DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ as Palestinian militants launch surprise air and ground attack from Gaza

Add to the fact too that Hamas takes no issue - actually promotes - with using civilians as human shields.

j/c...

I don't believe while "thou shalt not kill" is found in the Bible, that this is the basis for it being law. Things such as stealing and killing are common sense things that are practical far more than Biblical. But I think we're getting off the topic here. So to get back on track....

I believe we need to clarify who "they" are. I would certainly agree that the members of Hamas and even Hezbollah do not care about dying for their cause. But Gaza is a very small, densely populated area. And I do understand that Israel has no choice but to respond. However, I don't believe "they" represents the citizens of Gaza. I do think they care about whether they live or die. There is no possible way that Israel is bombing Gaza the way they have been without creating mass casualties among the general population of the Palestinians residing in Gaza. And it seems rather obvious they plan a ground invasion. that will create even more civilian casualties. Hamas is not in any way the the official military of Gaza and the west bank.

I understand why Israel has to do what they're doing. I understand this was a full scale attack on not only the Israeli government but a cowardly attack on the Israeli people themselves. There is nothing to excuse that. Yet at the same time I think we have to look at the actual ramifications that will result. Israel may actually be killing it's own citizens that are being held captive by Hamas with these bombings. So I have no issue with what Israel decides to do in response. I just hope people are clear that they too have no scruples with slaughtering Palestinian citizens for the actions of Hamas which those people can't control.

I'm not in the habit of jumping from one book of the bible to another in order to tray and explain things. I can take almost any book and take sentences and paragraphs from differrent chapters and passages from that book to string together any story I want it to tell.

It explains where the gold comes from. You specifically asked. I provided the answer.

And then we'll just jump back to Ezekiel to explain some other parts.

34-36 The people grabbed their bread dough before it had risen, bundled their bread bowls in their cloaks and threw them over their shoulders. The Israelites had already done what Moses had told them; they had asked the Egyptians for silver and gold things and clothing. God saw to it that the Egyptians liked the people and so readily gave them what they asked for. Oh yes! They picked those Egyptians clean.

There is your answer.

Actually it says "borrowed".

While it certainly didn’t help, I’m not sure how much impact the funds really had, especially since both nations are heavily funded by external forces. The price tag isn’t so much important as the effectiveness of what each side has purchased, if you will.

For example, a terror attack is gonna cost a lot less than going on defense. The cost of a terror attack, even as complex as this one, cost less to fund than creating and maintaining the iron dome.

It helps that you and North gave me some nice info so that I went into researching this with a more open mind. You know how militant I can get with issues like this. It’s hard to take a step back and look at this at a macro level.

Yes, in the King James. I used a modern translation the Message Bible.

So you just want to use a translation that says it in the terms you want it to read rather than the traditional version which doesn't. Got it.

No matter that debate, something to ponder.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/07/iran-praises-hamas-attack-israel-middle-east-00120491

We also have students at Harvard, Columbia and others claiming Israel is responsible for this.

Sickening. We have some work to do here at home.

The reaction from them and Tlaib, among others, is ridiculous.

Yes. How do you support Hamas when they butcher innocents. Those people are anti-american traitors for supporting enemies of this country and should be kicked out of Congress and inprisoned for treason.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/10/republicans-biden-iran-hamas-00120713


Allowing Iran access to the 6 billion improved its budget situation in categories like food etc and gave them more money that would be used to use places like these militant groups.

not a good look for Biden.

Well, I tried, in very basic examples, and english, to explain that to the board "master poster". It didn't work.

She and other squad members should be expelled from congress! Hate is all they bring to the office.

It's because people such as yourself have no idea how any of this works and don't care to learn how it works.

and people like yourself will argue that the sky isn't blue if certain people say the sky is blue.

Do you have any clue how the process works for them to get any of that money? Any at all? They weren't handed that 6 billion dollars. The process and how it works was posted on this board. Their use of that money is highly regulated and can only be used for humanitarian reasons. The funds are being kept in a bank in the UAE. So far they have used none of it. But I fully understand you wish to ignore all of that and promote falsehoods to the contrary.

On a personal note after what has transpired in Israel I hope they find a way to rescind them having any access to those funds and put that money back under sanctions.

Interesting immediate reaction.

Since when did calling for a war to de-escalate mean surrendering? The world we live in. Slow down killing civilians on both sides is now called surrendering?

Too bad he's just learning this now.....

It's certainly a two way street to some extent. Most things are. I'm still waiting to see how many white supremacists and self proclaimed Nazi's are registered Democrats and voted for Biden.

Israel forms emergency government and steps up Gaza offensive as brutality of Hamas attacks laid bare

Israel has formed an emergency government and war management cabinet, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and National Unity Party leader Benny Gantz jointly announced Wednesday, in the wake of Hamas’ surprise attacks on border communities that killed at least 1,200 people and injured thousands more.

