DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus January 6th Fallout part 7

When the public sees reactions as extreme as yours, that's why democrats are having such a hard time getting the independent vote these days. You know, the people who actually decide elections? About one third of voters are Dems. About one third are GOP and the other third are independent. When they see such extremist rhetoric it causes them to wonder if people such as yourself are actually any better than trump supporters. "KILL, KILL, KILL!" That sounds exactly like the extremist remarks you rail against. I guess for you that all depends where such remarks come from and not the disgusting content of such remarks.

And people like you live in the past were there were decent people on both sides. Wake up and look around. Half the right wants all out civil war, not to get along and work it out. And their leaders keep them worked up wanting to destroy people like you and I. But hey, we should be totally irrational and just overlook all that so you can feel good about not amplifying the hate that’s oozing out across the world from the MAGA right…

Where I come from, you cut the cancer out.

In case you missed it, extremists in both directions are not "my boys". I don't play follow the leader. So you think what it means to be a "friend" is to blindly agree with people without question? Without your own POV even when you disagree? That's the same thing Vers thought because we met and had lunch together. He thought that suddenly I would play follow the leader. It didn't work for him and it won't work for you. I'll agree with you about what we agree on and disagree with you on what we disagree on. I have respect for many on here who disagree with me. I don't label everyone who doesn't kiss my ass all the time as my enemy. I actually have a sense of sympathy for those that do.

A lot of my friends are republicans. They aren't trumpians but they are republicans. Branch out a little bit. There's a great big world out there. Become a part of it.

No bro, what I think is that you have nothing more important to do than to come on here and look for any tidbit that you can latch onto to pick a fight with somebody every damn day. You fight with these guys 100 times more than anybody else on the left. And us extremist as you label us, just see the world for what it has become, not what you wish it still was…

First you say this....


And in the next breath admit that it's only half of them. Or are you saying the half that doesn't want a civil war aren't "decent people" too?



I'm wondering if you really look at things in anything close to an unbiased manner at any point in time? I'll use the budget as an example. It's a very small portion of lawmakers that are using extremist ideology in an attempt not to pass a spending plan. I'm not a fan of the MAGA right. I have never stood up for nor supported the MAGA right. But claiming everyone who entered the capital that day is responsible for or should be sentenced as if they committed murder or treason just sounds nuts to most people. Most people who are NOT MAGA.

We should all do what I've advocated we should do. Arm ourselves and be prepared. I've always felt that way whether it was to be prepared for any enemy attack foreign or domestic.

I understand what you're saying. In part I agree with you in terms of MAGA. The only problem that you aren't considering is that if you go full nuts on them, you will only help to reinforce what they have claimed all along. What I don't want to do is act in manner that will make their ranks grow faster than poring water on a Gremlin. And what you are advocating would accomplish exactly that. Sometimes strategy is smarter than a flame thrower.

That's the best tactic you can take at this point when you can't really do anything other than attack the messenger. You think people should form their klans and follow along blindly or something is wrong with them. Well you do you. And there's a lot of that going around these days. That's why when you won't align with extremists on either side you find yourself disagreeing with a lot of people on both sides. That's your real issue here. I don't fall in line.

See, I stopped arguing or even giving a damn what you say like 3 posts ago. Yet here you are trying your best to continue arguing. I think it may be an actual addiction for you now. Sorry you can’t see it.

But to your point of not making their ranks grow; it’s been harsh criticism and being ostracized that’s separated the decent republicans from the MAGA people and shrunk their ranks. If we even remotely act like what they are doing or have done is acceptable, or some how not as bad as it is, then they win. Do you want that? Do you want to compromise and find the middle ground between a free democracy and an authoritarian fascist regime? If so, who is the extremist radical again? This ideology has to be stomped out like a colony of fire ants in your britches. Nothing good will come from even letting one tiny piece of that ideology survive. FFS, even if Trump vanished tomorrow never to be seen or heard from again, we’ll still be generations reprogramming all the hate he has created. I don’t get any man that wants to cozy up to that. And you have never heard me say all republicans are bad. Never. I don’t care about the non-trump supporters on the right or center, they are mostly just decent folk with differing beliefs. But all things MAGA must go and the sooner the better. IMO.

And until Trump is not the overwhelming choice of the right, I’ll be treating them all, those willing to vote for him, like MAGA Traitors, because support that man makes you one IMO.

Yet here you are continuing. It sounds like you are a heroin addict accusing someone else of being a junkie.

