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#2016668 05/25/23 09:05 AM
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Not much discussion going on so I thought it would be worth a new thread.

Let's look at the changes of each team in the North one at a time. Today the Ravens are up.

The Ravens got it done and signed Lamar. They also hired Todd Monken as the OC.

They signed receivers Odell, Nelson Agholor, and drafted Zay Flowers. They released Calais Campbell.

There were other changes but these were the big moves.

Be careful with what you ask for. I have underestimated Lamar since he was drafted. I have given that up. He has proven the kind of player he is. He wins games.

He is now getting what he wants. He wants to throw the ball and depend less on him running the ball. The Ravens added receivers and Monken is a passing coordinator. He likes to get the ball downfield. Now they have Bateman, Odell, Agholor, Flowers and others. They have JK Dobbins and Gus Edwards as RB's.

On defense they have Roquan Smith, Oweh, Marlon Humphrey.

Harbaugh is a good head coach and their staff and organization are top notch.

I respect the Ravens. They are a well run team.

My question concerning them is will Lamar prove once and for all that he is a threat as a passer? We are going to find out.

Lamar may find that holding the ball longer and looking for options downfield is not an easy task. This has the potential to be great or lead to big problems.
I expect problems in the beginning. Change can be hard. Lamar has always been a guy who's fallback option is escape the rush and take off. He is an amazing runner. He may find that staying behind the LOS and keeping focus downfield is unnatural.

What we do know is when Lamar plays they have won a lot of games.

IMO our challenge against the Ravens will be to force errors by Lamar with tight coverage and pressure.

On offense we need balance against them. Use the whole field and mix things up. DW legs should help. RPO's could pay off. Always use Chubb.

The Ravens are a good team. I am hoping with DW that we match up well.

bonefish #2016684 05/25/23 11:21 AM
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The only real comment I have regarding Lamar is even if he passes more and runs less, which I believe you are right in saying all indications are that he will, extending the play shouldn't be much of a problem for him. Even if he isn't actually running the ball his speed and elusiveness should make it much easier for him to scramble and avoid the sack better than most QB's.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #2016707 05/25/23 01:01 PM
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That is true. He can and will avoid the rush.

The problem is when he does. Will he be able to re adjust find a receiver and throw him open. Rodgers makes it look easy. It is not.

Lamar has not been that guy. He was more like a single read. Throw to the seams with heavy use of the TE. His weakness was outside the numbers.

Throwing guys open with anticipation. Throwing the deep comeback and back shoulder.

Under Monken we are going to find out. I don't think it will be a seamless transition.

bonefish #2016716 05/25/23 01:26 PM
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I understand that's what Lamar "was" and I agreed for quite some time just like you did that he could not carry an offense that would force him to be more pass heavy and depend less on his legs. But he has seemed to hone his skills at progressing in his reads and reading the field better as time has gone on. I'm certainly not trying to predict that he will be highly successful in doing this. I'm just saying the indicators seem to suggest that he has a very good chance to.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #2016736 05/25/23 03:00 PM
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I have underestimated Lamar before and was proven wrong.

I think it could go either way. He may do fine or he may struggle.

So far he has played the game one way. The Ravens brought in Greg Roman. They formed their offense around Lamar's skills and were a run based team.

Lamar has struggled at times; the playoffs for sure. Teams have figured him out to a degree. IMO at some point you have to win from the pocket.

I don't think it easy for a player to change from what he has been. Lamar got to the NFL being Lamar. Once there he played the way that got him to the NFL.

This is a big change from Roman to Monken.

I am not making predictions. It is kind of a wait and see thing for me.


bonefish #2016739 05/25/23 03:13 PM
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It's certainly a wait and see thing for me as well. I think he hasn't actually focused on playing one way as he has played in a combination of ways. He has used both the pass and run pretty well. I think now he will just be focusing somewhat more on the pass and less on the run. Not so much a change in the total way that he plays but more of an an adjustment to how he has played.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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bonefish #2016760 05/25/23 07:02 PM
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Underestimating Lamar is an annual event. Then he plays and wins games. His threat to run will always be a hard thing to deal with. If he gets his passing game going, his running could get even more dangerous. Deep routes with four receivers leaves a lot of open field for him.


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bonefish #2016783 05/25/23 09:18 PM
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The Ravens are getting a makeover on offense. No more
Greg Roman conservative dink and dunk passing game.

