DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Mass Shootings Continued

I've had complete idiots pull a gun on me three times in public. Once, just outside a bar on a late weekend night, when my buddy got jumped, a guy about half my size come from behind and put his 380 just behind my temple and said, "stay out of this." I slowly turned my head to see him, only to realize how small he was and that he was shaking! His friend put him up to it because I was fresh out of boot camp wearing a uniform, and he didn't want to fight me. My best friend's big brother was there though and knew this guy. He walk right up to him, talking calmly, and reached out, putting his thumb between the hammer and the firing pin and just took his gun, probably saving my life. The whole episode lasted two minutes tops, but it was a terrifying two minutes for me.

The second time was in the parking lot of Westland Mall in my early thirties. I was trying to turn left into a parking spot another guy was backing out of when a punk ass kid, 20-ish, comes the other way and stole the spot. I had my signal on waiting and couldn't believe he just did it. I look at him and said, "you're an fn a-hole," but using the actual words. So he pulls a big desert-eagle-looking gold-tone gun and points it at me, and asks, "how bad you want it?" I pulled away saying "to that ad,' and I was shook, couldn't believe a kid pulled a gun on me over a parking spot.

The third time I was walking to a friend's car with him to go on a sales call from an office building on James Rd. My friend is 6'3" and about 290 lbs at this time. We get to his car and go to get in when two black guys came up behind us without us knowing and pulled a gun to rob us. They both looked to be about 19-20 years. They got him for like 5 bucks cash and some lottery scratch-offs. The second guy come to me and saw I had no wallet on me and then bolted. My wallet was inside my suit jacket, luckily. We were scared at the time due to the gun, but after a day or two we were more upset we let it happen. We both knew better and were more aware, but were caught up in conversation and distracted.

I've been shot at as well, or at least I thought I was being shot at. My older cousin and I were night fishing, and some kids wanted to scare us. At first, they were sneaking up on us in the woods, and my cousin started talking crap out loud. I thought it was an animal, but it was people, so he yelled at me to bring him the pistol from the tackle box (we didn't have a gun). This scared them off though, but they came back later and fired a rifle in the air five or six times in a half-minute span. We were ducking and diving all over the place when the laughter started roaring out of the woods. It was kids that knew him from school. I was only around 13 and thought we were going to die that night. Never fished with him again.

I've been in many scrapes over the years with battle scars to prove it, but I was never dumb enough to fight an idiot with a gun. And in my opinion, there are about 20% more idiots today. Soft-ass men who would never throw a fist but will draw a gun on somebody are the most dangerous fools in the world. Most would never want to kill you, but being nervous, scared, and stupid or suddenly under a threat of their own doing, they man up and pull out their equalizers... This usually goes bad.

You also have the same or similar type of idiot that get napoleon complex when they get a gun. The gun makes them FEEL tough. Personally I think we need gun better and more rezsterictive laws, but what we need MUCH MORE than that is less idiots.

Current laws don't do much to prevent murder. I am not sure why you and others seem to think more laws is the answer. The availability of a gun isn't what makes a person go out and shoot people. If people followed existing laws, we wouldn't have any crime, right?

If we didn't have any laws then we wouldn't have any crime either, right?

Mass shootings- the media/press sell ads- make money with clicks--bigger problem by far is SUICIDE by gun. We hold ourselves, US citizens as smartest, best, etc- yet gun wise, CANADA- similar to us culturally, seems WAY smarter on guns. Strict laws, guns for hunting and "fun at range"- NOT for self protection. Check the death numbers- WAY different. Gun owners/advocates PREACH people kill folks, not guns----BUT, availability and "crisis situations"/ mental illness/personal problems sure lead to LOTS of innocent dead.

Our fellow human beings to south- Mexico, South American- they real sweet with guns/ they kill each other lot more than we do- they buy, smuggle guns/ more gangs, drugs, than US- so don't think we are the only nation with the "Wild West"- guns rule/ not law.

I'm for the Canadian model- a law abiding citizen has NO access to assault weapons- has hunting and "fun guns", but military and cops only ones with most types of guns.

Lastly, Americans don't trust government, thus- I'm free and I will keep my freedom with MY guns. How many times has the government attacked "the people". Which police departments have ordered marshall law/ took control of city, when has our military ATTACKED our cities/ states and taken over. Do the roads get fixed/mostly, do kids get educated/mostly, who's REALLY afraid of US government....JMHO, that is complete BS. NRA, gun manufactures, other special interests- they are a HUGE piece of why we keep kill ourselves. MONEY and stupidity= why we will always kill each other with guns forever. We, Americans, have 65% of ALL world's guns....why? Safety, right.

Michigan State University tonight; multiple different officers reporting victims.

