Polensek tells 3News around 300 officers are currently eligible for retirement, with only 22 in the pipeline to replace them. That's on top of the department already being roughly 230 officers short of the more than 1,400 City Hall has budgeted for it. https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/l.../95-e062aff9-b170-4fb8-bba4-3446b0987af2
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
This may very well explain at least part of the problem. It's from May of last year......
'We have underpaid compared to other cities': Cleveland Division of Police still losing officers
City Council President Blaine Griffin says a new wave of officers will resign if the city doesn't boost pay.
Griffin is referring to the looming contract talks between the city and the police union, which is asking for a base pay increase and larger annual raises. He says without pay changes, more officers will leave.
"Other cities are poaching our officers on a regular basis," he added. "They come here and make better offers and give signing bonuses."
Just today, the Columbus Police Department was in town recruiting Cleveland officers, dangling far fatter paychecks. It's offering officers with less than five years of experience $67,000 annually, and those with five or more years on the force would be paid a yearly salary of nearly $90,000.
Cleveland pays rookies just $52,000 a year, and officers with more experience make on average $67,300, according to earlier police union statements and testimony before council.
"We have underpaid compared to other cities," Griffin said. "We have underpaid them for what we are asking them to do. I don't know anyone who disagrees with that."
Further discouraging officers in Cleveland and other big cities is the increasingly violent streets and the perception that public support has dropped after high-profile police shootings.
Cleveland faces another recruiting hurdle—Issue 24, an amendment to the city's charter backed by voters in November. It gives some department decisions and discipline of officers to a civilian board.
"We need to make sure we support our officers and we let them know that as a Cleveland City Council, we stand behind them and we stand behind them as the public," Griffin stated. "We appreciate their service, because morale is really down right now."
Cleveland hopes to boost police ranks this year. It's budgeted for 1,640 officers, but the recent recruiting struggles suggest the city will come up way short. Already 220-plus officers below the target, the men and women on the streets are overburdened and at times required to work extended shifts.
Since Jan. 1, 73 officers have left. Many of those just resigned, according to a city spreadsheet detailing departures through April 18. More than 300 officers are eligible for retirement this year, according to testimony during recent budget hearings.
A big pay increase for the police is not a given, the council president says, because Mayor Justin Bibb's budget spends more than it's taking in and relys on federal money to balance the budget (Council, however, signed off on the budget).
Griffin says the city is headed into tough financial times.
"I'm also huge on good government and making sure we don't make promises we can't deliver on," he noted.
Griffin also said he doesn't want to lay off hundreds of police officers because of financial problems, as Cleveland did in the early 2000s.
What "administrative agendas" are there that you claim are causing this? The fact that Cleveland can't get or keep enough cops because they pay well below many other cities due to the fact they can't afford to? Because that was your initial beef here.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
What "administrative agendas" are there that you claim are causing this? The fact that Cleveland can't get or keep enough cops because they pay well below many other cities due to the fact they can't afford to? Because that was your initial beef here.
What "administrative agendas" are there that you claim are causing this? The fact that Cleveland can't get or keep enough cops because they pay well below many other cities due to the fact they can't afford to? Because that was your initial beef here.
My cousin just left CPD a few weeks ago to work for a suburb. He said CPD has 400 officers in the last 2 years.
CPD is a complete disaster right now.
Bad pay & being completed handcuffed on what they are allowed and not allowed to do are major issues.
The only place I can think of that is worse is East Cleveland - I think they pay like 17-23/ hr to get shot it.
It’s National right wing policies that create these types of communities. You know by allowing any cray cray to own an AR. And allowing more guns on the street than there are people.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
It’s National right wing policies that create these types of communities. You know by allowing any cray cray to own an AR. And allowing more guns on the street than there are people.
This is the problem with the news and political bias... they both have agendas to make their followers sound stupid and make mountains out of molehills.
Actual facts: Handguns are the #1 weapon choice and account for about 50% of all murders. (6,368) Handguns account for 28x as many murders as all rifles (including the [fake] assault rifle category). knives account for almost 5x as many murders as rifles. human limbs account for almost 2x as many murders as rifles.
What "administrative agendas" are there that you claim are causing this? The fact that Cleveland can't get or keep enough cops because they pay well below many other cities due to the fact they can't afford to? Because that was your initial beef here.
My cousin just left CPD a few weeks ago to work for a suburb. He said CPD has 400 officers in the last 2 years.
CPD is a complete disaster right now.
Bad pay & being completed handcuffed on what they are allowed and not allowed to do are major issues.
The only place I can think of that is worse is East Cleveland - I think they pay like 17-23/ hr to get shot it.
Cleveland police never really got paid well but they increased pay 7% last year and the overall police budget by $6M this past April. The administration actively made the decision to put money elsewhere, cut the total # of officers on staff from last year AND they can't get anywhere near the ceiling of officers for their budget. The mayor cut police jobs unfulfilled and the force is having serious issues hiring officers, the latter of which the chief said he hasn't seen a hiring problem (of finding interested people) this bad in the 30+ years he has been on the force. The factors referenced in my earlier posts are a big part of the problem and it was warned of straight away. They were right.
As Councilman Polensek said: "It's not an issue about money; it's about recruitment," he asserted. "The money's there."
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Money is a part, but the support from government and local communities is more important. If they don't get that, money doesn't make a damn bit of difference.
Scenes like the one Pit posted make the news. None of the good things make the news.
The bottom line is anyone who thinks defunding police is a good idea are idiots of the greatest magnitude.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Bad pay & being completed handcuffed on what they are allowed and not allowed to do are major issues.
As we have often seen, what police think they should be allowed to do is often times things they shouldn't be doing.
Quote
The only place I can think of that is worse is East Cleveland - I think they pay like 17-23/ hr to get shot it.
And it's a terrible thing that police aren't being paid better. But then one must ask themselves, can Cleveland afford to pay more? Did you ever ask yourself why police salaries vary so much from place to place? Maybe it's the income a city gets from their tax base. A city like Nashville or Columbus can afford to pay more because due to their tax base. Columbus is a hub of tech and has a fairly high pay scale. Nashville is a huge tourist draw. Unlike many cities they are thriving in terms of income based on taxes.
Cities can only pay out according to what they bring in. Or is it your contention that they just don't want to pay their cops? And if so, what do you base that on?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
What "administrative agendas" are there that you claim are causing this? The fact that Cleveland can't get or keep enough cops because they pay well below many other cities due to the fact they can't afford to? Because that was your initial beef here.
Defund the police. Libtard policies.
If you removed libtard from your vocabulary, you would have nothing to post.
To paraphrase a statement made about Rudy, You speak with a noun, verb, and libtard.
