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mac #2018953 06/24/23 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mac
I'm not sure what the 'current' DEFCON LEVEL is...

...but it would not surprise me if the defcon level has been raised simply because there is a question concerning WHO IN RUSSIA has control of the nuclear button ...OR...could control of the nuclear button in Russia be in question..?

... WE DON'T KNOW..?...

...THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR ALL OF RUSSIA'S ENEMIES..!... THE RUSSIAN NUCLEAR THREAT!

European leaders convene emergency meetings in response to events in Russia

https://thehill.com/policy/internat...meetings-in-response-to-chaos-in-russia/

Last edited by northlima dawg; 06/24/23 10:28 AM.
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Originally Posted by Pdawg
Originally Posted by Clemdawg
I called this back in the early days.

Top Military Brass or Oligarchs would take him down/out.

Every regime that has ever been built upon this model fails in exactly the same way:
One man, alone- fighting off the rabid dogs he raised and trasined.


Except it isn’t the top brass or the Oligarchs. It’s a guy who is under indictment from us who is attacking and blaming the brass and Oligarchs. He is claiming to be on Purim’s side, that the brass is lying to Putin.

What is his endgame? I don’t think anyone really knows. I did read that it was the CIA who convinced him to do this and is giving him real time intel. If true, that might bode well for us. I want Putin gone. I hope we don’t get something worse in this mercenary.

Russia runs on deception and corruption. And the screws have really been tightened on the oligarchs. The oligarchs are tired of having their yachts seized, their bank accounts frozen. All they want to do is go to Monaco and play with models, and they can't.

Other things I am seeing around the interweb-

* Wagner had no issue taking the Southern Military Command Center in Rostov-

* Putin has ordered the march stopped-just before he hopped on a plane out of Moscow. There has been a couple air strikes on Wagner forces as they move. Wagner also has said that they have shot down a couple helicopters.

* There are defections from Russian soldiers to the Wagner group or Russian soldiers just leaving their post-

*-Russia is parking construction vehicles in the street to barricade the advance of troops north-They pushed them off the road and kept moving with no other resistance.

* I just saw a twitter post that there are people in the street coming up to Wagner soldiers in Rostov with food and bottled water. I am sure there are many Russian citizens that are totally pissed at putin for this war and taking their husbands, brothers and sons and lead them to slaughter

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Putin’s war is crumbling upon itself. Ukraine should take back the Crimea peninsula while Putin is distracted with insurrection in the fatherland.


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Originally Posted by PerfectSpiral
Putin’s war is crumbling upon itself. Ukraine should take back the Crimea peninsula while Putin is distracted with insurrection in the fatherland.

Absolutely.
But I still worry about what the caged rat will do when cornered

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Originally Posted by mgh888
[Linked Image from media.giphy.com]


Just to keep up with the trendy Meme thingy going on....
"JEWISH"



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Yevgeny Prigozhin just said that when this is over, there will be a new president of Russia. Interesting, definitely don't know if that is a good thing

Belarus president Lukashenko has fled to Turkey-
And it seems true that putin has fled Moscow.

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Are we witnessing the end of Russia under the control of Putin and the Russian nuclear threat..?




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mac #2018961 06/24/23 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mac
Are we witnessing the end of Russia under the control of Putin and the Russian nuclear threat..?

It's likely too early to tell if Putin will be deposed. Whoever replaces him will still have the nuclear arsenal at their disposal.

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Use the Jewish space lasers!!!


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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The worst possible thing Ukraine could have done, and did, was announce their spring counter offensive months in advance. Talk about letting your enemy see your hand. This battle between Putin and Prigozhin is a blessing Ukraine should be able to capitalize on. The timing of it as it unfolds seems rather odd. Is it some coincidence that this has occurred right in the middle of the Ukraine counter offensive? Russia has had enough trouble fighting its war with Ukraine without this conflict within their own ranks. Hopefully Ukraine can find a way to capitalize from it.


