DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus A threat to Democracy?

Fate recently responded to a question and at the end of his post he asked what was a "threat to our Democracy". interestingly I heard a short piece on the radio today that I think distills what a threat to our Democracy actually is - the loss of "Loser's Consent" ... a more challenging question is what leads to that, and if there are other events/issues that are threatening our Democracy.

In an open election system there's going to be a winner and a loser - democracy is based on the loser accepting the loss, moving on. You can google if you wish but the best snapshot I saw was ""The willingness of voters on the losing side to accept electoral outcomes – losers’ consent – is essential to democratic legitimacy. ""

So what we saw after the last election - with a very large % of the voting public believing the election was rigged/stolen/unsafe and NOT accepting the result - is the threat to democracy we face. Seems pretty straightforward right - but what's going to happen in the next election? On the discussion I listened to - Election Officials believed they needed $400M to run safe, accurate, secure, transparent elections .... Congress has given them $70M. In 2020 the elections were expensive because of all the Covid requirements added: Plexiglass, Sanitizer + wipes etc. Apparently most of the additional cost came from charitable donations. Mark Zuckerberg was one of the biggest donations with something like $300M. Many states have since banned individuals and corporations donating funds to help with elections. So how smoothly do we think the elections are going to be run next time? Some state's have switched to hand counting.... probably as a result of someone like Mike Lindell's false claims about the voting machines. In one state with hand counting being introduced - election officials say they will need an additional 1200 people to count the votes. Anyone want to guess if that will be easy or hard to fill? Anyone want to guess if hand counting is more accurate or less accurate than a electronic voting equipment?

I tend to think the public get the politicians and President they deserve. If Trump lies constantly - that's not the threat to democracy, it's the MSM that spins the message and the public that believe it. Hilary's Steele dossier isn't the threat to democracy - it's no different than Trump just making lies up off the top of his head: It's the people and MSM that take as gospel anything She or the Democratic Party or Media spin. Russia trying to influence the elections and get Trump elected isn't the threat to democracy - it's the public getting their "news" from minimal sources and taking as true everything and anything they read.

Certainly there are some influencer's whose impact is much bigger than others - Tucker Carlson has a huge audience and they tend to lap up whatever lies he tells or spins. But is he the problem or is it a dumbed down, apathetic, confirmation biased loving public that are the root problem? Or is it both in equal parts?

I guess some of the other issues that I would consider dangerous - a Supreme Court Justice accepting luxury trips and/or gifts from - anyone let alone anyone tied to or with strong political views. I think having a supreme court justice's wife leading the charge to falsely claim an election needs to be overturned because it was fraudulent is a huge danger.

Anyway - I thought what I heard today about the loss of "Loser's Consent" was interesting and made me think of Fate's question so I thought I'd post this and see what others think. Maybe this is all just noise, there is not threat to Democracy? Maybe this is the same as always just covered at a granular level because we have 24 hour media that needs something to keep viewers tuned in?

We have never been a "democracy" and the media died many years ago.

There is nothing to talk about concerning democracy, and nothing worth talking about concerning the media...and I don't say that as smack talk.

There has never been majority rule and a neutral media has been gone since maybe the early 70's? Maybe earlier, but I wasn't adult enough to pay attention or care. At least I didn't start to see the worm start to turn until the early 80's. At an age where I figured it started to turn before that but I didn't notice or care.

The United States is a Democratic Republic and not a Democracy. The problem is the Democrats hate both a Republic and a Democracy. They like to use Democracy as a buzz word but they are Socialist/Communists plan and simple. The Europeans in the World Economic Forum that the left panders to says "You will own nothing and like it! Until it happens and then you will own nothing and hate it but can't do anything about it. Keep voting for the left though and watch your right go away.

I never recall anything on this level when it comes to contested elections and the refusal to admit defeat. It's certainly happened in the past but on the scale it's being done now there is nothing to compare it to. Casting shadows labeling people as cheaters goes a long way in the divide we are witnessing. Heck, in Arizona Kari Lake was still fighting her 2022 election through court after court until February when yet another court dismissed her case. I have no idea if further appeals are pending. In a rural Arizona county a court had to force them to certify the 2022 election results.

We have seen the consequences of what this has caused and I highly doubt we've seen the last of it.

