DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Netanyahu says Israel is ‘at war’ as Palestinian militants launch surprise air and ground attack from Gaza

You beat me to it. It's pretty remarkable how they will champion the Palestinian causes, only because it furthers the agenda of each neighboring Arabic/Islamic Government, but they in no way want to actually help the Palestinians from a refugee perspective.

I mean, hell, look at Egypt. They closed off the border with Gaza and they are in no way Israeli sympathizers. They do it under the grounds that they fear Hamas would be Iranian-influenced, and they are, but it gives Egypt an easy reason to "not have to deal" with all the Palestinians. Iran sure loves to support Hamas and Hezbollah, but they also love the fact that they aren't close enough to have to deal with refugees directly.

Man, that'll be quite the checkpoint setup if that can be accomplished...I highly doubt Israel will allow any sort of direct passage into its own border.

Yeah, I really can't see Israel allowing a direct border crossing into Israel but I think that's understandable. Egypt would be the most logical choice but that would require Israel to agree not to bomb locations along the route. I have no idea how this will all play out but I'm hoping for the best.

I understand that.

Let's say you won some lottery but it was stipulated it would only cover mortgage payments. OK....cool, everybody would like that. Now the money you used to pay the rent is free to use as you want.

Now Iran can use the money to build schools, feed their people, etc. They are already doing some of that so that money is free to use as they wish.

There are all sorts of ways Iran can get around that. If they were to give Syria a few hundred million to be used for humanitarian purposes. We aren't going to be able to oversee that Syria is using the money the way Iran "intended".

You know that. At any rate, it would be interesting to see how much of that money has already been withdrawn for "humanitarian purposes".

Nothing has been withdrawn yet. It’s been strictly regulated.

https://thehill.com/policy/internat...nt-in-wake-of-hamas-attack-blinken-says/

I guess we have no choice but to take Winken at his word. I say that with seriousness even if i played on Blinkens name.

The inability of people to comprehend that the world is a complex place is distilled and/or conflated to its lowest common denominator in world of social media and memes.

Hamas is a subset of Palestine and a political (now terrorist) approach.

Just as the German people consisted of a Nazi political (terrorist) element and Jewish people, let’s just say all Germans are Nazis. Sure, but you can’t wrap your mind around the thought that there are Germans who are Jewish, so nevermind that small but undeniable fact.

I recognize that I have broken one of the most common accepted principals of political discourse… There is no such thing as a good Nazi analogy or metaphor, but I think it would pass at the most basic level.

So in my mind, I can understand why American blacks can understand and appreciate the plight of the Palestinians. Just don’t assume that all Palestinians are Hamas.

Carry on with your critique of memes that are superficial, but factually flawed.

https://thereload.com/israeli-loosens-gun-carry-rules-after-unprecedented-terror-attack/

Something that has not been talked about much but deserves mentioning is how Israel's strict gun control laws hurt their citizens when attacked by Hamas. They had no way of protecting their selves and their families. On Sunday Israel loosened the restrictions making it easier for their citizens to get guns and protect their selves and families. It is a shame they changed the law a day too late.

That is why the 2nd amendment in our Country is so precious and important. Law abiding citizens must have the ability to protect themselves and their families. When gun laws are restricted only law-abiding citizens are without guns. Criminals like Hamas do not and did not care about the law because they are criminals and used their guns to commit unspeakable crimes against unprotected Israeli people.

We have terror groups in this country. Just look at the BLM group supporting Hamas. Antifa has committed many crimes and murder in our streets. The KKK has committed atrocities in their past. Citizens must have the 2nd amendment, or we are setting ourselves up for a similar fate.

I think it'd be best to stick on topic rather than open up that can of worms on this thread.

BLM is a corrupt organization, and this garbage they posted does nothing to change that. I support and always support the movement. the organization? kiss my mixed ass.

jc

it says a whooole lot that Netanyahu is having a tough time rallying the troops. seeing prominent Israeli's call for his resignation is damning.

also, he better hope the reports of him being warned of the attack from Egyptian intelligence isn't true. cause boy....

It's beginning to look more likely than not.....

Egypt warned Israel days before Hamas struck, US committee chairman says

Israel was warned by Egypt of potential violence three days before Hamas' deadly cross-border raid, a US congressional panel chairman has said.

House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee head Michael McCaul told reporters of the alleged warning.

Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu described the reports as "absolutely false".

Israeli intelligence services are under scrutiny for their failure to prevent the deadliest attack by Palestinian militants in Israel's 75-year history.

"We know that Egypt has warned the Israelis three days prior that an event like this could happen," Mr McCaul told reporters following a closed-door intelligence briefing on Wednesday for lawmakers about the Middle East crisis, according to AFP news agency.