I'd hate to be a cop today. I mean, they've always had to walk a bit of a tight rope, but now it's crazy. I mean, damn, when the Party of Law and Order don't like them, it's tough.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Scenes like the one Pit posted make the news. None of the good things make the news.
You're either lying through your teeth or you don't watch the news. I have no idea which one it is.
There are stories every day where cops help people, save lives, help communities. The problem with people such as yourself is you think only the good should be reported and people should ignore the bad.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Ohio officer fired after body cam video shows him release K-9 onto Black man with his hands up
An Ohio officer who earlier this month was captured on body camera footage releasing a K-9 police dog onto a suspect who had his hands up has been fired, officials said Wednesday.
Ryan Speakman, an officer for the Circleville Police Department, has been terminated, effective immediately, the department said in a statement.
"Speakman's actions during the review of his canine apprehension of suspect Jadarrius Rose on July 4 show that Officer Speakman did not meet the standards and expectations we hold for our police officers," the department said.
The Ohio Patrolmen's Benevolent Association said it filed a grievance on Speakman's behalf Tuesday seeking his reinstatement with back pay and restoration of any lost seniority. The grievance asserted he was fired "without just cause."
Circleville is located about 30 miles south of Columbus.
Recently released body camera footage showed Speakman releasing the K-9 onto the 23-year-old Rose despite commands from at least one Ohio State Highway Patrol trooper to stop the dog. The dog was released as Rose, who is Black, appeared to be surrendering after a chase.
Speakman had been placed on paid administrative leave as the department's Use of Force Review Board investigated the incident. The review board determined that the department's policy for the use of canines was followed in the apprehension and arrest, police said.
In addition, Shallow Creek Kennels Inc., the Pennsylvania-based police service dog training facility that trained the dog involved in the incident, affirmed that its training protocols were followed, according to police.
State troopers said they were attempting to inspect a semi-truck on U.S. Route 23 in Ohio when they noticed a missing rear mud flap. Rose, the truck's driver, didn't pull over, leading to a pursuit.
Eventually, Rose did stop, but when officers exited their vehicles with guns drawn, he pulled away, tearing his left tire by speeding through a spike strip, effectively ending the chase.
Body cam footage showed Rose then exiting the vehicle and seemingly complying with officers' instructions, with his hands up. A state trooper can be heard telling the local Circleville police not to release their K-9 onto Rose, saying, "Do not release the dog with his hands up! Do not release the dog with his hands up!"
Despite at least one warning, an officer, later identified as Speakman, released the dog and it bit Rose, holding its grip for over 30 seconds while Rose screamed for officers to intervene.
Rose was later jailed for three days before being released.
On Tuesday, Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine called the incident "a lesson, a wake-up call to everyone that police training in the state of Ohio is not equal."
"Our big police departments, our big cities, certainly Ohio State Highway Patrol, they're excellently trained," DeWine told reporters. "When you get to smaller departments, they may not have the resources to have that training that's needed."
Circleville police addressed the governor's comments Wednesday, saying that "while we certainly respect Gov. DeWine's views and are always ready to discuss how to improve police training, Circleville's canine teams of dogs and officers are trained and certified to meet current Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission-recognized standards."
It seems as though at least to this point the incident is being addressed quickly which is what needs to be done to help restore people's trust in the police.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Scenes like the one Pit posted make the news. None of the good things make the news.
You're either lying through your teeth or you don't watch the news. I have no idea which one it is.
There are stories every day where cops help people, save lives, help communities. The problem with people such as yourself is you think only the good should be reported and people should ignore the bad.
The problem with people like you is you only report the bad until the good supports your argument. Then you turn an argument inside-out when it is you that only reports one side.
Scenes like the one Pit posted make the news. None of the good things make the news.
You're either lying through your teeth or you don't watch the news. I have no idea which one it is.
There are stories every day where cops help people, save lives, help communities. The problem with people such as yourself is you think only the good should be reported and people should ignore the bad.
The problem with people like you is you only report the bad until the good supports your argument. Then you turn an argument inside-out when it is you that only reports one side.
I was commenting on your comment about him... not the media. Nice try though.
"Reported", when responding to him was concerning his comment about the news media. You diverted comments about how the media reports about the police into something all together different. For future reference I'm not the media. I'm not the one who made some crazy comment that the media only reports bad things about the police. Once again, I'm not the media and I'm not the one making the false claim that the media doesn't report on positive stories about the police. Nice try though.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
View it as a recruiting problem. Find out why they aren't applying and address those problems.
Is it pay? They can do something about that by offering signing bonus money or higher pay.
Is it location? Nothing can be done.....We ain't moving the city to Arizona
Is it safety and/or Training? Can and should be addressed..
Would love to hear what the problems are.
Maybe people don't want to walk that tight rope you talked about in your previous post. I mentioned it in my earlier post. I think support is the big problem. They are kind of in a damned you do position or damned you don't. It's hard to work in a situation where it is hard to win.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Scenes like the one Pit posted make the news. None of the good things make the news.
You're either lying through your teeth or you don't watch the news. I have no idea which one it is.
There are stories every day where cops help people, save lives, help communities. The problem with people such as yourself is you think only the good should be reported and people should ignore the bad.
I was commenting more on a national scale. No doubt local news throws up bits here and there. As for what I think, you are way off base.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
View it as a recruiting problem. Find out why they aren't applying and address those problems.
Is it pay? They can do something about that by offering signing bonus money or higher pay.
Is it location? Nothing can be done.....We ain't moving the city to Arizona
Is it safety and/or Training? Can and should be addressed..
Would love to hear what the problems are.
Maybe people don't want to walk that tight rope you talked about in your previous post. I mentioned it in my earlier post. I think support is the big problem. They are kind of in a damned you do position or damned you don't. It's hard to work in a situation where it is hard to win.
Support has got to be a true problem. No respect for police anymore. I'm not sure what can be done about that. You do have cops that are just "Bad" at being cops. Those give the good cop a bad name. If this were a company I was in charge of, I'd set out to weed out those bad apples and replace them with better humans. Not sure that's even practical, but that would be my attempt.
I'd also employ more technology.
But, thats a discussion for another day.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
It contains all frequencies found in the spectrum of sounds you can hear in equal parts. It's often called “broadband noise.” White noise uses a mix of sound frequencies to create a static-like sound. It can be intense and high-pitched, like a fan, air conditioner, or a vacuum.Jul 12, 2022
But being a snowflake is becoming more and more common among people such as yourself.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
From what we’ve seen in the past, the good cops step up to protect the bad cops. And the bad cop insurance pays for their legal fees to stay out of jail, and keep their bad cop jobs. Rinse and repeat.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
What I think you're missing here is that the initial event itself is the beginning of the story and not the story in and of itself. The events are horrific in and of themselves, but far beyond that is the aftermath of the event. That's why we see so much attention brought to things such as these.