Couldn't find national coverage, I guess this crap is too common now. But here is the latest official tweet from around 9:17.

I have on the police scanner

We could talk about the crazy asian who ran down pedestrians in a uhaul today. Thats more interesting.

This is about the truth of it. We're completely desensitized to this at colleges now. It's ongoing, and I couldn't find a single station carrying it/reporting. CNN did write about it and Tweet. But that's the only major outlet I've seen. Eve's post is a good example of this.

I've seen it on CNN and FoxNews... sounds like one dead... haven't caught the guy yet...

It's been a couple years since I posted my well-worn catch phrase, reserved for times like this. I suppose it's appropriate to drag it out again... since hundreds of mass shootings have taken place since then. This time? Oh yeah- another school. We don't discriminate. We make sure that colleges, high schools and K-8 get equal doses of lead poisoning.


"Bang, bang.
Splish, splash.
Thoughts/prayers.
Rinse/repeat."

_____________


I can see no workable solution to this "problem." The genie is already out of the bottle.
There are now officially more lethal firearms in America than there are Americans (120.5 guns/100 people).

I placed the word 'problem' in quotes, because I personally don't see it as a problem at all. Instead, I see it as a natural consequence of our 2A, as currently interpreted/expressed.

................


Freedom is not now, never will be, and has never been free.

Each and every one of our freedoms comes at a price. Our freedom to drive from Long Island, NY to Long Beach, CA comes at the price of abiding traffic laws, acquiring driver's licenses/reg's, insurance and perhaps even making car payments. Our freedom to do so while impaired comes at the price of civil lawsuits/jail time, should something untoward happen due to our irresponsibility. Those are examples of personal freedoms/costs we individual Americans take for granted, as 'EveryDay's Price of Admission.' Our societal freedoms come at a price, as well. This law is universal. People? Societies? No difference. Every right/freedom we 'enjoy' exacts a price from us.

Our societal freedom to own lethal weapons comes at the price of wet holes in human flesh.
Direct correlation. Cause/effect.

There is no escaping this fact.

The 'evolution' of the internet since its advent has truly opened my eyes to one major revelation: mental health issues in our community are deeper and more pervasive than I ever imagined- by at least an order of magnitude. And now, we are all armed to the teeth with devices that that can end another's life in less than 2 seconds.

We should all just skip the pretense and performative hand-wringing. We should all dispense with the hollow, insulting "thoughts/prayers" cliché... and become adults about this whole thing. We should accept our reality: America has wet streets and 3 ft. caskets because this is the America we've created.

E Pluribus Unum.

It's not a "problem."
It's a mirror.

A more expansive and thoughtful version of my opinion that anyone and everyone who is an advocate for gun rights and who is unwilling to explore any form of reform or government regulation - is 100% happy to accept these mass shootings and people of all ages - young and old - being slaughtered. Because that's just the way it will always remain without some effort to change. Even with change it will probably continue because there is no miracle solution - but at least to attempt change is to attempt to stop or reduce these deaths instead of accepting them.

Sensationalized idiocy.

And that there folks is exactly what the GOP wants. Desensitize us idiots from the truth.

Wish I knew the answer to mass shootings. I do not know of a way to eliminate them entirely.. Doubt there is really a way to do it.

People that are nutty enough to shoot a bunch of folks like this are going to find a gun somewhere. That ship has sailed. So getting rid of guns or outlawing them simply won't do the job.

I have one thought on the matter and it requires the NRA and other gun related organizations to come out in favor of gun safety and control and not just mouthing the words... They gotta quit saying everyone needs a gun.. we all know that there are unstable folks out there that most of us don't want to see carrying a gun of any kind.

We all know the NRA won't do that. We know they are supported by Gun makers. The NRA helps them increase sales.


I saw a photo of a guy carrying a semi auto rifle into a Dunkin Donuts store.. Can someone explain why he felt the need to do that. I mean was he afraid he'd be attacked by a donut?

Every Dunkin has one. He shoots the holes in the donuts, bro!

LOL - so you think they are unhappily accepting that the slaughter will continue? Unhappy just unwilling to try to do anything about it.

Hey your post was deep and I can see you put a lot of thought into it. Well done.

My take… this country needs a psychiatric evaluation. We’re a mentally unhealthy bunch. Mental health hospitals need reopened and funded. We need to start real dialog about mental health from an early age. We need to not ostracize those that seek help. We need to encourage more youth mental health councilors in our schools, starting at a young age. Insurances need to cover more extensive mental health visits. (Many insurances only have a small set number of yearly visits allowed.) Patients that have doctors writing scripts for mood altering drugs should also have a script for seeing a psychiatrist… period.
Next we need to, by whatever means, get the wage gap under control. We have a bunch among us that have essentially given up. They know that things such as home ownership, raising a family, or saving for retirement is out of reach while making $12-20hr in many places around the country. (And the “just move” crowd can stifle it. It’s expensive to move and not everyone wants to uproot from their family tree.) People that feel purposeless give up. When we combine ‘nothing to live for’ with underlying unresolved mental health issues… sprinkle in far too many guns…
Murika.

