Imagine being so biased against someone in the FO that you're left criticizing him for not filling a "void" in a backup OL who didn't even play that well. But he's now "projected" starter on a inferior, if not terrible, line in ARZ.
Mac: "Makes no sense for the Browns allow their best back up OG to be poached by the Cardinals and now the Browns are forced to sort through the "leftovers" in an effort to fill the void.
BTW, the Cardinals thank Andrew Berry for allowing them to poach the Browns 'best backup OG' who is projected to become "a starter" for the Cards."
Other way to look at it: what you are saying is Berry did an excellent job of keeping/re-signing two great guards and signing last year/retaining a good center. This means we didn't have to overpay for Froholt. Because of this, AZ is using our leftovers as a starter b/c we have depth and they do not. This gives us the option to save a little bit of money and bring in another option (like Wes) and also keep developing a few of our other younger lineman.
Martin fits in with the Browns as a candidate to be one of the interior depth players on the offensive line. The Browns lost Hjalte Froholdt, who held that role last year, when he signed as a free agent this month with the Arizona Cardinals.
Makes no sense for the Browns allow their best back up OG to be poached by the Cardinals and now the Browns are forced to sort through the "leftovers" in an effort to fill the void.
BTW, the Cardinals thank Andrew Berry for allowing them to poach the Browns 'best backup OG' who is projected to become "a starter" for the Cards.
Let that sink in for a bit...
...Now Berry is searching for someone to fill the void "he created" when he failed to resign HF.
Fact!
Froholdt was offered double of what he made with us to go and play for the Cardinals.
The Cards GM and coaching staff view Froholdt as a potential starter and at the least, quality depth...
The Browns GM viewed Froholdt as an unneeded backup...
How can this be..? Someone is not very good at judging Offensive Line talent..
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the team that isn't very good at judging OL talent is likely the one ranked 31st here: link
We have good starters at all 3 interior OL positions.
Arizona's starter last year at center has retired and only their LT from last year is/was still under contract
One of the bullet points on the "guardrails" sheet was "Don't Pay for Depth." Froholdt would have been depth for us. Arizona needs new starters everywhere-- below average is better than what they had when free agency started.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Me too. He still has some gas left in the tank and would have been a good addition. But either he wanted too much money or simply wasn't a part of the plan.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The Cards GM and coaching staff view Froholdt as a potential starter and at the least, quality depth...
The Browns GM viewed Froholdt as an unneeded backup...
How can this be..? Someone is not very good at judging Offensive Line talent..
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the team that isn't very good at judging OL talent is likely the one ranked 31st here: link
We have good starters at all 3 interior OL positions.
Yes we do..and what happens when one of our 3 interior OL is injured...like last year? Will the Browns be able to call on a backup who has experience running the Browns offensive system?
...Maybe it's just me, it just seems like A GOOD IDEA to have an experienced backup filling in should one of our outstanding lineman be injured...like last season..!
Arizona's starter last year at center has retired and only their LT from last year is/was still under contract
Bull...yes, the Cards had a need for good OLine talent and when the Browns judged Froholdt as nothing more than an UNNEEDED BACKUP..the Cards took advantage of the opportunity to add a potential starter to their roster...but the Cards snatched him up, despite the Browns LOW OPINION of Froholdt.
Some might believe that the Cards were just desperate and had no idea what they were doing by signing HF..but the truth is, the Cards had an advantage over the rest of the teams looking to add OLine talent..the Cards had a scout who was able to watch HF every day of the 2022 season..! The Cards added a new OC who happened to be the Browns QB coach in 2022..Cardinals offensive coordinator Drew Petzing was quarterbacks coach for the Browns last season..and Petzing had the opportunity to watch Froholdt every day in practice as well as each game that HF played in.