Often times what we have seen are police departments refusing to put out the body cam videos of officers until they are forced to. Then when they do, they often attempt to only show the most favorable footage in support of the officer. Afterwords they refuse to fire the officer. Many times the officer just moves on to another police force. Such actions which were very common place and still are in many areas of the country is what the attention is for. People are tired of watching things like this dismissed, covered up and left unpunished. I'm not sure why people don't get that.
In this case, at least to this point, we've seen the very opposite from the Circleville police. They released the body cam footage right away. They fired the officer in very short order. They have given an example of the right way to handle a situation such as this after we've seen it handled the wrong way so many times before.
Some people may not like the media coverage of such events. But without it we would never see or know how the police, police themselves. And as much as it seems to offend some of you, everyone needs to know that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
It contains all frequencies found in the spectrum of sounds you can hear in equal parts. It's often called “broadband noise.” White noise uses a mix of sound frequencies to create a static-like sound. It can be intense and high-pitched, like a fan, air conditioner, or a vacuum.Jul 12, 2022
But being a snowflake is becoming more and more common among people such as yourself.
NO. CRAP. It was a joke. Didn't think I needed purple for that one. I'll make a mental note.
Nah, it's okay. It's hard to know someone's intent with the written word. There's no facial expressions or the inflection of the voice to help you make that determination. It's not uncommon at all for that to happen and I don't really consider it the fault of either side.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
As for #1 I don't think most who enter the police force care about "what the left has to say".
As for #4 I guess if they're buying into the rhetoric that may be true but if one looks at the facts it's false......
Despite 'defunding' claims, police funding has increased in many U.S. cities
Leaders across the country have blamed the rise in crime on the "defund the police" movement. In most places, it never happened.
In Los Angeles, the county sheriff says local residents are in danger because "defunding has consequences," even though his agency's budget is up more than $250 million.
Sheriff Alex Villanueva is not alone in suggesting to voters that crime is up because Democrats defunded police agencies after nationwide protests of the 2020 murder of George Floyd by a Minneapolis police officer.
Politicians, pundits and police leaders across the country are repeating the idea as they address concerns about crime heading toward Election Day.
The truth is, in many communities, defunding never happened.
ABC Owned Television Stations examined the budgets of more than 100 cities and counties and found 83% are spending at least 2% more on police in 2022 than in 2019.
I certainly agree with all of the others however. But I will say a lot of those candidates may actually believe the "defund the police" rhetoric because they believe what they hear rather than looking at the facts. So to that degree it may very well have an impact.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I think your last statement says it all. People do buy into the rhetoric. Part of the reason your nuts and bolts explanation of "defund" doesn't always pierce the narrative that's being sold.
This, along with a lot of things over the past few years, are the result of a perfect storm. Boomers retiring, COVID accelerating that mass exodus, low moral, not great pay, public scrutiny, the ACAB narrative, etc, etc... they all play a role. And let's be blunt -- it's always a dangerous job and many times pretty much thankless.
Looking forward to Clem's podcast. Y'all have a great weekend.
From what we’ve seen in the past, the good cops step up to protect the bad cops. And the bad cop insurance pays for their legal fees to stay out of jail, and keep their bad cop jobs. Rinse and repeat.
I hear ya, but that has got to stop.. Not sure that's even possible....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
It is often times a thankless job. I certainly don't envy them. As we've seen, as sad as it is, some of the things we have witnessed make public scrutiny needed sometimes. But just like anything else that's often overdone. As a public servant accountability is part of the job but I would hate being held under the public microscope. The risk verses reward factor isn't balanced and risking your life deserves more rewards.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
This was a timely drop into my podcatcher. It's an exploration of police/public dynamics.
The lecturer is author Malcolm Gladwell, always good for a novel, unique p.o.v. on everyday subjects. Informative and educational
I think this lecture could spark some lively discussion, should other Dawgs decide to listen.
Click here/click the teal-colored playa, center of the page.
Good listening, clem
Good stuff, Dawg.
I love a speaker that can cover that much ground without making your head spin. One point to the next in a flowchart-like fashion, always coming back to the framework of the conversation. Really makes you think. This confirms a lot of what I've been preaching for well over a decade now... the way narratives are formed, given more and more 'credence', and perpetuated as some absolute be all/end all to the conversation at hand.
What I never considered was the four categories that police have always fallen into... Excellence Absence Incompetence Corruptness
Crazy that those were basically all rooted in 'entertainment'. Also crazy that they all had regions (north, south, east and west).
I think he makes a lot of sense with the statement about a bad teacher... When we find one, we general make the rather easy and quick judgment that the teacher needs to be removed and replaced with one that is competent. With a cop, we immediately resort to our preordained categories and scream to defund the police.
"Cultural narratives don't just reflect those groups, they also start to define those groups." The dangerous part of human psychology is how quick we are to embrace these narratives.
At the end of the day, we need to start to repair the relationship between police and public. It may never reach his recital of the phrase "the public are the police and the police are the public" (can't remember to whom that was attributed), but it needs to move back towards the center in the worst way... before it's too late.
If I knew I'd be faced with the moral quandary of what to do about a group of kids with molotov cocktails, I probably wouldn't sign up to be a cop, either.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Considering how the public school system is sorely underfunded and you basically need to have millionaire parents to attend college or go into debt for life if you qualify for a school loan. What could possibly go wrong? Life is for the rich and the rest can eat cake. The fix is ignored because it costs money. And you know how the rich hate paying their fair share of taxes.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Care to go into more detail about "the fix?" I'm genuinely curious about what you have in mind.
I don't think simply throwing money at the problems is enough. (And I don't think you believe that, either, if you stop to think about it.) I think we need systemic changes at fundamental levels of our educational, economic, and governmental systems.
Sadly, those that have money (and/or are being siphoned/"contributed" money) are the ones "writing the rules." Furthermore, the systems in place are benefitting them.
Unfortunately, as the (political/corporate) elite hoard more assets, they are able to "share" more of their scraps and "appease" the masses. But, it's never more than scraps and never anything that noticeably affects the lifestyle of the elite.
Fair share of taxes sounds great, but the corrupt system would still be "distributing" (more like using the taxes in ways that allegedly help the people, but ultimately always entrench their own power) that money.
We need to figure out how to more equitably distribute wealth before it gets to the government. When even two parent households have both adults working (more than) full-time jobs to barely scrape by financially, parenting is nigh impossible.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The fixes are funding. Funding the schools by paying teachers more to teach our future generations. Teacher and professor wages should be inline with a doctors wage. And really the same goes for Police, Firefighters and first responders. They all protect and teach our future.
How to fund them ….federal taxes plain and simple. You want to make American great again we better start investing in our future.