You and others have bought into every narrative you have been spoon fed. It wasn't the democrats trying to stop the certification of the 2020 election. It wasn't over 900 of them convicted of criminal acts in that attempt either. It's sad that some of you actually believe the things you are posting.

So it's gone from, "they gonna take mah guns!" to "They gonna take mah house!" ?

Amazing.

Nobody said anything about that.

Just shut up.

So whether you call it "Democracy" or "Democratic Process" - splitting hairs, deflecting and missing the point. Willfully. Just my opinion.

"You will own nothing and like it!"

That was Biden's third campaign promise right?

I'll be absolutely honest and say I have no earthly idea of where such a misplaced comment and thought could even come from. I espouse much more to the theory that most Democrat politicians are just like most Republican politicians and will do what's in their own self interest more so than what would be in the interest of the country or state. Which is nothing at all like "You will own nothing" and more like "You can have whatever you want - just give me some too".

The media is terrible. It's so hard to find an objective article on anything and the media does its best to rile folks up so they get attention. It seems to me that when presenting the news to the public, a media outlet should be neutral, unbiased, and factual. Opinion pieces should be labeled as such.

I agree w/you and Day about not being a democracy and us being a Democratic Republic. I also think that there are many elected politicians that have strong ties to Socialism. Not sure I buy the Communism idea.

Most elections result in bitter losers. To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen as much hate, defiance, and spite as after Trump won in 2016. Hell, they are still raging about it. Frankly, I despise both sides. Neither party represents the hard-working middle class. We pay the wealthy and those w/their hands out. Both of those groups operate w/a sense of entitlement and then complain about how bad things are and how they deserve more. Dumbasses like you, me, and other hard-working folks who make up the majority pay for the individual rights of others who don't do a thing to support the greater good of the country and their fellow citizens.

No! A direct quite from DnD's post....


It's not my fault you can't frickin' read. But stop acting like you have the power to make anyone shut up. You don't but it seems to be a more popular theme around here now. Maybe we should call you the "Silence Those We Disagree With Brigade".

While I understand your sentiment and what you're saying, it's not as simplistic as you make it out to be. Sure there are some with their hands out but looking at it big picture, that doesn't quite show an accurate portrait here. And yes, I'm far more willing to help people that are trying than those who are not. But what's at the root in terms of most of the problem?

Federal Social Safety Net Programs: Millions of Full-Time Workers Rely on Federal Health Care and Food Assistance Programs

Millions of American adults who earn low wages rely on federal programs to meet basic needs, such as Medicaid for health care and the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program for food.

To learn more about the people who use these programs, we analyzed employment data from 11 states and Census data.

We found:

About 70% worked full time

Most worked for private sector employers in places like restaurants, department stores, and grocery stores

Others worked for state governments, public universities, or nonprofit organizations

Some employers in selected states had thousands of beneficiaries in their workforces

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-45

What does it say when we live in a country where even when people are working full time and are still considered so poor they must rely on government assistance?

For single mothers the obstacles seem enormous.

How much does child care cost? Parents reveal what they paid in 2022

https://www.today.com/parents/parents/average-cost-child-care-rcna55137

For many the price of a child care for two or more children creates a situation where they pay more for that child care than they pay in rent.

Yes there's certainly a problem but in most cases it's far more complicated than people just having their hands out.

Social welfare programs and need and those that abuse the system - most definitely not a threat to the Democracy Process.

I think the American culture has changed from people providing true and accurate answers to questions and topics based on their belief, to something where we now provide an answer based on political belief and/or sentiment.

For example, the election being stolen is a bogus political statement. But republicans will respond in a positive manner, because of a political sentiment.

I think it is an example of why Trump won in 2016. People would not acknowledge that they were going to vote for Trump, because they did not want any sort of judgement by the poll person asking the question.

When truth isn't truth as Rudy calls it. or those alternative facts, per Kelly Ann.

Back in the before times of early 2016 if you indicated support for Trump or just pointed out you disliked Hillary there was a lot if vitriol spewed at you. I remember 2 separate people on separate days tell me that if Trumpmwas elected the very first thing he would do is make it legal to rape women. Seriously, to rape women.

I was called a lot of names just for not committing to voting for Hillary. It was ugly. This didn't start in 2020, it did start in 2016...

People are always looking for bigger and better. Unfortunately we keep getting bigger nastiness and I doubt it will go away any time soon, the media doesn't make money off nothing being dramatic.

