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Looking forward to watching Ramaswamy school fools. I'm about to start buying bumper stickers and hand them out at the mall.

Are all you lefties tuning in? My other three conservatives?

Who you got? If you had to vote for a filthy GOPer, who checks the box?

Chris Christie. I'm tired of extremists on both sides. Ramaswamy is just a more concentrated version of what we've already had.

I find him to be the most favorable candidate in my mind, too. What will be interesting is to see how DeSantis comes out after all the leakage exposed debate strategies. Even more curious to see if he tries to land the "Trumpian" nickname against Vivek that was mentioned and, if so, what that name will be. Trump, for all his flaws, and there are many, was very effective at coming up with zinger nicknames. I don't see DeSantis having that same ability.

I can just see it now: Desantis: "More like 'Vivek Runs-the-swampy'"

Then nobody laughs and the stage gets awkward.

Then Christie gives him a wedgie.

I wanna watch but I think it's more like morbid curiosity. They will each take stabs at Biden and Christie and maybe Hutchinson will take strong stabs at Trump and then go about devouring each other.

I wanna see what they say about all this 14th amendment stuff.. Hope it comes up.

Beyond that, I can't imagine this being very interesting.

From abortion to January 6: where each Republican candidate in the debate stands on big issues
Donald Trump will not attend the first debate of the 2024 primary season, as candidates vie to present policy agendas

Mary Yang
Tue 22 Aug 2023 11.48 EDT

Republicans vying for the 2024 party nomination are set to take the stage in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, on Wednesday night for the first debate of the primary season.

The candidates will certainly throw punches at each other and at Donald Trump, who has a significant lead in polls but is skipping the debate. But it’s also a chance for each candidate to present their policy agenda and voice their stance on key voter issues such as abortion and aid to Ukraine.

Here’s where each candidate in Wednesday’s debate stands on issues such as abortion, immigration, the economy and continued aid to Ukraine.

_________________________________________

Ron DeSantis

Abortion: DeSantis has supported bills restricting access to abortion – including a six-week ban in his own state of Florida – but has stopped short of saying he would support a federal ban.

Economy: In a recently released economic plan, DeSantis said he would cut individual taxes and slash government spending. He also pushed for “American energy independence” and a rollback of electric vehicles.

Immigration: As governor, DeSantis has enacted some of the country’s strictest laws against undocumented immigrants, including asking hospital patients to prove their legal status. He also made the controversial move to use public funds to send newly arrived migrants to Martha’s Vineyard in a political stunt. As president, he said he would eliminate the visa lottery and limit “unskilled immigration”.

Foreign policy: He opposes additional US involvement in Ukraine and has pledged to reduce economic ties with “communist China” and said the US would no longer “kowtow to Wall Street”.

January 6: DeSantis said it was “unfortunate” but “not an insurrection”.

More: The current governor of Florida and a former congressman was widely expected to be Trump’s main primary challenger. But his favorability among Republicans has taken many hits, starting with a glitchy Twitter Spaces event hosted by Elon Musk. He has frequently touted his opposition to gender-affirming care for trans people and other public health measures such as mask mandates.

_________________________________________

Vivek Ramaswamy

Abortion: Ramaswamy told a crowd at the Iowa State Fair he is “unapologetically pro-life”. But his campaign earlier confirmed he would not back a national abortion ban.

Economy: The biotech entrepreneur wants to “unshackle” the energy sector, saying the US should abandon its climate goals to drive down energy costs and boost its GDP. He is also in favor of some corporate and individual tax cuts.

Immigration: Ramaswamy said he wants to deport “universally” and end birthright citizenship for children of undocumented immigrants, who would then be required to apply to become a citizen.

Foreign policy: Ramaswamy has criticized US aid to Ukraine, saying it is strengthening Russia’s alliance with China.

January 6: Ramaswamy condemned Trump the week after the January 6 attack but has walked back his criticism since then. Responding to a question for an Atlantic profile about what truly happened that day, Ramaswamy said: “I don’t know.” He has defended ex-president Trump across his four indictments.