And is our richest millionaires and billionaires making millions upon billions and not paying a dime of taxes while moving those funds overseas, is that the corruption you’re talking about? Or are you suggesting federal funds are presently being redirected illegally by a particular state’s government? Nevertheless both are fixable.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
I don't think a change in how much we pay someone to teach will have that great of an effect unless we also change what/how we "teach".
For example, I'm not sure that "teaching" students that they should give away their money to someone else to solve their problems is a good idea. Especially when those people receiving the money have repeatedly shown their inability to solve said problems.
We need to somehow change the focus of our educational system from telling kids what to think to rather teaching them ways of thinking and the associated pros and cons or maybe focusing more on encouraging them to simply think about the future they want to have and developing plans (/helping them develop plans) to get them there. As is, we're basically wiring kids' brains (reinforcing patterns) to accept what they're told. Then we're wondering why they accept the "loudest" voices they hear.
The actions of billionaires with their money are a facet of the problem, but I'm more concerned with the system that allows their billions to influence policy, or at the least influence the people that set said policy. I'm also concerned with an economic system that allows them to amass said billions in the first place.
Capitalism is great in theory. But due to economies of scale, it is effectively impossible for individuals to compete with existing entities in a multitude of (practically every) areas. Figuring out how to transition from individual (/"corporate") to employee-owned "infrastructure" might be a start to leveling the playing field. Or perhaps requiring corporations to give employees equity in said corporation and setting caps and minimums on the percentages of that equity.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I think the perception that our education system is somehow programming our children what to think as described below is pretty much just that, a misguided perception.
Quote
For example, I'm not sure that "teaching" students that they should give away their money to someone else to solve their problems is a good idea. Especially when those people receiving the money have repeatedly shown their inability to solve said problems.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
We can ponder these issues forever or tackle them head on. It all comes down to funding and the only way out is federal taxes. Teachers making less than 100k and being forced to buy their students supply’s and worries about a mass shooter, who wants that job? Just like a cop making a pittance of a salary to be shot at. You said it yourself..no thanks. Where do you suggest the funds will come from? You know, since the police, and public school systems alike are extremely underfunded.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
I think the perception that our education system is somehow programming our children what to think as described below is pretty much just that, a misguided perception.
Quote
For example, I'm not sure that "teaching" students that they should give away their money to someone else to solve their problems is a good idea. Especially when those people receiving the money have repeatedly shown their inability to solve said problems.
Hmmmmmmm... Let me put it a different way. I believe the current system places too much emphasis on the what, and not enough on the how and why. I'm not a fan of the multiple choice approach to education. It gets people accustomed to the idea that these are your choices and you have to pick one. It stifles creativity and innovation. It may get you to the right answer in a specific context, but it doesn't really do much of anything to help you solve other problems in other contexts. It conditions you to expect to be given the right answer by someone else and then to simply be able to give it back in many instances, particularly in lower levels of education when children's brains are most malleable and are establishing patterns.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
We can ponder these issues forever or tackle them head on. It all comes down to funding and the only way out is federal taxes. Teachers making less than 100k and being forced to buy their students supply’s and worries about a mass shooter, who wants that job? Just like a cop making a pittance of a salary to be shot at. You said it yourself..no thanks. Where do you suggest the funds will come from? You know, since the police, and public school systems alike are extremely underfunded.
...I don't see throwing more money without addressing underlying issues as tackling them head on.
I'd like to see more money staying in communities in the first place, and those communities then being able to invest in there own local systems in both time and money because they can actually afford to.
More levels of bureaucracy and separation rarely lead to better results at a far removed point of interest.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
But that in and of itself creates yet another issue we are already seeing. What keeping those funds in the community and basing school spending on "what they can actually afford to" creates a huge discrepancy in educational funding from district to district. To make education for our children fair and give the next generation a great education across the board, you can't have some upper middle class district whose tax base is huge such a huge advantage in funding over poorer neighborhoods with far less revenue to fund their education system.
Well I suppose you can but.....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Police officer Ricky Anderson charged with murder for shooting Black man in his bed
Ricky Anderson has been charged for the fatal shooting of Donovan Lewis.
Former Columbus, Ohio, police officer Ricky Anderson has been indicted on charges of murder and reckless homicide for the shooting of a Black man last year.
Anderson shot and killed 20-year-old Donovan Lewis in August 2022 during a search warrant while he was unarmed and in bed.
Body camera footage was released of the encounter last September and Anderson, a 30-year veteran of the Columbus Police Department, appears to open fire almost immediately after police open the bedroom door to where Lewis was sleeping. He later died at a hospital.
Anderson retired in bad standing months after the shooting.
"We are relieved that a grand jury concluded what we've known all along: Officer Ricky Anderson broke the law when he shot and killed an unarmed Donovan Lewis as he laid in his bed," the attorneys for Rebecca Duran, Lewis' mother, said in a statement Friday. "CPD bodycam video showed this clearly and nothing has changed in almost a year. Although Mr. Lewis' family is pleased that his killer will soon face a jury of his peers, they are incredibly disappointed that it took so long to come to this conclusion in the first place."
Police officers were executing a warrant on Lewis' home to arrest him on three separate charges: domestic violence, assault and improper handling of a firearm.
Mark Collins, the attorney for Anderson, said in a statement last September, "When we analyze police-involved shootings, we must look to the totality of the circumstances, and we are expressly forbidden from using 20/20 hindsight, because unlike all of us, officers are not afforded the luxury of armchair reflection when they are faced with rapidly evolving, volatile encounters in dangerous situations."
Lewis' mother said she was "grateful" for the indictment but that she is trying to trust the process.
"I'm doing my best to keep it together day by day," Duran said at a press event on Friday with her attorneys and Tariq Stewart, Lewis' brother. "Bottom line is he should still be here and I'm going to be grieving that for the rest of my life."
Rex Elliott, one of her attorneys, said he was also grateful for the charges but criticized what he called an "unreasonable" amount of time to get to them.
"The reality is that there is a different justice system for citizens and there's a different justice system for police officers," Elliott said at the press event. "This never should have taken this long."
"They want people to become numb to what happened, and we are not numb to what happened," he continued, adding that he is "confident" Anderson will be convicted and "held accountable for what he did."
Lewis' family filed a civil suit against Anderson, as well as four other officers involved in the raid, in February.
According to the complaint, Anderson had a total of 58 complaints against him over the years, including use of force complaints, and has also been reprimanded for sexual harassment while on the job.
"As prosecutors pursue Mr. Anderson in the criminal case, we will continue to fight for justice and accountability in our civil case," the lawyers for Duran said Friday. "Our hope is that no other parent has to bury their child as the result of a reckless act by a member of law enforcement."