Lamar is the Rockstar of the offense. That's no secret.
Their WR room much like the Browns WR room is overhauled
Odell Beckham will bring his A game. His body is fresh and
Not alot of miles on. He is going to a culture of winning
He doesn't have to ignite the culture
He had pressure in Cleveland to turn the teams fortunes around

I think the player to look out for in Bmore is Isiah Likely
Huge TE who was raw last year. He is a match-up issue.

I think the Ravens might have oline issues this year.
I think they are starting 2 new guys upfront

Defensively I just don't know what to think.
Queen wasn't extended at LB. He has been a bust.
Jason Owah needs to take that next big step.
Kyle Hamilton had a up down rookie year at S.

The Ravens can win the North .but will Jackson have
To lead the offense to 30 pts a game to do it?

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The Ravens will be tough. I expect it from them.

They are well coached and always prepared.

We have to play better to beat them. They are not a team to beat themselves.

In many ways the North will not allow you mistakes if you plan to win. It is not so much about them as it is us. We have to improve.

We have to be better on defense. We have to be more consistent on offense. We have the roster. It is a matter of going out and executing.

This year for the Browns is really about coaching. KS has the offense and Jim Schwartz has the defense.

I am pro Kevin Stefanski. I think he is a good coach. This season is a big year for him. Obviously the play of DW will be critical. I think both guys are up for the challenge.

Next up The Steelers.

bonefish #2016860 05/27/23 09:01 AM
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The Steelers.

Here is a link to their off season transactions:
https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/transactions/_/name/pit/pittsburgh-steelers

Steelers draft picks:
Broderick Jones - Offensive Tackle - Round 1
Joey Porter Jr. - Cornerback - Round 2
Keeanu Benton - Defensive Lineman - Second Round
Darnell Washington - Tight End - Third Round
Nick Herbig - Linebacker - Fourth Round
Cory Trice Jr. - Defensive Back - Seventh Round
Spencer Anderson - Offensive Lineman - Seventh Round

The Steelers season rides on the play of Pickett. That is not an overstatement.

We know this team. They play defense. They are well coached. They win. However, they have not won enough in a long time.

Pickett was the 20th pick in the draft. He had a 63% comp rate, threw for 2404 yds, 7 td's 9 int's.

Steelers won 6 of their last 7 games. They beat the Browns the last game of the season 28-14 and ended with 9-8 season.

Probably one of the best coaching jobs by Tomlin. He started a rookie qb and had a winning season.

It is not like we can expect the Steelers to be worse than last season. Pickett will most likely play better.

George Pickens was a receiver I wanted the Browns to draft. He is damn good.

We all know what TJ Watt brings to the table.

I expect the Steelers to be a tough to beat. I respect Tomlin. I know they come to play every game.

If Pickett ups his game the Steelers could be shocker in this division.

bonefish #2016866 05/27/23 11:14 AM
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The Ravens will beat you with their defense.
The Browns have a lot of work to do to escape 4th place and your Head Coach hasn't shown much new lately.

The North, it's cold up there.

Last edited by THROW LONG; 05/27/23 11:15 AM. Reason: to do to

Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
bonefish #2016911 05/27/23 08:47 PM
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We have a long long way to go to change this trend. Our Browns are on the clock now - time to get off the bottom of the stack!


Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
bonefish #2016914 05/28/23 01:52 AM
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Quote
We have to play better to beat them. They are not a team to beat themselves.

In many ways the North will not allow you mistakes if you plan to win. It is not so much about them as it is us. We have to improve.

These two lines say it all for me.
Until CLE learns to beat teams that don't beat themselves, they are still an unproven product.

AFCN is this year's NFL crucible.
CLE needs to play >.500 in the division to be considered post-season legit. That's a heavy haul, in this division.


Dawg- I really wouldn't have it any other way. S# has never been easy for us.
Because- if CLE can beat its own division into this year's playoffs, they will have earned what they need to go all the way.


.02


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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bonefish #2016915 05/28/23 04:44 AM
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The odd thing is the easiest road to the playoffs is to win the division. The AFC in general is strong. I don't know that the north is any stronger than any of the others. We might need 12 wins to lock a playoff spot if we don't take our division.

All I know is we better be blowing snot game one, and never let up. If we come out dilly-farting around the first 5 games of the season, our fate might be sealed. In many years we look at late season games as "must win". For us, this year, we better win out of the gate. Game 1 is a must win game.

We do have a bit of an advantage in that we get the extra exhibition game with the HOF game. I know that coaches say it is a long season and don't want to risk injury in the preseason, and I get that, but we can't afford to use those games as a chance to run a bunch of scrubs around the field and not have the starters in form.