More: Time magazine labeled Ramaswamy a “breakout candidate”. The political outsider has steadily climbed the polls since launching his long-shot bid as an “anti-woke” patriot.

_________________________________________

Tim Scott

Abortion: Scott, an evangelical Christian, is staunchly anti-abortion and said he would support a national 15-week ban.

Economy: Scott supports tax cuts and stronger economic competition with China. As a senator, Scott championed legislation establishing “opportunity zones”, which are meant to increase economic development in low-income areas by incentivizing private investment, though critics say residents may not benefit from gentrification.

Immigration: He is in favor of a wall along the US southern border to curb illegal migration and drug trafficking.

Foreign policy: He broadly supports continued US aid to Ukraine and said Biden has not done enough. But some conservatives think he’s soft on China.

January 6: Scott said he doesn’t believe the 2020 election was stolen and does not blame Trump for the violence at the Capitol.

More: The South Carolina senator, who is the only Black Republican in the Senate, is an outspoken critic when it comes to teaching kids about race and gender in schools and has said: “America is not a racist country.”

_________________________________________

Nikki Haley

Abortion: The only woman on the debate stage, Haley is anti-abortion but has also called a federal abortion ban “unrealistic”.

Economy: Haley wrote in an op-ed that she opposes raising the national debt limit and would “veto spending bills that don’t put America on track to reach pre-pandemic spending levels”.

Foreign policy: The former US ambassador to the United Nations under Trump, Haley has labeled the Chinese Communist party an “enemy” and criticized Trump for trying to befriend the Chinese president, Xi Jinping.

Immigration: Haley has vowed to tighten security at the US-Mexico border and add 25,000 patrol agents, as well as require companies to verify employees’ status online – which she signed into law in South Carolina as governor.

January 6: Haley has called January 6 a “terrible day” and said Trump “went down a path that he shouldn’t have” in an interview with Politico.

_________________________________________

Chris Christie

Abortion: He has said he would not support a federal abortion ban.

Economy: The former New Jersey governor has targeted “excessive government spending” as the reason for inflation and floated cuts to social security, including Medicare.

Foreign policy: Christie, who has aligned himself with the hawkish, tough-on-China-and-Russia camp, visited the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, in a surprise trip earlier this month to affirm his support for continued US aid.

Immigration: Christie said “immigrants are pouring over the border” in an attack against Trump’s campaign promise to build a border wall.

January 6: Christie, who was in the running to be Trump’s VP after dropping out of the 2016 presidential race, is now Trump’s loudest critic. He broke with Trump over the January 6 Capitol attack, calling Trump a “coward” for not joining rioters.

_________________________________________

Mike Pence

Abortion: The former vice-president, an evangelical Christian, is the loudest anti-abortion candidate and has condemned his opponents for refusing to back a six-week abortion ban.

Economy: Pence has said his top priority is boosting the US economy and has called on the Fed to ditch its dual mandate – keeping employment high and inflation low – to focus solely on reducing inflation. He has also advocated for cutting social security benefits.

Foreign policy: Pence has advocated for continued US aid to Ukraine and met with Volodymyr Zelenskiy during a surprise visit in June.

Immigration: He has blasted the Biden administration’s immigration policy, describing a “stampede” from Central and South America, and has vowed to finish the border wall that began under Trump.

January 6: Pence has campaigned heavily on his refusal to aid Trump in his effort to stop the certification of electoral results and has repeatedly condemned his ex-boss for his role in the Capitol attack.

_________________________________________

Doug Burgum

Abortion: Burgum signed a law banning nearly all abortions in North Dakota but said he would not support a national ban.

Economy: The governor of North Dakota, who is also a wealthy businessman, has touted North Dakota’s record as an energy-producing state and said he would prioritize growing the country’s tech and energy sectors.

