DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Here We Go again... Open Season?

Shockwave effect.... they are tiny rounds.

I am pretty sure that it is impractical to fire off 2 rounds a second (or whatever the rate is) with a .50 caliper gun with any reasonable accuracy.

I agree, people should not have AR style guns.

An individual can't drive around in a tank either. Even though it is a form of transportation.

I mean it is fair you think that. I think it is merely politically motivated and would solve nothing.

No, six people are dead because someone with an ax to grind went to extraordinary measures to commit this act. He/she supposedly bought these guns legally. Even if there was a ban on assault looking weapons I doubt these murders would have been prevented.

Agreed... I'm on the fence on the AR type weapons.... but this person could have still killed multiple people with a hand gun...

The VA Tech shooting was done by someone who legally bought a handgun and used 10 round magazines.

This is, has always been, and always will be a mental health issue.

I’m on the fence as well. I have family members that have these types of guns. They enjoy shooting them at the range. I’ve gone shooting only a couple of times and I do not own any guns. I would like to see stronger background checks. I don’t think some mentally ill people should be allowed to own but I don’t know how that could be carried out. I also doubt it would stand up in court.

I am pretty sure that it is impractical to fire off 2 rounds a second (or whatever the rate is) with a .50 caliper gun with any reasonable accuracy.

If you want to kill one, yeah any round is bad, but if you want to kill many, the AR/AK platform is the choice of mass shooters.

listing will need updated, again

To paraphrase 4 out of 5 mass shooters prefer the AR-15…

The fact that your family members they enjoy shooting AR weapons at a range is the most asinine excuse for allowing their existence. Tell the Rambo wannabes to get their priorities straight.

Once again, a member of the board's left unjustly insults and labels someone for a difference in opinion..

j/c...

Nobody talking about the shooting of two school administrators in Denver?? Hmm...

Pretty sickening how #staywoke policies after the murder of George Floyd led to ignorant disregard for safety. Denver decided they should remove all police from Denver Public Schools.

When you blindly hate your enemy you can dehumanize them and use that for political gain.

Or you could just be stating how every time there's a mass school shooting they always send thoughts and prayers. They also pray it never happens again. Pointing out how utterly futile that is may be something you find offensive, but it's accurate.

Or you could just be stating how every time there's a mass school shooting they always send thoughts and prayers. They also pray it never happens again. Pointing out how utterly futile that is may be something you find offensive, but it's accurate.

Actually, stupid is asking God to leave schools and thinking when his presence is gone something evil won't fill that void? No legislation will keep evil out when God is not there!!!

I could care less if people pray, think well, offer sage to the spirits or do an Irish jig. Armed staff in schools who be more effective than GFSZ signs and pearl clutching. This shooter seems to have chosen a different target but changed course after seeing the security.

Stop leaving children in places that can't protect them.

Broader research provides not much support for Cruz’s claim that armed law enforcement officers on school grounds are the “most effective tool” for keeping kids safe from mass shootings.

A 2021 study conducted by researchers from University at Albany and RAND examined data from U.S. schools between 2014 to 2018 to evaluate the impact of school resource officers. It found that school resource officers “do effectively reduce some forms of violence in schools, but do not prevent school shootings or gun-related incidents.”

In addition, that study found that school resource officers appear to protect students from “a non-trivial number of physical attacks and fights within schools,” which could have long-term academic and psychological benefits for students. But schools with resource officers also report more suspensions, expulsions, police referrals and student arrests — and those harsher disciplinary punishments disproportionately fall on Black students, male students and students with disabilities.

Another 2021 JAMA Network study conducted by researchers at Hamline University and Metropolitan State University in Minnesota examined a total of 133 school shootings and attempted school shootings from 1980 to 2019.

It was limited by the availability of public data and the inability to measure deterred shootings, among other factors, but researchers found that, controlling for other factors such as location, school type and region, the data showed “armed guards were not associated with significant reduction in rates of injuries” during school mass shootings.