But that in and of itself creates yet another issue we are already seeing. What keeping those funds in the community and basing school spending on "what they can actually afford to" creates a huge discrepancy in educational funding from district to district. To make education for our children fair and give the next generation a great education across the board, you can't have some upper middle class district whose tax base is huge such a huge advantage in funding over poorer neighborhoods with far less revenue to fund their education system.
Well I suppose you can but.....
That's definitely a consideration, and I wouldn't want the locals being the sole source of funding. I just want them more involved and invested in the process or at least able to be. Throwing money at the system wouldn't do that.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I certainly agree with you that money alone isn't the answer. The problem with them being "more involved" otherwise leads to what I think we're seeing now which I don't think is good. I'm all for giving states and local government more power to govern themselves but when it comes to education, it seems in order for every child to get a good education we need to remove the ability of people within the community to dictate policies in education that involve their religious or political views dictate the curriculum. It's getting to the point that depending on where you go to school determines which version of history is being taught. I find that to be at least somewhat disturbing.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
So you’re not going to answer my questions. Got it. You’ll never be able to tackle these issues without substantial funding. The problem is nobody is throwing money at teachers or the police as you say. So we don’t know what would happen do we?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
You are correct that we don't know. But what I think we can be pretty certain of is that if the education process itself is flawed it will take more than money to fix it. And I certainly do not believe that there is nearly enough attention paid to developing students critical thinking ability. And if in the future we expect future generations to solve problems, that should be a foundational point of our education system.
I'm not disagreeing with you that both teachers and police need higher pay. But in both cases a foundational change in both systems is needed before they can ever be fixed. It's not a one or the other proposition. It's culmination of both.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Well let’s get to it. Lol. Everything is fixable. It’s always a push back to just say “Just throwing money” at this or that doesn't help. Because in many cases it has. Remember the stimulus checks we all got?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
If you call putting a band aid on a bullet wound "fixing it". The stimulus checks as a band aid helped, but there were economic consequences from it later. It was needed at the time and I wasn't against them. Many American families needed them badly. But if you don't think the bill came due and that it was one of the reasons that helped lead to an economic downturn later I think you might be mistaken.
Just like the rent abatement program. Now the rent is coming due and many of those who used the program have no way of making up for it. The band aid worked..... for a minute. Now the bullet wound is bleeding so badly they can't stop the flow of blood.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I certainly agree with you that money alone isn't the answer. The problem with them being "more involved" otherwise leads to what I think we're seeing now which I don't think is good. I'm all for giving states and local government more power to govern themselves but when it comes to education, it seems in order for every child to get a good education we need to remove the ability of people within the community to dictate policies in education that involve their religious or political views dictate the curriculum. It's getting to the point that depending on where you go to school determines which version of history is being taught. I find that to be at least somewhat disturbing.
I get where you're coming from, but religious and political views are "whats." Obviously, there would have to be some kind of standards, and as I said before, ideally the "curricular" focus would be on hows and whys rather than whats.
It's not that I want parents setting curriculum as that I want them to more easily be able to be engaged with their kids' academic lives. To have the time (to be able to afford the time) to volunteer to help out, that sort of thing.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
So you’re not going to answer my questions. Got it. You’ll never be able to tackle these issues without substantial funding. The problem is nobody is throwing money at teachers or the police as you say. So we don’t know what would happen do we?
Which question?
Who wants to be teachers? You couldn't pay me enough to work within the current constraints. The people who would teach if they were paid exorbitantly, if they had to operate within the current system, probably aren't people that I would want teaching my hypothetical kids.
Where do I suggest the funds come from? I suggest that it doesn't matter where they come from if what they're buying with it is wrong.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The real problem is the party of no won’t even let us put a band aid on any issue.
I think the problem is more along the lines that buying chrome plated band aids won't do anything for herpes, but people think it is a good idea to waste money on them anyways.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I love a speaker that can cover that much ground without making your head spin. One point to the next in a flowchart-like fashion, always coming back to the framework of the conversation. Really makes you think. This confirms a lot of what I've been preaching for well over a decade now... the way narratives are formed, given more and more 'credence', and perpetuated as some absolute be all/end all to the conversation at hand.
What I never considered was the four categories that police have always fallen into... Excellence Absence Incompetence Corruptness
Crazy that those were basically all rooted in 'entertainment'. Also crazy that they all had regions (north, south, east and west).
I think he makes a lot of sense with the statement about a bad teacher... When we find one, we general make the rather easy and quick judgment that the teacher needs to be removed and replaced with one that is competent. With a cop, we immediately resort to our preordained categories and scream to defund the police.
"Cultural narratives don't just reflect those groups, they also start to define those groups." The dangerous part of human psychology is how quick we are to embrace these narratives.
At the end of the day, we need to start to repair the relationship between police and public. It may never reach his recital of the phrase "the public are the police and the police are the public" (can't remember to whom that was attributed), but it needs to move back towards the center in the worst way... before it's too late.
I thought you might appreciate the lecture and Malcolm's unique approach. Dude sometimes makes me cheer like the Browns just put one over the goal line; sometimes, he just p's me off- but he always provokes thought. I urge you to read some of his books. "Outliers" was the book that first grabbed me and pulled me in.
The 'entertainment' aspect made total sense to me. As sophisticated as we think ourselves to be, we still develop our culture through the tales we tell ourselves. And what are those tales, but a reflection of who we are at the time of telling?
I think his 'Cardinal Points' framing was convenient and brilliant. It was extremely clever (and imo, juuust a little bit manipulative) that he used the stereotypes associated with those American regions to frame his essay. Talk about profiling...
When he crunched the "LAPD bad apples" numbers, he really made me sit up and take notice. We do get a disproportionate volume of news headlines that feature bad cops behaving badly, because bad news sells... and the daily news is the new cultural tale we tell ourselves in the 24/7 news cycle. "If it bleeds, it leads." That said, I believe the frequency with which police misconduct occurs is probably about the same as it has always been, but with one difference: real-time video, in the form of both cell phone and body cam footage. Most cops do a helluvalotta good every day, but- demographics, yo. There will always be some. And those cops do a disproportionate amount of harm to our society, given their unique place/role.
Folks are probably tired of hearing me talk about My Pops, but I need to drop this short bio about him for context in terms of my world view re: cops/public. Dude started out on 3rd shift foot patrol the year I was born. By the time I'd finished 9th grade, he'd assumed the rank of Inspector: Uniform Division. Not Traffic cops. They had their own Inspector. Pops was Head Crimefighter in our town. Second only to the Chief. Hotline to the Mayor, in times of crisis. Young man walked the streets of a rough little Midwest industrial town at night, with a service revolver and a billy club. You don't get more badass than that.
One day, I dropped into his office unannounced. I was on my way home from school. "Whatcha workin' on, Dad?" "Eh, you know- administrative s#. Boss stuff. How was your day? Get another 'F' in something?" ...and we just started talking about- stuff. Dad and his kid, for about 15 minutes.
