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I think Nate Burelson had something to do with more more than 5 games played in Minnesota......had to guarantee the deal.


Sorry man....don't get hung up on the numbers. Plus....once you guarantee, it is the same as a bonus.....actually better due to tax reasons.

Seahawks sign WR Burleson to seven-year deal

By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com
(Archive)

Updated: March 25, 2006, 9:56 AM ET



Seeking another playmaker for their already potent offense, and looking for a little payback as well, the Seattle Seahawks on Friday evening signed Minnesota Vikings wide receiver Nate Burleson to a restricted free agent offer sheet worth $49 million over seven years.

Bitter Pill
Two "Poison Pill" provisions in the Nate Burleson's seven-year, $49 million offer sheet will make it virtually impossible for the Vikings to match the Seahawks offer

• All $49 million would become guaranteed if Burleson plays five or more games in the state of Minnesota in any season of the contract. The Vikings, of course, play home games in Minneapolis, at the Metrodome.
• The second provision would guarantee the full contract if Burleson is paid more on average per year than all of the Minnesota running backs combined. At least for now, the averages of the Vikings' tailbacks fall well shy of the $7 million average of the Burleson offer sheet.

When the Vikings signed former Seahawks offensive lineman Steve Hutchinson to an offer sheet earlier this offseason, they wrote into the deal a provision that guaranteed the full contract if the star guard was not the highest paid lineman on the team. The Vikings knew that Seattle could not match the offer, since Pro Bowl left tackle Walter Jones has a contract that averages more than Hutchinson's deal. The Seahawks challenged the provision, but an arbiter ruled in favor of the Vikings and Seattle chose not to match Hutchinson's offer sheet.

If the Vikings do not match Burleson's offer sheet, they will receive a 2006 third-round draft pick as compensation.

-- Information from ESPN.com senior NFL writer Len Pasquarelli.

Do those contract terms sound a little familiar? They should. The Vikings earlier this week spirited three-time Pro Bowl guard Steve Hutchinson, designated by Seattle as a transition free agent, away from the Seahawks with a seven-year, $49 million deal. Seattle declined to match the offer, and Hutchinson moved on to the Vikings, after the Seahawks lost an arbitration case in which they challenged some so-called "poison pill" provisions of the offer sheet.

There have been rumors for about a week that Burleson, who recently visited with Seahawks officials, might sign a Seattle offer sheet. But the added element of revenge -- and there is little doubt the similarity to the Hutchinson contract was more than coincidental -- certainly provides a delicious twist.

It should be interesting to see how top officials from the two franchises interact when the annual league meetings convene in Orlando, Fla., on Monday morning. The weather in Orlando for next week already is forecast as cool, and the relationship between the Vikings and Seahawks is a bit chillier after Friday.

The offer sheet that Burleson signed on Friday with the Seahawks features not only the same number of years and the same amount of total payout as the Hutchinson contract, but also includes two "poison pills" that will make it virtually impossible for the Vikings to match.

Minnesota has seven days to match the offer sheet, keep Burleson, and essentially inherit the terms of the contract negotiated by the Seahawks with the three-year veteran wide receiver. If the Vikings decline to match, they will receive Seattle's third-round choice in this year's draft as compensation. The Vikings retained a right of first refusal on Burleson by making him a restricted free agent qualifying offer of $712,000 earlier this month.

To match the deal, though, the Vikings will have to swallow hard. Beyond the size of the total payout and a total of $5.25 million in guarantees, are two devious provisions.

The first would guarantee the entire contract, all $49 million, if Burleson plays five or more games in the state of Minnesota in any season of the contract. The Vikings, of course, play home games in Minneapolis, at the Metrodome there. The second bizarre provision would guarantee the full contract if Burleson is paid more on average per year than all of the Minnesota running backs combined. At least for now, the averages of the Vikings' tailbacks fall well shy of the $7 million average of the Burleson offer sheet.

Nate Burleson
Wide Receiver
Minnesota Vikings

Profile
2005 SEASON STATISTICS
Rec Yds TD Avg Long YAC
30 328 1 10.9 20 59

It should be recalled that, when the Vikings signed Hutchinson to his offer sheet, they wrote into the deal a provision that guaranteed the full contract if the star guard was not the highest paid lineman on the team. The Vikings knew that Seattle could not match the offer, since Pro Bowl left tackle Walter Jones has a contract that averages more than Hutchinson's deal.