Gantz, a former defense minister, will join Netanyahu and current defense minister Yoav Gallant in a “war management cabinet.”

The government will not pass any laws or make any decisions that do not concern the conduct of the war, the announcement said.

Israel has stepped up its offensive in Gaza following Hamas’ October 7 onslaught, when armed militants poured over the heavily-fortified border into Israel, raiding homes, rampaging through farms and communities and taking as many as 150 hostages back to Gaza.

Since Israel began airstrikes on the Palestinian enclave Saturday at least 1,055 people have been killed in Gaza, including hundreds of children, women, and entire families, according to the Palestinian health ministry. It said a further 5,184 have been injured.

Israel has ordered a “complete siege” on the enclave, including halting supplies of electricity, food, water and fuel. On Wednesday, Gaza’s only power station stopped working after running out of fuel, the head of the Gaza power authority Galal Ismail told CNN.

People are still able to use power generators, Ismail said, but with a blockade on all sides of the border, the fuel needed for the generators to work is running out.

The Palestinian health ministry warned that hospitals are set to run out of fuel on Thursday, leading to “catastrophic” conditions.

Brutal attacks

Days after Hamas launched its large-scale surprise assault on Israel, horrifying details are still emerging.

In Kfar Aza, a kibbutz in southern Israel, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) told CNN that militants carried out a “massacre” in which women, children, toddlers and elderly were “brutally butchered in an ISIS way of action.”

Less than 20 kilometers (12 miles) away, the farming community Be’eri was among the worst-hit, with more than 100 bodies recovered and eyewitnesses describing assailants going door to door, breaking into homes and executing civilians.

In retaliation for the atrocities, Israeli jets have been pounding Gaza – the densely-inhabited coastal strip that Hamas controls – with hundreds of airstrikes, reducing homes and neighborhoods to rubble and trapping residents, with many cut off from food and electricity.

The IDF has also bolstered troops and tanks along the border as speculation of a possible Israeli ground incursion into Gaza grows. An IDF spokesperson said Wednesday that it has massed 300,000 reservists near the border.

Israel’s Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said he has “released all restraints” for the IDF in their fight against Hamas, saying the response will permanently change Gaza.

“They will regret this moment – Gaza will never return to what it was,” Gallant said.

That has deepened fears that Palestinian civilian casualties will continue to rise in the days ahead as Israel responds to the worst attack on its territory in decades.

Dozens of Israeli fighter jets struck more than 70 targets in the Daraja Tuffah area of Gaza Wednesday, where the IDF claimed “a large number of terror attacks against Israel are directed.” The IDF also said it had struck Hamas naval targets in Gaza early Wednesday, which it claimed were used to carry out attacks on the Israeli coastline.

The Palestinian Ministry of Interior Affairs said residential areas in the eastern part of Jabalia and the Qizan al-Najjar region of Khan Yunis came under intense airstrikes, with attacks targeting civilians’ homes and roads, resulting in “direct injuries among citizens,” the ministry said.

US President Joe Biden on Tuesday pledged that the US would make sure Israel has the tools needed to defend itself and is surging military assistance to it.

Part of that includes ammunition and interceptors to replenish the Iron Dome anti-missile system. The first supply of US weapons since Hamas’ attack arrived in Israel late Tuesday evening, according to the IDF.

Biden also confirmed that 14 Americans are among the dead and that American citizens are among those held hostage by Hamas. He called the attacks by Hamas “pure, unadulterated evil” that bring “to mind the worst rampages of ISIS.”

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/11/midd...9d9uZ0xp-ewE4CG9UYxwkrnYHXllwig7sOVcsjyU

'No one feels safe': Palestinians in fear as Israeli airstrikes in Gaza kill at least 1,055 people

Hundreds of targets were hit in Gaza by Israel following the attack from Hamas.

Hundreds of targets have been hit in Gaza by Israel following the Saturday incursion from Hamas terrorists, the group that controls the Palestinian territory of Gaza. More than 200 targets were struck in Gaza by Israeli forces in just one day, according to authorities.

In Gaza, at least 1,055 people have died and another 5,186 have been wounded since Saturday, according to the latest numbers from Palestinian officials.

In Israel, at least 1,200 people have been killed and 2,900 others injured.

Palestinians in the Gaza Strip say they are living in fear as Israel retaliates for the actions of the militant terrorist group, with nowhere for them go.

There are no bomb shelters for Palestinians to hide from airstrikes.

An Israeli airstrike hit nearby the Rafah border crossing between Egypt and Gaza on Tuesday for the second time in two days, according to the the interior ministry in Gaza said.

"Gaza is a closed zone. There's nowhere people can evacuate to -- there's no shelters," said Laila El-Haddad, 45, a Palestinian-American living in Maryland whose family is currently in Gaza.

