DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Most Underrated and Overrated Browns Players

Ok. For the most part, we have a good sense of the roster heading into training camp. Yes, there might be a signing(s) or a trade, but who on this roster gets too much love or not enough love? Try to keep it to one or two players in each category please.

I'm not even sure myself as I thought of this a few minutes ago, but I'll add no more than four players (two on each side). It certainly can include guys we just signed for drafted.

Overrated: Easy.

Jok: He's a great athlete, but it's not transitioning to the field. He takes terrible angels to the ball because he can't shield and shed. Misses tackles due to lack of strength. I'm hoping he can turn it around and I believe he has the potential to, but he gets way too much love. He played bad last year, and yes, I know all about how bad the DTs are.

Delpit: Another one who gets a lot of love. Terrible recognition on routes. Very slow to react to plays. Often out of position. Doesn't move well laterally. Hopefully, he will play more SS and not play as much in Cover 2 or 2-Deep. The only thing is that the league has been running a ton of both of those to combat what offenses are doing.

Underrated: This one is hard.

Teller. He is one of the top guards in the entire league. He was hurt during the year and his play declined a bit. But, he is top 3-5 guard in the league. It can be argued that he is the face of the team when we play bully ball. Dude is a pancake specialist who plays w/good technique and is very good at the second level. Yet, people are always talking about moving on from him. Crazy.

Myles: This one might sound odd, but I do not think he is adequately appreciated, at least on this board. I hear NFL analysts always bringing his name up when evaluating other Edge rushers in the league or the draft. They throw in comments like "he's not Myles Garrett" or "....if you can get a Myles Garrett..." etc. No player in the league at his position makes great plays on every single snap. Myles is often double and triple teamed. There are stats that verify that claim, yet we have posters saying he does not make a difference like other defensive linemen. That argument is trash. Myles is a great player and we are lucky to have him.

Overrated

Dalvin Tomlinson- Kind of a mixed bag with his time in NY and MIN and both teams used him differently. He'll be an upgrade from what we had last year, but widely considered overpaid. Perhaps a pressure signing after losing out on other interior players in FA?

Amari Cooper- He's never really met expectations since being drafted. He's a year older and we've added a few other weapons while already having DPJ and Njoku. He had great games in 2022 but they were few and far between as a #1. Does that change under a full season w/Watson?

Underrated

Anthony Walker- Heading into this third year here in Cleveland, he has led the defense since joining the team and had an amazing start to the 2022 season until he went down early on. Massive PPF grade in 2022 before getting injured for the season. Considered very smart and a locker room leader. Plus we go to the same barber shop.

Myles Garrett- It amazes me, both in the media world and on this board, how little love this guy gets considering his production and what little he has had to work with alongside on the defensive line. This is arguably the best edge rusher in the NFL.

I tend to agree w/your take on Tomlinson. Obviously, I agree about Myles, since I also chose him.

Tend to disagree about Cooper. I almost picked him for underrated. He gets very little love. Most folks on here don't even consider him a #1, yet he ranked 12th overall in advanced stats for WRs last year. I kinda disagree on Walker, too. Yes, his PFF numbers were great last year. I just think he is not stout against the run and that hurts us. I also think he struggles w/getting adequate depth on his drops in zone coverages.

Not arguing. Just commenting.

Watson makes both lists.

I think Demetric Felton, RB/WR, is underrated, under used,,,, and under appreciated according to comments on this message board.
unfortunately,
there may not be many more opportunities for him to shine on this roster as he's probably on the bubble,
or at least closer to the bubble than I2 months ago.

^that's one. Let me preliminarily suggest Isaiah Thomas, edge, Okla. as underrated, and
Michael Woods, torn acl, WR. won't be back for a while, as underrated,

... ... not current team,
Michael
Jackson, Wr nineteen ninety+, UNDERrated, underrated for sure not joking.

Brian Brennan, wide receiver nineteen eighties ... "are you kidding?" he's the best of all time, he's the b.o.a.t. best at that tight window grab into the falling down over the middle catch in double coverage only a few inches off the ground
and this...
in a time when traps< were not allowed and called catches by the nfl like they are today and the last 24 years.

Cleveland Browns’ OT Jedrick Wills is not a disappointment for one shocking reason

by Chad Porto3 days ago
link


The Cleveland Browns drafting of Jedrick Wills was a mistake but it could’ve been worse.