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Twitter is just crazy-hard to tell if stuff is real or from another region or another day

There are a couple live streams/creators on tik tok that are pretty good-lots of updates

Bekah
chad scott or cpsscott
aaron parnas

Bekah is doing a live stream right now of about 5 or 6 places-one is from Voronezh-google search says that the Russian military has bombed a Wagner munitions or fuel supply.

Also, from Aaron about a half hour ago-
Wagner is about 5 hours away from Moscow-I heard from other channels that on the road from Rostov to Moscow-police were giving Wagner group an escort. And in the Libettes region of Russia, they army switched sides to Wagner

European Union has activated its crisis response center.
Poland has placed its troops on high alert.
Latvia is not allowing any Russians to cross its border.
reports of prisoner riots in Russia.

Also from places on the interweb-

China has said that they are watching this very closely-And then they noted that Vladivostok in the eastern part of Russia is "historically" Chinese territory. what does that mean?
Supposedly Wagner group has been lying about the ammo shortage so that they could accumulate ammo for this moment.

Iran on telegram channel said that they will "help" prevent the fall of putin if it gets out of hand-

Putin asked their version of NATO-called CSTO for help and was told no

Fill up your car-oil is probably going up short term

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Ukraine is already re-capturing areas in Bakhmut because the Russians have pulled out-Very quiet with very little russian resistance

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I agree. The only reason I shoot Ukraine some bail is because their trying a counteroffensive from a hard defensive position, knowing that they they don’t want to actually fight these battles and kill their neighbor.

But still stupid strategy nonetheless.

And yea, Wagner group pretty much bailed them out. I dunno if the counteroffensive would’ve failed, but at best it was a stalemate. This coup changed things dramatically.

I didn’t think the coup was serious until Putin hopped on TV freaking FURIOUS and call them traitors. Not gonna lie, that put a big ass smile on my face.

So, Putin not only couldn’t take Ukraine who was fighting with US hand me downs, but made NATO stronger by adding Finland in, and soon Sweden. Probably gonna have Ukraine join as well, with possibly Moldova being a dark horse.

Thanks, I guess.


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Yea almost no resistance as well. I think Biden giving them another weapons package was either right place right time, or well-planned.

Either way, the pro Putin, anti-west losers in this country will be coming up with all kinds of whatabout and such for why their lord and savior keeps taking L after L


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Originally Posted by PerfectSpiral
Putin’s war is crumbling upon itself. Ukraine should take back the Crimea peninsula while Putin is distracted with insurrection in the fatherland.

We can hope. And we can hope that the next leader isn't as crazy or hell bent on disrupting the rest of the free world .... but not assuming or suggesting any such thing will happen.


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I mean…..we can literally walk in from Finland, Lithuania, and/or Ukraine.

If there was a way you can throw in Oil as one of the reasons to roll up in a country, this would be it.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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My thing is power vacuums. No matter or dumb or smart a plan to invade might be, the only way it’s beneficial is if the power vacuum problem is quickly addressed.

No puppets. No asking. Straight change/reform of the <insert country> constitution and government. Take full command of the gas and oil secto as THE way to pay off war reparations due to Russian aggression.

And all China can do is watch us do it and be mad. That’s it. Cause they just saw what happened when a country wants to go it alone with that rugged individualism BS. China can and will not counter with a military engagement because they are alone and surrounded.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Yes, on some colonizer stuff.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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I don't think "we" will play any part of it other than from a military equipment standpoint. If we didn't supply boots on the ground when Russia invaded Ukraine, I highly doubt we would do it now to take back Crimea. And I certainly hope we don't.


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Now there is a call for the people to overthrow the Lukashenko regime in Belarus

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Originally Posted by PitDAWG
I don't think "we" will play any part of it other than from a military equipment standpoint. If we didn't supply boots on the ground when Russia invaded Ukraine, I highly doubt we would do it now to take back Crimea. And I certainly hope we don't.

