DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Biden administration says schools may bar trans athletes from competitive teams

Biden administration says schools may bar trans athletes from competitive teams
http://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/04/06/trans-athletes-school-sports-title-ix

The title of your thread doesn't jive with the content.

And interesting comment: "Nothing could be more ironic than creating a policy designed to level the playing field between women and men's sports and then using it to force women's sports to let men play."

what?

Seriously... glad world track association banned it.... I have no problem with adults who want to transition... have a hard time, as a former athlete, understanding the fairness of letting a biological male compete against biologic females... no matter how long they've been on hormones...

I agree. Might as well allow women to take steroids. We can be like East Germany have a bunch of freakoid women walking around.

Anybody who thinks this is a good thing are idiots. For that matter, anybody who thinks this whole sex change business is Ok are idiots.

He's right, your title doesn't jive with the content... That aside, I wonder how it could be fair for a biological female to compete with a biological male in sports generally? I have a trans friend. Male to female post op... if you looked at her you would not know.... I swear, I knew her for 2 years prior to finding out.. The thought never entered my mind.

Since that time, I learned a lot. Beyond the obvious "big chop" as she calls it, she takes hormones. What kind of hormones, I don't know.. Frankly don't need to know but what I do know is these hormones sure do turn her into a woman.

Still, I don't see how it would be fair to have her compete with biological females in sports...

Your title reads "Biden administration says schools may bar trans athletes from competitive teams"

The article reads

The Biden Education Department just dropped new Title IX rules that bar schools that receive federal funding from enforcing policies that ban biological males from playing girl's sports.

I read the title of the thread and I thought good for Biden. He's finally doing something right. And then......

J/C

I don’t think trans males or females should be allowed to play in gender specific contact sports in public schools.

$0.02

Lol. Nice protest.

When I played little league baseball we had a girl play on our team. She was good, better than most of the team really. Played second base mostly. I don't know how long she played baseball on the boys teams though, I imagine biology caught up eventually

"Transgender Americans shape our Nation's soul..." ~~~President Biden

No. You all just suck at reading.




The article is the first one which the title is copied and pasted.

I quoted Riley Grimes when I started a post about Transgendered Athletes not all that long ago. She is far from a villain. Read about her and judge for yourself.

Save Women’s Sports

Riley Gaines
University of Kentucky

Riley Gaines remembers the moment at the 2022 NCAA Swim Championships when she watched Lia Thomas race for the first time. It was the 500-yard freestyle.

“I remember watching it, and [Lia] destroyed everyone,” Gaines said. “I was standing right next to the girl who placed 17th, which means she didn’t make it to the final or get to be All-American, when Lia touched the wall. She just looked at me and had tears in her eyes and she told me, ‘I just got beat by someone who probably didn’t have to try this morning.’”

Thomas, who swam for three years on the University of Pennsylvania Men’s Swim Team as Will Thomas before switching to the Women’s Team as Lia last fall, has made waves in and out of the pool for breaking records and for the devastation to female athletes left in Thomas’s wake.

Gaines, who swims for the University of Kentucky, describes that day as heartbreaking and somber. She later would race Lia in the 200-yard freestyle, tying for 5th place.

Fairness in Women’s Sports
Gaines’ love of swimming started, like most young women at this level of their careers, when she was just a toddler. But by age 12, she had started to “separate from the kids in her age group” in races.

“I would have parents come up to me to congratulate me because I was breaking pool times,” she said. “It progressed from there. In high school, swimming became my passion.”

Fast forward four years, and Gaines accepted a spot on the Kentucky Women’s Swim Team. She chose UKY for the swim culture, positive coaches, and amazing team. It didn’t hurt that it was only three hours away from home.

In November 2021, Gaines was reading an article on Swim Swam that mentioned a female swimmer who went 1:41 in the 200y freestyle. That time was so fast, it was considered a national time. The name of the swimmer: Lia Thomas. It was a name that Gaines didn’t recognize.