The Cleveland Browns made the mistake of drafting Jedrick Wills 10th overall in the 2020 NFL Draft. Wills, who has been the team’s starting left tackle ever since isn’t a “bad” player. His career will likely be long, 10+ years assuming he avoids injury. He’ll likely be able to play into his mid-30s, and may even see some success in the playoffs.

That said, the right pick was Tristan Wirfs, who went three spots later and is already a two-time Pro Bowler and two-time All-Pro player. Clearly, the Browns’ missed.

They not only missed, but they stretched. While value is a cute term for people to use in the draft, it’s utter nonsense. Someone’s pre-draft evaluation isn’t the same as another, so one person’s opinion on a pick having “value” isn’t going to be the same as another.

That’s not the case for a player entering his fourth year in the league. We can safely say that the Browns missed hard on Wills, and didn’t get value for the pick. Ezra Cleveland, a tackle turned guard who went in the 2nd round of the same draft, has outpaced Wills according to PFF.

In each of the last three seasons, Cleveland has posted better PFF scores than Wills. Cleveland posted a 66.2 score in 2020, compared to Wills’ 61.5. The same thing in 2021, when it was 68.1 score to 66.1, and in 2022 it was still Cleveland up on Wills, with a 73.5 score to Wills, 62.9.

Yes, Cleveland’s not as good as a pass-blocker according to PFF, but he blows Wills out of the water with run-blocking. So when your Top 10 pick is being outpaced by a late-second-rounder, clearly Wills wasn’t worth a first-round pick then and isn’t worth one now.

Yet, somehow, Wills isn’t a bust for one key reason. He outlasted 63.5% of the other first-rounders, as he got his fifth-year option extended. He’s among the 12 players to actually get his fifth-year option, while 20 players from the first round had theirs declined. With staggering numbers like that, there can only be one of two takeaways.

Either Wills is a good player, or Browns GM Andrew Berry refuses to accept defeat on any of his draft picks. Since the 5th year option is fully guaranteed, that means the Browns will be paying Wills just shy of $15 million. Nearly double of what he made over the first four years of his contract combined.

Is he worth it? No, but it does show you how bad the 2020 NFL Draft class was.

Jedrick Wills getting his fifth year-option from the Cleveland Browns is not the most shocking thing

The Cleveland Browns would’ve been wise to just let Wills go to free agency after 2023 and re-sign him to a cheaper deal but the fact that they picked up a nearly $15 million note on a sub-par left tackle tells us one thing; the rest of the picks from that year must truly be bad.

Only Joe Burrow, Andrew Thomas, Tua Tagovailoa, Justin Herbert, Derrick Brown, Tristan Wirfs, Jerry Jeudy, A.J. Terrell, CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, and Brandon Aiyuk had their fifth-year options picked up beside Wills. The Packers made a sweet-heart deal with Jordan Love that will keep him in Green Bay for the 2024 NFL season, but it’s not it was by extending his current deal, not by picking up his fifth-year option.

So is Wills a first-rounder? By value, no, there are second, third, and fourth-rounders who have out-performed him. Does he have a first-round value by default? Yes, the Browns have committed to him for the next two seasons, and have decided to make him a vocal point of the offensive line, even though he’s the weakest link on the offensive line.

If Wills doesn’t improve, that means the Browns will be paying a lot of money for someone who is performing worse than former Browns left tackle, Greg Robinson.

Jed Wills is the left tackle of the Cleveland Browns and nobody else is.
I'm glad he's back, it was a good pick up on the fifth year option.
Pff is subjective.

It is always easy to look back and cherry pick who we should have taken.

As the article notes, he isn't a bad player and will have a long career. He may not be as good as we hoped, but he is who we have so no use crying over spilt milk, so to speak.

Agreed. Hopefully we can get back to the actual topic now.

I will add Jed Wills to the 'overrated list'...

The Browns draft team clearly overrated Wills' ability.

I think there is overrated/underrated by fans - and over/underrated by media. I think there is a difference.

Watson could easily make the list for most overrated because he was by and large touted as an elite top 5 QB when in HOU and that was why we got him. Until he actually does it in a Browns Uniform that form and ability counts for diddly squat. Having said that I don't believe 2022 was a measure of how good he is. So Watson is a "Wait and See" for me and doesn't fit either bucket.

