DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kevin Stefanski

Yes, Cleveland media always seems eager to drive off coaches. Can't really blame them as a large segment of the fan base seem to eat it up.

WITCH HUNT!

His stubbornness and unwillingness to evolve invite to criticism. It’s a result base business and right now he’s tending to be an underachiever with lack of self awareness of why he’s not succeeding.

The businessmen shipped the only qualified backup QB on the roster off to the Cardinals with a seventh round pick for a fifth round pick. I mean if you wish to talk about the business end of things.

The offense has evolved. Just not in the way Jake wanted it to. As he admitted, when they tried, it failed miserably. Unfortunately, fans and ownership haven't shown the patience to go through the kind of transition he is asking for.

Kevin's trying to get there but is doing it over time. Unfortunately, you can't just wave a wand and be perfectly running an entirely new offense. Transitioning is even harder when players seem suddenly unable to run the offense they had been good at. Throw in turnovers and penalties, and you've got a tough job.

A head coach who don’t have the necessary power or are to institutionalized to intervene in a risky business decision that could potentially end his job is also probably not enough competent and experienced either to create a functional winning culture where other players and coaches step forward and helps with keeping the team spirit high inside the dressing room and making sure everybody contributing with outstanding work ethic and belief so they can short term handle serious injuries to key players without them totally falling apart.

I said in another thread that what we see in these situations is often what can expect in the future if we keep the same leadership to making key decisions. Results don’t lie.

I don’t really care about SKI, but IMO Baker was never the issue. But here we are.

If things don't get better on offense, we are going to miss the playoffs. I don't know what that means but, something has to change.

we aren't going to make the playoffs ... we had our chance and blew two games in the division within the first 4 weeks of the season AND lost our best offensive player for the year.

They are not a playoff team, ..unless they start playing better.

If Watson plays 6 more games all year, and goes 4 and 2,
He is 2 and one currently , that's five and 3, but what about the other seven games he probably won't play in?
The Browns with @uestionable @uarterback play can often, over the years...... go 2 and five,
they are 0 and one now, in games Watson didn't play,

That would be five and 3 with Watson, 2 and 6 without him, 8 and nine overall, about eleventh place in the afc, and no playoff berth, ... a great story and, so much hope for next year b/c five and 3 with him, .. so much.

How many more games this year is Watson going to play??

I know the offense wasn't perfect the week Kevin Stefanski was in a covid @uarantine and the Browns won a playoff game,
but I thought enough of it to mention that day again here.
Chubb that day had receiving and running yards about seventy and eighty for a large total of all purpose yards.

We can conclude they laid an egg in the one game, in about 80 that first place in the AFC North was on the line at the start of October,
Aside from maybe the years two thousand seven,
00 to two thousand one,

nineteen ninety five, and
nineteen eighty nine, or before then, they've only had 4 opportunities,

the ravens are there nearly every blasted year, we can conclude that.

you can overlook it if you want, but last week was not just another game, .....
ehhhh if you care about winning. If winning is the number one priorit, NUMBER ONE priority.

If the offense has evolved under Kevin's time,
b/c I'm not sure, ... well he got rid of the fullback...

can anyone go into detail on how the offense has evolved since , well the end of twenty nineteen

I don't think it has evolved. Actually, it's been relatively stagnant.

All those head coaches the media has "driven off" have gone on to do great things! Shurmur, Jackson, Mangini, Chud, Pettine, Palmer, Davis... quit blaming the media for an incompetent organization.

There is no sports media softer than the Cleveland sports media. It's softball question after softball question 95% of the time.

The problem is that without improved results our tactical evolution hasn’t been good enough compared to our rivals. From the eye test it often just look like we don’t react to what’s in front of us and continues with concepts that seemingly doesn’t work.

Questions, sure. Articles and radio shows not so much. Some of that is just the state of modern media in general and not Cleveland specific. Bad news get eyeballs. Is it not a pattern?

What concepts that haven't worked have we continued to use? It sounds "good," I guess. I'm not convinced it's accurate. How many times have we repeated these concepts? What were their success rates?

We're still trying out a bunch of different things to figure out what works.

