DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hopkins

I don't see signing Hopkins as likely but there is the history of success between he and watson in Houston having played together for watson's first three years as a pro. So it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility. During that time they combined for 264 completions for 3,343 yards and 25 touchdowns. They already brought in watsons former TE. And while I agree with you that I don't find it a likely scenario, I don't find it to be as far fetched as I've seen some suggesting.

Do we even have the cap space? I don't see this happening

We pick up money. I just don't see the point. I think we are pretty comfortable with what we have.

Cooper should catch near 100 balls. I expect Moore to catch around 80, DPJ maybe 50ish. Njoku is going to get 50. The numbers of Cooper and Moore might even out. I think Watson is going to love Moore the way Brady loved Edleman. Moore can shake a coverage.

I think Moore will have a good year. He has alot of traits
That make him a match-up issue.
DPJ will get his targets. But I see his numbers declining with Moore
In the lineup.
Bell gets alot of love for some reason. If he was as good as some
Think on here then the Browns would not have brought in
3 new faces at WR. Bell looked very average last year.
I didn't see much he did after the catch
Tillman will process as the season goes on.
Njoku and Akins will be a big part of the passing game

With all that said there is no room for Hopkins. All that talk about
Him and Watson having chemistry is hot air. That was 4 years ago.
He is available for a reason.

Just going by memory but I think Clowney and Johnson's salery's drop off. Clowney saves us nothing, but Johnson nets us about 9.75 million more in cap space.

If you waited for logic, you'd never win the division, and go on to the superbowl through the afc.
Logic? logic?
If they only used logic, they wouldn't have signed Watson for 230 million dollars guaranteed, when iirc, no other @uarterback contract had been fully guaranteed, at over I50 million in the NFL before.

YOU aBs OLUTELY BRING IN HOPKINS

Bell, and DPJ, with their 6 catches meaningful catches per year, and one score per month, are wayy overrated by the orange colored glasses blinding Browns fans on this board.

DAY ONE , Hopkins would be at worst, at worst the 4th best wr on your team,
at worst, behind Cooper, Moore, BOTH of whom he'd challenge for better than too
and Goodwyn, who he may be neck and neck with better than or challenge for better than too.

Bottom line to DT message board members = If He played Offensive line he'd totally be getting a ton of love and the consensus opinion would be not only would the want to sign him, but they Have to sign him.

if you could get the 4th best OL on your team, at this date on the calendar you'd JUMP at the chance,
but he doesn't play OL, so this message board is blinded by
it's hatred of offensive skill position players

and it's blindedness of players like DPJ and Harrison Bryant, who just b/c they hung around for 4 years on this Browns offense
that Browns fans think they're actually any good.

... further bottom line, it's like Mary K Cabot said, ' if D Watson says I really want Deandre Hopkins on the team, then Andrew berry makes an attempt to see how they can make that happen'
and the other reporter said, you at least make the phone call and show interest.

otherwhere they said, you don't neglect to show interest in D. H. just b/c DPJ's snap count might drop.

If he played OL you'd be all over the love for bringing him in, and by you I mean every regular on this board.
and
He could be the #I touchdown threat on your team, you don't pass that up, especially,
especially with a common sense look
at the Browns place in the afc, the last 4 years.

so Logic? ..mehh

I'm with you both on the "I don't see the point".

We have a lot of different weapons to use (Chubb/Ford on screens/outlets/etc, Njoku/Atkins, and our receivers). A couple of you already laid out the explaining for it.

I assume he wants to start or to play a lot of snaps. I also assume his salary will be pretty high as a few teams would be bidding for him. If it is 10+ million that doesn't make sense to me to sign. That money can be allocated to another position for a June cut, a camp cut or during the season if injuries thin a position. The other thing you could do is if everything is running smoothly - roll the money over to next year.


We have the reliable Cooper and two young starters in Moore and DPJ. If we were talking about a superstar then this conversation would be different, especially the +/- of wanting to try to sign them or not.
But it's not, I wouldn't want D-hop to start over Moore or DPJ. Moore needs as much playing time and touches to hopefully get growth out of him, especially since he's on a multi-year deal. DPJ keeps showing improvement every year. He's also cheap and on the last year of his deal. So you "hope" that he will even be more focused this year on trying to securing a big contract next year. Tillman is possibly your 4th receiver or Hall, and both need snaps. I thought Hall showed value last year as a rookie and would've been a little better if injuries didn't take away some of his playing time.

