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The disparity between payrolls has been ignored for years now. It's not an equal playing field, nor a legitimate sporting event if certain teams get to spend more money on players than other teams do. A simple analogy would be "Suppose we are going to have a race. I get $100,000 to buy a car and you get $33.00 to buy a car. I buy a muscled-up Mustang, and you get a 1990 Ford Crown Victoria. -How absurd does this seem? Well, that is what has been going on in baseball for years now. Why has baseball turned a blind eye towards it?
Now the Mitchell report comes out. We have learned that several players who have influenced baseball's on-field history over the last several years have been taking performance enhancing drugs. -Is it an issue? Well, the only way it isn't an issue is if every team had the same amount of players taking the same amount of drugs, otherwise the last several years of baseball history have been invalid and should discarded from the record books.
Personally, I am through with baseball. Until the league imposes a salary cap, and until the players have to gain strength and mass just like everybody else, I'm done. No more going to games, no more watching on tv, and no more caring about a league that has made a complete mockery of its integrity.
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Legend
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Legend
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Well, you asked the question, I'll give my answers.
First, if we're racing and you have a "muscled up" mustang and I get a crown vic, I gurantee, when the flag drops, I'm ramming your mustang into the guardrail - instantly.
Secondly, as far as baseball.................uh, what was that again? The "great american pasttime" is so far past its time it's unbelievable.
I tried, really, really tried, to care about the Mitchell report, or about asterisks,,,,,,,,,,even about baseball. Know what? I could not care less about that sport. If they didn't play baseball for the next 50 years I'd actually be happy.
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Dawg Talker
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Baseball is my sport, I follow it obsessively. With that being said, its quite obviously flawed. I won't even argue about it, because there is no way to argue it without looking like a fool. But, I love watching the game. Its not just ability, its also the thought, knowing where to be, the smart play, arguing over the merits of a sacrifice bunt, etc. Baseball holds a special place for me that no other can come close to. I don't know if its just that I relate better to it, if its because my grandfather took me to games so frequently growing up, or what, but I'm on a countdown to spring training.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
The disparity between payrolls has been ignored for years now. It's not an equal playing field, nor a legitimate sporting event if certain teams get to spend more money on players than other teams do. A simple analogy would be "Suppose we are going to have a race. I get $100,000 to buy a car and you get $33.00 to buy a car. I buy a muscled-up Mustang, and you get a 1990 Ford Crown Victoria. -How absurd does this seem? Well, that is what has been going on in baseball for years now. Why has baseball turned a blind eye towards it?
Now the Mitchell report comes out. We have learned that several players who have influenced baseball's on-field history over the last several years have been taking performance enhancing drugs. -Is it an issue? Well, the only way it isn't an issue is if every team had the same amount of players taking the same amount of drugs, otherwise the last several years of baseball history have been invalid and should discarded from the record books.
Personally, I am through with baseball. Until the league imposes a salary cap, and until the players have to gain strength and mass just like everybody else, I'm done. No more going to games, no more watching on tv, and no more caring about a league that has made a complete mockery of its integrity.
i disagree with a lot of what you said...
for one, baseball does have a salary cap, you're just allowed to go over the cap, just like in basketball, you have to pay a luxury tax...
and i understand what you mean about teams spending huge amounts of money, but honestly, how many titles have the yankees won since their payroll went up to a bloated 200m? the answer? none.
what about toronto the past few years shelling out big bucks for free agents only to not even make the playoffs? the same goes for the orioles, the cubs throw money at anyone and haven't been a threat since God knows when..
the 2002 angels won on a modest 60m payroll, the 2003 marlins won with a 53m payroll, the 2005 white sox won on a 70m payroll, the 2006 cardinals won with an 84 million dollar payroll
the yankees last world series which was 2001, was won on a 112m dollar payroll, big, but not ridiculous... their 1996 team won on a 52m payroll (the tribe, during that time had a 45m payroll, not that big of a difference)
a lot of the big spending has to do with cable tv deals, and big markets, and all of that, but a lot of it has to do with cheap owners, the kansas city royals are actually one of the biggest profiting teams in major league baseball, they choose not to spend their money... they could easily give a little and keep some guys around, they don't
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Legend
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Legend
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Spoken like a true Yankees fan 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
for one, baseball does have a salary cap, you're just allowed to go over the cap, just like in basketball, you have to pay a luxury tax...