Not only did the Cards have a new OC who had the opportunity to watch and scout Froholdt during the 2022 season, the Cards new GM, Monti Ossenfort was the Director of College Scouting for the Patriots in 2019, the year that the Patriots drafted Froholdt in the 4th round (pick#118 of the 2019 draft). It is the Cards judgement that Froholdt is a potential starter.
The only team with more information on Froholdt was the Browns GM Andrew Berry, who treated Froholdt and nothing more than AN UNNEEDED BACKUP...
...HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN..?
One of the bullet points on the "guardrails" sheet was "Don't Pay for Depth." Froholdt would have been depth for us.
Bull...at this very moment the Browns front office is searching for depth at WR, DT, DE, TE, DB and LB and they are willing to OVERPAY for backup talent if necessary. THE GUARDRAILS only apply to Andrew Berry when he wants fall back on that lame excuse for not knowing how to evaluate talent...ESPECIALLY OFFENSIVE LINE TALENT..!
In what way during these off season FA signings have you seen the Browns willingness to "OVERPAY for backup talent"? I mean it's nice to just throw out vomit so someone has to clean it up but I haven't seen anything that even resembles what you posted.
In fact the very example you're trying to use, Froholdt, would indicate just the opposite. He was signed to a 2 year, $4,600,000 contract with the Arizona Cardinals, including a $1,100,000 signing bonus, $2,110,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $2,300,000. Suggesting what you are is actually promoting the very thing you accuse this FO of doing. Overpaying for a backup. Which is what they refused to do with Froholdt.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The Cards GM and coaching staff view Froholdt as a potential starter and at the least, quality depth...
The Browns GM viewed Froholdt as an unneeded backup...
How can this be..? Someone is not very good at judging Offensive Line talent..
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the team that isn't very good at judging OL talent is likely the one ranked 31st here: link
We have good starters at all 3 interior OL positions.
Yes we do..and what happens when one of our 3 interior OL is injured...like last year? Will the Browns be able to call on a backup who has experience running the Browns offensive system?
(1)...Maybe it's just me, it just seems like A GOOD IDEA to have an experienced backup filling in should one of our outstanding lineman be injured...like last season..!
Arizona's starter last year at center has retired and only their LT from last year is/was still under contract
(2)Bull...yes, the Cards had a need for good OLine talent and when the Browns judged Froholdt as nothing more than an UNNEEDED BACKUP..the Cards took advantage of the opportunity to add a potential starter to their roster...but the Cards snatched him up, despite the Browns LOW OPINION of Froholdt.
Some might believe that the Cards were just desperate and had no idea what they were doing by signing HF..but the truth is, the Cards had an advantage over the rest of the teams looking to add OLine talent..the Cards had a scout who was able to watch HF every day of the 2022 season..! The Cards added a new OC who happened to be the Browns QB coach in 2022..Cardinals offensive coordinator Drew Petzing was quarterbacks coach for the Browns last season..and Petzing had the opportunity to watch Froholdt every day in practice as well as each game that HF played in.
Not only did the Cards have a new OC who had the opportunity to watch and scout Froholdt during the 2022 season, the Cards new GM, Monti Ossenfort was the Director of College Scouting for the Patriots in 2019, the year that the Patriots drafted Froholdt in the 4th round (pick#118 of the 2019 draft). It is the Cards judgement that Froholdt is a potential starter.
The only team with more information on Froholdt was the Browns GM Andrew Berry, who treated Froholdt and nothing more than AN UNNEEDED BACKUP...
...HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN..?
One of the bullet points on the "guardrails" sheet was "Don't Pay for Depth." Froholdt would have been depth for us.
(3)Bull...at this very moment the Browns front office is searching for depth at WR, DT, DE, TE, DB and LB and they are willing to OVERPAY for backup talent if necessary. THE GUARDRAILS only apply to Andrew Berry when he wants fall back on that lame excuse for not knowing how to evaluate talent...ESPECIALLY OFFENSIVE LINE TALENT..!