I don't want to hear Stefanski talking about how the team got in some good work. I want to hear him talk about being pleased the starters scored 17 points the first 3 series on the field. I want to hear him talk about how the D looked like savage animals on the field.

The message needs to be clear....win games.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Clemdawg #2016917 05/28/23 07:25 AM
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I am with you in that I wouldn't want it any other way.

I never look at the schedule and freak out. Last year and all the years before don't mean a thing to me.

When I see sh** like "Factory of Sadness". It pisses me off. **** that.

Win the division. Beat good teams or go home.

AB and KS have plotted to be in this position. We have our quarterback. We made the necessary coaching changes. We have brought in talent.

We have a good roster. There is still lots of things outside what we can not control. And the division is tough.

I see no reason for this team not to play good football and win games. All the "if they don't talk" can stay in the closet. Everyone in the organization knows the score. This team has been built to win. Come September we will find out if they can.

bonefish #2016918 05/28/23 07:36 AM
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The North will field 3 teams who had a winning record last year.

The Browns should be good enough to compete with every North team.

It is all about playing with urgency to win each week. The weight of this season is really on Stefanski and Watson.


bonefish #2016921 05/28/23 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
The North will field 3 teams who had a winning record last year.

The Browns should be good enough to compete with every North team.

It is all about playing with urgency to win each week. The weight of this season is really on Stefanski and Watson.


It is on those guys to a large degree.

Watson isn't going anywhere. Stefanski might be gone week 5 at the bye week if we start out losing 3-4 games.

Haslam has done everything you could ask an owner. He isn't cheap. He has spent the money and has shown patience the last several years. Now it is time to win.

If I was Stefanski, I wouldn't count on him having a very long fuse.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




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Ballpeen #2016923 05/28/23 09:22 AM
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All NFL head coaches know you have to win.

I do not think KS will be fired mid-season unless this team like 2-7.

I don't play the prediction game. I don't know how we will play. I expect us to be a good team. I think that is the expectations of the organization as a whole.

After following football for so many years. What I have learned is you do play one game at a time. Coaches say that all the time and they are right.

Seasons can flap in the breeze on a few plays. Just think about the Jets game.

Football is unpredictable. People love to make predictions but that is all BS.

It is easier to judge a baseball team. Not the playoffs but the regular season. Good teams will have the best records over 162 games.

Football is more about who is playing well near the end and who is healthy. Good quarterback play increases your odds. But there are many other factors at play as well.

IMO the North is up for grabs.

bonefish #2016924 05/28/23 09:45 AM
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The Bengals.

They won the North. They have been to the SB and the AFC title game the last two years.

Anyone thinking Joe Burrow is average or mediocre is not looking at facts.

Here are the transactions for 2023.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/transactions/_/name/cin/cincinnati-bengals

Here is the Bengals draft class for 2023

Pick 28 - DE Myles Murphy, Clemson.
Pick 60 - CB DJ Turner II, Michigan.
Pick 95 - S Jordan Battle, Alabama.
Pick 131 - WR Charlie Jones, Purdue.
Pick 163 - RB Chase Brown, Illinois.
Pick 206 - WR Andrei Iosivas, Princeton.
Pick 217 - P Brad Robbins, Michigan.

What we know is they have the top receiving unit. They have the quarterback to get them the ball.

Their run game is average.

Their defense was 6th in points allowed and 16th in yards given up.

The Bengals are the defending champions of the AFC North. We split with them last year.

If favorites means anything?? They would have to be considered the favorites.

The Browns have had success against them.

However, every season life begins anew. Last season is history. This season a mystery. Each game is the present.

I think we match up well with the Bengals. The games could go either way.

Ballpeen #2016932 05/28/23 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ballpeen
I know that coaches say it is a long season and don't want to risk injury in the preseason, and I get that, but we can't afford to use those games as a chance to run a bunch of scrubs around the field and not have the starters in form.

I pretty much agree with this entire post with this being my only caveat'. Most NFL teams only play their starters for a fraction of those preseason games. So I have to wonder if your starters are playing against the scrubs of the other teams, just how much are you actually gaining? I can see how it might help a bit, but just how can you measure the success of what you're doing if you're playing against back ups and third stringers from other teams? It may actually instill a sense of false security.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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you can measure it by how well it was reported last year that teams started out who played their starters a lot during the camp and preseason.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
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Excellent post

bonefish #2017091 05/30/23 10:40 PM
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Interesting take on head coaches - I'll leave it at that.