As for Berry and his FO laying out the future plans, I assume their hope is Tillman will replace DPJ if he shows the promise. If DPJ goes off and has a superstar year, then they try to resign him or tag him. My expectation would be resign him and either release or tell Cooper to take a big pay cut. Then it would be DPJ, Moore and Tillman as your starters.

The only thing I could see that would make sense is signing Dhop and trading DJP for a young solid different position player or for a next years draft pick. But that doesn't make sense b/c DJP has a cheap contract and has given solid output with room to possibly grow.


Edit: Also I know we are in a win now mode. But win now doesn't mean sign or trade for everything and anything out there. Berry has said in the past he wants to win with sustainability. So make those moves that will win now, BUT also if it's a higher price tag on someone make sure it goes with the lines of winning sustainability. Thinking about the now and future seasons is the logical way to go.

J/C I just dont see the reasoning to bring him in. He has Injury issues, has never been a speed guy and I dont think he is the player he once was, hence being released. I dont think we want or need another OBJ type of situation. I know he isnt OBJ but the optics are very similar. I think Cooper, Moore and DPJ are very solid. I am not giving up on David Bell after his freshmen year and our QB situation was whack last year, I think he could be much better this year. Marquis Goodwin and Tillman round out what could be a very productive WR room. The offense still runs through Chubb and out TE room looks to be more competitive. The only question this year is whether Kevin will allow AVP a little more input into the offense. Lets face it; Kevin goes into some slumps in the play calling category; THIS AREA concerns me more than a 3rd or 4th wideout. Go Browns

We have a 3% chance of signing hop

Ah, I meant to say Bell* not Hall.

I don't know if it is giving up but no doubt the Bell hype train isn't moving any longer. Just fans being fans I suppose.

I was never all that high on the pick, but wasn't down with it either. I still feel the same way. It will be interesting to see how the team works reps and ends up feeling about Tillman. Tillman and Bell seem to be somewhat similar receivers. Tillman is a little taller, but they seem to be fighting for the same role with the team.

I just don't know if the drafting of Tillman is an indictment on Bell or not? Maybe it is on DPJ. DPJ is in the last year of his contract. He has been good, but maybe not so good to make us want to sign him to a higher priced contract.

I think the drafting on Tillman was an excellent value pick where he was selected. To me it shows they are certainly trying to upgrade the WR position along with the signing of the FA's. I mean if they were content with just the FA's they had signed alone there would have been no need to draft Tillman. I think most of us know by the time you get to the third round there are multiple picks available at the order of the draft where you are selecting with very similar values.

I just think that some fans are so used to a subpar WR unit they've gotten to the point that they feel mediocre talent is good. The investment in watson has shown they are making the WR position a priority. I think the days are gone where this FO will take the "let's sit back and give this guy a few years to see if he develops" strategy as it pertains to the top 3 or four WR's on the roster. They have watson for four more years at this time and the time to wait on mediocre talent to develop isn't a luxury they can afford to continue to play at this juncture.

Would we have a better offense with Hopkins in the WR room...I think so. Sign him and trade DPJ for a 3rd? I'm not saying I would do that...but Hopkins should be better than DPJ and Tillman essentially is DPJ.

j/c:



Just an FYI

Not sure if Hopkins would be a good addition or not at this point. It's clear though that either our WR's (whomever is the #2 or #3) are either not getting any respect or are grossly overrated by the fans and the team. Offensively, entering the season with your receivers (based on last year's rankings) near the bottom at their position in the division much less the conference is worrisome. Maybe a proven commodity like Hopkins would be better than the continual influx of players with potential?

It is what it is until it isn't!

Here's a singular look at the current NFL WR2 Rankings
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=790002249150076&set=a.722879325862369&__cft__

AFC North Receiver PFF 2022 Rankings:

WR1
#10 Chase CIN 83.9
#15 Cooper CLE 81.2
# 52 Pickens PIT 68.8
#105 Bateman BAL 61.6

WR2
#20 Higgins CIN 78.4
#45 Johnson PIT 69.6
#99 Moore CLE 57.5
NR Flowers BAL Rookie

WR3
NR Beckham BAL Injured (this is subjective, but a healthy OBJ is still better than these other players)
#42 Boyd CIN 70.2
#65 Robinson PIT 65.8
#72 DPJ CLE 64.9


TE1
#3 Andrews BAL 80.7
#7 Freiermuth PIT 75.5
#9 Njoku CLE 73.7
#54 Smith CIN 56.4

TE2
#26 Likely BAL 65.0
#43 Bryant CLE 59.3
NR Sample CIN 52.3
NR Washington PIT Rookie

TE2
Jordan Atkins 72.4
#26 Likely BAL 65.0
NR Sample CIN 52.3
NR Washington PIT Rookie


I'd be consistent with the other NR players or at least his last rating from 2021 (67.8) in 2021. Plus, I'd put him as their current #1 WR over Bateman (#2) and Flowers (#3 as a rookie). But that's just me.