Before deciding whether to match the offer sheet, Minnesota officials may challenge the "poison pill" provisions, as did the Seahawks with Hutchinson's contract. Minnesota likely could have avoided the raid on Burleson had the Vikings, who possessed more than enough salary cap space, made him a higher qualifying offer, one that carried a loftier price tag in terms of compensatory picks.

By choosing to tender Burleson's lowest-level qualifying offer, the Vikings made him as easy target for teams to poach, given that it would cost them just a third-round draft choice as compensation. At that price, Burleson was one of the real steals of the restricted free agent talent pool, and Seattle, appropriately, attempted to pilfer the talented wideout.

In three seasons, Burleson has 127 receptions for 1,789 yards and 12 touchdowns. The former Nevada star, a third-round pick in the 2003 draft, has appeared in 47 games and started 33 of them. He had a seeming breakout year in 2004, when he posted 68 catches for 1,006 yards and nine touchdowns, but his numbers dropped off in 2005, when injuries limited Burleson to nine starts.

Around the NFL, however, Burleson, just 24, is regarded as an ascending talent, a wide receiver capable of 70 or more catches annually and of consistent 1,000-yard seasons.

Were the Seahawks to secure Burleson, who played at O'Dea High School in Seattle, he probably would join Darrell Jackson in the starting lineup. That would allow veteran Bobby Engram, a starter in 2005, to return to his more natural role as the No. 3 receiver working out of the slot.

Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com.

All $49 million of Nate Burleson's contract become guaranteed if Burleson plays five or more games in the state of Minnesota in any season of the contract.

That is fact. It is not debateable nor disputable in any way.

Now:

1. What part of HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE still confuses you?
2. How is Burleson's situation different? ... or are you still, for whatever stupid reason, still hung up on that $20M per year thing??? If that is the case, I refer you back to #1.
3. Re-read points 1 & 2 until it sinks in.

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There ain't been a contract in the history of the NFL that ..

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yeah, tell that one to both the Seahawks and the Vikings... they're sure to agree with you

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• All $49 million would become guaranteed if Burleson plays five or more games in the state of Minnesota in any season of the contract. The Vikings, of course, play home games in Minneapolis, at the Metrodome.
• The second provision would guarantee the full contract if Burleson is paid more on average per year than all of the Minnesota running backs combined. At least for now, the averages of the Vikings' tailbacks fall well shy of the $7 million average of the Burleson offer sheet.

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Read that 10 times...TEN TIMES...

What that says versus an INSANE 20M a year Bonus for playing 5 games in one City is a completly different thing...

The "PILL" exists...We know this...But not that 20M BS...

LOL......if that is what you offer to save face, as a friend, I accept.

And you talk about me CYA from all angles..

I got your "Friend"...

You're WRONG...And I'm RIGHT...And U KNOW IT...

The "Pills" u guys are referring to are INSANE...And will not happen...WATCH...

I'm DONE...Get back to ya in 3 months...

Really man....I consider you a friend, even if you were insulting me earlier.

I expect that from a few. They are just anti-social in nature and can't get along in any walk of life.

I don't expect that from you.

We're not wrong about anything and you're not right about anything.

Noone ever said it was an actual Pill.... who the hell ever said it was?

Man, you're delusional as hell.
Welcome back to Earth, Thanks for Playing.

Let it go man.


DinD is a bud.....we all flub up now and again.

Dayton

Seriously, you don't understand this? Really?

Someone, like the Bears could offer him a contract that says if he plays 3 games a year in Ohio, then the entire contract is guarenteed. It CAN and HAS happened.

Forget the money or anything, no one plans on paying this part of the contract, its just to make sure that the original team doesn't sign him.

Hopefully you get it.

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20M ayear in bonuses for every year he plays 5 games in Ohio is NOT GONNA HAPPEN

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No Offense intended here, but I think Purp knows that already.....

As for whether or not the NFL will allow a contract like that,, it's kinda done that already.. But I DO seem to remember discussion about the NFL attempting to curb those kind of "Poison Pill" contract clauses.. Don't remember the details it was so long ago..

Whatever, if you can't see it, I can't help you.

As far as how the media views DA compared to how we do. It's been said, we watch every play while the watch the highlights. You'd have to be dumb and blind not to see what DA's problems are *can't hit a reciever in stride, throws the ball a million miles per hour over the middle, throws alot of interceptions.* If we have the chance and someone offers a 1st and 3rd for DA, you HAVE to take it. Mainly because I think Quinn will be great...at least as good as DA has been in his "rookie" year.