It is what it is until it isn't.

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steve0255 #2017093 05/30/23 11:15 PM
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I don't get the "It is what it is until it isn't" part of your comment...


HERE WE GO BROWNIES! HERE WE GO!!
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The beauty of highly mobile QBs and why OC’s love them is because D’s can never fully commit to the pass. You’re always in this ambiguous, gambling place where you’re rolling the dice with your swing resources towards coverage or run. In theory this helps marginal throwing QBs as they’re more regularly throwing against thinner coverage. Lamar isn’t marginal… buuuut yea, sometimes he is. He’s hot and cold as a passer. And to my inexpert eye the answer usually is coverage. He’ll rip some first downs with his feat. He may score once or twice. But if you shut down the passing game the net is your odds of winning are better. If he’s on he’s on and you hope to win the shoot out. But if he’s not on as a passer, he doesn’t often make it all up with his feet. Sometimes. Not often. And he’s getting older.
We’ve split with them 4 of the last 5 years and I suspect we split again. I will cherish the year we thump them twice. I don’t think it’s this year though.




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FATE #2017097 05/31/23 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by FATE
I don't get the "It is what it is until it isn't" part of your comment...

Simple:

Stefanski's ranking of 23rd by this person's scale.

"WHAT IT IS":

2 consecutive losing seasons.
Worst record in the AFC North over the last 3 years.
Grossly overrated as a HC
1/2 of the number playoff appearances of the other 3 division teams have had during the 3-year timeframe.
Though not all Stefanski, CLE has had 9 out of the last 10 years with a losing record (worst in the NFL).
Of the bottom 8 AFC teams in regular season wins over the last 3-years, only CLE and NEP have not made a head coaching change the last 2 years.
Of the 8 AFC teams that have not made a coaching change the last 2 years (3 + years' experience), only CLE (Stefanski) has a losing record over the last 2-years while holding on to his job (MIA and LAC also have a better record but with 2-year HC's or less).

Thus - "It is what it is" -

Until it isn't


Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
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I like KS but this year there are no more excuses. We now have a QB that can make all the throws, run and can extend plays and improvise. We have the best set of skill players that we've had since KS has been HC. We now have a very good DC and at least on paper, many skilled D players. Time to make the playoffs and a serious run. Barring many injuries to key players there are no more excuses. JMO

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"1/2 of the number playoff appearances of the other 3 division teams have had during the 3-year timeframe.
Though not all Stefanski, CLE has had 9 out of the last 10 years with a losing record (worst in the NFL).
Of the bottom 8 AFC teams in regular season wins over the last 3-years, only CLE and NEP have not made a head coaching change the last 2 years.
Of the 8 AFC teams that have not made a coaching change the last 2 years (3 + years' experience), only CLE (Stefanski) has a losing record over the last 2-years while holding on to his job (MIA and LAC also have a better record but with 2-year HC's or less)."

None of these statements have a thing to do with being a good or bad coach.

What does 9 out of 10 losing records have to do with KS?
Two losing seasons playing with backup quarterbacks and a horrible defense?

No mention of the Browns first playoff win in many years. No mention of of the fact he won "Coach of the Year" his first season. No mention of the Browns record before KS arrived.

He is holding his job because the owner and GM know what goes on inside coaching.

You really do not know what kind of head coach KS is because you have never been near him as he coached. Can you compare coaching techniques of NFL head coaches? How would you know what good coaching really is?

What you do is try and find stats to try and convince others he is a bad coach. So you dig up any type of stat you can find to draw a conclusion that really is nothing more than empty non-relevant records.

Coaching records do Not always reflect the quality of coaching.

NFL history is filled with great coaching examples that had little to do with two seasons of a losing record.

bonefish #2017112 05/31/23 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by bonefish
"1/2 of the number playoff appearances of the other 3 division teams have had during the 3-year timeframe.
Though not all Stefanski, CLE has had 9 out of the last 10 years with a losing record (worst in the NFL).
Of the bottom 8 AFC teams in regular season wins over the last 3-years, only CLE and NEP have not made a head coaching change the last 2 years.
Of the 8 AFC teams that have not made a coaching change the last 2 years (3 + years' experience), only CLE (Stefanski) has a losing record over the last 2-years while holding on to his job (MIA and LAC also have a better record but with 2-year HC's or less)."

None of these statements have a thing to do with being a good or bad coach.

What does 9 out of 10 losing records have to do with KS?
Two losing seasons playing with backup quarterbacks and a horrible defense?