Foreign policy: Winning the “cold war with China” is a key pillar of Burgum’s message to voters.

Immigration: Burgum said Biden hasn’t done enough to secure the US-southern border and supports stricter restrictions on migration.

January 6: Burgum called for a stop to the violence at the Capitol on January 6 but said he thinks it’s time to “move on”.

_________________________________________

Asa Hutchinson

Abortion: As governor of Arkansas, Hutchinson signed a near-total abortion ban and said he would support a national ban.

Economy: He has floated extreme measures to balance the federal budget and reduce debt including cutting the federal non-military workforce by 10%.

Immigration: Hutchinson supports harsh restrictions on immigration.

Foreign policy: He said he would not cut economic ties with China but has advocated for more aggressive action to counter China’s threat against Taiwan. Politico describes Hutchinson’s foreign policy as a “compassionate internationalism” of the past.

January 6: He said January 6 “disqualifies” Trump from running for president.


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...views-debate-desantis-ramaswamy-christie

This will look like a three stooges family reunion.

Flipped over for two minutes to see Pence and Vivek (sp?) have a back and forth… Vivek is nuts. Pence is still a zealot and the weak link. not a single leader on that stage could ever earn my vote.

They probably arent trying to appeal to socialist extremists.

I liked Vivek a bit before tonight... guy is getting on my damn nerves... so far I like DeSantis though wish he said more... liking Niki Haley... frankly none of these dopes have done really well tonight...

Vivak said trump was the greatest president of our time, fact - or something along those lines

1st, not fact, complete opinion
Some people think the worst president ever - also complete opinion

2nd, I wish someone would have asked him: If you think trump was such a great president, why are you up here running against him?

Vivek needs to stop with the hands.

The debates are so hard to watch. Not just this one but all of them. The moderator asked a simple question then they spend 5 minutes talking about something completely unrelated to the question and never actually answer the question

I liked DeSantis and Christie.

DeSantis said he would cut individual taxes and slash government spending. == Tired old troupe & sound bite that never happens. Means more debt.

The biotech entrepreneur wants to “unshackle” the energy sector, saying the US should abandon its climate goals to drive down energy costs and boost its GDP. == Cliamate change is the Number 1 most serious global issue. This approach is either a sound bite for the masses or simply short sighted and Stooopid.

Scott championed legislation establishing “opportunity zones”, which are meant to increase economic development in low-income areas by incentivizing private investment == The most sensible actual 'plan' mentioned so far.

Haley wrote in an op-ed that she opposes raising the national debt limit and would “veto spending bills that don’t put America on track to reach pre-pandemic spending levels” == I would be on board with this broadly - but the issue is much more nuanced.

The former New Jersey governor has targeted “excessive government spending” as the reason for inflation and floated cuts to social security, including Medicare. == Kudos for honesty on social and medicare even if I don't agree. I'll take honesty on an issue I don't agree with over the lies and B.S from most of the others. Don't agree that Govt spend was the driving force behind the global inflation.... global inflation isn't caused by US spending or politics.

Pence - can't take anything he says seriously.

Burgum touted North Dakota’s record as an energy-producing state and said he would prioritize growing the country’s tech and energy sectors. == How? What about the other 85% of the economy?

Asa has floated extreme measures to balance the federal budget and reduce debt including cutting the federal non-military workforce by 10%. == Again a one dimensional approach. And why 10% of non-military? Why not target the Military waste?



-- I'll try to catch up and watch some of the debate. At one time I like Christie - he's by no means perfect but then none of them are. I'd be very tempted to vote for him over Biden depending on how far he manages to distance himself from the likes of Trump. MTG. Gaetz etc .... If he could shed the Crazies and Extremists he'd probably do it.

Once again the choices suck

That is a fact.

Pathetic really from both parties.

You would think that at some point someone would come along that you could get behind and feel good about.

When politicians open their mouths all I hear is BS.

Trump trump trump!!!!