The point is that they will never get that money... it doesn't matter what the number is because the whole point is for it be something that noone in their right mind would ever agree to.... we're arguing semantics if you haven't noticed, bro.


Let's say the Vikes want him.... they write up an offer sheet for a $30M, 6 year deal. .. BUT, if he plays 5 or more games in the state of Ohio during the life of the contract, then he is guaranteed $20M a year, ballooning the contract value to a maximum of $150M.

Pretty insane numbers, right? Until you realize that the Vikes will never play 5 games in Ohio in a single season so the whole point of those numbers is to guarantee that we won't match and they will never, ever be paid. We were never talking *actual* contract dollars here... we were talking Poison Pill provisions. In that context, there is nothing out of line about $20M a year guaranteed, because it is money that will never be paid.


As for would the NFL or NFLPA let it fly? Damned if I know and who cares.... it was a HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE TO STATE A POINT, lol.

Thank you. I'm glad someone understood I wasn't stating what I thought an actual offer would be but what someone could do to insure that they got DA. Of course, he'd never get paid that amount. Not a chance in hell.

DinD....please tell me you just felt like being obstinate....that you're really not that thick....

As I recall they talked about curbing the poison pill contract but they never actually wrote it into thier bylaws or whatever you'd want to call them.

And if it's not written down somewhere you know someone will eventually try it again.

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DinD....please tell me you just felt like being obstinate....that you're really not that thick...

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Obstinate...Not that "Thin"...hehe

They still don't get it tho...

Let it go dude ... not worth it ... in theory Otto is right .. if someone wants to ( ) they can put a poisin pill in ..... like I said Bro .. its not worth it ...

and you guys are ruining a great thread ...

Peenie if u don't want me in your house .. don't open the door so damm wide and think I'm not going to come through it ..

and Dolts ... I apologize for insulting U .... Sorry ...

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and Dolts ... I apologize for insulting U .... Sorry ...

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apology excepted.

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*can't hit a reciever in stride,

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Are you sure? He has made some very bad throws at times on slants, but he does hit many, many recievers in stride.

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throws the ball a million miles per hour over the middle, throws alot of interceptions.

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Are we talking about Bret Farve?

His int number should be much higher because all of the dropped picks early on, but he has been improving in this area. He will always throw picks because the chances he takes.

He is not nearly as bad as some say, nor is he as good as others think. He is a starting caliber QB in this league. Is he in the top 3rd, middle or bottom 3rd? only time will tell.

He is a middle 3rd QB. Man has a cannon arm, but has big time problems throwing it to a guys chest. I'll say, when he throws it downfield, he does hit his recievers in stride, but if he is throwing the 5-7 Out/In Route, you'll see the ball hit the reciever low/too far ahead/too far behind. He is leveling off and your going to see an average to an above average QB the rest of the way. He isn't a Franchise QB IMO though.

"Anderson does a great job of moving inside the pocket....he doesn't need to improve much there."

??? Possibly you are mistaking his surprising escapability he has shown. But moving inside the pocket is maybe one of his All Time Worst Mechanics.

Its when he has to make that little lateral slide that he loses his feet and has problems setting them back correctly or in time...usually he'll panic with the feet.

Sure he steps up nice into the pocket -btw which this year is the first year a Browns QB has been able to do consistantly since 99. Kudos to the Interior OL But he's a good pocket passer so that comes natural to step up...and he's tall so he can sit there as the pocket closes in and still step and fire.

But honestly any QB can step up into a pocket - if its there to step up into is the key. But its that lateral slide that Manning, Brady, Romo do so well - that DA is light years behind and I really don't know if his feet can ever allow him to improve.

the rolling out stuff...actually he has gotten his steps right on the roll outs and has improved. Ergo - watch the bootleg he has gotten the steps down pretty well even if his lips move while taking them.

Its the breakdowns or good coverage where time breaks down the pocket and he suprisingly escapes (has done it often enough where now its not surprising) So he breaks away...runs to his left or right - as he is heading towards the LOS and sidelines he spots a wide open KW2 20 yards down field...or a Wide open Heiden in the endzone and with no hot pursuit - throws that ball...Gosh knows where but not anywhere close to the target.