“Being a top swimmer on the collegiate league, you recognize the tip-top and know who they are. I clicked on the article and was like, Lia Thomas — I have never heard of her. The article at the time didn’t mention being a transgender.”

After more digging, Gaines and her coach realized the truth. “At this point I was like, ‘What, there’s no way this can be a nation-leading time if she’s not a biological female.’ I was worried about if she would be allowed to swim at the NCAA’s.”

The NCAA avoided making a firm decision about Thomas’s eligibility until three weeks before the start of the Championships. It was an agonizing wait-and-see game for Gaines and her teammates. And then, the NCAA released a statement: Thomas would be allowed to compete.

The decision didn’t sit well with Gaines. She feels it was made out of a fear of backlash.

“I don’t see how people don’t see the blatant issue with it,” she said. “It has nothing to do with being transphobic. There’s no doubt [that Lia has] worked hard and sacrificed. You can’t do this sport and not do those things. But it’s just amazing to me that it got to this point. People are not fully grasping the severity of it.”

Gaines believes that allowing male-bodied athletes to participate in women’s competitions will destroy the integrity of women’s sports and leave women vulnerable.

“Seeing a biological male win a national title in a female sport, that’s an opportunity that so many people could take advantage of unless action is taken, and things can be implemented to prevent that from happening.”

Speaking Up and Speaking Out
Unlike many of the female swimmers in the SEC and Ivy League, Gaines has the full support of her school to speak out.

“I’m really grateful for the support from the University and [for] allowing me to speak out,” she said. “My team and my coaches have both been so supportive. Not once have they told me that I couldn’t speak.”

Gaines says she has no personal animosity toward Lia or any transgender individual. Her objection is to the actions of the athletic governing bodies.

“You need to protect the integrity of sports, whether it be male or female. Females have worked way too hard for the past 50 years. What occurred the past month is a total step in the wrong direction.”

https://www.iwf.org/save-womens-sports-riley-gaines/

There is no way that men who claim to be a woman or have transitioned into being a woman belong in women's sports. If it's your decision to make such a transition that doesn't give you the right to use it to gain an unfair advantage in competition. I consider such a thing more being anti woman than pro trans.

Mark the day, we agree.

I think if it got right down to it we agree on far more than we disagree about. The issue seems to be only the most controversial issues come up on this board and in such cases that's where I believe we mostly disagree.

Even when it comes to gun laws. I think if we covered the entire spectrum of the issue we would probably agree on over 90% of it.

What is it you think that you sense here?

A disturbance in The Force... you and Frank agreeing on things.

Washington Post is a pay/register site, most of us can't read that article. So I apologize if I missed that portion, all I can see on that site IS the headline, not the article.

j/c

I have no idea what the overall ramifications of this ruling will mean moving forward. But at this time it appears the SCOTUS has no interest in intervening or becoming involved in such matters....

Supreme Court says 12-year-old trans girl in West Virginia can continue on track team

The justices refused to disturb an appeals court order that made it possible for the girl to continue playing on her school’s track and cross-country teams.

https://whyy.org/articles/supreme-court-trans-girl-west-virginia-school-sports/

It does involve a 12 year old who seems to not be a very good athlete and doesn't finish well in the events she competes in. So it's possible that may be a factor in this decision.

not that article above


Biden administration says schools may bar trans athletes from competitive teams
Proposed regulation would disallow blanket bans on trans athletes on the books in 20 states

By Laura Meckler
Updated April 6, 2023 at 7:15 p.m. EDT|Published April 6, 2023 at 4:08 p.m. EDT

The Biden administration on Thursday proposed new regulations that would allow schools to bar transgender athletes from participating in competitive high school and college sports, but disallow blanket bans on the athletes that have been approved across the country.

The rules would narrow when discrimination of trans athletes would be permitted. But they also would offer guidelines for when schools could bar their participation.

Under the proposal, schools would need to consider a range of factors before imposing a ban on trans athletes and would need to justify it based on educational grounds, such as the need for fairness. So, for instance, a school district could justify a ban on transgender athletes on their competitive high school track and field team, whereas a district would have a harder time making that case for an intramural middle school kickball squad.

