DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Looks like Charges coming against Trump

You can't hold trump accountable for anything because even if he's proven to be a criminal it will only embolden the right.

I know that's in purple, but just let that sink in for a minute.

So, I'd guess there will be a giant brawl between the people dancing in the streets and the people rioting in the streets.

I had no idea dancing in the street was a crime?

Who said it was?

As long as we understand the difference I'm fine with that.

Personally, I want Trump to go to jail. I dont want him running for president. I've had enough of that circus.

same.

I'm pretty sure most logical/middle-of-the-road people feel this way.

Couldn't agree more.

I agree that I don't want to see him running for President. However, I kind of want him to go on the lam and disappear into ignominy. Don't really want to go through more mud raking for months/years or however long the trials and appeals would take. Plus, there's the chance of him someway weaseling out of things in court. Might have to also consider the "martyr" angle if he were to die in prison. Karma will catch him eventually. The less I have to see, hear, or read about him the better.

Lawyer who represented many of the Jan. 6th rioters compares Trump's situation to Jesus Christ....

That's sort of funny - you just wrote a long post in response to a somewhat off the cuff response to a comment in a post of mine where I said "nothing will change" - you responded by getting on your high horse about how such a (to paraphrase) lackadaisical was essentially part of the problem and how that in order to change things people have to engage and get involved. And here you are with a post about wishing things away, hoping Trump will meekly disappear from the political landscape and somehow karma will get him.

As ever you are the contrarian.

What are you or I personally able to actively do about Trump? Expecting the government/justice system to do something about him isn't you doing anything. Saying he should go to jail is nothing but words. What you were complaining about was things being unable to change. Those things wouldn't change because you seem to believe the government is incapable of it. Now you're trusting them to be competent? But of course, this is the Palus Politicus forum so I should have expected your false equivalences.

I'm personally working on building community and improving food systems. I'm not going to play make believe and act like my saying someone should go to jail is me actively doing something positive. Talk about riding a high horse. Enjoy this cesspit, Trump is a feces magnet and you're welcome to keep him in your thoughts. For me, he's 76 and is likely to be dead soon, life expectancy being what it is. I'd rather not waste time thinking about him that could be better spent doing something productive. I'll leave you to this forum and stop opening your posts.

Do you think you might be in jail if you took payoffs from the Chinese? Democrats are turning America into a 3rd world country.

LOL. So you will tackle one nationwide problem but not make any effort regarding another - even if it is to post what you think is right? As for my comments in both posts - I don't expect my comments on a football fan political forum to change anything. I am merely observing and expressing an opinion or point of view. As absolutely always you choose to be a contrarian. In one you rail against an observation that "nothing will change" .... in the next post you think we should leave Trump be and rail against me when I point out the inconsistent perspectives.

In your other post you alluded to posters wanting to be right at all costs. I think you proved your point. Well done. And you proved yourself beyond all doubt a contrarian who simply wants to take an opposing view of whatever the subject may be.

You are kind of right, I suppose. I can make some effort on this issue here in some ways. While I can't/won't track down Trump, I can try to raise awareness in my online community as to potential alternatives and consequences that some might be too stubborn/lazy/distracted to otherwise see.

While you were accidentally right on that, there are some issues with the rest of your post. Some nationwide problems can be addressed locally. Some can't. I can build community locally. The standard definition of community is "a group of people living in the same place." I can build greenhouses and plant gardens and orchards locally. Even if I wanted to go Judge Dredd on Trump (which I'm obviously not going to do), he's nowhere near me.

I don't choose to be contrarian. I don't see most problems as binary. I present opinions that may be outside the standard either/or framework where there only are two sides that you seem to be stuck in. You seem to be stuck on essentially meaningless true/false questions. Should Trump be in jail? Yes or No. I'm saying whether or not Trump is in jail really won't change anything as far as the problems in this country related to him. His face on trial and in the news will just keep the hate and vitriol on both sides of the pro/anti-Trump divide stewing until in all likelihood something once again explodes like January 6th. Instead of keeping the kettle boiling, I would prefer that Trump quietly disappeared and shortly ended up in whatever personal hell he deserves. I'd rather not have him made into a martyr and have a white nationalist "jihad" break out in this country. In a perfect world, would I like to see him punished for his crimes? Of course, but this world is far from perfect. The theoretical ideal rarely survives contact with the real, messy world.

