DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Constitutional Convention 2023

https://conventionofstates.com/stat...nvention-of-states-article-v-application

19 States down - 15 to go.... Get ready. I think this will be something that the Right pushes hard for over the coming years.

Outstanding interview on NPR this morning with Mike Collins and Former U.S. Sen. Feingold. Very grounded, very factual.

https://www.wfae.org/show/charlotte...ses-dangers-of-constitutional-convention

I can't listen to the show right now.

That said I do not think we will see a convention. It is a pipe dream for some and they likely sepulcher find it turns to a nightmare.

In other words, the right is pushing for civil war. States removing Federal authority and instituting their own republican controlled federal government. Not surprised. We’re doomed. Putin wants this so much, and wins.

Well worth the effort to listen to it - I agree it's unlikely. But I think that it's unlikely if people pay attention and discuss it as opposed to making assumptions. I never thought I would see the SC packed with partisan far right judges who lied about Roe vs Wade and then overturned it. I never thought I'd see the non-peaceful transition of power. I never thought I'd see politicians in this country align themselves with Russia over a country like Ukraine. But here we are.

Technically a convention could be a revolution but you are just rheeing with all that.

No one lied about Roe. It was incorrectly decided. There was a peaceful transition.

I'll try to listen later as it should be interesting to see what their take on it is. I believe people want convention believe only what they want will appear and pass. Once you open the door it will get ugly.

After a murderous and violent mob attacked our Capitol failing to stop it. Remember?

Technically a revolution is a declaration of civil war. But never mind that. Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead.

I believe that during the nomination and confirmation process Kavanaugh and Barrett hid and avoided revealing their true sentiments towards Roe vs Wade - that's called dissembling. You can choose to believe what you want - but I'm very comfortable with my statement. And if you believe that Jan 6th was a peaceful transition of power - I believe you are wrong. I believe Trump is still the only POTUS never to recognize his defeat and concede. Maybe you think that doesn't matter - it matters to me.

It is not unusual for SCOTUS nominees to be evasive during confirmation. Kavanaugh and Barrett were no different than most others including Jackson.

The transfer of power did not happen on Jan 6. Trump acts like a petulant child, though a lot of them do he just doesn't hide it as well. The transition of power occurs during the inauguration. Trump is not the first executive politician to not agree with an election and continue to claim winning after losing, he won't be the last.

https://wolf-pac.com/ is a progressive PAC that has been organizing a push to add an amendment to the constitution to ensure election integrity. All sides have been complaining about this, yet since 2017 only four states have passed the application docs to take part. And if you read the pages on the site describing the problem and cure, I bet most on the right would agree... but not their politicians. It would return the power of government to the people limiting the influence of special interests and dark money.

Well, you could always pass laws, or amend the constitution.

Yeah, the challenges of a constitutional convention would be a food fight at best or more likely a civil war even on getting basic agreement on its structure. Small state versus big states, structure and passage rules etc.etc.

Be careful what you ask for.

You could get also...

A rewrite of the second amendment.
A balanced budget act.
A change in Citizens United.
A clarification as to the concept corporate person-hood.
Who knows what else.

Since there are no rules on how or what would be the format... I predict total chaos.

I wish there really was a way to get the fat cash out of government. They say they are public servants but most get rich off that service. I am not opposed to people getting compensated for their time but it is way beyond the pale how rich some of these get, especially when they pass legislation that fattens them up and causes the average american to lose money.

Check them out; it's open to anyone. Maybe you can spark the right.

I think one way would be term limits, but I am not one that thinks 12 years is the right solution. 24 is more reasonable. We need turnover at the top. Pre-baby boomers are running the country, the oldest baby boomer will be 80 in 3 years, and they are sitting on the outside.

I am not suggesting that being a boomer is right or wrong, but the fact that leadership of the majority is held by those of different eras is inconsistent.

It is “reverse age-ism” if you want to invent a term.

I'm sorry Frank, but that's just silly. Have nominees been evasive in the past, you bet. But how many have flat out lied like Kavanaugh, Barrett and Gorsich. I can't find one.