She continued, "The borders are all controlled and shut and the one border bordering Egypt was bombed earlier today. You know, unless they plan to swim out -- but there's a naval blockade -- they really have nowhere to go."

For many, crossing into Israel amid the attacks is not an option.

"Even during normal times, we're not allowed to leave," said Jason Shawa, 55, a Palestinian currently living in Gaza with his wife and two daughters. "Very, very, very few people in Gaza that have permission to leave."

Hundreds of apartments and homes have been destroyed in the Gaza Strip, including refugee camps, leaving more than 123,000 people displaced, according to the United Nations.

More than 73,000 people are sheltering in schools, while hospitals struggle to cope with the numbers of injured.

Shawa lives just miles from the city center where much of the shelling by Israeli forces is occurring. He has taken five other families into his home, which he said is safer than most because his house has a basement to shelter from the airstrikes.

"No one feels safe," said Shawa. "It happens everywhere, anytime. No warnings contrary to what we hear from Israel. My wife and I -- our major concerns are our two daughters ... They're very scared. Very, very scared."

Israel Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said that all food, fuel, electricity, and other necessities will be blocked from entering the Gaza Strip.

"Every single thing we eat, or drink or consume in terms of medicines, food or drink is strictly controlled by the Israeli military," said Shawa. "We have no control over that. So, as a result of their stringent control of Gaza, life has become literally unbearable. In Gaza, conditions are beyond horrible, and we have shortages in everything."

The land, sea and air blockade placed by Israel and Egypt restricts who and what is allowed in and out of the Gaza Strip under Hamas' rule, according to the United Nations.

The longstanding Israeli-Palestinian conflict has been ongoing, spurred by centuries-old disputes over land ownership in the region.

El-Haddad's childhood home in the city-center neighborhood of Remal was leveled Monday by Israeli-force bombings.

Much of her family still lives in Gaza and she was communicating with them to get first-hand accounts of the conflict in Gaza’s densely populated city center.

"Gaza is truly a pressure cooker and people are pushed into a corner," said El-Haddad. "No human being will be able to tolerate such conditions."

She continued, "When you understand the conditions that Palestinians are enduring, one might be left to ask not why this has happened, but why something like this has not happened sooner? And that is not to justify -- the loss of human life in any way, shape, or form is tragic. That is the question people should be asking: How can any human tolerate such conditions?"

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...77rfNnVC3j-iRz7Jo24cwBiSNjRCU667Olm_xAs0

This war is really no different than any other war in one main way. The results of war dictate that those who had nothing to do with starting a war, the civilians living there, pay the biggest price and the highest cost for war. Hamas started it by killing innocent Israeli civilians and Israel is merely continuing down that same path in retribution. While I understand the reasoning in Israel's actions it doesn't change the fact that those who had nothing to do with being a part of this war will pay the ultimate price in the end.

Although, Netanyahu came out publicly Sunday and warned people to get out of Gaza because he was going to reduce it to rubble. He gave the people a warning what was about to happen. If only the Israeli people were given a warning.

Did you bother to read the article? There is no safe way out of Gaza. Israel has closed and blocked the borders. I understand why because they do not wish to allow the members and leaders of Hamas to escape. But that keeps the citizens locked in as well. I think people need to take a more objective look at things and the actual conditions that exist rather than just listening to "what someone said". America citizens can't even get out of Gaza. Israel and Egypt have controlled everything that comes in and out of Gaza for a very long time with the exception of what has been able to be smuggled in.

Palestinian-Americans stuck in Gaza say they feel trapped, abandoned by US Embassy

As bombs rained down on Gaza Monday, Palestinian-Americans visiting or living there said they were desperately trying to find ways out of the region but have received little or no support from US Embassy officials, even though they are US citizens.

They said they were told by the embassy that routes out of the Gaza Strip had been narrowed down to one: A passage though Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, which reportedly had been closed for a period of time Monday because of bombing.

“U.S. citizens in Gaza who wish to leave and can do so safely are advised to check the status of the Rafah Crossing into Egypt,” the US Embassy in Jerusalem said in a security alert on Monday.

Said Shaath, 64, of Fresno, California, who is currently working in the humanitarian sector in Gaza, said embassy officials told one of his cousins to make his way to the Egypt border crossing if he could do so safely.

“I don’t know what ‘safely’ means? We are living in Rimal, it’s very risky to drive all the way to south Rafah terminal,” he said. “This is not secure because along the way there is a chance that you will be targeted,” given the constant barrage of Israeli airstrikes. Under normal circumstances, the drive from Rimal to the Rafah crossing can take up to an hour.

A CNN reporter on the phone with Shaath could hear loud explosions from the bombardment throughout the call.

“My house is shaking. I swear to God the pillars in my house are cracking,” Shaath said.