"I don't want to get too much into classified, but a warning was given," the Texas Republican added. "I think the question was at what level."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047

It also appears at least on the surface that Netanyahu realized the people he had in his government were not prepared or qualified enough to handle this situation without bringing some of his opposition on board to help......

Israel's Netanyahu forms unity government with ex-Defense Minister Gantz

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former Defense Minister Benny Gantz agreed on Wednesday to form an emergency unity government as the fighting with Hamas in Gaza continued for a fifth day.

Why it matters: The fact that Gantz, a member of the opposition, is joining the government underscores how big the crisis in Israel is as a result of the deadly Hamas attack.

As a former defense minister, Gantz's role in the new unity government will significantly strengthen the security experience around the decision-making table.
Gantz has for months been gaining more favorability than Netanyahu in the polls, mainly due to the government's controversial judicial overhaul.

Driving the news: Since the Hamas attack on Saturday, Gantz and opposition leader Yair Lapid have called for the formation of a unity government.

While Lapid demanded that the far-right parties be excluded from the security cabinet in the unity government, Gantz's only condition was to form a smaller ministerial committee that would run the war effort.
Netanyahu hesitated for a few days and put forward his own conditions but slowly agreed to move ahead.

Between the lines: According to several reports in the Israeli press, the prime minister's wife Sara Netanyahu objected to the formation of a unity government, which made the move harder.

But after reports about her objections emerged, Sara Netanyahu issued a short statement on her Instagram page on Wednesday calling for a unity government.

State of play: The unity government will only exist until the end of the war in Gaza, according to the agreement between Netanyahu and Gantz.

A new small "war cabinet" will be formed and Gantz, also a former IDF chief of staff, will be a member with Netanyahu and current Defense Minister Yoav Gallant.

Former IDF chief of staff Gadi Eizencot, who is a member of Gantz's party, and current Minister of Strategic Affairs Ron Dermer will also join the war cabinet.

Opposition leader Yair Lapid will also be able to join the government if he chooses to and be a member of the war cabinet.

Netanyahu and Gantz decided that as long as the war is taking place no judicial overhaul legislation will be discussed in the Knesset.

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/11/hamas-israel-war-gantz-netanyahu-unity-government

yikes.

well, going through the history of the region, i dont see why we as Americans can't just blame the British for this crap show. They are the ones most responsible for the all the current border disputes all across the middle east.

We could. We're pretty good at blaming others. But I think we may wish to reflect on the fact there was a lot of pressure being applied to Great Britain for some of the decisions that were made. And a lot of that pressure came from us.

ugh, it's a struggle being the #1 country and responsible for everything.

Well, the priority is trying to save as many hostages as possible, American or not. I'm not gonna pretend like im concerned about the Israeli response to Hamas, however it's clear that at least two things are true:

1. The two-state solution probably went straight out the window, and

2. Netanyahu has to go.

While I have always hoped a two state solution could be reached, the hatred and animosity between the two has always made it seem like an impossibility to me. It's like a married couple that has a long history of cheating and abuse between the two of them trying to patch up a marriage. You just know it's never going to work.

For what I would see as obvious reasons, I believe the Israeli people will always come together in a time of war. Their very survival depends on it. Outside of that I see no possible way that Netanyahu can be a stable leader in Israel.

Agree, especially if McCaul's reports are true. I think he has focused so much energy on trying to make his own self gains, that Netanyahu perhaps neglected to - you know - actually run the place effectively.

It appears to me if this war expands the biggest possibility and threat of it doing so is Hezbollah joining in......

Israel anxiously watches its northern border for warning signs of a wider regional war

Observers within Israel and around the world fear the prospect of Hezbollah entering the conflict

Israel's northern border with Lebanon and Syria represents a potential flashpoint in the conflict that erupted over the weekend — one that experts say bears watching over the next several days because it could be a harbinger of a wider regional war in the Middle East.

One thing is certain: Israel's military is paying close attention to that border.

Early on Wednesday, all of northern Israel was put on full alert after the army reported a suspected "infiltration from Lebanon into Israeli airspace" — a warning that proved to be a false alarm. Sirens screamed across a vast swath near the border with Lebanon and the Israeli army instructed people in the north to stay in shelters until further notice.

So far, the Israeli military has focused primarily on clearing southern Israel of Hamas and striking Hamas targets in the Gaza Strip.

It also has begun solidifying its defences on the northern border with Lebanon. That frontier represents an avenue for a potential second front with Hezbollah — the Iran-backed terrorist group experts are unanimous in describing as better armed and better trained than Hamas.

Six people were killed on Monday (three Hezbollah members, an Israeli officer and two Palestinian militants) in a clash that followed a small incursion across the northern border into Israel — small at least in comparison to the hundreds of Hamas militants who crossed the border from Gaza on the weekend.