Read details of the administration's proposed regulation

The long-awaited proposal, which is subject to public comment, puts forth a framework for how schools can comply with Title IX, the 50-year-old federal law that bars schools from discriminating on the basis of sex. It would apply to all public K-12 schools, as well as colleges and universities that receive federal funding.


Reaction was mixed. Transgender rights activists said the proposal provided a welcome set of protections for trans students but also worried the regulations could offer a road map for those who want to discriminate.

“The proposed rule helps clarify that these blanket bans on transgender athletes are in violation of Title IX and is a really positive development,” said Scott Skinner-Thompson, a supporter of transgender rights and associate professor at the University of Colorado Law School. But he said the provisions allowing for discrimination were “deeply troubling.”

“When it comes to the hard cases, this is saying that trans kids can be discriminated against,” he said.

Conservatives were opposed, objecting to a proposal that would, in effect, wipe out blanket bans on transgender athletes passed in recent months by 20 states.


“Under this rule, equal rights for female athletes are history,” said Penny Nance, chief executive and president of Concerned Women for America, a conservative advocacy group. “Those 50 years of women’s achievements can now go to men pretending to be women.”

Separately Thursday, the Supreme Court addressed the issue of trans athletes for the first time, refusing to immediately reinstate a West Virginia law barring transgender athletes from playing on female sports teams from middle school through college. The law defines eligibility for certain sex-specific teams to “be based solely on the individual’s reproductive biology and genetics at birth.”

The court’s action was not a decision on the merits of the issue, but it means a transgender girl may remain on a middle school track team while battles over the law’s legality continue.

The proposed Biden administration rules would require that schools wishing to limit trans athletes’ participation show that the decision relates to an important educational objective and minimizes harm to others. They also must consider the sport involved, the age of the students and the level of competitiveness. The proposal noted that some teams require advanced skills and others allow anyone to participate.

“The proposed rule … recognizes that in some instances, particularly in competitive high school and college athletic environments, some schools may adopt policies that limit transgender students’ participation,” the Education Department said in a fact sheet. It said the proposal would give schools “the flexibility to develop their own participation policies.”

The prohibition against blanket or categorical bans set up a clash with Republican-led states that have enacted sweeping prohibitions. Supporters of these measures say that allowing transgender girls and women to compete puts cisgender girls and women at a competitive disadvantage because their sex is male so therefore their bodies tend to be stronger and faster.


Just this week, legislators in Kansas overrode Democratic Gov. Laura Kelly’s veto to impose a ban on transgender athletes in kindergarten through college. Kansas was the 20th state to impose such a ban, according to tracking by the Movement Advancement Project, a think tank that supports transgender rights.

Rep. Susan Humphries, a Republican state legislator who helped pass the blanket ban in Kansas, said the Biden administration’s proposed regulations are based on what she sees as flawed logic — that Title IX’s prohibition on sex discrimination includes discrimination based on gender identity.

She said a blanket ban like the one passed in Kansas is far more effective in ensuring that women have a level playing field than the case-by-case approach envisioned by the Biden administration.

“It’s proactive,” she said of the state’s ban. “It doesn’t take many. It takes one swimmer or whoever to unseat state titles that have existed for a long time. … We want to protect our women here in Kansas.”


The Education Department said in a regulation proposed last summer that discrimination on the basis of gender identity is also barred under Title IX. That regulation is expected to be finalized next month.

Still, some trans rights advocates voiced caution over elements of the proposed rule released Thursday.

“We are concerned about whether the proposed rule can properly eliminate the discrimination that transgender students experience due to the pervasive bias and ignorance about who they are,” said Sasha Buchert, director of Lambda Legal’s Nonbinary and Transgender Rights Project.

Still, she added: “This proposed rule includes critical recognition of the importance of participating in sports for transgender youth and shows why 100 percent of the state bans are invalid.”