We all understand that the transition of power took place at noon on Jan 20. We also know that the formal process began on Jan 6 to confirm the results of the election. That's the day that Trump decided to cause unrest.

If you know of another person in a race for President that carried on like a complete fool for this long after the fact, name them?

ewww boy. Excuses Excuses, for who? Trump! When will these MAGA parrots stop the insanity and just step off the crazy train for a minute.

That's pretty funny... Trump took it to a whole new level.... where no man has gone before...

No, Trump owns this one, he is the GOAT.

There is no equivalent, Trump is in a league of his own. History books will be rewritten, and probably laws passed to prevent the garbage that he tried.

Trump lost the election, and could not admit defeat. It was not close.

“You are well aware that I came to this proceeding to be judged as a judge, not as an advocate. Because I am and hope to continue to be a judge, it would be wrong for me to say or preview in this legislative chamber how I would cast my vote on questions the Supreme Court may be called upon to decide. Were I to rehearse here what I would say and how I would reason on such questions, I would act injudiciously. Judges in our system are bound to decide concrete cases, not abstract issues; each case is based on particular facts and its decision should turn on those facts and the governing law, stated and explained in light of the particular arguments the parties or their representatives choose to present. A judge sworn to decide impartially can offer no forecasts, no hints, for that would show not only disregard for the specifics of the particular case, it would display disdain for the entire judicial process.”

Ruth Bader Ginsburg.



"It is settled as a precedent of the Supreme Court, entitled the respect under principles of stare decisis," he said. "The Supreme Court has recognized the right to abortion since the 1973 Roe v. Wade case. It has reaffirmed it many times."

Additionally, Kavanaugh said it can be appropriate for the court to revisit prior decisions. "I listen to all arguments," he said. "You have an open mind. You get the briefs and arguments. And some arguments are better than others. Precedent is critically important. It is the foundation of our system. But you listen to all arguments."


Kavanaugh did not lie, he simply refused to prejudge a case. Because he did not give the answer some wanted him to give the narrative is he lied. And had he said he would overturn Roe during confirmation as soon as Dobbs arrived the call would have been "recuse! recuse!"

I also agree with RGB that Roe was poorly decided and was monolithic. It was a strategic mistake legally. Her concerns about it came to pass, exactly how she thought they would. Not from judicial activism but from the fact is was made of legal glass.

So yer saying Trump was the greatest.

he acted like a petulant child, he is not the first to lose an election and do so. HRC called it a stolen election right up to 2020. I suspect the party finally got her to shut up about it for fear it could prove damaging in the upcoming election. Abrams never capitulated and acted like she was running for reelection during her second loss. You don't get to be governor or president without having a massive ego and being over the top ambitious.

Trump told his supporters the election was stolen. That this cheating was done in several states and still hasn't conceded. No matter how hard anyone tries to rationalize this, it was unprecedented. All anyone has to do is look at those speeches given at that rally on Jan. 6th to see this crowd was angered, outraged and sent to the capital. Nothing in our nations history compares to that. Suggesting otherwise is sick and repulsive.

whatabout Hillary now? oh my. Thanks for making my day. IOH

So an example is asked for then the cry of "whaddabout!" when given.

Sure thing.

False equivalency on steroids.

You probably should have your urine tested.

The hyperbole would disqualify you from Olympic competition.

The person who conceded and congratulated Trump?



Yeah, it isn't the same thing.

Same old, same old... Ironic how the whatabout Trump crowd can't face the truth.




'You can have the election stolen from you,' Hillary Clinton ...

USA Today
https://www.usatoday.com › onpolitics › 2019/05/06
May 6, 2019 — Hillary Clinton says she has been telling candidates seeking the 2020 Democratic nomination that even if they run a perfect campaign, the election could be ...
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Clinton Won't Rule Out Questioning 2016 Election, But Says ...
NPR
https://www.npr.org › 2017/09/18 › hillary-clinton-says-...
Sep 18, 2017 — Hillary Clinton tells Fresh Air the mechanism for such a challenge does not exist in the U.S. "and usually we don't need it." She also says she is ...
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Videos

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May 6, 2019 — Fox News contributor Dan Bongino: How can the woman whose team colluded with Russia during the 2016 campaign claim the election was 'stolen' from her? Hillary ...
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12 Days That Stunned a Nation: How Hillary Clinton Lost

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Aug 23, 2017 — Less than two weeks before Election Day, Hillary Clinton's campaign held a clear lead in the polls. Republican Donald Trump would ultimately win. How?
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Computer scientists say they have strong evidence election ...