For overrated I'd probably have to pick Njoku - he's improved, he continues to show flashes, but some fans seem to think of him as a game breaker like Kelce or Kittle. I like Njoku - think physically he has everything, I think he's good. I just think he gets a little too much love. If he continues to improve then I'll take that all back.

For underrated - Chubb and Cooper are interesting choices by Eo - I wouldn't trade Chubb for any back in the NFL and I think he probably doesn't get the recognition for being ne of the top 3 RB's in the NFL. Like MG - he gets acknowledged, but not to the extent he deserves. Cooper is probably the same - I don't think fans realize how much of a consummate professional he is, how nuanced his route running is. I've said it before I think that Cooper is the best WR we have had on the team since the return - with the exception of a season from Josh Gordon.

Looking back maybe. As it stands today I wouldn't include him on either list.

Over rated..
JOK
Ward

Under
Pocic

Overated.
Myles Garrett. Yes he is a premier pass rusher.he has fastest
Get off of any DE in the league. 31 other teams would love
To Have him. But when the defense needs a crucial
Stop in the 4th quarter , Garrett seems to disappear more
Than people want to admit. When was the last time MG
Actually took over a game.?
Another thing about MG. He isn't exactly a producer of turnovers.
I think he only had 2 FF's in 2022. How many batted down
Passes did he have ? Funny how people cry on here
About how he gets held on every play.
All great DEs on other teams go through the same
As MG does.

Underrated
David Njoku.had He had the luxury of playing for the
Same QB year after year his numbers would look better.
Not mention different QBs equal different OCs different
Playbooks. Him sharing reps with with Hooper and
Bryant back in the day didn't help his volume Of targets downfield.
He is a match-up issue downfield.

Overrated: Anthony Walker - He's a locker room guy, glue for the team, but in the end he's an average linebacker that lacks above average skills. That's who he's been his whole career. I expected a regression to the mean had he played the entire 2022 season. Biggest strength is being beloved by his teammates.

Overrated: Wyatt Teller - His PFF grade has declined each season since 2020. Last season being his worst. Nagging injuries in 2020 and 2022 have hampered his play (recurring calf injury). Will not be surprised if this is his last season with the Browns. (Personally, I like Teller, his wife sends Christmas cards!)

Underrated: Myles Garrett - He's easily a HoF talent if he was playing for a successful organization. He's one of, if not the most, dominant D-Line players in the NFL. Truly underappreciated by many fans and I believe that is because expectations are at super hero level. Unattainable.

Underrated: Denzel Ward - He's incredibly athletic and capable of shutting down #1 WRs. Makes plays on defense. Looking forward to seeing him in Schwartz's defense.

Breakout player: Grant Delpit - He should thrive in Schwartz's defense. He was coming on at the end of last season. I will not be surprised if the Browns sign him to an extension during or after this season. That's my hot take!

Soft spot award: Anthony Schwartz - He's my current Hollywood Higgins.

I would have put him on a list like this last year. I think now people have come to realize how important of a piece he can be and one of the better TE in the entire league. People where calling him N-Joke-U last year. .

That was an AMAZING play by Ward.

I agree w/you about Ward. He is very underrated by the vocal members of this board. I also agree about Walker. I'm not bad-mouthing him, but he isn't that good on the field. Disagree on Teller. The calf injury slowed him last year. He was playing well before that. Agreed on Myles. I hope you are right about Delpit. I have heard about how good he is, but I haven't seen it on the field. I think he has talent. His reads are just pathetically slow. Hopefully, he "gets it" this year.

I tell ya who the joke is. That's Harrison Bryant. For whatever reason
He gets a pass around here for being average. 40 something career
Games and he averages about 20 yds per game.
I don't see how Bryant should make this roster this year.
He does nothing unique or special goes down on 1st contact.
His hands aren't reliable.

This offense can be really really good if Njoku is involved alot.

Overrated: JOK, Teller (sadly)
Underrated: Njoku, Taki

Not sure if Bryant will be on the roster this year but he definitely has been downgraded to #3 at best for the time being but I suppose it will come down to whether or not he is a good special teams player. I'm not sure how many TEs we kept on the 53 man roster in 2022.

As far as him being a "joke" is concerned, I don't know. I mean he was a 4th round draft selection so I don't normally have nigh expectations for those guys and I don't think this team had any grand visions of him be a long-term starter or anything.

I just called him Joke.