Depends on the condition of Putin at the time. Is he still in charge? Exiled? Captured?

If he’s exiled or captured, nato forces need to have boots on ground securing only infrastructure sites. Not marching through the cities or anything stupid like that.


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Originally Posted by northlima dawg
Now there is a call for the people to overthrow the Lukashenko regime in Belarus

I still haven’t heard a single reason as to why this country should exist. Redraw the borders. Gerrymander that crap.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Supposed deal brokered by pres of Belarus and Wagner has accepted and they very well may be turning around from their march towards Moscow

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Wagner head says group standing down after claims of deal

Prigozhin says his forces "are turning our columns around," amid claims of deal brokered by Lukashenko

Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin published a new audio recording Saturday claiming he was turning his forces around from a march toward Moscow.

“We turning our columns around and going back in the other direction toward our field camps, in accordance with the plan,” he said in a message on Telegram.

The announcement comes as the Belarusian government claimed President Alexander Lukashenko had reached a deal with Wagner boss to halt the march of his forces on Moscow.

"This morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin briefed his Belarusian counterpart on the situation in southern Russia with the private military company Wagner," the statement said. "The heads of state agreed on joint actions.

"As a follow-up to the agreements, the President of Belarus, having being additionally informed on the situation through his own channels, and in agreement with the President of Russia, held talks with the head of Wagner PMC Yevgeny Prigozhin," the statement continued. "Yevgeny Prigozhin accepted the proposal of the President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko to stop the movement of armed persons of the Wagner company on the territory of Russia and take further steps to de-escalate tensions."


CNN has reached to Prigozhin's office for comment.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-24-23/index.html


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This makes Putin look weak.


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Originally Posted by EveDawg
This makes Putin look weak.

"Hey, Vlad- remember that time when you ran and hid from Prigozhin and Zalenskyy didn't run and hide from you? Remember when you thought you'd be in Kyiv in less than a month? Yeah, we do."


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May not be done yet. After the truce, Putin said that Prigozhin is a traitor and he will come after him. Now, I just saw that Prigzohin says there was never a deal made. It also looks like the forward Wagner troops closest to Moscow have not moved for a while, like a few hours.

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Originally Posted by northlima dawg
May not be done yet. After the truce, Putin said that Prigozhin is a traitor and he will come after him. Now, I just saw that Prigzohin says there was never a deal made. It also looks like the forward Wagner troops closest to Moscow have not moved for a while, like a few hours.

Where are you seeing this?


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j/c:

There is something else going on here. I'm not sure what, but this whole situation is suspect on face value and we all know it.


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Yeah, this is really fishy. Coup leader has to know he is good as dead if he gives up.


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Originally Posted by EveDawg
Originally Posted by northlima dawg
May not be done yet. After the truce, Putin said that Prigozhin is a traitor and he will come after him. Now, I just saw that Prigzohin says there was never a deal made. It also looks like the forward Wagner troops closest to Moscow have not moved for a while, like a few hours.

Where are you seeing this?

Yes, this is extremely fishy-somebody is being set up.

I have been outside working in the yard for the last few hours. I will check and see what else is up.

Here is the quote from Prigozhin.

"I did not accept any proposals from the President of Belarus Lukashenka. Negotiations where held but were unsuccessful. Everything that is said in the media is a blatant lie."

as for the troop movement. I did see that they posted that they were leaving Rostov on Don-
A member of the Ukraine military I think on Telegram says that the were monitoring Wagner troop movement on satellite and they were still outside of Moscow.

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j/c

Daily news is fluid. Make of this what you will.



Russia says Wagner Group's leader will move to Belarus after his rebellious march challenged Putin

The greatest challenge to Russian President Vladimir Putin in his more than two decades in power fizzled out relatively peacefully Saturday after the rebellious mercenary commander who ordered his troops to march on Moscow abruptly reached a deal with the Kremlin to go into exile and sounded the retreat.