And I'll tell you something. Against playoff teams...those plays are BIG!!! Look at what Big Ben does to us. We play great D coverage is there he escapes our rush and bam makes us pay when we play great D! And he does that in the playoffs cause good teams will make that happen more than bad ones. DA is simply HORRENDOUS at this. And probably is the biggest separation for me of the 2 DA vs. BQ when I state one will take us farther.

"The only place I read where DA isn't all that good is on message boards."

You shouldn't say that so smug...its the part that gets some mad at you. But I'll play.
1. The media doesn't have a clue about our team until AFTER IT HAPPENS.
2. Actually you are incorrect. I can guess maybe you don't have NFL Network.
cause more than one week they have broken DA down and showed his imperfections...not greatness but imperfections. In the not so oft watched AFC n NFC Playbook that they do every week.

They really did a great job with computer graphics and actual film and broke them down and showed DA's inaccuracies even on successful plays. It was a DA is doing well statistically...YEAH BUT piece.

So you are wrong in your statement. And with your statement insinuating that if its not in general print and regurgitated over n over than it can't be so!

Well I hope you appreciate posts like this instead of calling you a dolt cause you know I wouldn't. My only fear is that its more than a couple of short sentences so that you probably won't read it...

JMHO

eo...

again you show why you are well respected around here...you have an opinion and you back it up with evidence and humility, without name calling

thanks bro...your posts are routinely credible and worth reading

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"The only place I read where DA isn't all that good is on message boards."

You shouldn't say that so smug...its the part that gets some mad at you. But I'll play.
1. The media doesn't have a clue about our team until AFTER IT HAPPENS.

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And neither do most fans. Were you predicting 8-5 at this point? Were you predicting DA would have the numbers he has?
Of course not, no one did... including our coaches.

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2. Actually you are incorrect. I can guess maybe you don't have NFL Network.
cause more than one week they have broken DA down and showed his imperfections...not greatness but imperfections. In the not so oft watched AFC n NFC Playbook that they do every week.

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That's nice... but until DA starts losing games, I don't really care what NFL Network thinks when they watch the slo-mo.

Anyone who is still considering letting DA go because we have BQ is blindly optimistic. We know DA can win games, we know he can produce in crunch time, we know he manage the game, we know he can put up points.

All we know about BQ, is that he is supposed to be talented.

Yet we still have Browns fans ready and willing to let a proven, capable QB slide off into the sunset for a prospect that has yet to show anything. That is insanity. No matter what Diam or anyone says about BQ, we have yet to see anything that suggests that BQ will be a better QB. He has not played one regular season game, hasn't taken one snap, hasn't read one defense. He is a question mark, and thats the bottomline. You cannot say BQ is going to be better or worse.

But with DA, you know what you've got. You have a QB that has put us on the map once again. A guy that can make plays when it matters, a guy that wins us games despite the fact that our defense has sulked about, amongst the ugliest girls at the party.

With Da we have consistent play. No matter how you slice it, DA has been consistant. He is consistent in getting it done. He has been consistent in making spectacular throws and less than spectacular throws. He has given life to a franchise by putting the ball in the air. And he throws a ball that our receivers can go and get.

Whether anyone likes it or not. DA is the most proven player, at the QB position, on our roster. Letting him slip away is a gamble, no matter the prospects we gain.

I do know teams look to take away the deep ball.

That still doesn't diminish anything.


It does..if he can't consistantly hit make plays in the underneath areas his valuen drops...even teams who may be interested will see his inability to produce in those areas..

Steve brought up a good point.......the play has level, but it really hasn't fallen off...that is a positive.

It hasn't picked up either , and thats a negative..he shoulda had more plays against the Jets and he (once again) missed open recievers...
The problem a lot in here have is that we have seen sucky QB play for too ling without any of our previous QB's doing anything positive ...

Now with the one area shored up..the Oline, we see what a QB can do..a QB who actually hasn't taken a lot of snaps till this season..but a QB who can be upgraded..
While I like the way he's handled the offense he still leaves a lot out there...a lot that can be upgraded,,,

I respect if you think Quinn will be better......he might be....I even think that possible, but you don't just trade off the guy for a might be....really man, that just doesn't make sense.

see above comment...If your starter can be upgraded you do whats best for the team..period...we've had this discussion since the Botch days...Anderson is far from being a complete QB...and his upside is limited...