2 weeks later, 3 tenured cops were fired for cause, for behaving like one of Malcolm's prototypes. We were just finishing dinner when the local news broke the story. I was standing there, holding my dinner dish, staring at the screen when Pops walked past and said:
"Administrative s#."
_______________
So perhaps you can see why these DT talks about cops & public touch a little close to home with me. I've been part of a Blue Family, and I've also been treated to a couple truly harrowing roadside stop incidents. It's complicated. Malcolm's lecture provided a p.o.v. that finally gave me a new way of looking at my past besides the binary of pride... and prejudice.
*EDIT* I urge all you chat participants to listen to the subject of the conversation that FATE & I are having. It's very, very interesting. I would love to hear what you others think, after hearing it. Find the link in my first response to FATE.
"Dude sometimes makes me cheer like the Browns just put one over the goal line; sometimes, he just p's me off"
I can see that 100%. 😁 That is why I really enjoyed the 'cast. If you want to immediately captivate me, be willing to call bs when you see it even if it doesn't fit your overall point of view. He did that more than a few times.
Yeah bro, math doesn't lie. No matter how much we want to stick our fingers in our ears and ignore it.
L.A. Police -- 8500 officers, 44 "bad apples". Yet an entire force is narrativized over 0.5% of it's force. I have a niece I respect a great deal. Intelligent, down to earth, very compassionate... during all the protests, defund movement, etc, she was completely onboard with eliminating police. I was dumbfounded. But even more so by her comment on social media: "I'm sure there are a few good cops out there". It was one of those things that stopped me dead in my tracks, as I realized these are the thoughts of a large swath of today's youth -- that somewhere out there in the vast wasteland of s--- police, there are a few good ones.
I've already put a digital copy on my waitlist at the library. Bonefish has me reading way too much fiction, I could use a little break. Thanks for turnin' me on.
*EDIT* I urge all you chat participants to listen to the subject of the conversation that FATE & I are having. It's very, very interesting. I would love to hear what you others think, after hearing it. Find the link in my first response to FATE.
I agree. You won't be sorry, very good listen...
Originally Posted by Clemdawg
Click here/click the teal-colored playa, center of the page.
I'm not sure that "teaching" students that they should give away their money
To be more accurate, it should read 'Giving away other peoples money", but either way, you are right.
It's one thing to have that perception. It's another thing to show they're actually teaching children that in school. I've seen no evidence to indicate they are. If they were we would have heard about DeSantis outlawing that too.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
The truth is kids pick things up from more than school. It's why I put "teaching" in quotation marks. What "message"/"lesson" are kids likely to take from a "plan" that is no more broadly explained than "Oh, take more taxes and give teachers more money"? That's not a plan, that's an idea so nonspecific as to be essentially useless.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The truth is kids pick things up from more than school. It's why I put "teaching" in quotation marks. What "message"/"lesson" are kids likely to take from a "plan" that is no more broadly explained than "Oh, take more taxes and give teachers more money"? That's not a plan, that's an idea so nonspecific as to be essentially useless.
Since we were discussing the education system I hope you can see how easily I may have interpreted the message as being part of the education system.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
And having no plan and just talking bs is a bigger ..pffft
You could try to actually explain your position, but all you seem to do is spout gobbledygook and cry BS.
Last edited by Bull_Dawg; 08/06/2311:53 AM. Reason: While his post doesn't deserve more than rolling eyes, maybe he just needs a prod to get somewhere productive.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The truth is kids pick things up from more than school. It's why I put "teaching" in quotation marks. What "message"/"lesson" are kids likely to take from a "plan" that is no more broadly explained than "Oh, take more taxes and give teachers more money"? That's not a plan, that's an idea so nonspecific as to be essentially useless.
So exactly who is it you think is "teaching them" that? As we see in the current social climate much of the attention is also focused on the content and manipulation of the public education system. I would dare to say much or more than it is on the funding. I do understand that some of the attention is focused on funding combined with teacher pay. But I think one looking at this objectively would have to admit that to draw better qualified people to teach, that funding is a part of the solution. Most of the teachers I know are those that have a strong passion for the profession. It's something they feel compelled to do. But that doesn't provide us with enough qualified people to fill all of the positions. And aside from that, how many people are willing to pay the high cost of a college education for a future profession that pays a fraction of what they could make at another profession for about the same educational investment cost? My hope would be that those who enter the teaching field would be smart enough to consider basic principals such as return on investment.
As such it's certainly a part of the conversation. Even before inflation hit hard, the cost of building materials and wages were increasing. In order to build new schools and fund teacher pay certainly the income schools receive must also increase. I know how convenient it is to boil all of that down to "They are taught to raise taxes and throw money at it" but there's a lot more to it than that.
As you and I both agree, the education system as it is packaged and taught also needs overhaul. But that along with money is the solution. I certainly don't see it as a one or the other proposition.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I get what you're saying. Which is the reason for my post. It seemed you were open to engaging on the topic about the funding end of things and as you stated, there really hasn't been what one would call a discussion about it brought forward. It seems as though we have managed to have a good back and forth discussion about education so I was simply trying to expand it to the funding aspect.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
My hope would be that those who enter the teaching field would be smart enough to consider basic principals such as return on investment.
Probably could have included this in the previous post, but it may be better to have it on its own for getting things on track. (and the thoughts on the topic required more pondering and took longer to coalesce.)
While on one hand I agree on this, there are other kinds of returns besides financial. I wouldn't want someone to get into teaching primarily for the financial returns. (I'm not trying to say that you do.) This ingrained idea that more money is always good influences basically everything in our country. I don't think that's a good thing.
edit: i.e, it's not how much money you have, it is what you do with it that is really important.
Last edited by Bull_Dawg; 08/06/2312:47 PM.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
I do understand what you're saying but had hoped I addressed that at least in part with this quote from my post...........
Quote
Most of the teachers I know are those that have a strong passion for the profession. It's something they feel compelled to do. But that doesn't provide us with enough qualified people to fill all of the positions.
And to help qualify my statement, I'm not advocating we raise teacher pay to that of a doctor or high priced attorney. Just more competitive with more sensible college degree pay.
As it stands we have teachers having to work second jobs. We have them paying for students classroom needs and then we have a very serious teacher shortage going on in many places around the country. And obviously it's worse in districts that can't afford to pay their teachers competitively.
So it's not that I expect people to get filthy rich being a teacher. But when you consider how poorly they're paid compared to a lot of degrees, there has to be some leveling of the playing field here. I do agree that a career you're passionate about has its own rewards. But at some point one has to consider their own future and quality of life.