1. We have Harris backing up Pocic at C. We have Deaton and Forbes backing up our Gs. We're bringing in Wes Martin as well. If they all get hurt, we're screwed, but, if you have to play the backups backups, that's generally the case.
2. Froholdt ended up playing 61 offensive snaps for New England and was promptly cut 3 weeks later after seeing no further offensive snaps. He played 0 regular season snaps in NE while Ossenfort was there. Monti had moved on to the Titans after 2019 which Hjalte missed with a shoulder injury.
The Cards not only had a need for "good OLine talent." They had a need for any OL, period. Froholdt didn't make PFFs Interior OL FA rankings.
Are you sure the Cardinals "jumped on" Froholdt? Or did other OL just not want to come play for a defensive HC with a first time OC, an inexperienced OL coach, and an immature QB? There's also the fact that Arizona got Fs in all categories of the recent player report card except for strength and training staffs.
Maybe Froholdt took pity on Petzing. Or maybe he just took advantage of their desperation and willingness to pay him more than any other team
3. "Depth" at other positions sees the field a lot more than OL. If starting OL are healthy, they are staying on the field. You might have formations with extra OL (usually OTs), but you don't swap starters out in sub-packages. Sub-packages make "depth" at other positions effectively starters in their packages. Who do you think they overpaid?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Browns have 13th-best Super Bowl odds after free agency
Cory Kinnan March 29, 2023 2:30 pm ET
The Cleveland Browns took to NFL free agency with efficiency, filling massive voids on their roster. From defensive tackle Dalvin Tomlinson to landing wide receiver Elijah Moore in a trade with the New York Jets, the Browns enter 2023 with a better outlook than they did a year ago. And according to Tipico Sportsbook, they now sit with the 13th-best odds to win the Super Bowl, sitting at +3500.
For any of this to take place, the Browns will need quarterback Deshaun Watson to return to form. However, as the 2023 NFL Draft nears, they certainly did an excellent job adding talent at key positions to their roster.
I’m glad Calais Campbell is out of the AFC N at least
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
1. We have Harris backing up Pocic at C. We have Deaton and Forbes backing up our Gs. We're bringing in Wes Martin as well. If they all get hurt, we're screwed, but, if you have to play the backups backups, that's generally the case.
Bull...we might not want to laugh at the possibility that of all 3 backups being injured...Harris and Deaton are coming off knee injury and Wes Martin, a frequent waiver wire player for 4 teams since 2019.
Quote
2. Froholdt ended up playing 61 offensive snaps for New England and was promptly cut 3 weeks later after seeing no further offensive snaps. He played 0 regular season snaps in NE while Ossenfort was there. Monti had moved on to the Titans after 2019 which Hjalte missed with a shoulder injury.
Rookie Froholdt was placed on IR by the Patriots after he injured a shoulder in the 4th pre-season game of the 2019 season. Monti Ossenfort was the Patriots director of college scouting and scouted Froholdt for the Patriots. Ossenfort who was a QB in college and since he scouted Froholdt for the Patriots, both he and Petzing, the Cardinals new OC as of Feb. 2023 had enough background on HF to know when jump on a potential starter who was being given away by the Browns.
One more fact..HF played 592 snaps for the Browns last season...
1. We have Harris backing up Pocic at C. We have Deaton and Forbes backing up our Gs. We're bringing in Wes Martin as well. If they all get hurt, we're screwed, but, if you have to play the backups backups, that's generally the case.
Bull...we might not want to laugh at the possibility that of all 3 backups being injured...Harris and Deaton are coming off knee injury and Wes Martin, a frequent waiver wire player for 4 teams since 2019.
Quote
2. Froholdt ended up playing 61 offensive snaps for New England and was promptly cut 3 weeks later after seeing no further offensive snaps. He played 0 regular season snaps in NE while Ossenfort was there. Monti had moved on to the Titans after 2019 which Hjalte missed with a shoulder injury.