The dramatic if brief revolt shifted the landscape for the Kremlin and the 16-month-old war in Ukraine and prompted Russia to pull soldiers back from the battlefield to defend the capital, a stunning recognition of the threat posed by Wagner Group soldiers under the command of Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Under the deal announced by Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov, Prigozhin will go to neighboring Belarus and charges of mounting an armed rebellion will be dropped. The government said it also would not prosecute fighters who took part, while those who did not join in were to be offered contracts by the Defense Ministry.

Putin had vowed earlier to punish those behind the armed uprising led by his onetime protege, whose forces seized a key military facility in southern Russia before advancing on the capital. In a televised speech to the nation, he called the rebellion a “betrayal” and “treason.”

In allowing Prigozhin and his forces to go free, Peskov said, Putin’s “highest goal” was “to avoid bloodshed and internal confrontation with unpredictable results.”

Moscow had braced for the arrival of the Wagner forces by erecting checkpoints with armored vehicles and troops on the city’s southern edge. Red Square was shut down, and the mayor urged motorists to stay off some roads.

About 3,000 Chechen soldiers were pulled from fighting in Ukraine and rushed there early Saturday, state television in Chechnya reported, signaling the Kremlin’s desperation as the Wagner troops advanced to, according to Prigozhin, just 200 kilometers (120 miles) from Moscow.

But after the deal was struck, Prigozhin announced that he had decided to retreat to avoid “shedding Russian blood.” His troops were ordered back to their field camps in Ukraine, where they have been fighting alongside Russian regular soldiers.

Prigozhin has demanded the ouster of Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, long the target of his withering criticism for his conduct of the war in Ukraine. On Friday, he accused forces under Shoigu's command of attacking Wagner camps and killing “a huge number of our comrades.”

Prigozhin did not say whether the Kremlin had responded to his demand. Peskov said the issue could not have been discussed during the negotiations, which were conducted by the president of Belarus, and is the “exclusive prerogative of the commander in chief.”

If Putin were to agree to Shoigu’s ouster, it could be politically damaging for the president after he branded Prigozhin a backstabbing traitor.

Early Saturday, Prigozhin’s private army appeared to control the military headquarters in Rostov-on-Don, a city 660 miles (over 1,000 kilometers) south of Moscow, which runs Russian operations in Ukraine, Britain’s Ministry of Defense said.

A nighttime video from the city posted on Russian messaging app channels showed people cheering Wagner troops as they left Rostov-on-Don. Prigozhin was seen riding in one of the vehicles, and people greeted him and some ran to shake his hand as he lowered the window. The regional governor later said that all of the troops had left the city.

Wagner troops and equipment also were in Lipetsk province, about 360 kilometers (225 miles) south of Moscow.

Authorities declared a “counterterrorist regime” in Moscow and its surrounding region, enhancing security and restricting some movement. On the southern outskirts, troops erected checkpoints, arranged sandbags and set up machine guns. Crews dug up sections of highways to slow the march.

Moscow Mayor Sergei Sobyanin declared Monday a non-working day for most residents as part of the heightened security, a measure that remained in effect even after the retreat.

The dramatic developments came exactly 16 months after Russia launched its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Europe’s largest conflict since World War II, which has killed tens of thousands, displaced millions and reduced cities to rubble.

Ukrainians hoped the Russian infighting would create opportunities for their army to take back territory seized by Russian forces.

Ben Barry, senior fellow for land warfare at the International Institute for Strategic Studies, said that even with a deal, Putin’s position has probably been weakened and “these events will have been of great comfort to the Ukrainian government and the military.”

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said late Saturday, shortly before Prigozhin announced his retreat, that the march exposed weakness in the Kremlin and “showed all Russian bandits, mercenaries, oligarchs” that it is easy to capture Russian cities “and, probably, arsenals.”

