DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum 1986 and 1987 AFC Championship Games.....

Just an fyi.....on the NFL Network tomorrow early morn....

The Drive and The Fumble......

......3am and 4:30am.

Obviously "chopped down versions", but for those who never saw the games, etc, etc.....

Anyone who saw the games can tell you exactly where they were and their reactions.

I think Julia Childs reruns overdubbed in Korean are playing at the same time on another network.

Which form of sado-masochism will I choose?

That was awesome!

And that's hard to believe after 35 years. SMH

The Fumble is the one that really gets me, don’t get me wrong though the Drive does too. I forget the show, but they broke the Fumble down. And it came down to Webster Slaughter nonchalantly coming off the line and not even getting a finger on the man who caused the fumble. And then Byner, one of my favorites at the time was traded out of Cleveland.

The Drive was worse for me. Probably because that was the best team we had since the early to mid-60s. I thought the defense took a step backwards the following year.

I was at the drive game. Sitting at about the 25 yd line about 20 rows back on the side where Karlis kicked from in OT. That kick didn't look like it was between the uprights from where we were at.

j/c:

Personally, I don't care for the Webster Slaughter bashing because a lot of people who might be reading might get the wrong impression. Slaughter was an extremely hard-nosed player who gave his body up to make tough catches over the middle time after time after time. He also made huge plays for our offense, such as making the big grab in the playoff comeback win over the Jets when most of the fans had already walked out. I'll never forget the time he caught a pass over the middle against SF w/the bonecrusher FS Ronnie Lott running full speed at him. Webster made the grab despite a vicious high hit from Lott, that would have been an ejection in today's game. Not only did he hang on, but he bounced up like a cat and did a little victory shuffle. I was at camp one time and they were running plays from the 20 where a WR/TE was matched on a DB. The throws were all to the end zone. One on one each time. Felix Wright was lined up on Webster. He threw a flat-handed shot to Slaughter's chin w/the heel of his hand. It knocked Webster's strap loose and his helmet was turned sideways. Webster still beat him over the top for a TD pass and then spiked the ball right in Wright's face. Two tough guys going at it. That was how the entire team [for the most part] played the game under Marty. Make no mistake, Slaughter was a badass and he doesn't deserve harsh criticism.

I have watched the 1986 game a lot, but always seem to hit stop right when Mark Mosley's KO is downed at the 2. Not sure why I do that. Maybe the same reason I start watching the Jets 2OT game from the Gastineau roughing penalty.

AS an aside, I always wondered if Dennis Smith (I think that was the Denver DB guarding Brennan) hadn't slipped, and it took the Browns 6 plays to get into the end zone, how things would have worked out.

I was nearly in tears when Brenna scored. I thought the Browns were finally in the Super Bowl. I think the Football Gods hate me.

It's a shame that guys who were really good get labeled by one play. Hell, Byner was the main reason we got back in the game. We were getting blown out. Fans hated him after the fumble. We ended up trading him for Mike Oliphant. Slaughter actually caught the TD pass that brought us w/in one score. I really don't want to assign blame, but the freaking D gave up 38 points and that was in the 1980's before all the rule changes that has led to high-scoring games. We could have tied it had that fumble play not occured, but I was not confident that we would have stopped Denver had we tied it. As it was, and this is w/out watching the game again......Denver took a safety and we ended up throwing a Hail Mary at the end of the game.

I thought we had a better D the previous year. Yes, we gave up the drive. We lost 23--20 in OT, but I think people forget we had the ball first in OT w/good field position. That kick by Karlis looked bad to me. I was actually jumping up and down that he missed it. I have never been as heart-broken about one game that I wasn't a part of as that particular game.

Denver got blown out in the SB both years. Everyone pretty much knew the Browns were the better team and would have made a more competitive opponent, but that's the way it goes and it started the "curse of Cleveland" discourse that became a thing.

I know one thing. I really loved those teams under the leadership of Marty. We were hard-nosed. We competed every week. The guys were likeable. The city was in love w/the team. I remember one night being in a hole in the wall bar back then and it was packed. Three deep. That took up the entire area from the bar to the booths. Pool tables in a separate room in the back. Anyway, a segment came on the TV about Elway. It wasn't game day or anything. Just a Friday night in a small town, neighborhood bar. One dude started chanting "Elway Sucks!" "Elway Sucks!" In an instant, the entire bar was chanting the same thing. It literally gave me goosebumps. What a cool atmosphere.

I just hope we can get some of that magic back again, so old farts like us can finally experience the true passion of being a Browns fan!

I assume you mean standing there watching Byner, instead of blocking the man who made the play?

I hear you, especially about Byner. I remember the day we drafted Slaughter that year. I took the day off work (a Tuesday back then) and we didn't have a 1st round pick, it went to Buffalo as part of the Bernie Kosar supp draft trade. I sat and watched with my Ourlad's draft guide I ordered through the mail. I was so angry when we drafted Web because he was about the 8th best WR remaining on the board at the time, I wanted Walter Murray. I was thrilled how Web turned out.

I rarely get down on any players from the Browns unless I feel it is bad effort or attitude. I tend to get less emotionally involved now due to years of close calls, but I never sat down watching a game on TV 20+ years ago, My kids still joke about me yelling at the tV when they were little.

40 years ago.... brutal

I'd rather not watch either of those games. It still hurts after all these years albeit not as much.

Yo. Which game featured the lateral by Elway that was recovered by the Browns... and then overturned via replay?

That was maybe the most angry I've ever been as a Browns fan. Pretty sure it was Big Daddy that recovered the lateral and scored. I knew they weren't going to allow the TD as the whistle probably blew. I was in shock when they called it a forward pass.

I would love to see that play again but google will not cooperate with my vague queries.

was at the drive, to this day I say the kick missed!

I sat right behind the goalpost with some friends of mine, and 2 lovely ladies I met while camping out for tickets when they went on sale. It ruimed the whole mood, because the kick was no good.

But history says it was and we are left to ponder.

To me it was tie goes to the runner. It was close. When that close it is going to be called good.


Well, unless we kicked it....lol


HANG THE KICKER!!

I would rather sit in a chair for a root canal than watch the Browns lose in their last great hurrah..

I did not re-watch them either, but the memories are still very vivid.

The red right 88 team was pretty darn close if not better than the drive team. I do not know if the Browns would have won super bowls if they beat the Bronco's either the drive or fumble years. But I am fairly confident if the Browns beat the Raiders on the red right 88 year they win the Super Bowl that year.

Agreed.

By rule the "drive" could not win that game, it could only tie it, because in that year, 2 point conversions were not available in the NFL only in the college game.
The decades long celebration of what didn't even matter is
Just another example of discriminating against Ohio in sports, among tens of thousands of examples.