I don't allude to posters wanting to be right at all costs. I pretty much straight out say it. I don't think I proved the point you're thinking I did. I think the point I was trying to make went right over your head. My point is that most issues don't have simple right or wrong answers. Frequently people are so focused on what they think the only two options are that they're too blindered to figure out better options or to consider what the consequences of their simplified and artificially restricted two choice options are. That's largely how Trump ended up in the White House in the first place. Another point is that sometimes people aren't asking the right questions.

Should Trump be in jail? Sure, you're right. But, at what cost? What's putting on a political and legal circus while Trump's likely at home with an ankle monitor until he dies really going to accomplish? I doubt anything good.

My last post was on the hostile side and I wanted to try to exit on a more congenial note. I don't think I really succeeded on that intention. The word twisting and trying to fit everything into a black and white, two options world view that goes on frustrates me beyond reason.

The world isn't black or white. Its not binary. There's normally more than two options even if some of the options don't always appear to make sense until more digging or long term thinking is applied. Thinking you are the only person that thinks and feels that way is .... Incorrect. And yes, i think maybe that goes towards possibly you proving your own point that some posters only care about them being right.

As for Trump and what you can ans cant do... Clearly nothing you do or dont do seems probable to influence his legal outcome. But you've mentioned a couple of times the possible impact of his (we'll assume justified) prosecution might create with some. Do you not think on a local level you might influence hearts and minds in the same way your other efforts are intended to make? You don't even have to convince people.... Just open them up to questioning their confirmation bias, soften a hardline stance just a fraction. Itd be a positive if small result. To me its the same thing as you said you encourage young kids to do locally : think for themselves and find the right line of questioning.

No your point didn't whoosh over my head, but i appreciate that you think that.

It will remove him from any possibility of running for anything

How will his supporters take that?

Would the trial even conclude before the next election? Probably not the campaigning.

Also, there's the question of whether it actually would remove the possibility. It appears that legally, Trump could run for President even if a convicted felon.

Let's break this down:


That's what I said.


Also what I said.


While not really what I said, neither does it contradict anything that I said.


I don't think I'm the only one. That's a rather sad strawman.


Yes, your having to put words in my mouth in order for you to be right would seem to prove that some people only care about appearing to be right.


This is what I'm trying to do right now with you. Sadly, your hardline stance and confirmation bias seem impenetrable.


That's your opinion, and I'm clearly not going to convince you otherwise.

You don't say much about the riots all over the country by the left.

We have always had some political divide in this country, but not to the point we were willing to take political prisoners.

I hope not. Trump doesn't deserve either.

You do know whataboutisms are frowned upon by the trump brigade don’t you? So right back at ya…..

You don’t say much about cops with no knock warrants breaking into apartments of innocent citizens and killing them. Or cops killing innocent black folks when simply pulled over for a traffic violation.

I'd say something about it but you won't like it. But it mostly boils down to the statistics don't bear out the narrative.

Whatever. Statistics and narratives will never bear out why minor traffic violations of black man or women, could easily end in their death. You know? These are the things that cause civil unrest, protests, and rioting. When someone’s civil liberties are violated, people have a tendency to get upset. But we don’t want to talk about that do we?

I was agreeing with you but apparently that went right over your head as you put it.

As for straw men and proving I am right - not really, just highlighting what you wrote, how you wrote it and how it jives with your own comment about people only wanting to be right. I'm not the one who got hostile - then tried to write a less hostile post only to state that points wwent over other peoples head and that they failed to be less hostile. Again - not proving I am right or wrong - just highlighting some inconsistencies I see.