If the concept is passblocking, I guess it's kind of true, though concept isn't usually used in that context. Unfortunately, passblocking is something teams have to be able to do in this league. If a team isn't doing it well, just about any pass concept will fail. Same for runblocking and run concepts. Miss a block and plays fail.

Year 4 and the same questions occur each year about Stefanski. No innovation, zero adjustments, very predictable play calling, and a systemic offensive system not geared to player strengths. Two separate podcasts (above and here) stating the same thing that has been happening for 3 plus years now. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

For me this is exactly the issue. It's not a one game issue that's only surfaced this week with a back up QB - it's a pattern of behaviour and a frequently repeated set of fails that KS has exhbited in his time as HC. On top of that - we're regressing with the record not getting better based on wins and loses. On top of that his signature win as a Browns HC he was locked in his basement and someone else was calling and managing the game.

The issues I feel that KS continues to exhibit -

- Gets pass happy way too easily - even when we had a game where Chubb was running at an average over 8 yards per carry. Even in games with a lame duck injured QB who clearly couldn't throw the ball. Even with a rookie QB thrown in late with not sufficient prep time with 1 st team reps.

- Regardless of the success rate of 4th downs - which in 2 years when the Browns were top 10 in going for it on 4th downs - our success rates were well below the NFL averages. If the stats tell you that you go for it based on a down and distance on the field - it is based on your team being successful at the NFL average ... when you are 10-12-15% less likely to be successful on a 4th and short than the rest of the NFL - then you should go for it less. That didn't happen.

- Part of the problem on 4th downs and in general - KS has gotten away at simply doing what the team is really good at and tries to get cute and outsmart the other HC.... but just ends up looking foolish.

- Game management has got better, but we had 2 full season's of inept game management with poor challenges and failure to execute an urgent/hurry up offense when trailing or buring time outs at inappropriate times, or not using them when it would make sense.

- Play calling (virtually) never gets adjusted at half time. KS hasn't won games by making adjustments like you see other HC's managing to make. Whether it falls under game management or not - We've seen Chubb on the sidelines at crucial moments in the 4th Q with the game on the line. You want your best players on the field at those moments, not on the sidelines. Overall I think we've spelled Chubb nicely and am okay with his touch totals - but I'm not okay with your best player(s) on the sidelines on crucial plays late in games.

- I'll never understand leaving injured Baker on an island with a rookie 3rd string right tackle going one on one vs TJ Watt. It happened on 4 straight plays if I remember correctly - two of which ended up in sacks with TJ tackling Baker as BM took his 3rd or maybe 4th step back. Again if memory serves it might have been a Monday night game and the Manning's were slamming the play calling. If it wasn't the Monday night game - then it was a regular Sunday game and the commentators questioned the play calling .... which would mean it was a different Monday night game where the Manning's were uber critical of Stefanski's play calling.

As a Brown's fan - I'll be happy to be proven wrong about KS if he somehow leads this team to success this year. But my opinion at this point is that he's not the answer and has risen beyond his ability and barring one Covid season, he's been below NFL aveerage or worse. I'd be doing everything I can to identify the next HC right now.

Berry seems to work his butt off every year identifying the Browns weaknesses and aggressively addressing them so the team can be successful. He has given the coach everything he could need to win games. But Stefanski struggles to win games, and he doesn't stack wins. He's very inconsistent. He usually gets out coached by the better coaches in the league.

Between the Jets loss last year and the start this year the organization has to start asking themselves can someone else do better. You owe it to the players. You owe it to the fans. The results speak for themselves. When the body of work becomes vast enough, you can no longer explain everything away with game to game rationalizations. The body of work is the body of work. He's the Baker Mayfield of coaches.

Just like some players are winners and some aren't, it's the same for coaches. Look at nick siriani. Guy inherited a very talented team like Stefanski. Had a question at QB with hurts. Their inaugural season they almost win it all. But it wasn't a flash in the pan. They are still finding a way to win in season two.

Sometimes you either got it or you don't. Stefanski helped bring some stability and helped right a rudderless ship. But he's not the guy to take you to the finish line, if he is being judged by the body of work. And with an expiration date on this talent, do you roll the dice and hope he figures it out or do you make a change. It's a tough call, but one they have to be evaluating.

And yet when things went well, the same people were talking about what a great play design the TD pass to Ford against Tennessee was, and how receivers were getting open.