Kentucky’s lone transgender athlete can’t play on the team she helped start

The issue has become politically hot across the country, driven by Republicans who oppose transgender rights, even though a small share of people identify as transgender and only a limited number of actual cases have raised concerns. Numerous court challenges already are pending, filed by people on both sides of the debate.


Polling last year from the Pew Research Center and Gallup found 0.6 percent of American adults identified as transgender, though among young adults, the share was about 2 percent.

The Biden administration has moved deliberately on this issue. Last summer, the Education Department issued regulations making clear that under Title IX, schools also may not discriminate against students on the basis of gender identity. But the administration put off the question of sports participation amid concerns about the politics of the issue ahead of the 2022 midterm elections.

Polling shows a majority of Americans oppose allowing transgender women to compete in sports. A Washington Post-University of Maryland poll last year found 55 percent of Americans opposed allowing trans women and girls to compete with cisgender women and girls in high school sports, and 58 percent opposed it in college and professional sports. About 3 in 10 said they should be allowed to compete at each of these levels, while another 15 percent had no opinion.


Similarly, in May, Pew found 58 percent of adults saying they favor laws that require trans athletes to compete on teams that match the sex they were assigned at birth.

Most Americans oppose trans athletes in female sports, poll finds

Other organizations have also struggled with whether and how transgender women can participate in competitive sports. Under an NCAA policy, participation in each college sport is determined by each sport’s governing body, subject to ongoing oversight.

States including Indiana, Idaho, Missouri, Nebraska, North Dakota, Kentucky and Wisconsin have had rules on the books that require trans athletes to undergo hormone treatment for a specified period — usually a year — to compete. Many of those policies have been since been superseded by state laws that ban trans athletes altogether, but others remain in effect.

Scott Clement, Robert Barnes and Rick Maese contributed to this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/04/06/trans-athletes-school-sports-title-ix

It just means they are intervening in a circuits process until the circuit finishes. This is procedural.

The appeals court has already ruled. As per usual when you appeal decisions already reached at the lower court level the SCOTUS has the right to review or overturn decisions reached by a lower court.

In this instance they decided not to review or rule on the already decided case.

It seems the case is still ongoing and SCOTUS is not going to rule on a preliminary ruling. Again this is procedural. Once the circuit is done wroth a final rule this could change the SCOTUS decision. They still need a final ruling and then the losing side will as for en banc, which is rare to get.

I will say that this is a specific case and that certainly would not preclude the SCOTUS ruling on other cases with different parameters on the same issue.

It would not. It sounds like WV wants SCOTUS involved in the middle of the process as they don't like how the process is going. That's not unusual, nor is SCOTUS declining to get in at this point, but ya gotta try I suppose.

It would seem as though the information you provided on Biden's decision indicates he is not as liberal and radical about trans rights as has been indicated by many in the past. It would seem as though he's much more moderate on some issues than the right has been portraying. I'm not sure if that was the intention as to why you posted it but it certainly seems as though that's the case and I would agree with that.

The attack on Riley Gaines is a huge embarrassment for our nation. Men, who identify as women, attack a naturally born woman because she is speaking up for Women's Rights. Yet, the Left turns a blind eye to it. Here is an article about. Following the link will lead you to multiple videos and pictures.


EXCLUSIVE: Riley Gaines shows DailyMail.com's Maureen Callahan how she was PUNCHED twice by a transgender woman - and blasts the White House for saying the trans community is 'under attack'... when it's women who are being assaulted

The college swimming champion said she was hit in the shoulder and the face

She revealed she was locked in a room for 3 hours to shelter from a baying mob

Gaines slammed Joe Biden for 'betraying' women by failing to protect them

By MAUREEN CALLAHAN and MILES DILWORTH, SENIOR REPORTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 15:19 EDT, 7 April 2023 | UPDATED: 15:22 EDT, 7 April 2023


College swimming champion Riley Gaines has told how she was punched twice by a trans activist in a terrifying attack at a university campus - and laid the blame squarely on the White House for 'betraying' women.

