DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Jedrick Wills. Time to crown him a bust

I'm not arguing against any of that. Its just not what you wrote in the initial post I replied to.

I'm not sure I'd want to go Baker right now, but Watson has played poorly enough to make it a discussion. I'm not sure Baker would have survived the game against Pitt. Pass protection was rough.

We did pick up his 5th year option like $14.5 million so he will here unless we trade him.

But I have a question, once that option was picked up, can we get out of it? Other than a trade?

Just a trade or eat his contract (unless he agrees to somehow restructure, which I doubt)

Shoot, I must've gotten my years mixed up. I was thinking this year was #5.


My overall point, though, was that he does have some skills... but if he's our best tackle on the roster then we need to find a better tackle.

I think the strip sack TD play where he got beat looks a lot worse than it really is. I was ready to be done with him after watching it live, like most people. After hearing the context, I'm feeling like I should probably cut him a little slack. Asking a guy to block a pass rusher while aligned as if it is a running play when that guy knows it is a pass is tough.

I would think it would also be important to note that after 2 years of being a Pro Bowl RT, Wirfs has been switched to LT this season for Tampa. After 2-weeks, Wirfs is the 14th PFF Graded Tackle overall, the 10th PFF Graded Left Tackle overall, and the 5th graded LT in the NFC currently.

Meanwhile, after two weeks, Wills is the 66th PFF Graded Tackle overall, the 35th PFF Graded Left Tackle overall, the 17th PFF Graded Left Tackle in the AFC, and the lowest PFF Graded LT in the AFC North.

Side Note: only players rated with enough snaps to qualify was used. Wills 2-week PFF Grade = 45.0 - Wirfs 2-week PFF Grade = 75.2

It might be time to fess up that the Browns missed big time on Wills.

j/c

I think the Browns were put in a situation of their own making. They won't have a first round draft pick next year with which they could have upgraded the LT position. And as of last year Willis was graded quite a bit higher then he is this year. So their choice was to either sign Willis fifth year option or try to hit the FA market to replace him which would have been much more expensive to accomplish. Not to mention finding a viable option on the FA market at LT is not something one can often do. And what would have been very hard for anyone to have predicted is that he would take a step backwards going into this season. So if you look at what they did in real time rather than hind sight it made sense at the time IMO.

Misses happen and there have definitely been worse misses. Wirfs and Thomas have gotten a lot better between college and now. Wills hasn't. I think trying to imitate the inimitable Joe Thomas has messed up a bunch of Browns blockers. I also think Jed suffers from playing on a relatively good line. Teams attack the weak link or, at least if there is a weaker link, pressure tends to show up there first. The rest of the Giants OL is pretty bad. Tom Brady was one of the best in the business in getting the ball out early. I'm curious to see how things in Tampa Bay turn out with Baker and some OL losses against teams better than the Chicago Bears.

Even if what you say is true, it's BS to now give the Browns a pass. They had 2 opportunities the year they drafted Wills to fix the broken LT issue. First, Trent Williams was available but much like many posters here - they were ignoring the best LT in football due to the cost even though the Browns were flush in money. I took a lot of grief on this forum when I was campaigning vividly for the Browns to trade for him. 4-years later, Williams SFO has been the best LT in football for 4 years running, a 1st Team All Pro - we have Wills. Second, the Browns had an opportunity to get Wirfs, a guy who actually had LT experience but instead they drafted Wills who had never played a down at LT in high school or college. Our GM said, "tackles are tackles!" It's not like it wasn't evident in year 1 and year 2 that there was a problem with Wills. Instead, the Browns hung with him to the point of as you said, replacing him would have been much more expensive to accomplish. So now we have one of the worst LT's in the NFL with a guaranteed contract for 2024 at over 14M. Let's just hope our 230M QB doesn't get smoked by a missed block from that LT and join Chubb on the sidelines. Uh hmmm, tackles are not tackles, Mr. Berry.

I don't see anywhere that I said they made the best draft pick at the time. I even went as far as to say that they were "in a situation of their own making". So I'm not really sure who it is you're arguing with here. The only point I was addressing is the position they were in and why they signed him to that fifth year option at that time. And once again I didn't blame anyone but them for being in that situation. Did you read my post at all?

If you compare him to a guy taken after him in Tristan Wirfs, yes he is a complete bust.

The problem with your Trent Williams scenario is that you don't know whether or not they tried to get him to come to Cleveland. The problem with veterans vs rookies is that veterans have a lot more say in where they go. Plus they'd have had to trade multiple picks as well as giving the 6 year over $137 Million contract to a guy coming off a DSFP cancer scare.

Wirfs was only playing LT at Iowa in the beginning of 2019 because their starting LT was hurt, he ended up playing 161 snaps there. Most of the season he spent at RT (693 snaps.) Its hard to blame people for thinking he was a better RT than LT when his college team did as well. Plus, he graded better on the right side.

While Jed was an RT, his situation was somewhat unique in having a left handed QB for most of his college career. They were probably also swayed in a close race by things like this:


It's easy to look back in hindsight and say they screwed up. Yet, situation matters. It's impossible to actually tell how things would have ended up if players had landed on different teams. It certainly looks like they got it wrong now, but hopefully they've learned from it and have refined their process. Jones looks decent so far. (though he may have been more of a gamble given his draft position.) We'll see how it turns out.

Tackles picked in the first round of 2020

4 Andrew Thomas - Giants
10 Wills - Browns
11 Mekhi Becton - Jets
13 Wirfs - Tampa Bay
18 Austin Jackson - Miami
29 Isaiah Wilson - Titans


Also the same year 32 Buckeys went 1-2-3

At least we didn't draft Wilson.