People have a tendency to confuse results and process.

Yes, the results feel bad and familiar. Saying their has been no innovation or any adjustments just isn't accurate, though.

There is a difference between adjustments and repeated instant radical changes. People seem to expect the latter, but things just don't work that way. Reps and familiarity matter in football.

If we want to talk about failure to adjust, I'm looking at the OL. Teams have figured out how to exploit something we do up front. Callahan needs to figure out how to adjust to that. Sure, Kevin has some responsibility for that, but Callahan was supposed to be someone he was supposed to be able to lean on a bit.

For me, the big issue with KS is squarely within the "executive" portion of his job description. We seem to keep reverting back into these streaks of undisciplined, erratic play. When watching games, it feels like whenever we start establishing some sort of momentum, we ourselves are the ones that stop our own momentum (penalty, dropped pass, sack, etc). We also don't seem to be able to take a punch to the gut and respond during a game (ex. Steelers game).

I acknowledge that there are plenty of people who think KS also has schematic and playcalling issues. I disagree, but I also admit that I'm not exactly armed with the knowledge to debate the finer points of this. What I will say, though, is that wherever that falls on our list of weaknesses, it's not as urgent as what I'm describing below.

So your claim is we Stefanksi can "create a winning culture" with DTR at QB? Well alrighty then.

Do you mean like a HC who passes against a team with an excellent D stacking the box? Is that what not reacting to what's in front of you means?

The walls are closing in on Kevin.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re meaning but who’s playing or not has nothing to do with having a healthy and winning culture. That’s two separate things.

Reading lots about the O-line not being very good

Not seen any talk about Bill Callahan

Is he getting the job done ?

Hard to win when the battles in the trenches are

Collapsing

Our O-line is our Achilles heel for the rest of the season. We'll have to retool it in the offseason like we did the D-line last year.

I don't think it's a talent issue. I'm starting to wonder if it's a coaching issue. Callahan has a reputation as a good OL coach, but perhaps he's rested on his laurels and other teams have figured out a weakness in his methods. Can he adapt and find a solution? Fortunately, the bye is a decent time for problem solving.

This is the problem with always wanting to find a contrarian solution or angle - Calahan has a lifetime of being recognized as a top OL coach in the NFL, Stefanski has 4 years showing inconsistencies and some poor tendancies (like getting pass happy while having a premier RB and Good/V Good rub blocking OL) - and your posts seem to want to defend Stefanski rigorously and now speculate that the issue might be Calahan. I like challanging what might be the normal perspective and like looking for alternate thoughts and concepts but when you do that at some point you have to decide how probable the alternate angle is before you propose it as being likely/viable.

As one 'for example' - in the last 3 seasons how many times as a starting OL player gone out injured and a back up - sometimes a rookie - had to step in ? And how many times have we all been pleasantly surprised at how well that back up played? I'd say with the exception of a couple of really bad players - at least 50% of the time we've been pleasantly surprised at the level of play by the back up. I'd suggest that's an indicator of good coaching.

I read stuff like this and it drives me nuts. A large percentage of OL play is tied to QB play. We have had poor QB play in 3 of 4 games. You add on to that the playcalling has not adjusted for poor QB play and of course the OL is going to struggle. Defenses are going to continuously tee off on the line of scrimmage until you make them pay.

The OL is not an issue.

It's a long season.

Before the season started I thought we would be 3-1 with 2-2 the minimum benchmark we needed to hit. The game against the Niners will be tough. There is a possibility that we will go to 2-3. After that the schedule opens up a bit. If we beat the Niners, many will start talking Super bowl again.

I have some concerns like everybody else, but am not all that worried at this point. It will become critical if we don't win games during the easier stretch. At this point I can't say we lost games which we had no business losing. We know both the Steelers and Ravens always play hard against us. Those are always toss-up games. It will be imperative we win those games the 2nd go around.

At this point there are 13 games remaining. Of those game there are 8-9 that should be called winnable. We might not win them all, but might win some of the other 4-5. That puts us in the 10-11 win range. At the beginning of the season I think nearly everyone thought that was the range where we might fall.

No doubt we have to win those games, and address some of the concerns. I just think hitting the panic button at this juncture is a little premature.