Back to the original posts and comments about Trump and whether we should discuss the issues - or simply hope for the best ... either is really fine with me because just like my comment that nothing changes is not having a positive or negative impact on the youth of today... nothing said on this board is going to have an impact on Trump (or players or coaches or FO or anyone else). But I do see a direct tangent between opening up peoples hearts and minds to search for alternatives and find the right/better questions to ask and discussing the Trump situation so some hard line Trump supporters *might consider that some of the charges and issues with Trump *might be legitimate and that violent protest wouldn't be a good response no matter what they believe. just my 2 cents and an opinion.

Well not only did a whole bunch of the "lefty communists" on this board call out the rioting as bad and wrong and perpetrators would be arrested.

But suggesting statistics don't back up police racism and highlight a huge problem that the Black Community has faced for decades that is now only getting some traction because of the access to phone cameras so many have now doesn't seem right. Killings or injustice handed out by the very law enforcement that is sworn to protect and serve is a real issue - and maybe you only intended to highlight that there aren't huge numbers, your comment feels like it dismisses the issues rather than accepts them.

I said a lot about them at the time. I said that anyone who broke the law should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The same things I said about Jan. 6th. I have no idea of what you mean by "taking political prisoners". That's a false narrative. Everyone accused of a crime has the option of a jury trial. To be judged by a jury of their piers. Anything else said is nothing more than propaganda that people are being brainwashed into believing.

I don't believe the wealthy, politicians or anyone else is above the law.

...Most people are fine about defending civil liberties as long as you are willing to consider the right to bear arms a civil liberty....

Too many people want it both ways. They want "their" civil liberties, but to hell with the other groups' civil liberties.

More binary thinking caused issues it seems to me. (As I try to steer things somewhat back on topic and away from this other rabbit hole that has been argued about ad nauseum.)

The narrative of "minor traffic violations of black man or women, could easily end in their death" it's not borne out though. The number of police contacts versus use of force do not bear that narrative at all. I'm all for holding government officials accountable for misdeeds, but I also know the narrative you are spinning is vastly overstated.

Should be interesting when the trump brigade is seen marching down Main Street chanting “Free our king”

I'm still not sure how your saying that I think something that I don't think and never said can be interpreted as your agreeing with me. To me, lies and fabrications are emotionally hostile. But, I'll let that be.

I never said hope for the best.

I tried to find a polite way to say that I wished Trump would die, and we could avoid a trial and its potential risk. I wasn't proposing a course of action. I was expressing an idle hope. Then I was looking at all the complicating factors implicit in a seemingly simple question of whether or not Trump should go to jail. You didn't seem interested in anything beyond a simple binary yes or no at the time.

You seem to still be focused on the Trump supporter side of the equation. It appears to be that binary paradigm cropping up again. It's fine to give them attention, but the anti-Trump side might want to consider that they should be careful with what they wish for.

Airing our dirty laundry for the world to see, the likelihood of additional civil unrest, the unlikely yet possible prospect of a "felon in chief;" they were factors I thought worthy of consideration. I was thinking the world would be a better place if Trump just weren't here. Then again, maybe I should be more careful what I wish for. Who knows what conspiracy theories might crop up.

Wishing for and expecting justice to be served shouldn't have a side. The fact that it does speaks volumes.

So in other words it’s embarrassing for us to indict, prosecute, and convict a deplorable man for his crimes? Because why? ….He’s a former POTUS with a bunch of thugs as supporters. And we can’t have them rioting in the streets for the whole world to see?

...We all know your affinity for riots.

I'm not saying we can't do it. I'm saying perhaps it would be better if we didn't have to.

Based on his actions it seems there are several criminal investigations that are ongoing. Each will be shown to a grand jury if it gets to that point. If a grand jury decides charges should be filed I think we have to. That's the way it works for everyone.

And BTW- Each and every poster who is tagged with being a liberal did call for those involved in the summer who broke the law to be arrested and prosecuted. I mean if that's what you mean by "affinity for riots." There has only been one man who has worked up the crowds and his followers to riot. And it hasn't been any of us in his latest call to "take our nation back". Which is pretty much the same rhetoric he used that caused the Jan. 6th riot. He knows what he is doing.

