DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Would You Consider Manchin?

How do you figure? Actual discussion, no poking, as you know I like and respect you.

I am not a huge fan of Sanders' policies by any means. However, I do feel that he is more altruistic in his beliefs than the vast majority of his peers. I also do get OCD's point that the country has been dragged so far one way with corporate consolidations and mergers, largely accelerated by the big bailouts that there are rampant elements of crony capitalism. I don't really see a huge contingent of communist donors to a lot of the campaigns, be they Republican or Democrat. I'll give you the champaign socialists from Hollywood, along with Soros and whatnot, although I think a lot is attributed to him via fear factor without much rational basis.

I do think that you and I are aligned on the abuses of the system to the "have-nots" so to speak. I think what we currently have is a system where the middle class is being siphoned of funds by both the upper and the lower class, but if you look at the growth metrics, the upper class is siphoning that wealth at a much higher rate. DCDAWG made a great point one time - and he and I are pretty close in our views - that it is getting to the point where that type of pilfering so to speak is "begging" for the system to snap back the other way. In that event, people like Sanders would look exactly like a centrist.

Getting to the point, though, when I compare the two, I see Stalin on one hand. He advocated for agriculture collectivization, a one-party totalitarian police state, and pretty much throwing anyone in jail who disagreed with him in any aspect. There's also the fact that he killed 20 million people. Post-Stalin Soviet Russia actually softened its stance compared to him when Kruschev took over. The only place that runs a Government still in that mold is North Korea. Even Cuba is not at that level.

I look at Sanders and I see him prescribed as a Democratic Socialist, who wants to achieve some socialist policies via Democratic means. His policies are overwhelmingly financially-based. I have never gotten the impression from him in any vein that he is seeking to jail those who disagree with him or establish gulags. I can't really see much of a comparison between him and Stalin, or the Kim dynasty at all. If anything, I see him as slightly left of FDR.

I don't think he will. There is a fervor now that I have not seen before. I see a lot of people shouting things, be it out of fear, or anger, or some combination therein. Nazis, Bolsheviks, and the like, from both extremes, all disregarded objective logic and were galvanized by rage and resentment, fostered via group-think that demagogues seized upon.

Unfortunately, we see that now in several different sects, but one of the largest is the fundamentalist Christian Right. I will caveat this by saying that most of my beliefs are OG conservative and I am a quietly devout Christian, but I cannot identify with what is happening in that movement whatsoever. In fact, as a Christian, I fail to see how that movement can get over the shear amount of anomalies between its faith-based and politically-based beliefs. I won't even get in to how they justified championing #45.

That being said, however, you'll see posts from Day or from Pastor that draw conclusions with no justification. My suspicion is that it falls in line with what I have seen in my own extended family. Galvanization via echo chambers, reinforced from any number of self-interested talking heads, working their way into a fervor and then lashing out. It is not just germane to that group, as there are extremists on both ends of the spectrum, but it's something I have been paying attention to.

That is all long-winded to say I don't think you'll see much distinction, as you pointed out. The classifications and mental associations seem to be set in stone.

I think part of the problem is that people use the most extreme example to label an entire group. It's never that simple. What one has to do IMO is look at who it is that each party endorses on the national stage to see where a party stands overall. Even then it doesn't represent everyone that belongs to the party, just the majority of said party. I understand that not everyone who is a Republican is a trumpian. But on the national stage that is who the majority of them have chosen to represent them.

Then there's the "He/She is a communist!" mantra they have been using what seems like forever. Any time a leader wishes to help level the playing field for the working man or poor, that's the label they use to tag with from the right. For some reason they never learned what happens when unfettered capitalism is left to run wild. Maybe it would take Hoovervilles once again littering our landscape first? Maybe they mean taking this nation back to where there were no unions and people needed three or four people in the same household working just to live? Is that what MAGA stands for? But as with anything or any form of government, all of them can be abused. The same goes for capitalism. There has to be checks and balances to keep it from destroying the middle class and the poor.

But any time a leader tries to do that, they are labeled a communist. It's a message that has been ingrained on the right for close to a century now and they don't know anything else.

Meanwhile they have gone from the party of Reagan to the party of trump in less than three short decades.

Who cares. U.S.S.R. Communists. There is no difference even if you insist. So being a member of the United Soviet Social Repubic makes you feel better?


Cool.

I am not moved. Call it what you want. I'll call it what I will.

Anything that helps keep checks and balances on capitalism in order to help protect the common man is evil to you. Let's just call it what it is.

Nomenclature is not indicative. By that same vein, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea is a democracy.

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LOl...well, if the common man is a communist, you can bet your ass I am for it.


Plus...what exactly is a "common" man? I consider myself a common man. I'd bet you and I consider it different.

The average working man in terms of income and those who live below that threshold.

Like I said, anything put in place to help them which would be considered restricting capitalism is something you call communist. That's the very reason workers formed unions, there had to be a minimum wage established and child labor laws came to be. Because of people who thought like you do.

So the plumber who worked their ass off and ended up with a plumbing company with 20 plumbers isn't a common or working man.?


You are sick.

You don't seek the American dream. You hold it against the people who found it, no matter that they do.


Go away.

You are a sad individual when you take the side of big business over the common worker at every turn and then try to flip the script to act as though it's the small businessman you actually care about. And i'll give you the words of FDR to think about.....


If the plumber with 20 employees isn't following this, then he doesn't deserve to have a business. But I'm pretty sure he is. You really need to stop pretending that you're missing the point.

This is a cancer on America. Stinking thinking. Somebody who can’t see the forrest for the trees. So brain washed they’ve lost all perspective. Only MAGA, is their answer. This is why I don’t respond to them 99.9% of the time when they sling mud at progressive stances. They are simply not valid voices in democracy, they are only here to destroy everything that is not MAGA atrocious. They are relics from the past that have no relevance in the here and now other than being a thorn in the paw of our democracy. Fast forward 50 years and their ideology will be extinct. They know this and feel they actually have a chance to avoid their fate. thankfully, they have ZERO chance.

Wow. Don’t pick on my money… smfh. Petty af.

Everybody works for their money.

Anyone that does not know the difference between a communist and socialist should not waste their time on political forum board.

They teach that stuff in middle school... sheesh.

I guess it matters more if you live in say Sweden or Russia, but those Americans earn their reputation of being just dumb.

Call them what you want. I'll call them what I want. Any difference isn't worth the differentiation. Both want government control over everything. Our government has gone way beyond the parameters of the constitution. If socialist makes you folks feel better about yourself, fine, but then again, I go back to USSR.

Are you cool with the GOPs embrace of Putin, and being anti helping Ukraine? Because Putin is a USSR throwback and an ex-commie dictator. Do your words often fail you while looking in the mirror? Because I’m seeing a fail. And BTW- I said somebody with Bernie’s INTEGRITY. There are few on either side that measure up. We just keep electing self-serving hyenas and snakes willing to do NOTHING to make meaningful change for the working class. NOTHJING.

Why do you just make stuff up? GOP's embrace of putin? Really? Anti helping Ukraine? Really? What are you on? Oh, the government dole. Got it.

You can call a pig a cow but that rump roast will still be a ham. "Calling then what you want" still doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. So you want unbridled capitalism where things were like they were in the 20's and 30's for American workers. You point out quite aptly what MAGA means.

What? You’re nuts. Kick rocks.

Just another example of a GOPer who has no idea what his leaders are up to. You are the problem in this country arch, you and people like you. Truly clueless.

I never said I was for laissez faire type system.

I have never seen you post anything to the contrary.