Sometimes it is more about how much money you have than other times. When you have very little, more actually helps give you choices with what you can do with it. When all you can do is pay your bills, after that you're not left with choices. I'm not sure many rational people would want to put themselves in that position after paying such a high cost for a college degree. When a college education was a very reasonable cost that decision might have been much easier to make, but all of that has changed.
I'll give you a prime example of what I'm talking about. My daughter isn't a greedy or superficial person. She actually strongly considered becoming a teacher. She asked my opinion on the matter. Now I've never been one to tell people what they should do in such situations because if you do, if things don't go right, you'll be blamed for that decision. lol
So I simply told her pretty much what I think she should have expected me to tell her. I told her to consider life with her children. how much it would cost to raise them. Look ahead at buying a home and the type of life she wanted. To think about the stress of dealing with on one hand the students, then the faculty, as well as the school board politics. Talk to some teachers she had about those things.
In the end she told me she couldn't see herself being able to make a good living being a teacher. Instead she became a CPA. She makes somewhere between two and three times what a teacher makes. Her husband also has a great income. And even through all of that, they are nowhere what most people would call rich. They do own a nice home and have enough disposable income to make decisions on "what they do with it". I'm not so sure that would be true had she have chosen to be a teacher.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I agree with all that pretty much, I was more getting at that I hope the impact they can make on kids' lives is seen as a big part of the return on investment, perhaps greater than the financial.
For the second part of the post, I was more thinking towards the taxes and more money to the educational system "plan" from earlier. More money to the system sounds "good," but it really depends on how it is spent.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Duh. If we don’t start investing in our future we aren’t any better than a third world country. There are plenty of white papers and solutions written on school funding on the internet showing what has worked and what hasn’t. But as usual we just keep shooting ourselves in the foot and Ignore fixes by constant BS and bickering between political parties. It’s sad really.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Six former Mississippi officers have pleaded guilty to state charges for torturing two Black men
BRANDON, Miss. (AP) — Six white former Mississippi law officers pleaded guilty to state charges on Monday for torturing two Black men in a racist assault. All six had recently admitted their guilt in a connected federal civil rights case.
Prosecutors say some of the officers nicknamed themselves the “Goon Squad” because of their willingness to use excessive force and cover it up, including the attack that ended with a deputy shooting one victim in the mouth.
In January, the officers entered a house without a warrant and handcuffed and assaulted the two men with stun guns, a sex toy and other objects. The officers mocked them with racial slurs throughout a 90-minute torture session, then devised a cover-up that included planting drugs and a gun, leading to false charges that could have sent one victim to prison for years.
Their conspiracy unraveled months later, after one of them told the sheriff he had lied, leading to confessions from the others.
Each one agreed to sentences recommended by state prosecutors ranging from five to 30 years, although the judge isn’t bound by that. Time served for the state charges will run concurrently with federal sentences they are scheduled to receive. Each could get longer prison sentences in federal court in November.
The men include five former Rankin County sheriff’s deputies — Brett McAlpin, Hunter Elward, Christian Dedmon, Jeffrey Middleton and Daniel Opdyke — and a police officer from the city of Richland, Joshua Hartfield.
All six pleaded guilty to state charges of obstruction of justice and conspiracy to hinder prosecution.
Dedmon and Elward, who kicked in a door, pleaded guilty to additional charges of home invasion. Elward also pleaded guilty to aggravated assault, for shoving a gun into the mouth of one of the victims and pulling the trigger, in what authorities called a “mock execution.”
The victims — Michael Corey Jenkins and Eddie Terrell Parker — arrived together. They sat in the front row, feet away from their attackers’ families. Monica Lee, the mother of Damien Cameron, another Black man who died in 2021 after Elward punched and tased him during an arrest, embraced both men.
After the brazen acts of police violence in Rankin County came to light, some residents pointed to a police culture they said gave officers carte blanche to abuse their power.
The civil rights charges followed an Associated Press investigation linking some of the officers to at least four violent encounters with Black men since 2019, which left two dead and another with lasting injuries. The Justice Department launched a civil rights probe in February.
Rankin County’s majority-white suburbs have been a destination for white flight out of the capital, Jackson, which is home to one of the highest percentages of Black residents of any major U.S. city.
The officers warned Jenkins and Parker to “go back to Jackson or ‘their side’ of the Pearl River,” the documents say.
Jenkins and Parker were targeted because a white neighbor complained that two Black men were staying at the home with a white woman, court documents show.
Parker was a childhood friend of the homeowner, Kristi Walley. She’s been paralyzed since she was 15, and Parker was helping care for her.
“He’s a blessing. Every time I’ve needed him he’s been here,” Walley said in a February interview. “There were times I’ve been living here by myself and I didn’t know what I was going to do.”
Parker and Jenkins have left Mississippi and aren’t sure they will ever return to the state for an extended period. They took solace that at least one part of the justice system appears to have worked.
“With a little fight, with a lot of fight, you can come out with the truth,” Parker said a day after the guilty pleas were announced. “And the truth always prevails over any lie or story you make up.”
Jenkins still has difficulty speaking because of his injuries. The gunshot lacerated his tongue and broke his jaw before exiting his neck.
“As far as justice, I knew we were going to get it,” Jenkins said. “But I thought it was maybe going to take longer.”
Kristen Clarke, who heads the Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division, said the officers fomented distrust within the community they were supposed to serve. Mississippi Attorney General Lynn Fitch said the abuse of power would not be tolerated.
Military jobs based on intelligence- lowest- cooks and cops. Why shortages in Cleveland AND throughout the US- easy....defund police, criminals arrested and walk due to lenient prosecutors/judges- overcrowded jails---a new one- during pandemic- they could die in jail, so release them onto the general public.
PLUS- job description, go do what average citizen would never do- get shot at, pick up druggies, interfere in domestic disputed----PLUS goodie, if any kind of disaster hits, you can't take care of your family cuz the greater good is to try to take care of everyone else----BONUS- you don't get paid much.....SIGN ME UP.
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
Actually as has been posted on the board before, very few cities actually "defunded the police". It's a popular mantra among many but it factually didn't happen on anything that resembles a large scale basis. And I think another component is there are a certain faction of people that enter police departments based on the power it gives them. Now that they are being held more accountable for their actions it's certainly not as appealing to that sector.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Guardian- " Portland, Oregon, cut $15m from its budget and disbanded a gun violence reduction unit and transit team that had both long been accused of over-policing Black communities. San Francisco officials pledged to divest $120m from police over two years with plans to invest in health programs and workforce training. Minneapolis is using police cuts to launch a mental health team to respond to certain 911 calls. New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Seattle, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, Baltimore and a dozen other cities have all also reduced police spending. And some of these cities are now demonstrating the impacts of their new budgets." Ya been to Portland recently, or Seattle- all cities mentioned are JMHO-major population centers for their states/nation. I ain't saying mental health issues aren't important- BUT BASIC policing can't go down in our gun culture society.