Which is why I hope he has a heart attack in the embrace of a black, male escort and we can see how fast his supporters scurry away. Preferably before more innocents get hurt.

I saw that you 'let that be' - or rather you did no such thing. You know maybe it's all me - but to me what you just wrote goes back to "I'm right" .... but we can disagree and move on.

You know the old saying.... “If wishes and buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have a very fine Christmas.”. j/k

But I think we both know that if he didn't die from that heart attack he would just call it "fake news" and he wouldn't lose a single follower. And that's the issue here. He has yet again used his rhetoric and deception to further enrage his base just yesterday.......

Trump says Biden ‘stuffed’ Manhattan DA’s office to pursue Stormy Daniels case

Former President Trump on Sunday accused President Biden of having ‘stuffed’ the Manhattan District Attorney’s office probing a hush-money payment made to adult film star Stormy Daniels with officials from the Department of Justice, despite it being a city-run office.

Trump’ took to his Truth Social platform to claim Biden “’stuffed’ the D.A.’s Office with Department of Injustice people,” including what he called a “DOJ operative” sent from Washington, D.C. Trump did not specify which individual he was referring to being an operative.

“Biden wants to pretend he has nothing to do with the Manhattan D.A.’s Assault on Democracy when, in fact, he has ‘stuffed’ the D.A.’s Office with Department of Injustice people, including one top DOJ operative from D.C,” Trump wrote.

He also took a shot at District Attorney Alvin Bragg who he claimed “is taking his orders from D.C.”

Bragg, a Democrat, is a New York City elected official who took office late last year. His office is staffed by city officials and is not at the direction of the president, who oversees federal officials.

Trump in his post also turned his attention toward his campaign to reassert his false claim that he beat Democratic presidential challengers “TWICE” despite his 2020 election loss for a second term.

A Manhattan grand jury indictment is expected in the case being investigated by Bragg’s office that involves a hush-money payment to Daniels made during Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign. The case had previously been closed before Bragg decided he would reopen it.

An indictment of Trump has been signaled by prosecutors but the timing of that is unknown. Trump on Saturday claimed that he would be arrested in connection with the case on Tuesday but the DA’s office has not confirmed such details.

A spokesman for Trump on Saturday said the former president had not had any “notification” of such action.

“President Trump is rightfully highlighting his innocence and the weaponization of our injustice system,” the spokesman said.

The Department of Justice is also probing Trump in matters involving the potential mishandling of classified documents and the Jan. 6 Capitol riot as well as efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss.

Attorney General Merrick Garland was appointed by Biden but the White House routinely says it stays out of matters involving federal investigations.

The Hill has reached out to the White House and the District Attorney’s office for comment.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brie...taP4MPF0Q52OmDWlYeTBwutFG2s94M2WcbS5H4jE

I understand your sentiments and what you're saying but I find it much akin to people sending thoughts and prayers after mass shootings. It sounds great but has had zero impact on the number of mass shootings.

And here it is. Republicans trying to frighten the justice system to coerce them from doing their job. Next level $#!+ here.

House GOP demands Manhattan D.A. testify on Trump probe

Three House GOP committee chairs are seeking testimony from Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg as they launch an investigation into his office's probe of former President Trump.

Why it matters: It's an unusually heavy-handed federal intervention into a local government office after Trump claimed he was facing arrest over a hush money payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels.

The House GOP's investigation into the D.A.'s office was ordered by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.).

Driving the news: In a letter to Bragg, House Judiciary Committee Chair Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), House Administration Committee Chair Bryan Steil (R-Wisc.) and Oversight Committee Chair James Comer (R-Ky.) requested testimony from Bragg and documents and communications from his office.

"You are reportedly about to engage in an unprecedented abuse of prosecutorial authority," they wrote. "We expect that you will testify about what plainly appears to be a politically motivated prosecutorial decision."

The letter points to the Trump-era Justice Department's decision not to pursue charges and requests communications between the D.A.'s office and the DOJ and other federal agencies about the Trump probe, as well as documents about the office's use of federal funds.