In an exclusive interview with DailyMail.com's Maureen Callahan, Gaines, 22, told how her assailant - who she says was a transgender woman - hit her first in the shoulder and then in the face before an undercover cop came to her rescue.

The swimmer said she was then barricaded in a room at San Francisco State University for three hours to protect herself from the 'vengeful' mob who were demanding they be let in to 'fight' her.

Gaines also turned her ire on the Biden administration for suggesting the trans community is under threat, when it is women who are being assaulted.

In a wide-ranging interview, Gaines hit out at proposals by the President that would mean misgendering someone could be considered sexual harassment - and accused the White House of fostering a narrative that has encouraged violence and threats towards women.

College swimming champion Riley Gaines has filmed herself being reportedly ambushed by screaming trans activists who physically attacked her following a speech about saving women's sports
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College swimming champion Riley Gaines has filmed herself being reportedly ambushed by screaming trans activists who physically attacked her following a speech about saving women's sports
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College swimming champion Riley Gaines has filmed herself being reportedly ambushed by screaming trans activists who physically attacked her following a speech about saving women's sports

A terrified Gaines, 22, was forced to barricade herself inside a room at the San Francisco State University campus last night after a group of activists ambushed her
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A terrified Gaines, 22, was forced to barricade herself inside a room at the San Francisco State University campus last night after a group of activists ambushed her
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A terrified Gaines, 22, was forced to barricade herself inside a room at the San Francisco State University campus last night after a group of activists ambushed her

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'I think this narrative was built because we have people in administrative roles, whether that be at universities or college campuses, or even the Biden administration...saying that the trans community is under threat,' she said.

'So I think they like to think they're constantly being persecuted...But in my experience...I have always been on the receiving end of that hate.'

The swimmer was speaking as she returned to her home in Nashville after giving a talk on women's rights at the university Thursday night.

But the event was hijacked by around 100 protesters who swarmed the campus.

Gaines said the talk itself, which started at around 7.30pm, was 'really awesome', with 75 attendees respectfully sharing differing views on transgender athletes in sport.

But as she was leaving the room where the talk was being held she was ambushed by angry trans activists, who rushed into the venue from the hallway outside.

'All of a sudden ambushers swarm in, tons of them,' she said. 'They immediately rush to the front of the room where I am, so I'm kind of cornered at a podium at this point.

'They're screaming in my face. This is the point where I was struck twice…I believe, aiming for my shoulder both times, but hit me the first time on the shoulder, and then the second time it grazed my face.'

Gaines said she thought she was hit with a closed fist by the transgender woman, before demonstrating the upward punching motion that was used.

'I'm not entirely sure if it [her first] was closed or open, but it was 100 per cent intentional,' she added.





The swimmer said she was then whisked away by an undercover cop, but was met by 'an even bigger crowd' of protesters coming from both directions.

'Because there was no clear exit out of this hallway we were kind of forced into a side room…where we essentially had to lock ourselves in for three hours,' she said.

Gaines said the protesters remained outside the room for the duration, 'screaming and yelling vulgar and violent things'.

'They were screaming there will be vengeance, and that this is a fight and that I'm using my white privilege. There were threats, intimidation. They kept saying: 'Open the door. Let us at Riley. We want to fight her.'

'A lot of these are empty threats in a way, but at the same time you do have to kind of fear for your safety in a situation like that.'

She said the protesters were 'clearly unhinged' and 'vengeful'. 'It was violent and it was not progressive,' she added.