Switching into Russian in his daily video address, Zelenskyy said “the man from the Kremlin” was “very afraid.” He repeated his calls for the West to supply Ukraine with F-16 fighter jets and ATACMS tactical ballistic missiles.

Prigozhin had vowed earlier that his fighters, whom he said number some 25,000, would not surrender because “we do not want the country to live on in corruption, deceit and bureaucracy.”

“Regarding the betrayal of the motherland, the president was deeply mistaken. We are patriots of our homeland,” he said in an audio message on his Telegram channel.

He posted video of himself at the military headquarters in Rostov-on-Don and claimed his forces had taken control of the airfield and other military facilities in the city without any deaths or even “a single gunshot.”

Russian media, however, reported that several helicopters and a military communications plane were downed by Wagner troops. The Kremlin referred a question about the losses to the Defense Ministry, which has not commented.

The short-lived rebellion came as Russia is “fighting the toughest battle for its future,” Putin said, with the West piling sanctions on Moscow and arming Ukraine.

“The entire military, economic and information machine of the West is waged against us,” Putin said.

State-controlled TV networks led their newscasts with Putin’s statement and reported the tense situation in Rostov-on-Don. Broadcasters also carried statements from top Russian officials and lawmakers voicing support for Putin, condemning Prigozhin and urging him to back down.

Chechen strongman Ramzan Kadyrov, who in the past has sided with Prigozhin in his criticisms of Russia’s military, also expressed support for Putin’s “every word.”

“The mutiny needs to be suppressed,” Kadyrov said.

Wagner troops have played a crucial role in the Ukraine war, capturing the eastern city of Bakhmut, an area where the bloodiest and longest battles have taken place. But Prigozhin has increasingly criticized the military brass, accusing it of incompetence and of starving his troops of munitions.

In announcing the rebellion, Prigozhin accused Russian forces of attacking the Wagner camps in Ukraine with rockets, helicopter gunships and artillery. He alleged that Gen. Valery Gerasimov, chief of the General Staff, ordered the attacks following a meeting with Shoigu in which they decided to destroy the military contractor.

The Defense Ministry denied attacking the camps.

The 62-year-old Prigozhin, a former convict, has longstanding ties to Putin and won lucrative Kremlin catering contracts that earned him the nickname “Putin’s chef.”

He gained attention in the U.S. when he and a dozen other Russian nationals were charged with operating a covert social media campaign aimed at fomenting discord ahead of Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential election victory. Wagner has sent military contractors to Libya, Syria, several African countries and eventually Ukraine.

The rebellion appeared likely to further hinder Moscow’s war effort in Ukraine, as Kyiv’s forces probed Russian defenses in the initial stages of a counteroffensive.

Orysia Lutsevych, the head of the Ukraine Forum at the Chatham House think tank in London, said the infighting could create confusion and potential division among Russian military forces.

“Russian troops in Ukraine may well now be operating in a vacuum, without clear military instructions, and doubts about whom to obey and follow,″ Lutsevych said. “This creates a unique and unprecedented military opportunity for the Ukrainian army.”

___

Associated Press writer Danica Kirka in London contributed.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/russian-mercenary-chief-called-rebellion-051225518.html


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Aye did you see Putin’s press conference addressing the Wagner group?

Lmfao, my guy look extra ticked off. He was calling them all sorts of traitors and acts of betrayal.

I love it.


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If Putin couldn’t hold Prigozhin at bay in the fatherland, how does he think Belarus will? Pgigozhin wants his own country to dictate.


