DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who can we trade?

There isn't a single player on the roster today who I would declare as being off-limits...not a single one. That doesn't mean I would "give" a guy(s) away.

IMO we cannot go into '23 without upgrading the WR room. We cannot spend money at QB like we did and surround that guy with a #1/#2 WR and a bunch of guys we wouldn't miss if they were no longer on the team. If Jeudy is actually the/that guy, then I'd have no issue trading a guy like Teller to get him. I'd much prefer to trade Ward over Newsome, but Ward's contract is toxic.

The sad thing is that these are probably the only guys that another team would even want:

Chubb
Bitonio
Teller
Garrett
Njoku
Cooper
Newsome
Emerson

Agree.

I'm not much of a fan of trading players for other players. It can work out, but I hate the idea of creating holes to fill another hole. No way would I want to trade Teller or Newsome. Teller played injured much of the season, but no one gets as many pancakes as he does when healthy. He gives us an identity as a physical offense. Newsome is going to end up getting a contract that will soar above Ward's and that is why he doesn't want to play the slot. Outside corners get paid much more than slot corners. The thing is that you have to look at the QBs in the AFC. Mahomes, Burrow, Allen, Herbert, etc. A team can't have too many good corners.

I'd be great w/a trade that was similar to the Cooper trade we did last year, but I don't like player for player trades for the most part. Not saying I am right and you are wrong. Just my opinion on the subject.

It's just my opinion but thinking about trading Teller when you already have question marks on the OL at center (deciding between the cheap Harris or the much more expensive and talented Pocic) and a weak LT in Wills that the Browns have to decide by May on the 5th year option is a recipe for disaster for our 230M QB. That puts 3 question marks on the OL and that's a questionable move IMHO. Would a WR or DT bring more value to the team at the expense of the OL?

I like Emerson and my concern is not with him as a player but the continued injury status of Ward. With Williams being a FA and likely not signed and trading away Emerson, what happens to the defense with an injury at corner when your 2 primary backups/spot starters are gone?

Maybe the Browns should look at Delpit or Johnson to trade. The defense is missing a true FS and maybe one of these two are expendable. The only other players on the defense that might bring a little something could be JOK because I think the LB corp is going to be retooled and Winfrey where I'm not impressed so far, and the Browns should get what they can while they can.

On the offense, the Browns only have 3 players IMHO that might be expendable. The first would be Wills because I don't believe he's earned his 5th year option and is the weak link on the line. IMHO, the Browns could find a journeyman FA LT for significantly cheaper until they can address the position via the draft and use the money saved to resign Piocic which would be substantially smarter than dumping Teller and letting Pocic walk too. The second player would be DPJ. Though unpopular, IMHO, there's way better #2 or #3 WR's out there the Browns could get, and he is in the final year of his contract. The 3rd player you'd think should be Chubb because of his price tag and the highly unlikelihood that he'll be playing for the Browns in 2024 at over 16M but instead I'll go with Njoku who might draw a decent return and who I believe is probably the easiest player to replace on the Browns offense without losing much. He was better in 2022 but after 6 years of questionable results - is he really worth cap hits of 8.3M in 2023 and 18.4M in 2024? It's time to get out from under that bloated contract as soon as they can IMHO because like it or not, Njoku is a prime cap casualty in 2024 just waiting to happen.

We can need to either rework Myles Garrett's deal or trade him.

I'm guessing we would get a 1st, 2nd and a quality starter in return... as well as the cap relief.

I'm not a huge proponent, but I don't think it's as insane as many others do.

I agree don't trade Myles. I don't have a crystal ball but I'd be willing to bet that Jim Schwartz will get more out of Myles than Woods ever did especially if we can get another good pass rusher to play opposite of him. I wouldn't trade Nick Chubb either.

With the investment the Browns have made at the QB position one of the last things I would do is sacrifice any quality at OL positions.

I would love to have Jeudy on the team, however, he's going to be due a big contract soon and I am not sure that is in the cards for the Browns. I think they'd rather have someone on a rookie deal for the next several years.

It will not surprise me to see either Newsome or Emerson traded this offseason for a draft pick, I actually expect it. I'd prefer to keep Newsome over Emerson, but it's not a significant drop off from Newsome to Emerson.

Teller is a guy that I could see Berry trading, but I believe that will be next year and not this year. Same with Nick Chubb. I do not expect either player to play out their contract with the Browns.