Anderson is a upgrade from Frye...(and I came to my conclusion on him after his first season)...but...
I see too many plays that could be completed and are not..
I see teams are gameplanning him and he's not adjusting the way he should..or could...which tells me about his upside..still can't hit guys in the medium areas..

I'm not as worried about the pill as some in here are..
What might be funny is if teams don't come at him hard..only offer a weight control pill..not a poision pill...

If anyone really wants him bad enough, they'll offer him a deal that might be just outside of what Phil will want to resign him for...I doubt if it's anything so incredible he'll faint...

I read it.......I don't catch the playbook series often, and missed the one where they were breaking down the Browns/Anderson.

You could be right on the lateral move...it is just that my impression is the guy does well in the pocket and can't be in there with feet planted all the time.

I do agree. DA has trouble on the move. I guess it just boils down to I don't really care as I don't see it as big a deal or I don't expect a guy who can do it all....mainly because there aren't many of them out there.

At least we are to the point where we are looking at our qb, and measuring his shortfalls against the best qbs of the league and not some middle of the road guy.


Smug.....not at all. I don't see anybody, coaches included talking about letting him go for picks. Sure, as fans we see much(at least what we think we see) and some are always going to have some bias on who is playing as is the case here.

Really, if we hadn't spent one of those picks some clamor about to get Brady, and we didn't have him, do you think we would be having this discussion on a game by game basis?? I doubt it. It gets back to something i called a nightmare and talked about long before that.

A team needs 1 qb. And for whatever reason, we in Cleveland have seemingly been strapped with 2 for the last decade or so.


That creates problems.


I bet if you asked the players on the team about letting DA go for picks, they wouldn't say no, they would say hell no. He is their qb, something this team really hasn't had since our return. Tim might have had that for a season or two before injury and breakdowns changed all of that.

No doubt, the media catches every rising star and dumps them once they fizzle. This is no different. The question is how soon will the guy fizzle??

It is obvious DA plays well enough to lead his team, and well enough to win games. He starts slow but for the most part plays pretty clutch at the end...I think you have made that point a time or two.

Do you think DA is going to regress? That is the bigger question than is he going to get better.

The question still remains on if Quinn will be better. I do hope he is because that just makes us a better team. I am just not willing to make that jump of faith until I know....thus the comment about screw the draft picks. I take it you already knew that since you didn't harp on that like a few others.

I am one who thinks we can find that out over another season.

Having read you for 5-6 years now, I know you have always felt a player can get better with coaching and training. So....what about DA. As I said to Attack(on this thread I think), we now have some identifiable areas that can be addresses. Will another off season help improve some of those areas??

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If we have the chance and someone offers a 1st and 3rd for DA, you HAVE to take it. Mainly because I think Quinn will be great

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Ok,, so your main reason for thinking we should take a deal for a 1st and 3rd isn't because DA isn't as good as most people think, it's because you THINK Quinn will be great..

You are willing to give up a QB that RANKS in the top ten of all QB's in the league for an unknown..

Albeit an Unknown that seems to have all the potential in the world,, one that also was the BEST QB in camp last summer from what I can see.. and one that seems to lead the team when he's in there.. (case you hadn't noticed, I have high hopes for Quinn myself)

But are you willing to bet the ranch on it.. I mean really.. you are now the GM of the Cleveland Browns.. You have a QB that is well thought of within the organization.. both players and coaches seem to take to the guy.. and his record as a starter this season is 7-4.. and he has HELPLED the team get into a position to make the playoffs. (NO, he's not the only reason,, just part of it)

Knowing that, are you willing to let this guy get away for a couple of picks (granted, they could be high picks) in favor of starting an unknown commodity.

If I'm the GM, I'm not so quick to jump on that horse.. Myself, I'd rather sign him to a decent contract that he finds acceptable but that doesn't stand in the way of a trade at some later date. Multi Year if I can get the guy to sign it. (short of that, a high tender)

Then let them battle it out in camp.. May the best man win... Simple plan, one that protects the Browns TODAY and perhaps going forward for years to come..

As a team and as a fan base, we've seen about all the bad performers we want to see... perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to kick a guy to the curb because he has a couple of hitches in his game.. Some of which, I'm convinced can be improved upon despite what the GURU's on here think.

But that's just my opinion,,,,

Daman.......to be fair.....if we are really sure BQ will be the real deal....then almost anything we get for Anderson is worth it.

If we tender him low, then we are as sure as we can be about BQ.

If we tender him high and work to keep DA, then we really aren't so sure about BQ.