Inside DeAndre Hopkins’s Release, and Why He Had No Value to Teams
The former Cardinals and Texans receiver’s options might include taking less from either the Chiefs or Bills to continue his NFL career.

ALBERT BREER3 HOURS AGO

The DeAndre Hopkins situation is, first and foremost, a lesson in NFL economics. In the end, Arizona couldn’t get anything for the star receiver it made a blockbuster trade for three years ago—and that most certainly isn’t an indication that he can’t play anymore nor that he might not have value to another team.

It’s that he didn’t have value … at $19.45 million.

The Cardinals were never going to pay him that. Neither were the other 31 teams. So that left Arizona to put Hopkins on the trading block at the start of the offseason, and wait. And wait. And wait. The Cardinals gave other teams permission to talk to him and his representation (he technically doesn’t have an agent, but financial adviser Saint Omni speaks for him in negotiations). They kept taking cash off their asking price, and were even willing to buy a draft pick as part of it.

All that led to Friday’s release of Hopkins, putting the 11th-year receiver, who turns 31 in a week, on the market. My guess would be that the market bears something around half of what he would’ve made on his now terminated deal in 2023, with some incentives to get him closer to being whole. But at this juncture of the offseason, even getting there could be a challenge. Here’s a little more on what’s behind Hopkins, and potentially ahead for him, too.

• The Cardinals were giving any teams who wanted to talk to Hopkins permission to do so. Two teams that got such permission, the Chiefs and Bills, spoke to Hopkins and Omni, and those two were the only two that engaged Arizona in trade talks. So the interest in giving up a pick or two to get Hopkins was pretty tepid.

• Arizona’s initial asking price was a second-round pick and another asset, but by the end, it was willing to part with him for a lot less than that. And my sense is it’d have considered picking up a chunk of his salary (obviously the higher the pick, the more it might give) to get, say, a top-100 pick. But, again, there simply wasn’t interest in paying Hopkins top dollar and giving up a Day 2 draft pick for him.

• Hopkins’s camp tried to push Arizona to pick up more money, but there was nothing really compelling them to do so without a premium pick attached to the deal. This wasn’t like the Brandin Cooks or Allen Robinson trades, where the Texans and Rams, respectively, were dealing with guaranteed money, and picking some up meant getting to not pay the rest.

• Kansas City made progress toward a deal, but things went a little sideways when Odell Beckham Jr. got $15 million in base pay from Baltimore, making Hopkins feel like he should land at least that much, given that Beckham didn’t play last year. The Chiefs wound up giving free-agent left tackle Donovan Smith a deal structured similarly to the offer they made Hopkins, which will make it more difficult for Kansas City to circle back.

• The Bills, similarly, were willing to do a pay-for-play sort of deal loaded with incentives. My feeling is that it leaves them in the same place the Chiefs are with Hopkins—the only way it happens is if his price comes down.

And if you add all that up, I think we get one of two conclusions. Either Hopkins finds someone to pay up and takes the bag. Or, he takes less to chase a ring with Kansas City or Buffalo, with the idea that putting together a full, healthy 2023 could burnish his legacy and perhaps set up one last payday next March.

That said, there’s a healthy divide on exactly what Hopkins has left. I asked one veteran team executive what’s still there, and he answered, via text, “Not much. He can’t run anymore.” Another answer was pretty different—“He’s still a good player. Good route runner, big, physical target that can play a ball in the air. He’s still a threat.” And a third played both sides of it.

“Still great hands, he is not going to separate, not much of a deep threat, but very strong, and makes contested catches as well as anyone in the NFL,” the AFC exec said. “Does not love to practice—I can’t imagine that’ll get any better. And when things don’t go well, you’re always gonna be leery, All right, what kind of drama are we gonna get from this guy? When things are great, he’s great. When things go south, his true colors show a little bit.

“But he always shows up on game day. He’s gonna have to go to a team that knows what they’re getting. You cannot expect a perfect-attendance type of worker.”