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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ses-war-Wagner-kills-39-pilots-crew.html

Business as usual, Mr President? Vladimir Putin breaks his silence in 'pre-recorded' interview about 'stepping up efforts' in Ukraine after Prigozhin's failed coup 'inflicted worst daily air force losses of the war with 39 pilots and crew killed by Wagner'
He faces expectation to replace top war commanders or face new insurrection
Coup leader Prigozhin agreed to be based across the border in Belarus - for now
For the latest news and updates on the failed coup follow our live blog
By WILL STEWART and MIRIAM KUEPPER and NATASHA ANDERSON

PUBLISHED: 08:21 EDT, 25 June 2023 | UPDATED: 12:08 EDT, 25 June 2023

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Vladimir Putin has broken his silence about 'stepping up efforts' in Ukraine in pre-recorded interview that aired after he suffered his worst daily air force losses of the war.

The Russian president, on state television today, said he was 'confident' in his forces where he alleged are 'in a position to implement all the plans and tasks ahead of us'.

Putin claimed his optimism applied to Moscow's 'defence', 'special military operation', and the 'economy as a whole and its individual areas'. He also added that a meeting of the country's Security Council will still take place next week as planned.

His speech aired today after it was claimed that Wagner mercenary fighters killed 39 pilots and crew by downing strike helicopters and a military plane during Prigozhin's rebellion.

Putin is also believed to be facing the humbling expectation to replace his top two war commanders - close ally defence minister Sergei Shoigu and chief of the army staff general Valery Gerasmivov - or face new insurrection.

Coup leader Yevgeny Prigozhin, once a Putin loyalist, has agreed to be based across the border in Belarus - for now. Out of jail, and free to run his large mercenary army, he still poses an acute threat to the 70-year-old Russian president.

Russian President Vladimir Putin, on state television today, said he was 'confident' in his forces where he alleged are 'in a position to implement all the plans and tasks ahead of us'



The Wagner group claims to have shot down three Russian helicopters since its coup began



Putin is believed to have suffered grievous losses as he sought to halt the Wagner 'march of justice' against his corrupt regime towards Moscow as the Wagner Group reportedly killed pilots and crew members during their attempted 'military coup'.

The Wagner group claimed to have shot down multiple Russian helicopters during its assault. Shocking footage shows huge black plumes of smoke rising into the air on a field after what is claimed to be a helicopter was targeted and burst into flames.

Russian forces appeared to confirm three of their attack helicopters had been shot down by Wagner.

Putin has not publicly commented on the deal that was struck to apparently de-escalate the crisis.

State television released excerpts today of an interview in which he said he was giving top priority to the conflict in Ukraine and was in constant contact with the defence ministry.

However the interview appeared to have been recorded before the mutiny and he made no reference to Saturday's events.

State television also said Putin would attend a meeting of Russia's Security Council this coming week, without elaborating.

Western leaders had expressed concern over the turmoil in Russia, which has the world's largest nuclear arsenal.

Putin is also facing the humbling expectation to replace his top two war commanders - close ally defence minister Sergei Shoigu (right) and chief of the army staff general Valery Gerasmivov - or face new insurrection


A desperate quick fix deal saw Prigozhin's Wagner heavily armed force halt their march on Moscow in return for a deal that drops all treason charges against him and his men (pictured: Wagner fighters in Rostov-on-Don yesterday)

The Russians are reportedly seeking to cover-up the losses of up to 39 pilots and crew in a few hours.

They allegedly included some of Russia's leading air force crew members with one account saying 20-plus combat pilots were killed.

Putin is believed to have lost six helicopters - including three Mi-8 MTPRs specialising in electronic warfare - as well as a sophisticated Il-22 plane used to conduct battle plans at high altitude.

READ MORE: Humiliated Prigozhin is sent into exile in Belarus after aborting his Wagner mercenaries' march to Moscow at 11th hour - but his men are treated like heroes as they withdraw


A desperate quick fix deal saw Prigozhin's Wagner heavily armed force halt their march on Moscow in return for a deal that drops all treason charges against him and his men.

It avoided a potential Russian v Russian bloodbath at the gates of Moscow.

Yet Putin has never seemed so weak in almost a quarter of a century at the helm of Russia as president or premier.