No mention of the Browns first playoff win in many years. No mention of of the fact he won "Coach of the Year" his first season. No mention of the Browns record before KS arrived.

He is holding his job because the owner and GM know what goes on inside coaching.

You really do not know what kind of head coach KS is because you have never been near him as he coached. Can you compare coaching techniques of NFL head coaches? How would you know what good coaching really is?

What you do is try and find stats to try and convince others he is a bad coach. So you dig up any type of stat you can find to draw a conclusion that really is nothing more than empty non-relevant records.

Coaching records do Not always reflect the quality of coaching.

NFL history is filled with great coaching examples that had little to do with two seasons of a losing record.

You're welcome to your opinion as is everyone else on this forum. My only rebuttal is and will always be - the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately." It actually has no bearing at all on the so-called opinionated quality of the coach. Many a superior quality head coach has lost their position for that exact reason. Just a few: the Browns fired Belichick (some would say the greatest of all time) and also Marty Schottenheimer who after a 10-6 season with 4 straight playoff appearances was bounced. The Bears fired Lovie Smith after posting a 9-year record of 81-63 with 3 playoff appearances, an NFC Championship/Super Bowl, and a final 3-year record of 39-19 with a final year record of 10-6 but missing the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row - bounced. Mike McCarthy was the HC of the GBP for 13 seasons compiling a 125-77-2 record with a Super Bowl Championship and 9 out of 13 years in the playoffs. However, after posting his first losing season in 9 years in 2017, the Packers fired McCarthy after another slow start in 2018 in week 13 after a 4-7-1 start - bounced.

Which takes me back to my original point, "what have you done for me lately" - 2 consecutive losing seasons and the worst record in the AFC North over the last 3-years is Stefanski's resume. As you can have your opinion - I have that same right and with Stefanski it "is what it is until it isn't."


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bonefish #2017114 05/31/23 12:56 PM
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Making the playoffs his first year as a HC and then going backwards in your record over the next two seasons certainly isn't a good sign. And as for your "back-up" reference, Brissett had the Browns O ranked in the top 10 in the NFL. As for having a horrible defense, Stefanski hired Joe Woods and kept him for three years. At some point the term "the buck stops here" applies. I'm not an anti Stefanski guy. But I'm also not trying to make every excuse in the book for his 2022 record.

If Brissett had played as poorly as many of us thought he would, I may agree with you. But that certainly didn't turn out to be the case.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #2017118 05/31/23 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
Making the playoffs his first year as a HC and then going backwards in your record over the next two seasons certainly isn't a good sign. And as for your "back-up" reference, Brissett had the Browns O ranked in the top 10 in the NFL. As for having a horrible defense, Stefanski hired Joe Woods and kept him for three years. At some point the term "the buck stops here" applies. I'm not an anti Stefanski guy. But I'm also not trying to make every excuse in the book for his 2022 record.

If Brissett had played as poorly as many of us thought he would, I may agree with you. But that certainly didn't turn out to be the case.

I may point out that while we see excuses for the Browns posted all over this board:

BAL has had Jackson miss 9 games over the last 2-years.
BAL lost their 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th string RB's in a single preseason.
PIT started a rookie in 2022 for 12 games and Trubisky for 5 games.
PIT lost the Defensive player of the year for 5-games in 2022.
CIN lost their elite QB for half a season in 2020.
CIN lost their #1 WR and offensive rookie of the year for 5 games in 2022.

Yet with that, every one of those teams have a better 3-year record than the Browns. Point is every team in the AFC North has had injuries and poor play - some teams can overcome those shortfalls.


Just "KICKING THAT CAN DOWN the ROAD"
steve0255 #2017121 05/31/23 02:03 PM
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You are making my point.

Good coaching that is recognized as such does not mean knee jerk reactions by FO always work.


bonefish #2017122 05/31/23 02:07 PM
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Agreed. That's because those teams, especially Pitts. and Balt. have a winning history and positive mentality. Cincy has recently developed one also. We can't win a game when we're up 14 points with a minute and a half left in the game. It hadn't been done in 20 years and we were the last team to do it. PATHETIC!!!!

PitDAWG #2017123 05/31/23 02:12 PM
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"But I'm also not trying to make every excuse in the book for his 2022 record."

Is it an excuse for a head coach beginning a season with a career backup quarterback for 11 games. Who plays his best under that head coach?

Then the last six games are played with a qb who has not played in two years. Then said coach ends with a 8-9 record.

So context does not matter? It is only making excuses?

The last playoff win for Tomlin was in 2017.