On Tuesday, Hezbollah fired a guided anti-tank missile across Israel's northern border, striking an Israeli military vehicle. In response, the Israeli military shelled a Hezbollah observation post in southern Lebanon.

CNN quoted U.S. officials as saying the United States has warned Hezbollah against escalating the conflict. The U.S. has sent a carrier task force led by the USS Gerald Ford to the eastern Mediterranean to deter any efforts to widen the war, multiple U.S. officials and people briefed on the discussions told CNN.

Senior administration officials told CNN they do not believe that Hezbollah is likely to join Hamas's war in force at the moment.

The Washington-based Institute for the Study of War, however, citing open sources, reported that Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and Lebanese Hezbollah units (LH) deployed forces to Syria's southwestern border with Israel on Monday.

Separately, the institute noted that the Radwan Unit, a special Lebanese Hezbollah team focused on infiltrating Israeli territory, also arrived in Syria on Monday and headed for the border region.

The non-profit research group flagged the events as "consistent with the scenario in which the Gaza War expands into a multi-front war surrounding Israel."

Israel has warned Syria about allowing a cross-border incursion, but Hezbollah is supported extensively by the hardline regime in Tehran. Iran has been accused by many, including Canada's United Nations ambassador, of pulling the strings of the Palestinian terror group.

Retired Canadian major-general Denis Thompson said it's tough to predict which way the war is going to go.

"It's quite worrisome," said Thompson, who served as the multinational commander of the international peacekeeping force in the Sinai for three years — a mission that made him intimately familiar with the complexities of the region.

"It would be an order of magnitude more difficult for Israel if Hezbollah enters the war."

A spokesperson for the Israeli Defence Forces, Brig.-Gen. Daniel Hagari, said on Monday that the IDF has not been able to state for certain whether Iran was involved in planning or training for the cross-border attack on Saturday.
Is Hezbollah holding back?

The fact that Hezbollah did not move in concert with Hamas has piqued the curiosity of other foreign policy experts.

"Hezbollah is a highly skilled militant group and it has long sought to support the Palestinian cause," Daniel Byman, a senior fellow at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, wrote in Foreign Policy magazine on Monday.

"Yet fully joining the conflict and opening up a second front in the war against Israel would be a huge risk for Hezbollah. It may simply prefer to watch the Palestinians fight and die while launching limited, symbolic attacks and cheering them on from the sidelines."

Byman added that Hezbollah "has proved to be Israel's most formidable foe since the group's inception in the early 1980s."

Last spring, Israel's defence minister, Yoav Gallant, claimed that Iran spends $700 million US on Hezbollah and $100 million on Hamas.

With Tehran's help, Hezbollah has expanded its arsenal of rockets and missiles that can strike deep into Israel. Hezbollah is also believed to have acquired a range of anti-ship cruise missiles and surface-to-air missiles — weapons that would complicate any potential Israeli operations, the Institute for the Study of War noted.

"Hezbollah is far more formidable than Hamas, whose current operations are already a nightmare for Israel," Byman wrote in Foreign Policy magazine.

"Hezbollah is also more skilled than other militant groups — perhaps the most skilled in the world."

Unlike Hamas, which is confined to a tiny strip of land in Gaza, Hezbollah controls vast portions of southern Lebanon, parts of Beirut and much of Lebanon's Beqaa Valley region. It is also politically active, with a pro-Hezbollah block holding 62 seats in the Lebanese parliament.
Iran fears isolation, former Canadian commander says

And from a wider geopolitical perspective, Thompson said, the stunning Hamas advance into southern Israel and the looming threat of Hezbollah intervention may be an attempt to get the world's attention as other voices in the Arab world inch toward normalizing relations with the Jewish state.

"This is really ... not a last attempt but an attempt to derail that process and get the Palestinian issue front and centre," he said.

Iran, with a different set of interests, has just as much to fear from any easing of tensions between Israel and the rest of the region — especially if its great rival, Saudi Arabia, succeeds in brokering a settlement with Israel.

"They are nervous if a number of Arab states normalize relationships" because it will leave Iran further isolated, Thompson said.

The Institute for the Study of War has noted that there has been a shift in Iranian strategic thinking that the country's leadership has spoken about openly.

For decades, the regime in Tehran has consistently shouted "Death to Israel" but has carefully avoided saying how it would carry it out.

That has changed over the past year, with senior Iranian military commanders emphasizing the importance of ground operations and urban combat, as opposed to missiles and drone strikes. The idea behind this strategy, the institute said, is to create internal displacement and domestic chaos, destabilizing Israel and ultimately leading to its decline.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hamas-israel-hezbollah-iran-saudi-1.6992072

US and Qatar have agreed to stop iran from tapping the 6 bil

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...3289d918e0943bbcdfce940b0ab4226&ei=9

Not only did I hope that this would happen, I expected it to. Good!