Russia analysts said that the 70-year-old - who has served continuously as president or prime minister since 1999 - was wounded in the battle.

Garry Kasparov, the chess champion who has become one of the foremost leaders of the Russian democratic opposition, said Putin had been 'humiliated' by Prigozhin.

'The game ended with Putin's worst humiliation - a run for his life from Moscow when Prigozhin's army was hundreds of miles away,' he told CNN.

Kasparov added: 'Many of Putin's top officials ran for cover. A dictator relies on his aura of invincibility.'

Sergey Sanovich, Hoover Fellow at the Hoover Institution of Stanford University, who specializes in disinformation and autocracies, said Putin had never looked so weak.

He said needing Belarus's dictator, Alexander Lukashenko, to negotiate with Prigozhin on his behalf was a sign of how enfeebled he was.

'Prigozhin makes a daring move and gets away with it, potentially with additional gains to come,' said Sanovich.

'Lukashenko saves the day. Putin reduced to a bystander, complaining on TV and letting his top generals be humiliated.

'Never in a quarter century Putin looked so ineffectual and hapless.'

The Russians are today reportedly seeking to cover-up the losses of up to 39 pilots and crew in a few hours (pictured: Il-22)
They allegedly included some of Russia's leading air force crew members with one account saying 20-plus combat pilots were killed

Putin allegedly lost six helicopters - including three Mi-8 MTPRs specialising in electronic warfare - as well as a sophisticated Il-22 plane used to conduct battle plans at high altitude, it is believed

Out of jail, and free to run his large mercenary army, Prigozhin (left)still poses an acute threat to the 70-year-old Russian president (right)

Sanovich's view on the involvement of Lukashenko was shared by Michael McFaul, Barack Obama's advisor on Russia from 2009-11, who then became the U.S. ambassador to Moscow.

McFaul tweeted: 'Putin could not control a mercenary force that he created & run by his buddy. He had to rely on Lukashenko of all people to cut a deal with a guy he called just hours ago a traitor.

'These are signs of real weakness, not strength. What has weakened Putin's grip on power? His disastrous war in Ukraine.

'The longer the war continues, the weaker Putin's regime becomes. Those that want to avoid Russian state collapse (i.e. Xi) should be pushing Putin to end his war.'

READ MORE: What next for Putin? Kremlin 'faces deeply unstable situation' after Wagner rebellion 'exposed regime's weakness' - as Chechen leader slams 'arrogance' of Prigozhin who 'acted out of anger over failed business deals'

Among Putin's losses is apparently a Ilyushin-22, which appears to have been shot down by a Pantsir missile system secretly supplied to Wagner by Russia's own forces.

At first the aircraft was identified as an Il-18 turboprop plane, and it likely used such markings - but was in fact an Il-22 used for secretive command and control missions in wartime.

Ten crew were on board, according to Russian Channel One correspondent Irina Kuksenkova.

It is likely a 'high ranking general' and other top brass were on board, revealed former Soviet military tactician and politician Viktor Alksnis, now an analyst known as the Black Colonel.

But he indicated the death toll was almost certainly higher, amid reports that the Russian state media has been ordered to obscure the true figure.

'I assume that the total number of cabin crew and task force on board the Il-22 ranged from 15 to 20 people. They all died,' he posted.

Putin also lost a regular Mi-8, a Ka-52 strike helicopter and an Mi-35.

'As a result of the destruction of five helicopters and one aircraft by the Wagner rebels between 34 to 39 people were killed,' estimated Alksnis.

Some 19 of these were in the five downed helicopters, he made clear.

More damage was done in a day than the Ukrainians have managed in the war.

'It should be noted that our Aerospace Forces did not suffer such losses even in the most difficult days of the special military operation in Ukraine,' said the Black Colonel.

All the losses were caused by Russia's Wagner forces shooting down Russia's regular forces - yet under the terms of the patched-up peace deal no-one will be prosecuted. The bloody fiasco can only benefit Ukraine.