That said, he made no list for me this year where last year he was the poster boy of overrated. Glad he stepped up. Now, he is neither under rated or over rated.

I can’t see Bryant being on the team after this year

Honestly,
I have Wills as underrated. I still think as fans, we can't get over a comparison to Joe Thomas. And I disagree with drafting Wirfs over Wills as they were looking for a Tackle that could make move to the Left Side. I don't think Wirfs could have made that transition. The only disappointment I have had with Wills is regarding health. Outside of that I think he has been more than serviceable. Spectacular? No, but more than adequate. I mean look at some of the LT's we have had over the years....Roger Chanoine, Roman Oben, Ross Verba, Barry Stokes, LJ Shelton, Kevin Shaffer.....

The best of that bunch was Ross Verba who was really a Guard....I would argue Wills has done a better job than all of them.

That said, it is my hope that we have not yet seen the best from him.

*eo.....where did you hear about Teller calling him out? This is the first I am hearing of it....

I also don't think Bryant is as bad as being talked about...he has better hands than Njoku, and basically does what he is told. I will compromise tho and say that maybe he isn't underrated but rather unappreciated...

I put Delpit in the overrated column. I do believe he has the talent and even the drive to deserve high praise, but for me, I haven't seen it translate to the field yet.

I cannot put Walker in the overrated section because while all the criticisms have been true....That is not what he does that makes this team better. His value is in his leadership and in putting the Defense in the correct position. He is the coach on the field. We are a better defense when he is on the field.

I think Nick Harris is in the overrated category....despite holding his own when Tretter got hurt. I don't think he has the size/strength needed. Definitely has the feet and mobility. Going into last season, Harris at center was one of my bigger concerns and on the first play from scrimmage he was woefully overpowered and injured himself in the attempt to fight it off. Maybe that is unfair on my part....Even so, the national media speak to having 2 capable centers in Pocic and Harris....I think Wypler beats him out as he has the frame, the tools and the drive to be our next center. Make no mistake...Wypler is a project and needs to bulk up some for the NFL Game....But I believe he has a much higher ceiling than Harris. (the talk I hear is that Wypler wants to be GREAT...to me that means making it to the NFL is not enough for him...and I love hearing those kinds of things)

Over rated - Njoku. Paid too much for the production which is middle of the pack. I like as a player and person, but the production is not there yet. That is difficult for me to say.

Under rated - DPJ has been a pleasant surprise as a #2 for a 6th rounder.

MJ Emerson has played well.

Chubb. My favorite player and would go significantly higher in a redraft.

Agreed. Njoku? I like him too but he's just another in a long line of either failed or underperforming #1 picks for us. We could have gotten his production from a 3rd or 4th round pick.

Over Rated - David Njoku. Looks like Tarzan but sometimes plays like Jane. He has the physical talent to be the best TE in the NFL. He just seems to disappear at times. Not consistent.

Under Rated - David Bell. I believe he will be a breakout player for the Browns this year. I watched a film breakdown that said he won the majority of his routes last year.

I’ve been saying it from the get go, Njoku looks great with his shirt off but he’s hardly a great TE. Fast, athletic, yada yada… no real feel for the game. The Jason Witten and Travis Kelce’s of the world have dad bods by comparison yet run circles around Njoku as actual players.

Boy, I thought Bell looked SO pedestrian last year. There’s nothing that stands out about him. If he has a breakout year I’ll really be surprised

Breakouts only happen is a player is used. He didn't get much action last year. Maybe it was because he didn't deserve it, maybe because he was overlooked.

A couple more overrated players.

Anthony Schwartz
Tommy Togiai

Just being in the NFL makes them overrated.

I watched the youtube show of Quincy Carter and he was breaking down film and David Bell was winning around 80% of his routes. He just did not get the ball thrown his way probably because he was option 3 or 4 on the play. If Quincy noticed that I would imagine so did our coaches and I look for his opportunities to improve even with a more crowded WR room.

Quincy Carrier.

(Not poking, I called him that for a couple years before my son corrected me 😄)

Cool. You can start comparing apples to apples.

Starting in 2024.

I'll give Njoku some leeway right now... he had a pretty good year last year... over 600 yards and 4 TDs... not bad... maybe not first round, but he was top 10 in yards, top 11 in TDs... still think he has more in him, so hoping he can get over 800 yards and 7+ TDs this year...

He has also become a solid blocker.