that to begin with. Making things up doesn't help you. Higher quality batteries perform better in all conditions than batteries of a lower quality. That doesn't mean that weather doesn't effect them all to some degree. You're going to have to do better than that.

And yet you continue to argue it. I am not sure you really ever know what you post. I think you say words to argue then move on.

So again, define "higher quality batteries". What do you think makes them better quality and how does that overcome chemical reaction?

I did not argue it. I'm done showing you why higher quality batteries get more range in all weather conditions. The way Tesla batteries are designed was posted as the perfect example. You yourself are the one that posted this............



So the battery chemistry used does not make a difference in how the batteries perform? Or a battery that performs better is not of higher quality because it was assembled using battery chemistry that makes them a better performing battery?

I'm not sure you even hear yourself but you've become tiring and boring at this juncture.

Quality; the standard of something as measured against other things of a similar kind; the degree of excellence of something.

The very word quality is used to describe how one thing performs better than others of a similar kind.

So yes, you're basing your argument on nothing more than semantics. And not doing a very good job of it at that.