Among Putin's losses is apparently a Ilyushin-22, which appears to have been shot down by a Pantsir missile system secretly supplied to Wagner by Russia's own forces. At first the aircraft was identified as an Il-18 turboprop plane, and it likely used such markings - but was in fact an Il-22 used for secretive command and control missions in wartime


All the losses were caused by Russia's Wagner forces (some pictured in Rostov-on-Don yesterday) shooting down Russia's regular forces - yet under the terms of the patched-up peace deal no-one will be prosecuted

It became clear today that he had suffered grievous losses as he sought to halt the Wagner 'march of justice' against his corrupt regime towards Moscow

e hasty peace deal between Putin and Prigozhin - brokered by Belarus tyrant Alexander Lukashenko - the billionaire Wagner chief will pay compensation of almost half a million pounds to the families of the slain Russian airmen


By today, no details of the dead air crew were revealed and Moscow was apparently engaged in a campaign to keep their names secret (pictured: Red Square in Moscow, which was closed due to security reasons yesterday)

pictured) suffered his worst daily air force losses in the war as rebel Wagner fighters repeatedly hit his strike helicopters and a high-flying military plane suspected to be carrying a top general

As part of the hasty peace deal between Putin and Prigozhin - brokered by Belarus tyrant Alexander Lukashenko - the billionaire Wagner chief will pay compensation of almost half a million pounds to the families of the slain Russian airmen.

As recriminations sounded today, Telegram channel Fighterbomber - with almost 400,000 followers - demanded: 'Which idiot with big stars on his shoulder straps ordered a transfer of the Pantsir air defence system to an illegal armed group [Wagner], a gang…? Will this idiot go to a military tribunal?'

Putin and his top commanders 'gave birth to this monster [Prigozhin] and now they are trying to fight it'.

By today, no details of the dead air crew were revealed and Moscow was apparently engaged in a campaign to keep their names secret.

Hours after saying the coup leaders including Prigozhin would suffer 'inevitable punishment' he revealed that no-one would suffer sanctions over the insurrection.

'There was a higher goal: to avoid bloodshed, to avoid internal confrontation, to avoid clashes with unpredictable results,' said his spokesman Dmitry Peskov.

Highways used by tens of thousands of Wagner troops marching on Moscow yesterday remained closed today.

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j/c:

Man, that coup attempt was but quick! "Here today, gone later today."

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Originally Posted by 3rd_and_20
j/c:

Man, that coup attempt was but quick! "Here today, gone later today."

Maybe, maybe not.


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If the coup continues...

There are thousands of nuclear weapons in play.


Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
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Originally Posted by superbowldogg
If the coup continues...

There are thousands of nuclear weapons in play.


Those NUKES are the major concern for the US and Europe...

Might be best that Prigozhin's coup attempt failed...and Putin allowed Prigozhin to exit the scene. No telling what Prigo and his Wagner group might do if they could get control of Russia's/Putin's nukes.

Prigo is going to need a great escape plan if he expects to survive Putin's "hit squads"...Prigo might not want to book any rooms higher than the "ground floor"...

Controlling the Russian nukes is the main concern of the United States.




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Originally Posted by mac
Originally Posted by superbowldogg
If the coup continues...

There are thousands of nuclear weapons in play.


Those NUKES are the major concern for the US and Europe...

Might be best that Prigozhin's coup attempt failed...and Putin allowed Prigozhin to exit the scene. No telling what Prigo and his Wagner group might do if they could get control of Russia's/Putin's nukes.

Prigo is going to need a great escape plan if he expects to survive Putin's "hit squads"...Prigo might not want to book any rooms higher than the "ground floor"...

Controlling the Russian nukes is the main concern of the United States.

Everything I've read about this Prigozhin guy indicates he may be worse than Putin.. If that's even possible. Is this one of those "better the devil you know" kinda things?


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