There is a ton of pressure to win this year so it would be a surprise to see Berry move too many key players.

I tend to agree with you. I see this as a year Berry will kick the can down the road by choosing to restructure contracts rather than to make any major trades. The problem with that becomes that it will make it harder to trade these players when their contracts balloon in salary after such restructures. Restructuring makes it more cost prohibitive for teams to trade for them in future years after restructures.

I tend to believe the only contracts Berry restructures are players the Browns have under contract long term and intend to keep, i.e., Watson, Garrett and Ward.

This. They aren't going to restructure massive deals where they could cut the player in a year or two.

Not me. I hope, and expect, we keep Ward. Ward's overall performance outweighs any negative play. His injuries are a concern, I get that. The guy will only be 26 when the season starts and signed a massive deal not too long ago.

If Ward's contract is so toxic and everyone knows it, then why the hell would anyone trade for it? And, for the record, I don't think it is toxic as all contracts can be restructured, I just don't see that as a realistic thing. His cap hit in 2023 is manageable, and it's 2024 where it spikes. Maybe that is the year to worry about?

Looking at how the dead cap is structured in a reworked deal tells you more than anything else about what a teams option is for cutting that player moving forward.

Who can we trade?
NOBODY. The coaching is very lacking, and not doing enough?

2nd thought.
Who can we trade?
Can they trade Depodesta?

Can they please trade Depodesta, plea>>>>>se ...... plea>>>se trade Depo and Berry. Berry too.

Not doing that = more of the same at best
at Best the same. seven and ten, and twelfth place in the AFC.

I2th place in the AFC, if that's good enough then Whatever dude
C'est la vie.

We have two Berrys? Or are you just doubling down?

I don't believe you understand completely how the restructure works. Players contracts never balloon because the GM is pushing off the salary to future years, the players cap charge is what balloons not the contract. For example. let's take Johnson for example, Johnson is in the final year of his deal with the Browns. If the Browns decide to trade Johnson, his salary of 8.75M goes with him. Johnson's cap charge for 2023 is 13.5M because of the previous year(s), (yes plural - years), that the Browns restructured Johnson. Now you'd think that trading Johnson would save at a minimum 8.5M in salary and a 13,5M cap charge but because of league rules, Johnson's prorated costs then become immediately charged to the Browns. The net result is trading Johnson would mean the Browns would incur an immediate dead cap charge of 12.6M for all the future prorated bonus money the Browns moved resulting in a cap savings in 2023 of just $900,000. Just an FYI, Johnson has prorated bonus money scheduled for the next 4 years even though his contract expires after 2023.

Bottomline is the salary is not what makes the trade of a player in itself as the problem. Any Prorated Bonus is always the responsibility of the team the created the bonus.

If you understand the above, hope you do, then trading Teller is impossible for the Browns to complete. Teller's salary 12.5M in 2023, 11M in 2024, and 12.8M in 2025 which is very tradable. However, because Berry has moved so much of Teller's salary to a prorated bonus in previous years, trading Teller makes that bonus money charged to the cap in 2023 which would be $23,078,900 resulting in a cap loss of ($7,652,600). I guarantee you that Teller is not going anywhere in 2023 unless Berry wants to be immediately fired.

Ward's contract is very similar in that a trade would immediately cost the Browns in 2023 - 39.465M in dead cap charge because Berry has moved so much to the prorated bonus for a net loss of ($27,249,882) to the 2023 cap because the new team picks up his $4,041,000 base salary. Ward isn't going anywhere either.

There are about 10 other contracts that Berry has set up the exact same way. Other notes, Clowney has a 6.4M cap charge against the Browns cap this year for the prorated bonuses Berry set up that will now be due. Hooper has a 7.5M cap charge this year to the Browns cap. If the Browns don't resign Walker, he still will have a cap charge of 2.372M to the Browns cap this year - welcome to cap hell.

Got it. Thanks.

I will reiterate what I said earlier. The Browns could trade Wills for a 3rd round pick and kill two birds with one stone. Wills 5th year option will be in the neighborhood of 14M-16M for 2024. Naturally, his cost after that will be significantly higher if he signs a new deal. Wills was ranked 31st out of the LT's graded by PFF. The Browns could then sign FA Kelvin Beachum ARI to a new contract according to market value is 2-years, $7,466,486 or $3,733,243 per season. Beachum is a lot older thus the cheap deal but a much better bridge than keeping Wills until the Browns can draft a replacement. Beachum has also been quite reliable not missing any significant time since 2015. Beachum had a PFF grade of 70.6 which is significantly higher than Wills 62.9 and 7 points better in pass blocking which Watson would appreciate. With the savings gained for trading Wills, the Browns could now resign Pocic for his market value of 4-years, $28,828,127 or an Avg. Salary: $7,207,032. The Browns would be upgrading the line while saving close to 4M instead of giving Wills a 5th year option.