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Clinton memoir looks at 2016 election, Russia, sexism - Reuters
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Jul 27, 2017 — Hillary Clinton's memoir about her failed attempt to win last year's U.S. presidential election will be called "What Happened," a declaration rather than a ...


Dems losing voting challenges but winning on optics - Politico

Politico
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Nov 7, 2016 — Democrats have little concrete to show for a week of legal battles charging Donald Trump and his allies with a sweeping voter intimidation campaign, ...

Conway rips into Hillary Clinton for suggesting 'election stolen'

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Here's What We Know So Far About Russia's 2016 Meddling

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Experts Urge Hillary Clinton to Challenge Election Results

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Sep 11, 2018 — Previous studies have found that after an election, supporters of the losing candidate tend to be more likely to believe that votes were counted improperly.

Hillary Clinton Questions Legitimacy of 2016 Election Results

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Here's the real reason Hillary Clinton lost the election - CNBC

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Why Hillary Clinton lost - Brookings

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The history of 'rigged' US elections: from Bush v Gore to Trump ...

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Hillary Clinton: You Can Run The Best Campaign And "Have ...

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An examination of the 2016 electorate, based on validated ...

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Hillary Clinton on Twitter: "Donald Trump refused to say that ...

Twitter
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Oct 24, 2016 — @HillaryClinton. Donald Trump refused to say that he'd respect the results of this election. That's a direct threat to our democracy. 5:53 PM · Oct 24, 2016.


AP FACT CHECK: On a doubt voiced about 2016 election result

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Hillary Clinton Says Election Was 'Stolen' From Her

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Rigged Election Claims May Leave Lasting Damage - Fortune

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Report on the Investigation into Russian Interference in the ...

Department of Justice (.gov)
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Four Years Later, Bitter Hillary Clinton Claims 2016 Election ...

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The Left's Change of Heart on Accepting Election Results

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Let me know when you can show trump conceding to Biden. I'll wait.

You used Fox news as a source so it must all be fake.

So HRC complaining about stolen elections is ok because you think Trump didn't concede?

The whaddabout is strong in you.

So in other words I did show where Clinton conceded and you can't show where trump conceded and now you're trying to make that a me issue. Thanks for playing. Trump still claims he won Clinton admitted she lost. I know that's hard for you to digest.

Since you need to be a pedantic whatddaboutshowme!

There ya go.



Yes I know you quibble he didn't use the exact words you envision in your head that have to be the exact words spoken or it doesn't count.

So you call the fact that he in no way conceded as quibbling?

There's the spin.


As predicted he didn't use the words you think he should have and said it the way you think he should have. He conceded, your spin doesn't change that.

Oh, sorry, I forgot.. TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMP!! *shake fist in the air*

He in no way, in any form of words admitted he lost the election. Which words did he use that indicates he admitted losing the election? He also didn't in any way congratulate the winner which is customary in a concession speech. It has nothing to do with the specific words used here and everything to do with the fact nothing in the words he used even suggest a concession. And all you can do in response is claim it's all about trump instead of just admitting that wasn't in any way a concession speech. Weak.

It was a concession speech, that it doesn't meet your muster does not change that. But I did predict you couldn't accept it if it didn't have the words you think it should have "He also didn't in any way congratulate the winner which is customary in a concession speech." The cad... didn't say congratulations.

BTW, it was before 1/20 so the peaceful transition of power could occur.

concede

admit that something is true or valid after first denying or resisting it.



Please show me anywhere he conceded defeat in the 2020 election.

For a president to be sworn in, it must first be certified by congress. An attempt was made to interfere with the process to conform that certification.

That you can't accept it does not mean it didn't happen.

So you can't. There was nothing in the video you posted where he admitted defeat. If there is, tell me where.