We also need an ad campaign to show people that the influencers and reality TV lifestyles are not the norm, and many are not even real.

We have a culture that is often thinking others are somehow way better off than the rest of us, and don't understand that most of it is smoke and mirrors, and that most people are in the same simple life as them.

The guy driving the fancy Audi 8, is probably up to his eyeballs in debt. The family living in the big house on the corner, spend every penny earned paying for and maintaining that house, while putting all their other expenses and vacation on credit.

Do you honestly believe that is the main motivation for mass shootings?

Mass shootings are motivated by different things but what you posted is pretty low on the list. You have everything from mental health issues which this nation broke down the mental health system at one time and hasn't adequately built back up. You have mass shootings motivated by hatred for people that are not like themselves. The hatred of people that don't think and share the same views as themselves. You have mass shootings because people become isolated, alone and desperate. Hell, you even have mass shootings because young guys can't get laid. The list is a long one. But I highly doubt "they're rich and famous while I'm broke and unknown" scartches the surface here.

Good points about mental health- PEW research- gun shootings- up 25% last decade- progress. Multiple gun owners, guns the answer- makes it easier for suicides and accidental home shootings- how many owners really use gun safes vs. just in a drawer. In Florida, a black man shot dead because he pushed wrong guy to ground...and, yes, he and his family parked in a handicap spot illegally which got the white guy's attention- dead for parking wrong- not good. Black lives matter- only when any cop causes a death. Black lives don't matter when the thousands killed by their "brothers" do the killing- check the stats and prisons. We got lots of problems- JMHO, more guns are not the answer. Peace.

Amazing, you can find the humor in that but can't find or offer a solution....

j/c

One of the things that concerns me is why there isn't more laws that hold people to account over being responsible with their guns. I mean a six year old shot a teacher at his school for God's sake! We see cases all the time where a small children shoot another child or someone else. Does the gun owner and parent have no legal responsibility for that? And while I know because there seems to be no common sense involved in such discussions, why do people that have guns stolen out of their unlocked cars hold no responsibility for those guns being used in future crimes? Oh I already know the replies because I've seen them before on here.

"Leaving a gun in your car isn't a crime but stealing that gun is a crime. Why punish the one who didn't commit a crime?" So I guess we can just ignore punishing people who don't live up to their responsibility as a firearm owners. All of the freedoms with none of the responsibility. Wonderful.

Not directly to mass shootings, but I believe it's related the mental health/depression we see. People are constantly fed an unrealistic portrayal of life. Add in the social media trolling and personal attacks, and I can see how someone falls into a deep hole of self loathing, that can lead to unimaginable events.

My post was more a reply to Portlands post about needing mental evaluation availability, and how social media's role in that.

I really don't disagree with you about online bullying bringing on and complicating mental issues and depression that contribute to some of these shootings. As far as things such as reality TV and things like online influencers creating a false sense of reality contributing we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You want me to offer a solution to a dude taking a gun into a Dunkin??

You're rather easily amazed. It was a joke, it would be funny to some -- obviously not to you. Your joke "was he afraid he may be attacked by a donut?" was fine though, because you offered a solution... Make the NRA quit telling people they need a gun as a way to stop mass shootings.

#56 mass shooting this year. February. Yikes. The gun culture has control of US. Kill or be killed.

No, I want you to take it seriously which clearly you do not. I want you to explain why he carried a gun in to a donut shop.. I want you to explain the need to carry a gun like as if it was the Wild Wild West!

Are Americans wanting a Gunfight at the OK corral?

Are gun toting Americans thinking this is the only way they can protect themselves from the liberal elite that want to come and eat your children is to carry weapons used in WAR?

What's next, M1A1 Abrahams tanks on main street USA to protect against pedophiles that want to run a brothel in the basement of a pizza shop in DC and then take over the world?

This is NOT a laughing matter.. But clearly some folks just don't get it. Ask the families that have lost children....

We have people that fight abortion just so kids can be born only to be shot dead in High School. Tell me how much sense that makes!

Uhhh... you need to cut back on the caffeine.

Another brilliant answer... Wonderful..

Lol …..so typical for those who can’t face the truth.

Why did he carry a gun into a donut shop?

My guess would be because he could, and he wanted to get a rise out of people. The problem is that it is people like him that project a bad image on the typical gun owner who would never consider doing such a thing.

Sadly, that is what we typically see, is that the worst of a group, becomes the identity for the whole group in the eyes of many.