Did the Steelers decide he sucks as a head coach?

bonefish #2017126 05/31/23 02:28 PM
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Let me try to explain this again. That "back-up" had the Browns offense ranked in the top 10 in the NFL.

Browns have a top 5 offense including top 10 in passing

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2022/11/3/23439550/browns-dvoa-offense-nick-chubb-jacoby-brissett

Just repeating the word "back-up" over and over again doesn't change the reality of what actually transpired. I mean after all, you're the one claiming context matters and accusing me of the opposite. And BTW it was the Browns who chose to make watson the future, not me or you. They got what they asked for.

You also never addressed that Stefanski is the one who hired Woods and chose to stick with him. Certainly you must feel that was a mistake. Or no?

You also must have missed where I said I'm not anti Stefanski as well. Is selective reading your specialty? I think he needs to improve in some areas. I think people bend over backwards to make excuses for him. But he's a first time HC and with that comes the need for experience. Giving a first time HC the room and time to develop is a long term investment. I certainly feel Stefanski deserves another season to see how he will improve in his development.

Sadly it seems you feel some deep seated need to try and present Stefanski as perfect. He is no less human than the rest of us and as such there will always be positives and negatives. I believe there are both and you post like he must be some kind of god.

The Browns have shown they're going all in on watson. So I think this will be the year that decides Stefanski's future here. I hope all goes well for him. But if it doesn't, excuses won't cut it this time around.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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PitDAWG #2017133 05/31/23 03:04 PM
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So, let me explain this again. Jacoby was not a starting quarterback. He came to Cleveland as a backup.

He played the best of his career under KS.
"And BTW it was the Browns who chose to make watson the future, not me or you. They got what they asked for."

Is that relevant to KS and his ability to coach?

He did hire Woods. He also fired him. Is it unusual for coordinators to be hired and fired? Is that coaching?

I missed it. Did I state that you were anti-KS? I read that you said you were not.


"Sadly it seems you feel some deep seated need to try and present Stefanski as perfect."

Sadly is your feelings not mine.

You may have missed in other threads where I was critical of both KS and AB.

KS will begin his fourth year. He is a young head coach gaining experience. He has not been perfect and has admitted that.

You are the one throwing out the excuse label. Don't suffer before necessary or you suffer more than is necessary.

2023 has not yet begun.

bonefish #2017134 05/31/23 03:22 PM
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Really, you are trying to compare Tomlin?

Tomlin has been a HC for 16 years with the same team.

Tomlin is 163-93-2 .632 over those 16 years.

Tomlin has been to two Super Bowls and winning one.

Tomlin has been to the playoffs 10 of those 16 years (62.5%) including 2 of the last 3.

Tomlin has never had a losing season as a HC.

And yes, some were calling for Tomlin's head last year.

Stefanski is nowhere close to being a Mike Tomlin.


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It seems you pick and choose which way you lean depending on the topic. When people point out a 7-9 record you blamed it on the fact he had a backup QB. When it's pointed out to you how well that backup played you hail it as some sort of victory. So which is it? I think Stefanski did a great job of tooling the offense around Brissett's strengths. Setting things up where Brissett had the opportunity to use his strengths and lessening plays that would cause him to show his weaknesses. However, even with that said it really didn't prevent the Browns from a losing record even though it produced a top 10 offense.

Yes, after ignoring all the warning signs Stefnaski did fire Woods. Sadly that falls into the too little too late category. Once it was abundantly clear to everyone Woods needed to go, Stefanski could no longer ignore the obvious.

And it's true that the 2023 season hasn't been played yet although we see people claiming how well it will go. I made no inclination either way. I simply stated I think Stefanski's future with the Browns will hinge on how it goes. That doesn't suggest any type of future suffering.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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steve0255 #2017147 05/31/23 04:28 PM
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I thought it was all about what have you done lately?

PitDAWG #2017148 05/31/23 04:41 PM
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[/color]"I think Stefanski did a great job of tooling the offense around Brissett's strengths. Setting things up where Brissett had the opportunity to use his strengths and lessening plays that would cause him to show his weaknesses."

[color:#FFCC33]Is that not good coaching?

He hired Woods. He fired Woods. If you track the defense Woods seemed to improve in the second halves.

Maybe he should have fired him after 2021.

"So I think this will be the year that decides Stefanski's future here. I hope all goes well for him. But if it doesn't, excuses won't cut it this time around."

Excuses, excuses. The season has not been played "But" if he fails no excuses for him.

How about DW?

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