Further, when researchers controlled for location and school characteristic factors, “the rate of deaths was 2.83 times greater (emphasis added) in schools with an armed guard present.”

Pete Blair, the executive director of the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University, said armed individuals can play a role in stopping school shootings in progress but cautioned against any claim that it’s “the most effective tool” or that it prevents school shootings.

In Illinois in 2018, for instance, officials credited an officer with avoiding a potential school shooting involving a student at the school. The shooter’s mother said she thought her son was trying to get the police to kill him. Only the shooter was injured.

Blair said the ALERRT Center is part of a group that works with the FBI to release annual active shooter data. The FBI defines an active shooter as “one or more individuals actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill people in a populated area.”

That data shows that from 2000 until 2021, there have been 434 active shooter incidents, Blair said. This includes shooter incidents in schools and elsewhere.

“The most common resolution is for the attacker to flee,” Blair said, which happened in about 25% of all cases.

In about the same number of cases, the shooting stopped when a responding on-duty police officer, armed security or off-duty officer shot the attacker, he said.

Blair said the data isn’t specific enough to break down whether police officers who used force to stop an attack were already stationed there at the time — as a school resource officer likely would be — or were called in specifically to respond to the incident.

Dewey Cornell, a professor of education at the University of Virginia who studies school safety, bullying and student threat assessment, said he has seen research that suggests school resource officers “can be valuable in building relationships with students and working with threat assessment teams, but not as armed guards protecting the campus from a shooter.”

“I know of no scientific evidence that having armed law enforcement on campus by itself keeps kids safe at school,” he said. “We have prevented school shootings by identifying threats and working with troubled students before they make an attack.”
Are armed officers a deterrent?

PolitiFact found no studies or research that conclusively showed that the presence of armed officers deterred people from targeting schools.

“From a theoretical point of view, it makes sense. Trying to prove it empirically can be difficult,” Blair said. “I can’t point to any specific cases and say, here’s this specific case where this person said, they looking at this and they chose not to because there was an armed security guard there.’”

The 2021 JAMA Network study said data suggested “no association between having an armed officer and deterrence of violence” in mass shootings from 1980 to 2019.

“Prior research suggests that many school shooters are actively suicidal, intending to die in the act, so an armed officer may be an incentive rather than a deterrent,” the study said.

Steve Guest, a spokesperson for Cruz, pointed to a 2019 Vox article that referenced 2005 research that suggested increased police presence leads to fewer people committing crimes. The article and research wasn’t looking at school shootings specifically.

The spokesperson also referenced a 2018 report that found for 238 middle and high schools in West Virginia, the presence of resource officers “increases the number of reported incidents related to drug crime as well as the number of out-of-school suspensions for drug crime, but decreases violent crime and disorder when multiple years are considered.” Again, the report wasn’t looking at school shootings specifically. It did say that school resource officers are more likely to work with law enforcement to create a written plan for “how to deal with shootings.”
Our ruling

Cruz said, “We know from past experiences that the most effective tool for keeping kids safe is armed law enforcement on the campus.”

A 2021 JAMA Network study said data found “no association between having an armed officer and deterrence of violence” in mass shootings from 1980 to 2019. A 2021 study by the University at Albany and RAND said school resource officers “do not prevent school shootings or gun-related incidents.”

We rate this claim False.

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/do-armed-school-police-officers-prevent-shootings/

As I said - how sad is it that kids need armed police to protect them in schools? How well did other armed police protect other schools during other mass shootings?

Your response is very much in line with the "THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS MORE GUNS".

If people are willing to go into a school and kill small children they do not even know, with no other motive than to create chaos, there is no law or regulations that will fix that. The problem lies with those people, and identifying them before they get to this point.

How we do that, I have no idea.

This is, has been, and always will be a people problem.

So I can only comment if I have a solution?

That is PART of the problem. If it was the ONLY problem then most other countries in the industrialized world would see the same issues at the same or similar levels. They don't. What else could be a factor?