The luxury tax for next year will be set at $155 million, how many teams does that really effect, and how much of an effect does it really have on those teams because of the disparity in their media incomes? None. It was a tax that was put in to appease the people calling for a salary cap and does nothing. In three years its going to be $178 million! This when only seven teams even topped the $100 million mark in salaries. The only thing that they got right in this was an increasing percentage tax for each year you are over the tax threshold. Still, its a complete joke.
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and i understand what you mean about teams spending huge amounts of money, but honestly, how many titles have the yankees won since their payroll went up to a bloated 200m? the answer? none.
I dispise this argument. How many times have the Yankees and Red Sox made the postseason with their payrolls this high? Compared to the other teams in that division? It would be HORRIBLE to be an Orioles, Blue Jays or Rays fan because you stand no chance of making the playoffs, no matter how well your organization is run, because if the Yanks or Sawx are losing at the deadline, they'll just go add a Santana. As an Indians fan, there is still hope because the Tigers spend a lot, but not as much as those teams, and the White Sox carry a high payroll, but significantly less than those teams. Basically, you have three teams that cannot make the playoffs in the AL, and nine others fighting for two spots. That's great...
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what about toronto the past few years shelling out big bucks for free agents only to not even make the playoffs? the same goes for the orioles, the cubs throw money at anyone and haven't been a threat since God knows when..
the 2002 angels won on a modest 60m payroll, the 2003 marlins won with a 53m payroll, the 2005 white sox won on a 70m payroll, the 2006 cardinals won with an 84 million dollar payroll
the yankees last world series which was 2001, was won on a 112m dollar payroll, big, but not ridiculous... their 1996 team won on a 52m payroll (the tribe, during that time had a 45m payroll, not that big of a difference)
I agree, money is not the end-all in baseball. However, it really helps. You can't afford to make mistakes and still compete at the payroll of these other teams. Toronto spent, made mistakes, and their next chance to compete, if they are willing to go back up to $100 million, will be in 3-4 years. New York can eat contracts of Carl Pavano and Jaret Wright and not think twice about it. If the Indians, Athletics, or Twins do that, they are done for at least three seasons. That is the difference.
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a lot of the big spending has to do with cable tv deals, and big markets, and all of that, but a lot of it has to do with cheap owners, the kansas city royals are actually one of the biggest profiting teams in major league baseball, they choose not to spend their money... they could easily give a little and keep some guys around, they don't
I look forward to the day where you have the Yanks/Sawx and 28 Jeffrey Lorias. He's hurting the system as much as the Yanks/Sawx, and while he isn't doing it to make a point, he's helping just the same. The Marlins payroll this year will be at or around $8 million. How many Yankees will top that figure? (A-Rod, Jeter, Giambi, Posada, Abreu, Damon, Rivera, Mussina, Pettite, Matsui, and Pavano off the top of my head). Why should Kansas City spend money? They are actually rebuilding their farm system a little and working toward a year when it makes sense to spend. See, not every team can just re-stock when they run out of talent, there are some teams that have to go through the draft and wait for talent to develop. When those teams are doing that, guess what happens. They sell off their good players at the major league level to the Yanks and Sawx.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Baseball needs a salary cap but will never get one, as long as people keep coming. The only way baseball will get cleaned up or straightened out is if people stop coming.
That isn't going to happen any time soon.