That is a quote from the Leader of the world economic forum, Klaus Schwab that many Democrats pander to including Barack Obama and Joe Biden. They have web sites educate yourselves.

It's what you posted it. You didn't attribute the quote to anyone else, give a source or anything that would give anyone else credit for the statement you posted. Are you now saying you don't believe or support that statement? If not why didn't you say so?

This sounds familiar. Pondering, pondering.

j/c:

I think that providing incentives for people not work is a threat to this country. There has never been a time in my lifetime where there are more unfilled jobs. I actually have a hard time getting people to show up for interviews. They apply through Indeed, Zip Recruiter, CareerBuilder, etc........contact me to schedule an interview and then never show up w/out even a text message. Help Wanted signs are everywhere. Yet, we have people w/signs asking for money in the immediate vicinity of those businesses.

I think it's wrong for people to not be productive. A lot of folks would love not to work, but they understand that being self-sufficient and productive is part of being a responsible member of our society. I oppose all these programs that are designed to incentivise people not to work. It's not healthy for our country. It's unfair to those who do their share. I understand helping out those who have lost their jobs due to no fault of their own. However, this help should have a time constraint. I truly believe that this single issue has created a huge divide in our country. I feel that was the main reason why so many folks sided w/Trump in 2016. The narrative is that those people are all racists, Nazis, Alt-Right, etc is foolhardy. Of course, his voters had those people in them, but all large groups have people from different walks of life. I think most of Trump's supporters were hard-working people that got tired of paying everyone else's way. He lost a lot of those people during his term because he seemingly catered to the extremists, which was a terrible move on his part. But, I can almost guarantee that a large portion of productive, honest, hard-working Americans are still in search of a candidate that gives them a voice.

GOP fascist in Tennessee and Wisconsin going F around and find out. Tennessee will burn this weekend if those dems get expelled. Mark my words. This summer is shaping up to be another BLM, Women's Choice, LGBTQ and Trans Teen protests aren't going to hold a candle to the protests the left holds this summer.

Currently, the greatest threat to our democracy is MAGA terrorists.

j/c:

Read the above two posts consecutively and think about it for a moment. smh

we have never been a democracy.

is this what you think should happen?

So now you admit they weren't peaceful protests?

Mostly.

Thank you for the reminder.

They were mostly peaceful protests....

Wow, you are just like the leader in the Tennessee house yesterday... Blind to truth

There is only one media source being sued for knowingly lying to their viewers, and rallying the battle cry for the trump brigade to attack in a violent fury on Jan 6th.

dEr SayiN dA qUiEt tHiNgZ oUt lOwD!

No, no it won't. Why you would even suggest such a thing is beyond me.

You just keep pondering.

Because if enough people suggest it, repeat it, circulate it... it may actually happen. It's a form of violence in and of itself. On one side, it's usually overlooked in the name of "righteousness".

Living here in Tennessee I have heard for no calls for any such actions. I have never overlooked such things no matter who commits such actions. Criminal activity is exactly that no matter who commits it. I don't think you've actually been paying attention. Each side excuses their actions while pointing fingers at the other. This isn't a "one side" issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...eme-court-harlan-crow-hitler-memorabilia

Nothing to see here.

Agree, things sure have changed in my lifetime, 1948 birth- I remember career politicians fighting like hell on floor of Congress- then going to lunch with each other. No respect as fellow Americans, fellow citizens- you are either one side or the other AND never shall the two meet as fellow brothers or sisters. JMHO- disgusting. Lots of sons and daughters of hippie LOVE generation- what happened to mutual love.

Maybe,, just maybe Thomas didn't break the rules..I'm not at all sure one way or the other.

But I do wonder how a Trip valued at $500,000 will sit with the IRS?

From what I've read he didn't break any rules... there was a recent rule established this past March which requires more disclosure.... but don't think AOC will be able to impeach him on this...

in terms of the IRS... not sure how the trips would be classified... I do know that typically isn't it the donor that has to pay the taxes on a gift?

As a doctor, a pharmaceutical rep isn't even allowed to give me a pen that has their company logo on it because if might inappropriately influence my prescribing habits. Yet a half million dollar vacation is absolutely benign? Hmm

But they can pay out billions to doctors for consulting, promotional talks and meals?

And they can give you suit boxes full of free sample drugs for friends, family and patients?

And that's the reasoning they use for a logoed pen?? 🤣

Good stuff!