And oh yea guys, apparently the gop debates proved that Fox News is just another CNN woke news outlet and shouldn’t be trusted.

I came away feeling that Haley was the winner last night.

Christie is a spoiler type...
Ramaswamey (sp) is a waste of time. Fast talking nut job
Hutchinson, No,, not a winner. Won't win
Scott didn't look like a president., Not the man
DeSantis is little hitler
Haley, Realistic and appears honest. The only one up there that understand that a total abortion bad won't win you a sausage.

What does it say that all but two of them said they'd still vote for Trump if he's the nominee regardless of if he's convicted. They are saying they'd support a FELON. Frickin idiots!

Vivek is awful. Just plain awful.

DeSantis did not hurt himself, but he did not help himself at all, either. Dude couldn't even answer a question about whether Pence did the right thing on J6 until his hand was forced. He's just so awkward.

I thought Haley did the best. Whether or not it was genuine, and I have my doubts, I appreciated that she pointed the finger back to Republicans as being responsible for the debt/deficit blowing up. I think a lot of disenfranchised Republicans and conservatives feel that way.

Of the 21st Century. But yes, still opinion.

For someone to make that statement.

That should automatically disqualify them.

Bro the only person willing to actually be in a competition is Chris Christie.

It’s like the party of anti-participation trophies are just up here participating, because they spent their time licking trumps boots, and then dude couldn’t be bothered showing up.

They know they are competing against each other in the GOP primaries, right?

Other than Christie, it was straight beta male energy on stage (I include Haley in that general phrase).

That is true, and it confounds me. For whatever reason, I don't think that the base can get it into their heads that they've lost three cycles in a row, pretty much due to one guy, and his situation keeps getting worse. I don't think they have any hope of winning the presidency if he is the candidate. Yet, he is still way out in front. They are caught between a rock and hard place of most general voters disliking the guy, but most Republican base voters viewing him as the only choice. It's a conundrum.

I think what happened is that the old guard Republicans (McConnell, Graham, etc) got caught with their hands in the cookie jar, not doing anything for years except getting wealthy at our expense, a then Trump basically pulled a hostile takeover of the party in 2016, and now they have no answer for him. Like you inferred, Christie is the only other "alpha" candidate, and he stands no chance.

The sad thing for them is I think most of the other candidates (not all) would have a better chance to beat Biden in the general election, too, because they don't have the outright "hell no" factor that Trump has among the general voting populace.

The Republicans need a renaissance, badly. I think it'll take Trump losing and/or going to jail for that to even be possible. Then a whole bunch of other houses need to be cleaned.

Thanks for clarifying that. I remembered the sentiment but not the exact terminology. I was not going to go back and rewatch it to find it out.
And again, if he believes that, why is he running against him?

I have an inherent dislike for politicians.

Politics is all about being a professional liar. All politicians are hypocrites. They will say anything to further their careers.

Anyone who stays in politics knows they have to lie.

trump IMO does not even distinguish the truth from lies. He just spouts anything that makes him appear great.

It's really hard to vote. I just want to never see or hear from trump again.

Why would you say he is a little Hitler? Do you have examples or is that just something you have been programmed to say?

But are catering to fascist extremists.

That isn't true. Just looking around this board the extremests are on the left.

You are left, you also have a sense of reason. There are a few on here who are extremists and that is who she was talking to.

What confuses me about some of these chandidates is something I thought would happen anyway but it certainly doesn't explain the flip flop in this regard.

First the claim was that they wanted to see Roe vs Wade overturned to leave the decision of abortion to the states. They have always claimed to be about states rights. So Roe was overturned.

Now, after claiming states should have the rights to determine their own abortion laws, some of them have decided there should be a national abortion ban. What happened to states rights and leaving abortion up to the states?

I don't think you have paid attention to her MO. Anyone who doesn't walk the Republican line is included in her ire. And in case you didn't notice, I was referring to the message these candidates are spewing to their voting base. That only fits if it includes you. If it doesn't it wasn't directed towards you.