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Legend
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i understand what you guys are saying, but money is not the end-all....
the indians didn't blow the boston series because boston had the bigger payroll, they blew that series because they couldn't finish the job with a 3-1 lead and 2 cy young candidates waiting in the wings...
and i know it sucks for oriole and blue jay fans, because they are in the division with the yanks, and they have to play each team around 18 times, but the fact of the matter is, baltimore and toronto's struggles have more to do with their horrible management then they do with the yankees and red sox spending money
remember about 10 years or so ago, when baltimore went out and dropped all kinds of money on players, and completely flopped? in my opinion, they still haven't recovered from that, they have had a ton of bad contracts on their team, the same goes for toronto... they dropped way too much money on aj burnett, if they built the team better around their own guys, like halladay, like rios, and not so much on burnett, and bj ryan, maybe they'd have a chance...
as far as the devil rays go, they don't even try, and it's sad, because if they just spent a little bit of money, they'd be competitive, they have a ton of talent, they have 2 good young pitchers, they have speed, hitting, a little bit of power...
a hard cap in baseball will never happen, and the idiots will blame selig, selig is nothing but a figurehead for the owners and the players' union, those are the guys we should all be mad at, i hate the spending as much as anyone else, but that's how it will always be, and it hurts the most to the folks paying to get in at the gate
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Quote:
the indians didn't blow the boston series because boston had the bigger payroll, they blew that series because they couldn't finish the job with a 3-1 lead and 2 cy young candidates waiting in the wings...
I'd argue, begrudgingly, that the better team won that series, although in an unusual way. I'd also argue that the team that was able to rob the Marlins benefited because they were unable to pay the salaries that players were demanding.
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and i know it sucks for oriole and blue jay fans, because they are in the division with the yanks, and they have to play each team around 18 times, but the fact of the matter is, baltimore and toronto's struggles have more to do with their horrible management then they do with the yankees and red sox spending money
Toronto is actually relatively well managed. Riccardi made some mistakes when he first started, trying to make too big of splash that went against the fundamentals upon which he was hired. Since that point, he's made some decent moves, drafted pretty solidly and is trying to build a team the right way to see if he can compete in that division, somehow. Baltimore is a mess because of their owner, pure and simple, but the system they play in doesn't help. Tampa has the best chance of being something. They have young talent that will get to mature together (Upton, Crawford, Longoria, Baldelli), they've got some leadership (Floyd, Iwamura, Pena) and most importantly, they've got young pitching (Shields, Kazmir and Garza are phenomenal). They aren't spending a lot, because it doesn't make sense for them to. There is more than enough talent in Toronto and now Tampa that if they were in the NL West or NL Central, they'd compete for the title. That, however, gets hidden because of the system that they have to play in.
Here's a dirty little secret, if the Yanks were on a payscale with the rest of baseball, they'd be the Cubs. They spend on hitting, nonstop, when pitching is what actually wins in the playoffs. Sure, they'd probably compete for a division title in a weak year, but not anywhere near what they do right now. This, honestly, is what scares the heck out of me with the Red Sox. They can spend like there is no tomorrow, but they also have a very good talent development system. I'm not sure how many teams over the next five years are going to be able to compete with that team, let alone if they add Santana as well.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Legend
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Legend
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I like baseball. People use the "how many championships have the Yankees won" as an argument why a salary cap isn't necessary... I disagree. The Yankees and Sox may not win it every year, but they are in the playoffs every year. I will say though, the one problem I see in addition to the teams that spend way too much, is the teams that spend way too little. Even if they did put in a realistic salary cap, a bunch of teams would still be so far below it that they couldn't be competitive.
As for the Mitchell report, the one reason a lot of people don't care, is because it didn't contain a whole lot of new information. Everybody knew it was coming, everybody expected some big names in it... so it's not a big deal. If the NFL dropped a report tomorrow naming 50 players who were on roids, it would be a big deal....
I especially like the league office saying that the Mitchell report will be taken seriously and changes will be made... there isn't a single thing in that report that the league office didn't already know with the possible exception of some actual names.... The league has just chosen to ignore it, just like the need for a salary cap, because people are still going to the games and attendance is growing.