Lena Beseiso, 57, of Salt Lake City described the terror of being trapped: “It hurts, you jump out of your skin thinking this is the last breath.”

Beseiso – who had not been to Gaza in 12 years – traveled there in late March to visit and spend time with her husband, daughters, niece, and grandson. She too is frustrated by the lack of options given by the US government after repeatedly calling the US Embassy emergency lines to seek help evacuating.

“When we finally got somebody on the phone, we were pleading. (My daughters) were practically crying saying they needed their assistance,” she said. A woman on the line said she could not help them, Beseiso added.

“She just kept saying, ‘Sorry, we were not notified to help you, we were not given any information to assist you,’” Beseiso said. “She kept on telling the girls this emergency line is for Israel.”

CNN’s calls to the US Embassy in Jerusalem Monday evening were directed to the branch office in Tel Aviv. A person who answered there told CNN they were advised not to comment beyond what was published on the embassy website.

“We continue to closely monitor the dynamic security situation,” a State Department spokesperson told CNN, referring US citizens to the department’s website, travel.state.gov, for assistance.

Abdulla Okal, 34, is watching the drama unfold from his family’s home in New Jersey. His wife Haneen and their three young children – ages 8, 2 and 2 months, all of whom are US citizens – are currently stuck in Gaza, he told CNN.

“I don’t know what to do to be honest,” Okal said. “This is the first time my wife and my kids are far from me, and it’s war, it’s a real war.”

Okal said his wife called the US Embassy on Saturday, and they gave her a link to fill out an application form and told her to wait for a call back. She called again Monday after not hearing back, Okal said, and was told that they wouldn’t be able to help her soon but that they would keep her posted.

She hasn’t heard anything else, her husband said.

Okal is desperate and says the thought of his family traveling to the last remaining crossing in Rafah is scary: “It’s really dangerous, you’re going from the north all the way to the south … the routes are bombed, there are huge holes, the cars can’t even drive on it.”

The State Department has long warned Americans against travel to Gaza “due to terrorism, civil unrest, and armed conflict.”

The US government is not “actively considering” emergency evacuation of US citizens in Israel, a spokesperson for the National Security Council told CNN.

In a statement Monday, President Joe Biden said the State Department is providing consular assistance and updated security alerts to keep Americans apprised of the situation as it evolves, but that Americans would need to arrange their own travel plans to leave the country.

“For those who desire to leave, commercial flights and ground options are still available,” Biden said.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/10/us/palestinian-americans-gaza/index.html

Thinking Americans or anyone else can get commercial fights out of Gaza is a pipe dream.

It isn’t the same for Israel as it is Gaza. Hamas (the elected government of Gaza) targets and kills civilians while they hide in hospitals, mosques, and apartments with their weapons. Yes, some innocent people in Gaza are being killed and that’s a shame. They have their own government to blame for it.

The end result comes out the same. We have elections too. The entire population of America is not responsible for the outcome of our elections nor the actions our government takes. I've said all along that I understand why Israel feels the need to do this. That really has nothing to do with the results that is created by those actions. While I'm certainly willing to agree with you, you must also look at the actions of the other side since 1948 and realize that there is a lot of blame to go around throughout that time period. Not this time. This time the creation of this situation rests clearly on the shoulders of Hamas.

I don't think that in any way changes the price that everyday citizens in Gaza will pay in all of this. It certainly was Hamas that was the aggressor. But as I said, this is the price that is paid in every war. It was just as unfair that the civilian population in Germany paid the price for the actions of Hitler. And he was elected too. Hopefully you can see that this isn't about governments or who is right and who is wrong. It's about the victims that didn't have control over what their government did.

Jc

This is the Middle East, folks. Let me remind everyone that terrorist attacks in the Middle East is as common as Americans watching football on Sundays.

Unless there is a third option for leaving Gaza, I believe Egypt has closed their border crossings. That (correct me if I'm wrong) was the only way to get in/out of Gaza. I believe the seaport has been effectively closed by Israel for some time now.

What Israel has been doing over the years is pretty bad, but up until about a week ago is definitely a really weird/bad time to stand on Hamas's side of the argument.

Dirty little secret: none of the surrounding countries like Palestinians and don’t really want to take them in.

At least it now appears they are trying to find a solution to get civilians out of Gaza......

US working with Egyptian, Israeli counterparts to secure safe passage out of Gaza

National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said the U.S. is working with its Israeli and Egyptian counterparts to secure safe passage out of Gaza for civilians.

"Civilians are not to blame for what Hamas has done," Kirby said. "I don't have an announcement to make today -- I can't tell you a specific route or corridor. I just want to make it clear that we are actively working on this with our Egyptian and our Israeli counterparts. Civilians are protected under the laws of armed conflict, and they should be given every opportunity to avoid the fighting."

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...QKiif3cscgldz7vKrn3gbFyK49TGAVbztTei_SGA