Let's face it, when you start mandating that you teach our children that slavery benefited the slaves, you've gone off the deep end.

Who said there should be a national abortion ban? Seems like you're overlapping some "they" with other "they" and painting a picture that is disingenuous at best. Asa Hutchinson is the only candidate on the stage that supports a national ban. Everyone else supports a 'window' most of them around 15 weeks... even staunch RTL advocate, Pence, supports a national six week window.

I think the crux of the issue is the window anyway. Why do some democrats support abortion up to the point of birth? That seems inhumane to almost all humans, regardless of religious beliefs.

Actually DeSantis and Haley flat out refused to answer the question all together about an abortion ban. DeSantis bragged about his six week ban and said he will always "stand on the side of life".

If you wish to get into there being extremists on both sides of the issue we certainly agree there.

You're right. DeSantis did dance around the issue.

Haley spoke at length about the subject -- and she was the real adult in the room when talking about the reality of the situation.

“It will take 60 Senate votes, it will take a majority of the House,” she said, suggesting it will be difficult, if not impossible, to pass such restrictions before arguing for finding areas of “consensus.”

“Can’t we all agree that we should ban late-term abortions?” she asked. “Can’t we all agree that we should encourage adoptions? Can’t we all agree that doctors and nurses who don’t believe in abortion shouldn’t have to perform them? Can’t we all agree that contraception should be available? And can’t we all agree that we are not going to put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty if she gets an abortion?”

So in other words why are we talking about something that will never happen? Politicians spend waaay too much time arguing about the far-fetched fringe of every subject. Citizens spend way too much time analyzing things that will never come to pass anyway.

So you don't consider her comments as dancing around whether she supports a national abortion ban or not? I agree she spoke about trying to find some common ground and to me that makes sense. So while she did a great job of avoiding the question, at the end of it all we don't know whether she supports the idea of a national abortion ban or not. And I will say that as a national candidate I think she would do much better than most if not all of the other current options as the Republican nominee.

I agree with you that she addressed the topic in great length, she still didn't answer the question.

Republicans need to get their head out of their butts.

So they actually think that after an insurrection, they can win a general election with the person responsible for the insurrection, and that is a hop skip and jump away from a 10 x 10 cell ?

Add on top of that a whole lot of people (not just women) are just very upset about the Dobbs decision which is a direct result of the former president.

The candidates were were talking to themselves and whatever the GOP has devolved into. Only Nikki and Chris realize that.

Those outside of the Republican party think that they are nuts.

They are the "Angry Elephants".

And to be fair, I would prefer someone, anyone other than Grandpa Joe.

I will add a negative about DeSantis.

He needs to go to a good mens tailor and get his suits fitted. Off the rack doesn't work for him...I know, off the rack doesn't work for me either.

Ron, you are running for President. Dress the part. That suit you had yesterday didn't hang right. Go to a tailor, or get a new one. You can't just go to the mens store, buy a $300-400 outfit and expect it to look good. Triple that and you might get there.

So you want him to look like he's one of the elites instead of the every day common man?

I get what you're saying man. j/k

Supports a ban?

Don't really care, and neither should anyone else. There are always two different dynamics when "leadership" comes into play... what works for 'you', and what is best for the community. I didn't 'support' smoking at my restaurant, but I realized that many of my employees smoked. I could have banned smoking (without a vote) on the premises, but that would have been selfish and stupid.

Seems like Nikki is in search of a reasonable solution. That's the job of leaders, finding reasonable solutions to complex problems.

So she then didn't address the question of whether she supports a national ban or not. That was the topic we were discussing.

She did propose a reasonable "starting point". But then when one looks at starting points, when the GOP used turning over abortion rights to the states that was their starting point. When DeSantis decided to ban lbgtq teaching to grades 1-3 that was his starting point. And don't get me wrong, such things aren't exclusive to the GOP. But there are several examples of where the starting point in no way represents the end game.