The problem with baseball, as I see it, is the media's infatuation with 2 or 3 teams at the exclusion of all others... that's why the ratings suck at the end because if at least 1 of those highly touted teams isn't playing, nobody cares except the hometown fans. Do you know why nobody wants to watch the Dbacks and the Rockies in the playoffs? Because nobody can name 2 players from either team because they are NEVER on national television... The average fan can tell you darn near the entire roster of the Yankees and Red Sox, along with their salaries but can't name 2 players from the rest of the playoff teams... If the media would start treating the league like it had more than 3 teams, it would generate more interest in the long run.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
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great post, dc...
espn has completely ruined what yankees/red sox is...
it's an awesome baseball rivalry, but if you stick it up against any college football rivalry, and even some nfl rivalries, it doesn't compare, although espn sure doesn't want you to believe that...
but as far as baseball goes, it's always great drama, on and off the field, but they've just fed us too much of it...
it's not just yankees/red sox, it seems like it's all the big markets...
i also think fox has done a number to baseball as well, they are the ones responsible for the absence of day baseball on saturdays around the league, as well as making the all star game a joke by giving home field advantage to the league that wins, i really can't wait until fox's deal is up
oh, and i didn't even mention we have to listen to joe buck and tim mccarver during the playoffs...
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Quote:
The problem with baseball, as I see it, is the media's infatuation with 2 or 3 teams at the exclusion of all others... that's why the ratings suck at the end because if at least 1 of those highly touted teams isn't playing, nobody cares except the hometown fans. Do you know why nobody wants to watch the Dbacks and the Rockies in the playoffs? Because nobody can name 2 players from either team because they are NEVER on national television... The average fan can tell you darn near the entire roster of the Yankees and Red Sox, along with their salaries but can't name 2 players from the rest of the playoff teams... If the media would start treating the league like it had more than 3 teams, it would generate more interest in the long run.
THANK YOU! EXACTLY MY THOUGHTS!
I'll even add in that it's a never-ending cycle with media coverage and salaries/stars for Yankees/Sox.
Think about it...national media consistently covers Yankees/Sox, Yankees/Sox fanbases grow nationwide because of it, thus giving them more revenue to spend on stars, causing more media coverage, more fans and more money to those teams to spend on big stars which will cause more media coverage and a bigger national fanbase and....
I think you see where I'm going with this...it's never ending cycle and the only way to stop it is if the media treated MLB like the NFL, ESPN most specifically.
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
espn has completely ruined what yankees/red sox is...
it's an awesome baseball rivalry, but if you stick it up against any college football rivalry, and even some nfl rivalries, it doesn't compare, although espn sure doesn't want you to believe that...
Exactly.. take OSU/Michigan football, Duke/Carolina basketball, etc... the college football rivalries meet once a year usually... Duke and Carolina, twice a year, maybe 3 if they meet in the ACC tournament, and on a very rare occassion, they could meet 4 times... I'm not sure if it's ever happened or not.... The Yankees and the Red Sox play each other 19 freakin' times a year and that's just in the regular season... maybe 7 more times if they meet in the playoffs... there is absolutely NO REASON that all 19 of those games have to be on television when there are other good games going on at the same time. It's old.
I still stand by my comments that this was never more evident than last year (later in the season) when the media was making a huge deal out of the fact that the Yankees and Sox were on and the Yankees had cut the lead to 9 1/2 games... meanwhile, the game not being televised was the Indians and Tigers, two teams who were within a game of each other much of the season.. and it barely got mentioned. Sure, call me a homer if you like but you know what, if it was the A's and Angels or Cardinals and Cubs, I would feel exactly the same... I just noticed it more because it was the Indians.
MLB and it's broadcasters have hitched its wagon almost exclusively to the Yankees and Red Sox and they may very well pay for it... take any other sport and it's not like that. The Patriots could drop off the map this year and you'd still have the Packers, Colts, Cowboys, Steelers, Chargers, Giants, even the Browns, Jags, and Vikings who all have enough players with name recognition that the NFL wouldn't miss a beat.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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I donno DC. It's probably because either the Jets or the Patriots have been bad for decades, that there's no real friction there yet. Just wait though. ESPN had blown "Cameragate" all out of proportion. It might be just a matter of time before those are the only two teams in the NFL.  Problem ESPN sits directly in the middle of two big media markets, so they are full of homers and whenever they show anything Boston/New York, it's going to get SOME ratings, so they use that to keep justifying the over-coverage.