No, don’t mistake me telling you how I see it as trying to argue with you. You’re calling me extremist and don’t even remotely understand how I feel on most of it. I like a bunch of the guys on the right here, but I don’t want to buddy up to them if they support or are willing to vote for Trump or MAGA. That actually makes them my political and personal beliefs enemies. I won’t hate them if they are sucked in, but I won’t sugarcoat how I feel either. If they support him in anyway, I want nothing to do with them.

You do understand what I'm talking about is both you and Daman's "extremist views" on the sentencing you are both claiming should be carried out for "everyone who entered the capital on Jan. 6th", right?

Not only would all Republicans disagree with you, but the vast majority of Independent voters as well as many Democrats. In terms of the idea of either all of them either being sentenced to life in prison or the firing squad, that idea isn't popular and isn't getting any more popular. So yes, as it pertains to the topic and subject at hand, that is an extremist view.

I never said anything about all who entered. I said we used to hang traitors. And I think your views on how to deal with those who threaten America and her democracy are weak af. So roll that up and kumbaya with it while you hide at home with your guns waiting for truble to come to your door. I prefer the go into the streets and take them out method of dealing with them.

And I get that many of those people were duped. They shouldn’t be treated harshly. But Trump and company should have met harsh justice at least a year ago or sooner, IMHO. You know, the traitors who wanted to take YOUR country from you and turn it into New Gilead with a twist of PUTINesque fascism. Oh, but lets make sure we treat them fairly…

Treating them fairly would be ending them quickly in my book.

Oh and lest we forget, if those insurrectionists had been BLM, they would have met justice that day with their lives.

Yeah, 10-22 year sentences are "weak af". Sometimes I wonder if you even hear yourself. BTW- I'm not "hiding with my guns". I carry one.

"I prefer the go into the streets and take them out method of dealing with them.". Let me know when you actually do this instead of spouting off about it on a message board. I'll wait. And when you do you will appear to be exactly like the very people you profess to hate who attempted to do the same thing.

Compared to forfeiting their lives, yes, weak af. But I get where your coming from, you don’t even call them traitors, you don’t have military justice values, and you don’t believe being a traitor is a crime worthy of a death penalty. Got it. Call me old fashion. Hell I’d settle for just having them exiled never to return. But 10 years for trying to end our democracy? I’ve seen 10 years handed out over weed distribution, that’s a harmless victimless offense in 99% of cases. Traitors being jailed should face 25 to life at minimum IMO. Under a fascist Trumpian regime, they would kill us for just being dems.

American criminal court is not military court. They are not being court marshalled in a military court and are not a part of our military. I'm glad that you think you know better than a judges and prosecutors know in terms of sentencing guidelines according to what they've been charged with.

So they all got sweetheart deals like Hunter Biden did? You are sounding just like.......... well you know.

I never said it was, I said a military justice mindset. Being a traitor is among the worst things you can be in the military. And during wartime, it’s punishable by death. We were in a war at the time when J6 occurred. And I never said I know better. I spoke how I feel about it, get that? Or is speaking your mind/opinion against the centrist code?

Did I miss something? What sweetheart deal did Hunter Biden get for gods given right to cheat on taxes, snort coke, and own a gun?

It's the exact same thing Republicans were saying before the judge refused the plea deal proposed by the prosecutor. And Hunter wasn't facing 10-22 years. Now OCD is acting like 10-22 year sentences is some kind of slap on the wrist. Eerily familiar in their tone.

No I didn’t. I said we used to hang traitors. That is what got your panties in a twist. Get it right.

FYI - I’m good with the 20 year sentences, if were not going to truly hold them to account. But I bet Trump who created the whole mess won’t get 20 years. And if anyone is a traitor, it’s him.

You have railed that they are traitors and should be sentenced as such. You claim 10-22 year sentences are light. People used to own slaves too.

They are light compared to what it should have been for an attempted coup. But like I said in the other thread, I’m done with your petty ass attack, kick rocks.

Let’s just say we ain’t talking apples to apple here.

You know…Coke, taxes and a gun that was never used in a crime. …vs…. A violent vicious armed attack on our nations capitol where people were killed. Threatening our democracy. Big differences here.

If I'm extreme, they so much be the framers of the constitution


Because you think it's extreme, doesn't make it so.

To come to such a conclusion one must look at the opinion of average people with no party affiliation or loyalty to one tribe or the other. But then not everyone is willing to do that.