Caring a gun will ALWAYS attract some different folks- you've painted organized religious as dirty too. Vast majority of cops and religious leaders are outstanding citizens.
I spent 26 yrs in military as pilot- got shot at many times, but you couldn't pay me enough to be a cop- the sacrifice is to great for what you have to put up with.
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
They actually don’t pay them much anyways….and you could say the same for teachers, nurses, firemen, first responders, social workers and a dozen other life saving jobs.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Once again thanks for not paying attention. I'll try again.....
Quote
very few cities actually "defunded the police"
Despite 'defunding' claims, police funding has increased in many U.S. cities
Leaders across the country have blamed the rise in crime on the "defund the police" movement. In most places, it never happened.
ABC Owned Television Stations examined the budgets of more than 100 cities and counties and found 83% are spending at least 2% more on police in 2022 than in 2019.
The global scale of child sexual abuse in the Catholic Church
A series of abuse scandals, often involving children, have rocked the Catholic Church in recent decades.
The Catholic Church has been repeatedly rocked by child sexual abuse scandals over the last three decades.
An independent inquiry on Tuesday said it had concluded there were about 216,000 victims of sexual abuse carried out by the French Catholic Church’s clergy between 1950 and 2020.
According to lawyers, more than 11,000 complaints have been lodged in the US by victims of priests. Dioceses have paid out hundreds of millions of dollars in out of court settlements.
A grand jury investigation into Pennsylvania dioceses in 2018 exposed the systematic cover-up by the church of abuse by “over 300 predator priests”. More than 1,000 child victims were cited.
And that's just in the Catholic Church alone in two countries. While I doubt you're actually interested, the link breaks it down by country No big deal, right?
Yes, when higher ups of a religion help hide children being molested, it's a huge problem. That's a systemic problem.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
J/C we wouldn’t need so much policing if we had a true world class education system instead of our prison like setting in schools caused by gun violence.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
J/C we wouldn’t need so much policing if we had a true world class education system instead of our prison like setting in schools caused by gun violence.
I was thinking if we didn't have as many criminals.
We have a good education system. People just don't apply themselves while there. Parents don't make them.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.
Our education system is atrocious. It saddens me that anyone thinks it’s quality.
Just like most other things in America, even the education system is rigged and the have nots get shafted. Coupled with the political dumbing down of America and you get what we have. I remember the 70s, with most men involved in tinkering. I learned a lot from the dads in my friends group. They all would take the time to show you what they were doing and how. From building wood-splitters, to small engines repair, working on cars, or hanging with the popular science and popular mechanics dads and doing something cutting edge… We built ham radios, electronic gadgets, new tools, etc. It was a childhood steeped in hands on learning. Today there is almost none of that, nor nearly the number of men/women capable of doing it.
We’re now a done for you nation with a pitiful basic education system because corps and politicians wanted factory worker mindsets for plug and play replacements.
I don’t think any ambush killings are acceptable, but that number is lower thought with us living in a time where law is only relevant when it’s not impeding one’s political or religious views…
Our education system is atrocious. It saddens me that anyone thinks it’s quality.
When you live in a very affluent community where property taxes heavily fund your school district it's easy to come to the conclusion that public schools are great. After all they have the funds to hire the best teachers and attract them. That's what happens when people choose to look at things under a microscope rather than through a telescope.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Bronx judge frees men charged with beating up NYPD officer — despite DA’s request for $10K bail
By Steven Vago, Joe Marino and Steve Janoski Published Nov. 16, 2023, 2:12 a.m. ET
A Bronx judge released two brutes accused of pummeling a cop who asked them to put out their cigarettes at a subway station — in a move that was slammed by one NYPD union leader as “upside down.”
Kaream McClary, 23, and Izayiah Jessamy, 20, were hit with assault charges for allegedly beating up Officer John Hernandez at the Freeman Street station on Monday, according to court documents and the NYPD.
At their hearing Tuesday in Bronx Criminal Court, prosecutors requested bail set at $10,000 or $30,000 bond — but Judge Eugene Bowen released them without bail, according to court records.
Patrick Hendry, the president of the Police Benevolent Association union, tore into the decision.
“This shows the absolutely upside down world we’re living in,” Hendry said in a statement.
“We need New Yorkers to start speaking up and demanding real consequences for those who assault cops,” he said.
“Our streets and subways won’t be safe if the cops protecting them aren’t safe.”
New York State Office of Court Administration’s communications director, Al Baker, defended the decision to release the suspects following their arraignment.
Kaream McClary, 23, Izayiah Jessamy, 20, were arraigned Tuesday on assault charges for allegedly beating up officer John Hernandez.
At their hearing in Bronx Criminal Court, prosecutors requested bail set at $10,000 or $30,000 bond.
“Release determinations, made after reviewing the facts and circumstances of a case, are about assuring that the accused return to court,” he said in a statement to The Post.
Still, it’s a conspicuously controversial decision by Bowen, a former Legal Aid public defender and math professor who only donned a judge’s robes for the first time in January.
The Democratic magistrate’s decision also flies in the face of a ruling made in a similar case, when a Bronx Criminal Court judge ordered a pair of 24-year-old thugs who pummeled a uniformed NYPD officer to be held on $40,000 bail Sunday night.
The victim — Lt. Gypsy Pichardo — is recovering from the beating, which left with a battered face and eight stitches to his swollen left eye.
Footage of McClary and Jessamy’s alleged attack, meanwhile, popped up on social media this week, and shows three men arguing with officers before then repeatedly punching Hernandez in the head, face, and neck.
Hernandez covers up for protection during the caught-on-camera scuffle.
“Yo, yo beat him!” a man yells in the clip as officers grapple with the attackers.
The shocking video was not mentioned at the arraignment, a source told The Post.
Neither of the two defendants have criminal records and both were recommended release by the Criminal Justice Agency, the source said.
The brazen beatdown came as assaults against NYPD cops have skyrocketed by more than 25% this year, according to data obtained by The Post last month.
The pair of cops eventually collared the two assailants at the scene, the video shows, but the third attacker managed to get away.
Neither of the two defendants have criminal records and both were recommended release by the Criminal Justice Agency, the source said.
Lawyers for McClary and Jessamy did not return a request for comment.
Record numbers of cops have retired or changed careers after the ACAB movement. Cities and munis seem to have followed the "woke" carrot with defund and "bail is no fair". Recruits are scarce since the job sucks, there's little respect, and your life is more endangered by the day. Yet the beat goes on.
Almost all decisions in life are based on possible repercussions, but those seem to be fewer and further between when it comes to crime.
Some of these things seem ridiculously simple. Assault a cop -- go to jail -- bail starts at 20G, no exceptions. Wait, maybe there should be exceptions for _______, nope, nevermind, NO exceptions.
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