Gaines slammed the Biden administration for 'betraying' women by failing to protect them
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Gaines slammed the Biden administration for 'betraying' women by failing to protect them

Former President Donald Trump with swimmer Riley Gaines speaks at the CPAC Convention, Hilton Anatole, Dallas, Texas. August 06 2022
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Former President Donald Trump with swimmer Riley Gaines speaks at the CPAC Convention, Hilton Anatole, Dallas, Texas. August 06 2022

Riley Gaines on Tucker Carlson - Re: Former University of Kentucky swimmer shares 'extreme discomfort' at having to change alongside Lia Thomas because of her 'different parts' and blasts NCAA bosses for letting the trans athlete compete
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Riley Gaines on Tucker Carlson - Re: Former University of Kentucky swimmer shares 'extreme discomfort' at having to change alongside Lia Thomas because of her 'different parts' and blasts NCAA bosses for letting the trans athlete compete

Trans swimmer Lia Thomas 'dropped her pants' and exposed her 'male genitalia' in a women's locker room after a meet claimed University of Kentucky athlete Riley Gaines
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Trans swimmer Lia Thomas 'dropped her pants' and exposed her 'male genitalia' in a women's locker room after a meet claimed University of Kentucky athlete Riley Gaines

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Gaines defended those who had come to protest peacefully and said she had no problem with people 'yelling 'trans women are women', but said inciting violence was never acceptable.

She said she has regularly received violent threats prior to giving talks at universities and blamed the Biden administration for its stance on transgender issues.

She pointed to comments made by White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre suggesting that the trans community in America was 'under attack' in the wake of a Nashville school shooting by a transgender former student.

Gaines said: 'In my experience I have never once said anything remotely threatening, remotely hateful towards the trans identifying individual or anyone in the LGBT community.

'I have always been on the receiving end of that hate, and I find it a bit ironic, because it comes from the party who claims to be tolerant and accepting and loving and welcoming.'

She also referred to her experience of competing against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas and seeing her male genatalia in the changing room in the context of changes to Title IX being pursued by the White House, which would mean misgendering someone - refusing to use a person's preferred pronouns - could be considered sexual harassment.

'It just felt like maybe two years ago, this person would have been arrested for indecent exposure, for voyeurism, for sexual harassment…But now we are the ones who are committing sexual harassment.'

Gaines recounted her experience competing against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas and seeing her male genatalia in the changing rooms
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Gaines recounted her experience competing against transgender swimmer Lia Thomas and seeing her male genatalia in the changing rooms

Speaking about her encounter with Thomas in the female changing rooms, she said: 'Of course you're awkward. It's embarrassing. It's uncomfortable. It felt like belittlement, but more than anything it was betrayal.

Former University of Kentucky swimmer Riley Gaines
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Former University of Kentucky swimmer Riley Gaines

'The people who were supposed to be protecting us were not protecting us. It's heartbreaking.

'We should not lose the ability to consent in areas of undressing where we will be exposed to and exposing ourselves to the opposite sex.'

House Speaker Kevin McCarthy had earlier Friday condemned the incident as 'an appalling attack on free speech on a college campus'.

He tweeted: 'House Republicans stand with Riley Gaines and her brave and tireless efforts to protect women's sports.'

The San Francisco Police Department said it was investigating the incident but there were 'no arrests related to the event'.

A spokesman added: 'The disruption occurred after the conclusion of the event which made it necessary for UPD officers to move the event speaker from the room to a different, safe location.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-transgender-woman-blames-Joe-Biden.html

I think he tried his best to pass something more sensible because it is such a polarizing topic.

It is a sad incident to have occurred. This never should have happened. But your editorial comment in regards to it being "a huge embarrassment for our nation" is overblown to state it mildly. With everything going on in our nation on a daily basis making such an outlandish claim is silly.

I would tend to agree with that. Those on the far left will say he went too far. Those on the far right will say he didn't go far enough. Usually Ive found when the extremes on both sides don't like something a politician has done they are moving things in the right direction.

It is one of many embarrassments this country has, as the divide widens, and people just get in line while the puppet masters keep pulling the strings until the day they can seize all control.

I think that it is pretty apparent that a transitioned (general a male to women) person should not be competing in competitive (normally womens) sports at the highest level.

And it is a matter of fairness and equality. The women have every right to be upset that they are unable to win against a transitioned male. That physical genetic difference cannot be overcome in a competitive sports environment. I understand why the women are not happy with some of the things that have gone on.

Rare day that we are all in agreement.

I disagree with that statement.