The committee chairs also want the communications of two prosecutors who resigned in protest of Bragg's decision last year not to pursue a financial fraud case against Trump.

The other side: Democrats hit back at the letter's arguments and accused Republicans of abusing their power to try to counter local law enforcement.

"The [DOJ] did not charge Trump with campaign finance fraud because AG Barr intervened, not because of the evidence, which was very strong (and includes a tape recording)," tweeted Rep. Dan Goldman (D-N.Y.), a member of the Oversight Committee.

Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.), a member of Democratic leadership, tweeted, "Local prosecutors, including DA Bragg, owe you nothing. In fact, it is illegal for you ... to interfere in an ongoing criminal investigation, or a criminal trial (if there is one)."

Bragg's office did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

What's next: Jordan, Steil and Comer set a March 23 deadline for Bragg's office to hand over the requested materials and schedule a transcribed interview.

"Your testimony is necessary to advance our oversight and to inform potential legislative reforms," they wrote.

https://www.axios.com/2023/03/20/ho...8NyFAIebYsp29W6YDE3yKlk0Q6kiG3A0KoDZm0Mg

Donald Trump Demands Alvin Bragg Be Arrested Instead

Donald Trump has said that New York County District Attorney Alvin Bragg should be arrested instead of him. The former president accused the lawyer of breaking the law and persecuting a 2024 presidential candidate for a crime Trump says doesn't exist.

Trump wrote on Monday on his social-media site, Truth Social: "It is the District Attorney of Manhattan who is breaking the law by using the fake and fully discredited testimony (even by the SDNY [Southern District of New York]!) of a convicted liar, felon and jailbird, Michael Cohen, to incredibly persecute, prosecute, and indict a former president, and now leading (by far!) presidential candidate, for a crime that doesn't exist.

"Alvin Bragg should be held accountable for the crime of interference in a presidential election," Trump added.

It's not the first time the embattled former president has attacked Bragg, who won a conviction for tax fraud against the Trump Organization in 2022. In that case, though, Trump wasn't personally charged.

Earlier this month, Trump called Bragg, who is Black, a "racist in reverse." He said the lawyer—a Democrat, former federal prosecutor and deputy New York attorney general—is taking orders from Washington, D.C. to run a "witch hunt" against him. In posts on Truth Social, Trump has repeated false claims that he won the 2020 presidential election.

The 76-year-old former president has said that he will be arrested by a Manhattan grand jury on Tuesday. Trump called on his supporters to protest and "take our nation back," as he wrote on Truth Social on Saturday.

It's unclear why Trump gave Tuesday as the date of his arrest. Two hours after he wrote on Truth Social that he will be arrested on that day, a spokesperson issued a statement that the former president had not written his post with direct knowledge of the timing of any arrest. "President Trump is rightfully highlighting his innocence and the weaponization of our injustice system," the statement read.

Bragg is expected to accuse Trump of concealing a $130,000 hush-money payout made by his former lawyer Michael Cohen to porn star Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 presidential election. Prosecutors for the attorney have reportedly suggested that Trump's indictment might be imminent, though they haven't given an exact date. Trump has denied any wrongdoing.

Trump's indictment would be a historic and unprecedented development. No U.S. former president has ever been charged with a crime.

However, Trump has made clear that he will frame any indictment as a political witch hunt against him. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy appears to follow the former president's lead in this direction. He said on Saturday that he wants House committees to investigate whether federal funds are being used for politically motivated prosecutions.

Other senior Republicans appear to support Trump. Talking about Bragg, former U.S. Vice President Mike Pence told ABC News that the district attorney was carrying out a "politically charged prosecution" against Trump.

"I'm taken aback at the idea of indicting a former president of the United States, at a time when there's a crime wave in New York City," Pence said.

"The fact that the Manhattan DA [district attorney] thinks that indicting President Trump is his top priority, I think is, just tells you everything you need to know about the radical left in this country."

Newsweek has emailed Manhattan District Attorney's Office for comment but didn't receive an immediate response.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-tru...BvBXa_PtD901-oFN2QvL4sNeyrexex3urI8yZGrM