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You guys do know that Executive Producers get paid a lot of money to oversee meetings at ESPN, etc trying to figure out how to increase viewership and revenue. They do not care about the game, the sport....they simply care about share and revenue.
When ESPN had hockey...how often did you see them talking about the sport. Now that Versus? has hockey it might as well have been cricket or soccer.
The almighty greenback drives all of these decisions. The big markets get featured because that's where the viewership lives. It is what it is.
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Dawg Talker
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Personally, I am through with baseball. Until the league imposes a salary cap, and until the players have to gain strength and mass just like everybody else, I'm done. No more going to games, no more watching on tv, and no more caring about a league that has made a complete mockery of its integrity.
No more posting threads about it?
...always have been, always will be...
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Quote:
Quote:
Personally, I am through with baseball. Until the league imposes a salary cap, and until the players have to gain strength and mass just like everybody else, I'm done. No more going to games, no more watching on tv, and no more caring about a league that has made a complete mockery of its integrity.
No more posting threads about it?
Nothing like showing how much you dont care about something by starting a thread telling people how you no longer care.
Eat it Phil...
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
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Personally, I am through with baseball. Until the league imposes a salary cap, and until the players have to gain strength and mass just like everybody else, I'm done. No more going to games, no more watching on tv, and no more caring about a league that has made a complete mockery of its integrity.
No more posting threads about it?
Nothing like showing how much you dont care about something by starting a thread telling people how you no longer care.
I am done posting in threads about people being done with stuff.
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
Quote:
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Personally, I am through with baseball. Until the league imposes a salary cap, and until the players have to gain strength and mass just like everybody else, I'm done. No more going to games, no more watching on tv, and no more caring about a league that has made a complete mockery of its integrity.
No more posting threads about it?
Nothing like showing how much you dont care about something by starting a thread telling people how you no longer care.
I am done posting in threads about people being done with stuff.
I've had enough responding to people who are done with threads in which people are done with stuff.
...always have been, always will be...
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The Yankees Sox Rivarly Is Junk
The Indians Have a Better and LONGER Rivarly with the yankees Then the sox do
The Media only hyped it when they started spending money and getting decent
and now they are new york 2.o
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Dawg Talker
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Quote:
The Yankees Sox Rivarly Is Junk
The Indians Have a Better and LONGER Rivarly with the yankees Then the sox do
LMAO  You really believe that? The Tribe isn't even the same division with them anymore.
...always have been, always will be...
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
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The Yankees Sox Rivarly Is Junk
The Indians Have a Better and LONGER Rivarly with the yankees Then the sox do
LMAO You really believe that? The Tribe isn't even the same division with them anymore.
Poor old Tribe. 
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I Believe It totally
the red sox yankees rivarly was no where to be found until the 01 season
Like I said, that rivarly is junk
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LMAO You really believe that? The Tribe isn't even the same division with them anymore.
so you mean to tell me, that a rivarly for the last 6 years is far better then the ones the indians have had with that team for pretty much its whole lifetime?
who cares if they arent in the same division anymore.
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Do you have any understanding of Major League Baseball's history?
...always have been, always will be...
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Dawg Talker
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who cares if they arent in the same division anymore.
For one thing, they don't play each other 19 times per season and they aren't vying for the same division. As for it only being 6 years, you really are quite uninformed. Please learn something.
...always have been, always will be...
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Legend
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Legend
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I'm so done with people who say they are done with posting in threads where people are done with stuff and then continue to post like they're not done with it at all.
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
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I'm done posting in threads that I say I'm done with.
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Legend
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Legend
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I done.
Pass the charmin and hold your nose.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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