DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus More Virtues of Organized Religion

Let's put your twp posts together shall we?


You do understand that the non religious make no claims of following the teachings of the Bible, right? What you are making a feeble attempt at doing is trying to compare self proclaimed religious leaders to people that are not only what religion calls the unsaved, you know those doomed to hell, to your religious leaders. You do understand how poorly that sells, right?


You do realize you could say the exact same thing about public schools, right? The difference is public schools aren't ran be religious officials.

If you represent the average Catholic, things might be better in your religion if you spent half as much time holding these church officials accountable as you did spending time making excuses and rationalizations for them.

News flash, they are being held accountable- they have been held accountable. Sadly, public education isn't doing a very good job, JMHO. I've previously stated I do believe in Jesus and his final judgement of all- you don't- God gave you free will. Peace.

I do believe in his judgement. That's why you certainly will never be catching me making excuses for pedophiles. They were held accountable. By their victims via the court system. It's not as if they voluntarily confessed their sins like they expect you to do.

Not all of them.

This is where I struggle. It's not the events that I struggle with. It's the actual nature of the Biblical God.

How is genocide an act of love? The whole Noah story. How is killing 99.9% of the world's population a "good" solution? That's the best idea an all-powerful, all-knowing, loving being had? If that is in fact a "good" approach, why would an unchanging being say that he's never going to do it again?

There's also the whole blood sacrifices deal. There are animal sacrifices throughout the old testament. Then there's Jesus as ultimate sacrifice. You (God) need it, you don't need it post-Jesus, why'd you need blood in the first place? It just has a whiff of older more primitive practices to me, and someone (some group) trying to fit old beliefs into a newer form.

Thou shall not kill, but Abraham go kill your son. ...Just kidding. It was a test.

I don't know. Things just don't add up to me. Either something else's actions are being (mis)attributed to God, or He isn't who/what/how the Book says He is. I can't find my way past the inconsistencies despite decades of trying.

I actually find myself envying those that are able to believe.

I've sort of boiled it down to this. One is the Old Testament God.

Do you remember those angry kids in high school? Those who seemed so mean and cruel? But later they settled down, had a family and became much nicer?

That's sort of how I see it when you compare Old Testament God to New Testament God. Once he had a kid he mellowed out a lot.

That's how it (kind of) seems to me, too. And/But, if God is capable of change, he's not really God as described. Divine immutability is a central tenet of the faith. Without it, what is there to rely on?

And that's certainly one way a person can look at it. But there is another way to look at it. And I'm not a preachy person when it comes to religion so it's not something I expect anyone to see this way.

But I also consider that the Bible tells us that God made man in his own image. And while I can't speak for everyone, as a species one would hope that we learn and grow over time. That as it pertains to our life's lessons, the education process never ends until our death.

As I said, I don't especially expect anyone to share that view but I do think it's another perspective with which to look at. I'm not one who believes a lot of the hoopla that surrounds organized religion per say myself.

It's like babies that die or children who get terminal cancer. Then you hear people say such foolish things like "It's all a part of God's plan" or "God just decided to call them home".

I mean how can someone really believe God chooses which young children should be killed in car accidents or undergo the horrors of terminal cancer only to die?

So yes, I get your point but I'm not a person who buys into a lot of the organized religion double talk which allows me the luxury of looking toward the Bible for my answers rather than what some man tries to tell me it says. I find that quite helpful.

Here is something I actually agree with you on Pit. We are all made in God's image. I don't like organized religion either. Faith is a relationship with our creator and not a religion. As Philippians 2:12 says, "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." As far as what happens that is bad like you mentioned I agree evil is not in God's plan. We have an enemy and he is the devil and the Bible says he only does 3 things, kill, steal, and destroy. Bible also says God is 3 things, faith, hope, and love, and the greatest of these is love.

I agree with the bolded part. I'm not entirely sure how you rationalize looking to a book that allegedly hasn't changed in nearly 2000 years for direction with that idea in mind. I'm not trying to argue, just stating that it doesn't work for me.

The Bible says that God made man in his own image, but I can't help but wonder if instead it was man that made God in his image (at least as far as the Bible.) I don't discount the possibility or even likelihood of a god or higher power, but the Bible strikes me as an attempt by man to explain the "truth" of the world/universe/existence rather than the absolute Truth. It's definitely a better attempt than many other religions have put forth. Some people need a reason to "be good." It's a book that has a lot of good advice/ideas. But, there are lots of books with good advice and good ideas. I have hard time letting a book with so many contradictions be my ultimate authority.

I just can't get past the contradictions. I can't find a way to worship a construct that believes killing innocents (i.e, in a flood, 1st borns in Egypt, etc.) is acceptable behavior. I've heard the he created everyone so he has the right to do as he pleases argument, but following the same logic it would appear to be okay for parents to murder their children. The "do as I say, not as I do style" has never sat right with me.

If there is a God, and there likely is, he gave me judgement (the ability to think/judge.) I have to believe he/she/it did so for a reason. Following an ancient book because tradition (and its own text) says its the gospel (word of God) when my "god-given" senses are screaming something doesn't add up seems almost disrespectful. What if God didn't actively do the awful things "we" attribute to him?

I understand why people don't believe it. I don't think it makes them a bad person or evil. I've met many wonderful people who don't believe. I don't think anyone has to be religious or believe the Bible to be a good person. I respect people of all faiths and those that don't have faith. In society the thing that bothers me most about most people of faith is that they try to force their morals on the rest of society when it should be a choice of each individual. I'm not sure what that's about. I mean after all, the bible teaches that you have to accept Christ. Not that Christ should be shoved down your throat.

Smh. God makes a good topic for MAGA discussion. No facts or evidence is required. Non-critical thinkers welcome. You can just make stuff up and roll with it. Trump should have started a church.

...don't give him any ideas....

I can see future history books opining on the Trumpian jihad all too clearly.


As far as the rest of the post, I don't see making stuff up and rolling with it as being restricted to any particular group. I actually think making up/manufacturing/"finessing" "facts," or even simply accepting things as fact that aren't, might be worse than not requiring them. Not everything can be or is known. Pretending otherwise presents its own dangers.

He’s the chosen one. No need.