Rookie Froholdt was placed on IR by the Patriots after he injured a shoulder in the 4th pre-season game of the 2019 season. Monti Ossenfort was the Patriots director of college scouting and scouted Froholdt for the Patriots. Ossenfort who was a QB in college and since he scouted Froholdt for the Patriots, both he and Petzing, the Cardinals new OC as of Feb. 2023 had enough background on HF to know when jump on a potential starter who was being given away by the Browns.
One more fact..HF played 592 snaps for the Browns last season...
Yes, multiple injuries can happen. However, with 53 man rosters you can't carry 5 backups at every position. You can't even carry 2. 22 Ă— 3=66 (11 starters on O and D gives 22, 1 starter and 2 backups gives 3), and that's not even including specialists. You knock Wes Martin as a frequent waiver wire player, but since both were drafted in 2019, Martin has started 11 games to Froholdt's 6. Hjalte's been waived, too, including by the Browns in 2021.
Froholdt has been a bottom of the roster player that good teams look to replace with cheaper alternatives. The Cardinals are a bad team that lacked alternatives. Apparently people in the NFL stay attached to their draft crushes despite their NFL performance just like fans do.
...FH played more than 592 snaps for us last year. Those were just the offensive. He's credited with 71 special teams snaps as well.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I wasn't following along, but, I saw that 3 time @uoted paragraph, and umm, Harris, Forbes, and Deaton, that is 3 players that can't be counted on. Between the 3 of them there is no player imo. Wouldn't be a problem if all 3 were gone off the roster. Who continually picks and sticks with options that are not reliable for anything except being grosly overmatched on a snap by snap basis. That, and going with the DL, between Elliot, and the guy worse than Elliott who got regular season play last year iirc, and then someone like A Schwartz or the linebackers.
The only thing the Browns front office does consistently is REACH, and then they keep and play the REACHS while they bust and get overmatched. It's loopy
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
I actually think a free lancer like Odell could work with a maverick like Rodgers. How healthy he stays and how many games he plays is another matter. Also don't think learning the play book and knowing where to line up will be an issue, that was just a CLE thing.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
It could also have to do with reports saying that Rodgers requested the Jets sign OBJ.
that sounds so much like hearsay I'd ask for a link, but internet search has a bunch of links some by expn. And only one response by Rogers calling it nonsense on march fourteenth.
Kind of reminds me of a movie called "coming to America" wherein the dad announced a wedding that the bride, his daughter had not agreed to.
Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
He was about to turn it around and be a perennial pro-bowler.
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
He was about to turn it around and be a perennial pro-bowler.
Nope...slot WR. Frohodt was our 4th C...Pocic...Harris...Dunn...last guy in line.
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
There's really only one person that's making an issue of dumping him.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
Appreciating good OLine and DLine play is not a strength of the Browns GM.
The personnel Berry drafted and added on the defensive side were a weak link of the Browns defense last season...with the addition of Jim Schwartz as the Browns defensive coordinator I look for improvement. Hopefully Berry will take advantage of DC Jim Schwartz's experience and knowledge to improve his own ability to judge football talent...especially on the interior Dlineman and LBs.
No, "Tackles are not just Tackles"...each one is different..!
I don't understand all this Froholt talk. The kid came here and was our FB only after injuries hit our OL especially Center, that is when he joined the OL. We are talking about our 3rd string Center...smh
Appreciating good OLine and DLine play is not a strength of the Browns GM.
The personnel Berry drafted and added on the defensive side were a weak link of the Browns defense last season...with the addition of Jim Schwartz as the Browns defensive coordinator I look for improvement. Hopefully Berry will take advantage of DC Jim Schwartz's experience and knowledge to improve his own ability to judge football talent...especially on the interior Dlineman and LBs.
No, "Tackles are not just Tackles"...each one is different..!
Is that why we have one of the highest paid OL in the League? 🤔
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