Do you mean the same founders who owned slaves, thought only male, white property owners should vote and the same men whose words on guns you wish to dispute? I see you have chosen the "pick and choose" method of framing the founders of the constitution.

Pit is a radical extremist centrist bro. Everything has to be the way he thinks it should be at all times or he is triggered.

I'm sorry that it bothers you to find out I don't belong to "your tribe". That understanding not all the political problems in this country are caused by one side or the other. Only you are triggered. Someone who claims they don't care what I'm posting about it and to kick rocks but just can't seem to stop themselves from continuing on. You see, I didn't even respond to you and you still can't help yourself.

I'm sorry you can't or refuse to see yourself as the flip side of the coin to right wing extremists. I'm pretty sure most people on this board do. You see, just think about it. You despise right wing extremists. You despise moderates. Right wing extremists despise left wing extremists and moderates. That's the very definition of the other side of the coin. What you have done is isolate yourself with extreme left wing ideology yet can't seem to see you're on the far left extreme. You have placed yourself in quite the conundrum without even realizing it. You still can't come to grips that when you exclude yourself from everyone but "your tribe" you'll never win anything. For someone who abhores isolationism, you are doing it yourself.

hopefully if you insist on continuing you can come up with something more substantial than this type of brainless babbling. You sound like trump......

Yes! Do we follow their lead today? Yes we do, so try as you might to discredit them (and I don't like the slave owner stuff either) but they are overall, regarded as the founding fathers of America as we know it.

Life was different then. They didn't live by the sensibilities that we live by today.. Thinking was 1000 different..

To argue that following the constitution is a good thing then turn around and disagree because of this means you aren't thinking things over completely

Of course, that's JMO

Lkmao@u

Your are so full of yourself it’s pathetic. You think your cornball centrist views are America’s views and people like me ruin your little fantasy world Kumbayaland. Yet hardly anyone agrees with you, that’s evident here every damn day.

Yeah, 10 to 22 year sentences is Kumbaya. Do you even hear yourself?

Let me tell you what the forefathers couldn't do. They couldn't see into the future. That's why some of the things they said and were included in the constitution doesn't make sense today. What I don't do is try to claim that they could see into the future about some things but could see into the future about other things. The constitution has been amended 27 times as a result.


Yet that's exactly what you're doing. You're showing that they had no power to see into the future and then claiming that they would call what we saw in Jan. 6th as treason. And I think you're making a reach of epic proportions which there's no way could be proven in a court of law. According to your claim, treason would be trying to "overthrow the government". I didn't see anything that would meet that threshold on Jan. 6th. I did however see a group try to stop the peaceful transition of power. They weren't "armed to the teeth" trying to take over power. They weren't storming the capital with AK-47's.

If you wish to look at legal precedent as your guide or how this has been handled in our nation's history you need look no further than the Civil War. While Jefferson Davis and 37 others were first charged with treason, President Andrew Johnson pardoned them all and they never even went to trial. There's no way you can compare Jan. 6th to the civil war and history has already spoken.

Oh for cryin out loud. Are you suggesting that back in the day, they wrote that traitors should be hanged they were wrong? Or are you saying that slavery was wrong.

Make up your mind

I explained it in a way a six year old could understand it. I'm saying that people find it convenient to say the founding fathers were out of touch on issues they disagree with them on and then turn around and point to how wise they were on issues they do agree with them on. I pointed out that if anyone was guilty of treason it was the Confederates who actually had their own government and military who attacked America and started a war killing over 110,000 American troops and wounded over 275,00. Even then treason was not used to convict them. That's called a case of precedent.

The people who were the driving force behind Jan. 6th have been given sentences ranging from 10 to 22 years in prison. I believe those who do not think that is sufficient are more concerned about exacting their pound of flesh than are concerned about justice.

Not really responding directly to you, but the whole idea of traitors.

The forefathers were essentially traitors to England. I'm not sure how the forefathers would see the events of January 6th. They may see traitors, but I'm not entirely sure which side of the lines they would see themselves on. They might see the current government as traitors to the ideals that they tried to establish. The forefathers were rebels that overthrew colonial control in armed rebellion. They could very well see more of themselves in the protestors than the Washington elite.

At the same time, the forefathers didn't overthrow England in an attempt to enthrone a new "King"/Trump.

They'd probably be disgusted with both sides.

But which side tried to overthrow our democracy?

No, it’s not BOTH sides, it’s MAGA dolts. The forefathers might not like what we’ve become, almost assuredly so, but they could distinguish between politicians and traitors. Trump is the latter and would have been executed or exiled back then.