It is like a insurance premium.

If the odds are slim you aren't going to die anytime soon, you pay a low premium. As the odds of death increase, you pay a higher premium.

If we hold out for a lot with DA, it could mean we aren't that sold on BQ's ability.

King-mon, good post! I wish DA success. Much of it. I really think he has upside IF he gets more experience and IF he gets coached aggressively out of some things such as staring down receivers, throwing into trip and even quad coverage, staring down receivers, etc. His strength is throwing BBs straight upfield, so Chud may as well call into his strength. Also very obvious, and suspect, and so I am concerned with POs looming, how he has been judged before this and how is he being evaluated by the same "experts" who assured us CF was the guy and gave us "the best chance for winning" and the bogus double-secret RAC initiative of starter that was supposed to paralyze opponents. To be clearer, DA didn't get enough reps; he can improve. But CF stunk at Pukesborg game without significant improvement in his play and had developed and kept bad fundamentals. I hope that DA is held to accounts for mistakes and they throttle him. QB errors are bigger than some others; he has been a bit too complacent for my taste, such as seeing him smiling and laughing on sideline after getting picked. I expect to show a bit more edge.
I also think this is his honeymoon dream season, by that, meaning as he gets more tape, he is neutralized. Chud can help with more variety and more misdirection and more Jam-All L. But Thomas has helped incredibly.


GO Browns! And may the ELf be with you!

EO, as I wrote in your what I saw thread I found your observations in the pre game interesting. Here is what you wrote.

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Onto the Game - We got inside about an hour before the game. Thought I was going to have a heart attack climbing those stairs as we were 20 rows straight up. We watched the team warm up. I particularly took interest in watching our QB especially DA. In warmups man o man DA was spot on - I mean he put every throw right at the hands of the WR perfect. You can tell he was working on his footwork as he stopped once cause he literally got off on the wrong foot from the self snap. I'm thinking - boy are we going to see him light it up today.

Then we went to 7 on 7's and onto 11 on 11's. Poof - that perfect DA just disappeared. Its all about comfort zones with him I guess. If he's in one, he's lethal if not then not so good.

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I have noticed the very same thing in the one time I saw DA in pre game as well, and I thought WOW this guy can really hurle the ball, and his throws are spot on. I thought well this is bound to be the HOT DA day. But like you said he got worse as they continued thru the drills. By the way I thought you made a great observation.

Having said all that one is left to wonder several things:

DA said in a interview that when he was at Oregon he was told to throw the ball down the field it really didn't matter if it was a pick or not. I really thought that was strange even at the college level for a coach to teach a kid to just keep throwing down the field and the hell with the outcome.

Having said that, the Browns coaching staff has worked long and hard at getting DA to make better decisions with the ball. And by all appearances he has improved. Hopefully we can agree on that much...

As problems within DA's game have come to the surface I at least think he has addressed them, maybe not completely but to the extent where one could easily see improved play. Example the short dump off passes that he missed in the Pitt game are quite a bit better IMHO, or at least they appear to be better to me??? Bad eye and all, LOL...

Before I go further let me say this, I honest to God believe that BQ is the better option long term for the Browns. To me at this very moment I think if BQ were to play he would out perform DA by far.

Now on to my points and questions.

DA is a young QB, and while he has his flaws he has worked to refine, and improve his game, and better yet it shows on the field.

Issues

At the start of the season it was poor decisions. He isn't perfect every single time in his decisions but he has vastly improved.

He was horrid in dump offs, lacked touch and was wild with his throws. He appears to be working hard at that part of his game and has shown improvement.

His footwork is not good and he often doesn't set his feet when throwing which makes him wild with his throws.

He doesn't throw the ball well when moving from the pocket.

He lacks good touch on his passes when touch is called for.

He may have completed a slant this year, but I don't remember him doing it. His throws are either way to far ahead of the reciever or way to far behind. Any way you cut it he is awful at that throw.

Non Issues

The kid wins games, and is actually pretty clutch when the chips are down.

He reads Blitzs well identifies man coverages well and more often then not when blitzed he shines brightest.

He's at his best when he takes a 3 step or 5 step and the ball comes out quickley, the more time he has to think after the snap the worse his throws are.

Most important asset aside from winning, is he appears very coachable, he seems to listen well, and work hard at improvement when the coaches point out things he needs to get better at.

He is young.

EO a lot of what you saw and what you said leads me to some questions I think we all should at least consider.