I think it's the reality of all the victims that paints that identity. Corpses have a way of doing that. I don't actually disagree with you about how the average gun owner is certainly not represented by the extreme that commits these terrible acts. But with children being shot down in our schools, people being shot in stores, at their offices and almost anywhere you can think of, I don't think it's unrealistic for people to be concerned and outraged about it. While these victims too do not paint the a large percentage of people as a whole, just like these people committing mass shootings do not represent the average gun owner, with more mass shootings in 2023 than we've had days in this year, the reason for the portrayal and the outrage in society for me is understandable.

I think the total unwillingness of the far right extreme to oppose and fight against any reasonable gun legislation helps fuel these perceptions by the public. It's much like the debate we've had on this board many times. As a gun owner of several firearms myself, I think it's reasonable that in order for a person be able to legally carry a firearm in public, they should be required to complete a gun safety course. But as we've seen in many states, they keep passing laws for open carry with no required standard to confirm you are safe with a gun.

Sometimes I think it's those who fight any and all common sense gun regulations such as this that provide ammunition for those who oppose guns. I don't see the fault lying with either side in what the perception has become. As per usual I see it as a combination of both.

I think part of that problem is the people in charge. Too often everything is the extreme. "Don't take our guns", " We want a full Ban" When the truth is in the middle somewhere but we can't seem to get the emotions under control enough to have mature conversations on the topic.

I don't disagree with you in principal when it comes to the extremes of both sides. But as I addressed above, even when a common sense middle ground like a gun safety course to carry a gun in public becomes something that not only does one extreme oppose, but the elected officials in state after state does away with, the public at large, as well as myself, see that as one extreme is now dictating that anything that resembles common sense be thrown out the window. So while you may call that the extreme, it seems far more like the mantra of Republican governors and legislatures across the country. Which certainly helps paint the picture that it's not just the extreme who is unwilling to meet in the middle, but mainstream Republicans.

Yep….Mainstream republican’s be like…….

That is kind of my point. But it's not just a Rep problem. Dem cities have all out bans, yet they still have issues. And we will always have issues until everyone is willing to really listen to each other and work towards a resolution that is good for both sides of the argument, but we can't get there if people are going to hold their grudges, and claim everything is an all or nothing proposition, and figuratively put their fingers in their ears and sing la la la while the other side is talking.

I think gun bans are a ridiculous solution. Even strict state gun laws fall into that category. I mean how difficult is t to cross state lines or go outside your city to purchase a firearm? But to me that's more of a political talking point than anything. "Look how strict their gun laws are and they still have a high murder rate. So strict gun laws do nothing." Well of course they don't. Because their actions were also political. It's not complicated to understand you can just leave the city or cross state lines to purchase a firearm. So to that end I think we agree. Both sides use it as a political tool in a lot of situations.

On a national level I have seen what I consider common sense gun control legislation presented that has been denied. So to me it runs deeper than just a state or local problem.

I have no doubt it's for show.. But this something the NRA CAN do. They can teach their membership that just because something is legal, doesn't make it smart or even close to being right.

There are tons of good honest citizens that are responsible gun owners. One of them is a friend of mine. He's always got a gun on him.. ALWAYS..... but never flaunts it. Never would he ever walk into a donut shop or grocery store etc with his gun hanging over his shoulder. He's aware that it gives gun owners a bad name...

We never talk about the good guys that own guns...(or rarely anyway) They pay their NRA dues, stay out of the news, don't go shooting up a bar or nightclub or grocery store or public school or university campus. They'd never do that. But they get lumped in with the trash and unstable folks that would.

I would love to see a faction of the NRA that is made up of those responsible gun owners stand up and move the organization to do something to curb these senseless shootings. I'm sure they don't want the black eye they keep getting from those that oppose them.

You'd think they'd want to clear this up....,

By the way, thank you for the good response.

First off I could not find a single city in the US that has an all out ban on having guns. Maybe selling? IDK.

Anyways the facts show…… A study published in January by a leading non-profit organization that focuses on gun violence prevention found that there is a direct correlation in states with weaker gun laws and higher rates of gun deaths, including homicides, suicides and accidental killings.

The study by Everytown for Gun Safety determined that California had the strongest gun laws in the country. Hawaii topped the list with the lowest rate of gun deaths in the country while Mississippi led the country with both the weakest gun laws and highest rate of gun deaths.

“What this project does, is show what we’ve been saying for years: Gun laws save lives,” said Nick Suplina, senior vice president of law and policy at Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund. “We think this is going to be a really important tool for lawmakers, reporters and advocates that have been looking for the kind of visual tool that can make that case clearly.”

https://gunlawsuits.org/gun-laws/cities-with-strictest-gun-laws/