And I feel the need to give the stink eye to ANYONE who defends the J6 insurrection and attempted coup. Traitors breed more traitors, that’s why you deal with them harshly.

I disagree with you do to motive. In no way do I think the founding fathers would approve of spreading lies and conspiracies to undermine an election and use that as motivation to interfere with and overturn a fair and free election.

Jan. 6 fugitive who assaulted officers was captured by the FBI after returning home

Christopher Worrell, a Florida Proud Boy, was added to the FBI Wanted list after he fled just ahead of his scheduled sentencing last month. He was convicted in May.

WASHINGTON — A Florida Proud Boy convicted of assaulting law enforcement officers with pepper gel spray was captured by the FBI on Thursday night after he went on the lam just ahead of his scheduled sentencing last month.

Christopher Worrell was arrested "when he attempted to covertly return to his home" in Naples, Florida, the FBI's Tampa Field Office said in a statement.

"FBI agents quickly surrounded and then entered the residence. They discovered the 52-year-old unconscious and immediately provided medical attention," the statement said. Worrell remains at an area hospital, the FBI said.

Night-vision goggles, $4,000 in cash and survivalist gear were found inside Worrell's residence, according to the FBI, which thanked the Collier County Sheriff’s Office for their assistance with the arrest.

Worrell had been convicted on seven counts at a bench trial before U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth in May. Prosecutors were seeking a sentence of 14 years in federal prison, which would be among the longest sentences given to a Jan. 6 defendant to date. The longest sentence so far was given to former Proud Boys chairman Enrique Tarrio, who received 22 years in federal prison after being convicted of seditious conspiracy.

Worrell, prosecutors wrote in their sentencing memo, arrived in Washington, D.C., on Jan. 6 "ready for battle, wearing body armor, and carrying pepper gel spray and a large radio" and then "spewed vitriol for half an hour at the overwhelmed officers restraining the mob" before assaulting officers with pepper spray.

"When confronted with this conduct at trial, Worrell showed no remorse. Instead, though under oath, he spun falsehood after incredible falsehood in an effort to deflect responsibility and cast himself as a hero intervening to protect the police. He told these lies without shame," prosecutors wrote. "Worrell’s dishonesty on the stand was only one of many instances where he has apparently lied to benefit himself or to escape responsibility for his own misconduct."

An attorney for Worrell did not immediately respond to a request for comment from NBC News.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ju...s-captured-fbi-returning-home-rcna118102

When all the choices are bad, it's not really much of a democracy.

Is trying to set police stations (government buildings) on fire really that different from doing similar to a (government) building in the capital?

I see bad cops and bad politicians in much the same light. Yet, I'm not saying to threaten either. I'm saying we should replace them with better.

Those that resort to violence should be "punished" regardless of who that violence is against. (Punished may not be the best word, though definitely stopped/corrected, and the reason for said violence should be examined and, if needed, addressed.)

At the same time, I understand how crappy governance has often led to armed insurrection. It's a thorny problem. Do you want to "punish" the American Revolutionaries for their rebellion against England? Should we describe them as traitors?

While we have a "democracy," I believe that it is a far cry from what those that fought to make it possible envisioned. And it's even further from what it potentially could and should be.

I don't see you making a relative comparison. The revolutionary war was due to not having a government they chose to vote for or select in order to represent them. Today it seems that the problem is people don't like losing an election because they don't like who was elected to represent them. Those two things are not comparable. And while I certainly agree that anyone using violence in the circumstances you posted deserve to be convicted and sentenced under the law, yes, trying to overthrow an election is far different than, and a direct threat to our election process and the peaceful transfer of power. While the other certainly was not. While both were wrong and deserved to be prosecuted, trying to make these things sound similar really doesn't fly.

But do we really have a choice in who we ultimately get to vote for? Or are we simply presented with choices pulled from modern day "royalty?" Is it an actual democracy or a sham democracy? Most citizens don't have the financial backing/personal wherewithal to effectively run a nationwide campaign. Instead of marrying into royal families you have to join (effectively) "royal" parties to have a chance to "rule."

Is it a perfect analogy? No, but perfection is generally unreachable.

Clearly, I don't think replacing one "Party boy" with another is a good solution.

"Election process and peaceful transfer of power" are lipstick on a pig at this point. The power isn't leaving the parties/"modern royal families."

While the targets were different, the methods ("the actions") were similar, and thus provoked my tangential thoughts.