Didn't they do that? Restructure I mean?

Yes, they restructured Wills, but it was this year's salary. The Browns cannot restructure his guaranteed 5th year option. Just a little FYI, because of this year's restructure, the Browns are on the hook for $457,353 charged to the cap each of the next 4 years if he stays with the Browns. The Browns cannot do anything with the 5th year guarantee now and any extension would start after next season even if they signed him now. In any case, only an idiot would ever sign a deal for less than his option year cost so I'd expect a new deal would probably start at 15M plus per season but he'll most likely be asking in the area of 18M-20M plus minimum range per season. The NYGiants just extended LT Andrew Thomas to a new 5-year deal in July that pays him 23.5M APY starting the year after his option which is also next year. I fully expect Wills to be asking close to the same range since that seems to be the going rate for LT's second contract. It's very scary to think that the Browns could be paying Wills over 22M per season for the body of work he's delivered thus far.

Wills is not a bust. He has been a starter all of his career. Busts carry the names of Manzell, Richardson, Quinn etc. etc.

I thought he played well today.

I sure hope we are are grooming a replacement.

That one hit was clearly late, and it was called.

Jed's biggest problem is he followed Joe Thomas.

Is Jed a great player? No

Is he a bad player? No

He's an OK player.

We re starting to see the same damn thing with Ford after a couple of games, where he played well.

Is he better than Chubb/ No


Is he better than hunt? yes?

Players change over time for one reason or another. Fans need to adjust to those changes and quit living in the past.

Good gosh.

Jed's problem is consistency, which will probably be traced to something that's up between the ears or deep in the chest cavity.

Dude puts everything you would want to see on tape. He clearly has the skills, technique, yada yada. But then for a handful of random plays the hourglass cursor is just stuck spinning. This phenomenon has reached the stage where it's brought up every game.

how did Jones grade yesterday? I truthfully haven't noticed him much at all

What do you want Wills to do on the first one? I think Bitonio needed to do a better job getting back to pick up the looper on the stunt after passing off the crashing DT. That is easier said than done and that's a reason defenses run stunts.

It would be nice to see some emotion on the 2nd one. I kind of wonder if he's dealing with depression. It could explain some things with his performance. It's easy to forget that they are people that deal with things in their lives while we're focused on the football.

It's hard to tell much of anything from stills. It doesn't look good, but what led up to it?

With Hunt (ribs, groin), Ford (shoulder) and Bitonio (ankle) all being a little banged up, the Browns offense may become more one dimensional. That means the Browns will have to rely on the vaulted o-line to protect a sore Watson (throwing shoulder). Though the Browns are an exciting 2-1, questions abound around the strength of the o-line that appears to have some cracks.

PFF Grades through 3-weeks:

OT Conklin (IR)__ 74.5 (not enough snaps played to rank = 22 snaps)
OC Harris_______74,2 (not enough snaps played to rank = 5 snaps)
OC Pocic________70.8 (ranked 5th of all OC's)
OG Teller________66.9 (ranked 15th of all OG's)
OG Bitonio______64.9 (ranked 20th of all OG's)
OG Dunn_______55.2 (not enough snaps played to rank = 11 snaps)
OT Jones (R)____52.4 (ranked 55th of all OT's)
OT Wills________47.3 (ranked 63rd of all OT's)
OT Hudson______43.1 (not enough snaps played to rank= 4 snaps)

We might be seeing a whole lot more of 12 personnel to protect the O-tackles the next 2 games. What effect this will have on the passing offense remains to be seen.

we need our guards to be better, and that's not something I remember thinking in a while

Its curious seeing PPF posts about how good Dawand Jones has been through three games and then see a 52. Must have a super low run blocking score according to them.

Wills is very frustrating. He has the ability he needs to motivate himself or be motivated.

He has been a decent LT prior to this season.
But, each year we hope to see him step up and be more consistent.

This season through 3 games he has been worse than the previous years.

Like a DEAD HORSE........ No Heart/ Drive.

Still early and he may improve, but he has declined.

Jed Wills is as bad as many of the excuses given for him here in the comments.

Good grief!

He reminds me of what I refer to in my nursing career as a ‘task nurse’. These nurses are good nurses when assigned a particular task. Starting an IV. Doing a wound treatment. Etc. But they don’t have the intuition or instinct to go beyond. They don’t recognize the subtle changes in a patient that may be early indicators of a looming problem. They can complete a task but can’t see the bigger picture.
Jed is a task tackle. If he’s assigned to a certain block, he does his best to get it done. Once he’s ‘done’, or beat, or the structure of the play breaks down, he’s lost. He can’t problem solve in real time.
This is not a good trait in nursing or football.

I dunno. IIRC, I thought we really wanted Thomas. He had a horrific rookie season but I thought I read he's come on strong since then. Regardless, he was picked before we were up and I don't think even hindsight could justify moving up in that draft.

With all the hand-wringing we did over Wills moving from RT to LT, I can't imagine drafting Wirfs for a tackle spot.

That leave Becton. He's been plagued with injuries but has otherwise played really well (I think?).


Wills is what he is. People are fed up with him, but the dude has talent just hasn't finished putting it together between the ears. There's value in a guy that's fringe starting-LT caliber... especially considering the left side might not be his best/natural fit.

I think there's room for improvement/shuffling in terms of our tackles, but the play coming from the middle of the line is more urgent.

Yeah, the OT draft was kind of a crap shoot that year. Wirfs was probably the right pick, though having him change sides (IIRC) wasn't ideal ... but we did it with Wills anyways