DA has shown the ability to get hot, and be unbelievably good.

That leads me to, can he over time get so that he reaches the comfort level he seems to need in order to be his best all the time or even most of the time? After all he is still young, learns well, and has shown improvement thru the season.

Is he now at the top of his game, or can we expect him to continue to improve?

All pretty tuff question EO. I can understand why folks would want to continue down the DA trail, he has proven a winner, and he has shown that he is coachable and will work hard to improve. Not exactly bad traits for a young QB to have. He has a rocket arm, and does real well when blitzed, something that many young QB's don't handle well. I will concede a lot of the success that DA has had goes right back to the O Line play, no question there, but he still has to deleiver the ball, and for the most aprt he has been pretty good all things considered.

I guess I am saying it's hard not to like what DA has done, and it's hard not to like his potential. And it's says a lot about the quality of his play when you think about the fact that he is likely to set new team records for TD's and yardage. Not to mention the Browns are on pace to shatter team records for total points. There indeed is a lot to like about DA.

Theres also a lot to like about what letting him go would mean to the Browns, a #1 and a #3 is nothing to sneeze at, it could be the thing that propells the Browns into the SB, in the not to distant future. On the other head as certain as I am that BQ is the better option he is yet to establish that fact. DA, has proven his worth flawed or not, the guy is a great team player, that works hard, doesn't have a ego problem, and has continued to show real tangable improvement.

It's impossible not to look around the league, and see the number of teams that suffer as a result of poor play from the QB postion. Some of it has to do with poor line play some of it has to do with crappy QB's. None the less a QB that has shown the ability to win games and perform at a high level can be pretty hard to find. Thats why I have a hard time moving on from DA and moving onto BQ, and being done with it.

At the end of the day, perhaps what is best is for the Browns to go threw next season with DA on the roster and see what BQ will do. Then on the other hand how well will BQ do knowing that DA is behind him just waiting for him to faulter. God what a problem to have. Darned if you do darned if you don't.

Me I have pretty much made up my mind that BQ is the better option, I know that if I am PS and I make the wrong call, I could set the Browns back, and perhaps I will even if BQ turns out the better option over time, he may suffer to start out?? I move on I take the picks and trust my football insticts, knowing full well I could live to regret my decision. But I do it, and move on. At the end of the day I trust and will support whatever decision PS makes. I won't come on here and complain if the thing blows up in his face I understand what he is trying to do, and to get there he is going to have to rely on the coaches, and what he knows to get him thru, this decision. Sure glad I don't have to face the firing squad he will if he is wrong thow...

JMHO

It really matters who the picks are coming from. If it's high picks that would come from...idk the Falcons then yes I take it because your getting top ten talent. OTOH if its someone like say the Vikes, i'd have to consider the contract and the value of the player as opposed to the contract.

Another thing is, if Anderson gets more than one offer, he will choose the team. I'm not so sure if he got deals from both the Falcons and Vikes, he'd probably take less money from the Vikings to go with a better team *thus we get low picks*. I don't know, at the moment but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to keeping them both, let them battle it out in camp, then trade away the other for picks/players. However, a QB battle might do more harm than good rather than just giving it to Anderson or Quinn.

It'll be an interesting offseason...and i'm glad i'm not the GM!

Coming from the person who professed his HATE for Quinn coming out of the draft, I rarely read what Tyler has to say on this subject. He'd be thrilled with anyone over Quinn from the way he ranted after the draft.

And neither do most fans. Were you predicting 8-5 at this point?

Sorry, most fans on this board no more football than the media and even National media simply spread themselves out too thin. Us heck we know what these guys eat from the stool samples...lol

Predicting...what the heck does that have to do with football knowledge...lol I ain't no clairvoyant. I just like football. But actually I had us at 13-0 at this point.

"That's nice... but until DA starts losing games, I don't really care what NFL Network thinks when they watch the slo-mo."

So what are you saying? Ignorance is Bliss? It wasn't what they thought...it was facts that they discovered about DA...FACTS pure and simple and they drew it out. But I guess you missed it. So it doesn't exist.

Sorry but you can't just close your eyes, ears and make noises so that you don't hear whats going on.

And guess what...Its not DA winning or losing games - Its the Browns winning or losing. He's just part of it.

JMHO - but thanks for the opinion that Football doesn't count in the subject discussion. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil - yeah thats been a winner in the history of mankind