A move like this would control the cost of the OL and allow the Browns to get younger across the line when drafting Beachum's replacement rather than being stuck in a long-term deal for an average at best LT in Wills. I don't know if Berry would consider but giving Wills his 5th year option and downgrading at center by letting Pocic walk is going to make the OL unaffordable in 2023.

No, but thank you.

Wills is in an interesting position in that he is better than most claim he is but not as good as they want him to be. And what they want him to be is a Joe Thomas reincarnate. He is not and will never be. We've all seen what a legendary LT can be (maybe the best ever) and we've been spoiled in that regard among years of Browns' spoilage.

I am somewhat concerned with Wills. Not about his skill, but about his consistency and, maybe, laziness. He looks amazing at times and, at others, not so much. And in between those ranges, average to above average, but that's just me. I'm guessing, like many, the Browns pick up his option. I''ll be curious as to his motivation after that.

I am of the same opinion.

Please, then would someone tell me who the Browns can trade then? Anyone can throw out a name but most of the Browns players are untradeable because of the amount of prorated bonus that would immediately be added to this year's Browns cap.

Cost to the Browns if these players were traded because of guarantees and prorated bonuses:

Watson would cost the Browns a $35,972,000 cap hit in 2023
Garrett would cost the Browns a $35,171,360 cap hit in 2023
Ward would cost the Browns a $34,400,000 cap hit in 2023
Conklin would cost the Browns a $27,735,000 cap hit in 2023
Njoku would cost the Browns a $17,172,000 cap hit in 2023
Cooper would cost the Browns a $15,104,000 cap hit in 2023
Johnson would cost the Browns a $12,600,000 cap hit in 2023
Bitonio would cost the Browns a $12,300,000 cap hit in 2023
Teller would cost the Browns a $10,578,900 cap hit in 2023
Chubb would cost the Browns a $8,000,000 cap hit in 2023
Newsome would cost the Browns a $3,315,910 hit in 2023
Wills would cost the Browns a $2,972,348 cap hit in 2023
Grant would cost the Browns a $1,333,334 cap hit in 2023
JOK would cost the Browns a $1,034,990 cap hit in 2023
Emerson would cost the Browns a $869,340 cap hit in 2023
Delpit would cost the Browns a $747,284 cap hit in 2023
Elliott would cost the Browns a $224,259 cap hit in 2023
Bryant would cost the Browns a $192,258 cap hit in 2023
DPJ would cost the Browns a $46,652 cap hit in 2023

Restructuring contracts has consequences from kicking the can down the road,

Just an FYI, many of these players increase in cost to trade next year.

I'd trade Teller if we could get a 3rd rnd pick or a decent player in return then move Wills to RG and see what Hudson could do at LT and re-sign Pocic to play Center. I'd trade Ward if we could get a 2nd rnd pick or better in return, Ward can be a very good CB but he's some what up and down and just can't seem to stay healthy plus I like what I see in Newsome and Emerson.

Do you realize the type of players this group uses 3rd round picks on,
I wouldn't trade teller for a 3rd by this regime, or a 3rd in any way.

Please don't take this a being critical. It is not my intention. I think what you say makes sense on many levels, but it keeps bringing me back to the same questions. There are numerous positions the Browns must address this off season with WR being one of those. The Browns OL today already has question marks at LT and center. Wills has not performed at the level expected out of a #10 pick overall and Pocic is a FA with it looking more and more like Harris will be the guy with many questions still surrounding his play level. Trading Teller at this point for an "average guard" knowing those other OL issues exist would only weakens an OL that would appear to have questions already.

Just an FYI, Teller's cap cost for 2023 is $15,426,300 and if the Browns trade him, they will still have a cap charge of $10,578,900 for 2023 from "kicking the can down the road." (Note: I apologize for an earlier post where I listed Teller's dead money cap cost as being cut not traded, my bad)

Trading Teller would not only weaken an OL that already has questions this off season but would only net the Browns $4,847,400 in cap savings that wouldn't even be enough to sign Pocic for a year much less a high end WR.