While this is technically correct (and I'd usually completely agree), I don't think it's an honest take right now. The Israel/Gaza thing has been a complex issue, but very recently it quickly got a whole lot simpler. Raiding homes, killing babies, etc does a great job of galvanizing opinion.

And yet, despite that, you have these groups (as far as I know) only speaking up now... and when said speaking up includes a picture of a paratrooper in front of 'I stand with Palestine'.... yuck.

I think it depends on what people take that to mean. I've seen many who claim to stand with the side of Palestine plainly explain they mean the Palestinian people. To that extent I stand with them in the hope they don't become victims of a war they had nothing to do with. As you pointed out we already saw that when Hamas committed such atrocities against Israeli citizens.

What I haven't seen is people claiming to stand with Hamas. I'm not saying they aren't out there. We have crazy extremists of all kinds out there. But what I don't believe is that everyone who claims they stand with Palestine means they stand with Hamas. Those are two different things. That's why often times a Tweet or a meme doesn't explain much.

The way it was explained to me by an american muslim who supports Palestine is that they see Hamas as freedom fighters and not terrorists.

and man does that get dicey, because everyone has a side. Revolutionary war, of course we see them as patriots and freedom fighters. The British, however, saw them as terrorist.

Go back, read the memes, with the understanding that Hamas is a political party/philosophy and Palestine is a culture of people who are outcasts in their native land through no choice of their own. I am sure there are a lot of Palestinians that regret their political choices now that Hamas has followed through with their stated intent to destroy Israel. They now have to deal with all the issues of a modern siege.

The next question that will be asked is "How much pain and suffering is Israel going to inflict on Gaza before some other nation steps in or says enough?"

And when someone says "they" it doesn't quite explain things. I'm sure Palestinians who support Hamas see them as "freedom fighters". But just as we do here, they have elections. Not all Palestinians support Hamas and see them as freedom fighters. It's like here in a lot of ways in that regard. Depending on which American you ask, you would get different answers as to who the good guys are and who the bad guys are. Which side they support and which side they don't.

I think one issue that oober was pointing out, that I agree with, is the image of a paratrooper. I don't know this for sure, but I think some people are deducing logically that it infers to the methodology of how the attacks took place a few days ago, albeit paragliders vs paratroopers. Aside from that, why else would there be an image of a paratrooper?

I understand what you're saying in that instance and find that particular case to be disturbing as well. I had hoped that this part of my post would have covered something like that but after rereading it I can see that I didn't explain it as well as I could or should have....


I hope that clears things up.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/wh...i-defense-minister-dangerous-2023-10-12/

What can anybody say anymore about this vomit.

it's all about meeee.

A repulsive human being that should be exiled from the US. Guantanamo Bay should be his crib.

Expect nothing but crickets in response.

For the past 8 years I have wondered what/when will be the the point at which Trump has gone too far...

And he still is the leading presidential candidate for the GOP.

Oh, I don't take issue with what you said. I was speaking more to the BLM-specific response/meme that had the paratrooper in regard to Woofer's point.

With regard to the BLM paratrooper, yes I get it.

It was a pretty ignorant/disgusting thing to have created given the manner in which the attacks occurred.

this could get interesting

I do have sympathy for the innocents in Gaza (and there are a LOT). I just think it's a really weird time to start trying to make that distinction.

There are two sides to every story and sometimes we are in a poor position to understand the long standing issues that underpin the challenges of the conflict.

I will leave it at that simply because the situation is likely to get worse and it would be better to have the bad situation that existed before last Saturday.

Oh that’s right you believe in communism, trump, and Putin before someone selected by Biden. Got it.

I get the Palestinian plight of losing their country to the formation of Israel after WW2. And I’ve often sympathized with them hoping there would be a two state solution. That said, when you decapitate babies, kill old people in their homes, kill kids at a PEACE music festival, and rape, murder, and kill like these people did… you lose all you’re humanity and no longer get to play that card. I can’t stand BB and never was a big Israel supporter, but if an attack and situation EVER justified genocide, it would look like this. Beheading babies…

I’m not calling for all those in GAZA to die, but if I were Israeli, I would feel that in my soul. Radicalized Muslims should be put down like rabid dogs IMO, because they always resort to this kind of vile crap. And they will hide inside the 2 million that lived in the strip, living to breed more radicals and eventually do this again… And if it were Christians beheading babies, I’d feel the same toward them. You just can’t let these people live. Personally, I would want everyone in the strip gone and wouldn’t care if innocents died because of the horrific attack that came from within the population. It’s a helluva situation they are in over there, that’s for sure. BB won’t survive this as a leader, and that’s the only good I can see coming out of it all.