That’s why, to me, it’s imperative that Hopkins goes to a place that a) won’t be overly reliant on him (either as a player or in team leadership) and b) has a strong locker room that won’t be pulled the wrong way if things turn sour. Remember, there’s a chance Hopkins is just where Julio Jones was two years ago, when Jones was traded from Atlanta to Tennessee. And if that’s the case, the team trading for Hopkins probably will have buyer’s remorse. There, of course, is also the chance that a change of scenery could bring the old Hopkins back.

What we know is by the end in Houston, Hopkins was banged up enough to where he barely practiced at all during the season—and that was three and a half years ago, and before he started missing time due to injury. While over his first eight NFL seasons, he played in 126 of 128 games (plus six of six playoff games), he’s missed 15 of 34 games (six due to a PED suspension) the past two years.

Generally, those trends don’t reverse themselves. Which is one reason why, exciting as the idea of acquiring Hopkins might sound for certain fan bases, interest has been very tepid from teams.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/30/inside-deandre-hopkins-release-options-bills-chiefs

These ^ are my thought exactly. If it's not crazy-$$$ to kick the tires, then why not? We certainly don't need another Dwayne Bowe situation.

Who knows, he may actually see Cleveland as the best opportunity for one year of "crumbs", as an audition for another two-three year payday. A WR corps with a little more flux and flex for him to showcase, with a QB in which he has a rapport.

It would have to be dirt cheap imo.

Rankings mean something.

It's mostly opinion based, but I think the Moore rating isn't based on a good enough sample. By the time it is over this season, I'd be shocked, or disappointed if he isn't around 30th...maybe better. He will wax that ranking this season.

I just don't see how we need another player like Hopkins on Offense when there are not enough footballs to go around. We averaged 65.65 offensive snaps last year. Hopkins would command about 10-15 targets a game. I just don't see it with all of the other players we already have on the team.

Chubb is going to get about 20-25 of those
Cooper is going to get about 10-14 a game
DPJ will get about 7-10
Moore will get about 7-10
Juke will get about 5-10
Ford/Felton will get about 5-7 a game
Our 4th and 5th WR/QB Run/Tick Plays/2nd TE/etc will get about 10-15 a game

I think our WR group is fine. I would pass on Hopkins and use the money on another LB or DT. JMO

Most of what I have read is that if we make a move on Hopkins we will essentially have to move on from Cooper. Being a monetary game. Even if it is a one year deal...the Signing bonus will strap us for next year. And frankly I don't think I make that tradeoff. Can Hopkins bring value to the WR room. Absolutely. Is it worth losing Cooper? Not in my book. And as others have put it...I am not so sure how many balls he would get if added to the team...outside of his chemistry with Watson, I think his negatives outweigh the positives...JMO

Peen, was it you who mentioned Bell and Tillman being the same player?(apologies if it wasn't) I can't agree with that. Bell is primarily a slot/possession receiver in the likes of say a Brian Brennan (yes showing my age). Or at least he could be. Tillman has size, more speed, more range and definitely an outside WR(more like a Langhorn)...I don't think they compare at all. Tillman is a rookie so I don't expect a lot from him this year. I do expect he will have a better rookie campaign than Bell had. First impressions have been very good IMO. Bell is going to be fighting for time on the field if he makes the 53. And with the new Kickoff Rules, I think Bell has a better chance to do that as Jakeem Grant's biggest asset was essentially stripped from him.

Moore I think is the obvious choice for biggest addition to the room. It gives Watson the Brandin Cooks, Will Fuller option with better hands and more versatility. Actually I look at Goodwin to be more like Cooks and Fuller as his speed is his main asset. I really don't expect much from Goodwin this year. But I really do think Moore is going to blossom with Watson at QB...Mostly a feeling but everything we have seen to this point has supported that feeling.

From the sound of how people are describing his loss of step/speed and ability to separate, I think the only way we bring him here is if it is in the role of a managed possession receiver and NOT looking for him to be a #1... but, that also brings the problem of having a LOT of upper-tier WRs and getting them all touches, satisfying egos and stat lines, and still keeping the offense all blended well enough to remain effective and not some herky-jerky thing that just looks like it's trying too hard and doing nothing well (like the offense last year as soon as Watson came in).

It's interesting to think about, and we have the money to do it, but I don't think it's the premier signing people think it is. He's a top-tier name whose prime has passed him. No doubt, his 80% is still better than a lot of other guys' 100%, but those other guys need to be developed and be a part of things.

I think someone will get him, for sure, but I don't think the money will be what everyone is thinking, and as a result, he will probably go to a team nobody is talking about that has more of a hole in their WR corps.

Is he based in Strongsville?