I am not trying to be mean or hateful. It's just a simple request.

Does every thread have to become a salary cap thread? We all know your feelings on this topic. Talking about the salary cap isn't interesting or entertaining for most folks. It's great that you find it so fascinating, but can the rest of us discuss other topics instead of each one of them being overwhelmed by the constant gloom of the salary cap? Btw, I think a lot of people trust our FO to handle the cap. I have a lot more confidence of their ability in that area than i do their drafting prowess.

I'm not trying to be mean or hateful either but how can you possibly talk about trading any Browns player or inquiring about a player without knowing the effect it will have on the cap? If we're going to just leave this thread as a wish list the I'll start by trading Elliott for Aaron Rodgers to be our backup, then I'll trade Schwartz for Devante Adams, followed by trading Phillips for Aaron Donald, sign FA Hargrove, sign FA Bates and then draft nothing but LB's and DE's. I know that is just ridiculous but so is the thought of trading Ward and absorbing 34.4M in dead cap - you'd never know that without talking about the salary cap - would ya?

I'm not going to be talking about any trades because as I have already stated, I don't think player for player trades are a sound strategy when building your team. I was speaking for others who have talked about how they don't like how each thread is hijacked and we don't get to talk about football. I also have tried to explain to you that most folks trust our FO when it comes to figuring out the cap and contracts. I also didn't think you would agree to the request, but I tried.

It would be difficult to have an informed discussion without knowing the dead cap the team would pay when trading or cutting a player. I mean after all, Tellers name came up. Knowing the Browns would still be on the hook of 10.5 mil. for making such a move is certainly germane to the conversation and in my mind makes such a move impractical at that point.

Are you serious? Coming from the guy whose keyboard has the following letters worn off so much that you can't see them anymore: B,A,K,E,R,M,Y,F,I,L & D

Worn through without regard to the thread topic they were used in.

You seem to believe that you can post whatever you like...wherever you like...and then ask that others to not.

The hijacking of the thread is contained in your post by requesting that we talk about trading, acquiring, or resigning players without any knowledge as to how it will affect the team not only now but in the near future, If talking about football, in your mind, contains a conversation with only half of the information necessary to warrant a complete conversation containing all the relevant facts to make it a valid conversation then the whole forum would be a complete waste of time. Since you believe you are the watchdog over the forum, maybe you should list the guidelines at the front of each thread, so we all know what you consider hijacking or relevant. Afterall, "who can we trade," must not have any bearing on the cap now or in the future so absorbing a 34.4M cap hit for trading Ward is "a ok" in your book and shouldn't even be mentioned. Alrighty then.......

Depends how much Berry is willing to spend. The vast majority of the Browns players are untradable because of the huge, prorated bonuses attached to any player of value. Any player mentioned that actually does have value with a low dead cap threshold gets met with immediate negative connotations. There are a few that will indeed cost dead cap this year but would get the Browns out of ridiculous cap hits in the future. One that I mentioned is Wills because his cost will jump about 14M next season if they exercise his 5th year option and Njoku who's cap hit jumps from 8.393M in 2023 to 18.393M in 2024. Njoku already has 19.465M sitting in prorated bonus to be paid in future years so another restructure would put him over 30M in prorated bonus which would be almost as much as Ward. But hey, I've been told that the cap has nothing to do with the thread "who can we trade" so ignore if you wish.

I think that was the entire point. Which one poster said shouldn't be a part of the discussion.

But you don't know that trading Teller would weaken the Oline, it would depend on who replace him with. I would trade Teller if we could get a 3rd rnd pick or better and move Wills to RG where I think he would be a lot better than he is at LT. As for re-signing Pocic, he played last year for $1.2 mill so the $4,847,400 may be enough.

You are right that I don't really know that trading Teller would weaken the line, but you equally don't know that it wouldn't. According to SpoTrac, Pocic's market value is 4-years, $28,828,127 for an average salary of $7,207,032 per year so I'm pretty confident that $4,847,400 is not enough to secure Pocic.

In your scenario, trading Teller for a 3rd round pick or better would cost the Browns a dead cap hit in 2023 of $10,578,900. Moving Wills to RG creates a question mark at RG but I do think that's a better position for him, still no extra cap to sign Pocic, and now the Browns have an opening at LT. I suppose anything is possible and I'm not trying to be negative, IMHO though, the scenario doesn't improve the Browns o-line and there would still be openings and question marks.